A retiree in Altoona, PA says that his bank told him he could spend the $280,276.76 that was mysteriously deposited in his account. He knew it wasn’t his, but the bank assured him that everything was in order and he was free to start spending.
From the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review:
His checking account with First Commonwealth Bank showed an Oct. 23 deposit of $280,276.76. The Altoona retiree said he knew the staggering amount of money didn’t belong to him, or to his wife, Becky, so he called the bank — several times — to report the mistake, his attorney said.
Starbird’s attorney said the bank assured his client more than once that everything was in order, that the deposit was accurate, that all was OK with his account. So, Starbird and his wife began to spend their unexpected windfall, thinking that an anonymous benefactor had given them an awesome gift of free money.
Yeah, not quite. Now the bank is suing Herbert Starbird, claiming that he never contacted the bank. By the time the bank noticed the error, Mr. Starbird and his wife had spent $163,330.37. The bank recovered $102,935.48 that remained in Starbird’s checking account and took $14,010.91 from his savings account, according to the lawsuit. Starbird’s lawyer says that his client has been trying to pay the bank back, but doesn’t want to mortgage his house to do it and would like an interest free payment plan. The Tribune-Review says that the lawsuit shows Starbird has made two payments so far: $624.25, and $5,500.
Couple say they began spending after bank’s OK [Pittsburgh Tribune-Review] (Thanks, Justin!)
(Photo: This Year’s Love )
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For the record, he “claims” that he contacted a bank first, but I doubt it very much. As a couple others have pointed out, just about any employee aside from a janitor or security guard would take it very seriously if they received a complaint that there was money deposited in somebody’s account by accident.
I would have closed my account, got a cashiers check and headed for the hills.
@headhot: I’d go with ya on that one.
@wgrune: [i]Would you run someone over with your car if a cop told you it was ok? [/i]
After getting it in writing, yes.
@shades_of_blue: By government law, all business phone conversations much be recorded and archived for a two year period.
Cite?
Even call centers and such that do record occasional calls for quality purposes don’t necessarily do it for all of them. And the reason they have that recording telling you their doing it is because the law tells them they have to let you know before they record, not because the law tells them they have to record.
I wonder if you’re thinking of trading floor transactions and similar? Some financial companies do have to record all their calls.
@Pro-Pain
I would have deposited it into an interest-bearing account for a few years until the coast was clear. If the bank came looking for it again, I could just give them back the money that was wrongly deposited and kept the interest.
As improbable as the story sounds, it’s not all that unlikely.
I know this because my friend got $80,000 deposited into his bank account at BofA. He called the bank and told them to take it out, they said they’d look into it. 2 weeks later, it was still there, he called again. At this point, he just wanted it taken out. He didn’t know the origin, and what if it was connected to drugs or something else? They told him the money was HIS, and that “everything was in order.”
I told him to transfer it to a high interest account until they asked for it back, so he could at least make some money off it. 4 days later, they took it out.
Moral of the story is, there’s a good chance this guy is telling the truth, but he was stupid to spend the money.
@headhot: if you get caught laundering money, you’re not going to white-collar, resort prison. No, no, no. You’re going to federal pound me in the ass prison.
Is this guy an idiot? Even if the bank told him to spend the money, he’s pretty dumb. And if they did, indeed, tell him he could spend it, then he shouldn’t owe them a dime.
If a large amount of money appeared in your account, wouldn’t you owe income taxes on that? How do you report that on your 1040 anyways? Do you have to pay it as estimated taxes quarterly? Then what happens when the bank wants it’s money back — do you get your taxes back from the government?
@jnews: Except as otherwise specified, the IRS doesn’t care how you got your money, so long as you pay taxes on it. You see, in America, even ill-gotten gains are taxable.
A smaller version of this happened to me last month I got a statement
from one of my brokers saying I had mad a $5000 deposit that I hadn’t
(The account had a zero balance because its just a clearing account for
my stock options) I called them and told them that I made no such
deposit and asked them to investigate possible fraud or a data entry
error. They said they would call me with in 48 hours. Guess what no
call. Called back two weeks later the money is gone but an a few
bucks richer in the interest it accursed while it was in there. O well
one more line my my tax return..
I ended up with a windfall in my bank account, maybe around 1000 which is a lot when you’re a broke grad student. I tried calling the toll-free number, but the CSR couldn’t look back further than 60 days. Since this is an account based in my home state, I barely use it and never check the statements. When I did get in touch with someone at the branch, they were perplexed as to how it got into my account. They repossessed the money. The least they could have done was given me a 10% finders fee.
@jnews: A person would not owe taxes on the money unless it came from a taxable source: income, inheritence, winnings, etc.
Let’s say hypothetically, I gave you $260K knowingly and willingly. You wouldn’t owe taxes on that money.
He should be fine. The bank is claiming he never even made phone calls. Phone records should prove the bank wrong and therefore make his statement that the bank repeatedly said the money was his to spend very credible. The simple fact that the bank did not care to protect themselves from a huge money transfer that the recipient even told them made no sense, should mean the bank deserves to lose the money. He should sue to get the money they stole from his saving account back. And the bank needs to figure out who incorrectly sent the money into his account and who said it was ok to spend. Then they can go after those people for the missing money.
I’ve heard of this happening in the past with other people. And people always call the bank asking them if it is their money and the bank says yes. That’s such a dumb question to ask because the bank is going off the assumption that it’s in your account, so it’s your money. Ask them who deposited it and when, not whether or not it’s yours.
What do banks do with all those stupid little forms I have to fill out when I deposit money? And if this is made electronically, I find it hard to believe that there wouldn’t be a law that requires the bank to keep EFT records and from whence they came. Isn’t that part of the Patriot Act?
@headhot: agreed.
@heavylee-again: I’m pretty sure I would owe taxes on that. It’s income. It’d be akin to winning a prize. There are to my knowledge, however, a set amount of money you may give to a person that will not be taxed, but I think it only works for spouses and kids and there’s a limit on it that’s less than $100k
I know it’s wrong for him to keep the money – I know it and I don’t care. For all the times the banks screw over the little guy. It warms my heart to know that someone went on a shopping spree… Course, knowing the bank, it’s probably just coming out of some other poor sod’s account, so my glee is dampened.*sigh*
@MoCo: I doubt its a mistake in the bank’s books. Banks are just clearing houses when it comes to ACH transactions. Most likely, the error was triggered by another customer. I’d love to know the explanation.
If someone deposited that kind of money in my account, Id assume its an error, and behave accordingly.
If I cant trust a bank teller to tell me how much money I usually have without giving me 3 different numbers, how could they be trusted to tell me a random 100K in my account is actually mine?
Verbal agreements FTL.
@heavylee-again:
The friend that you gave the money to would owe taxes on it. The question is, how would the IRS know that they received the money if you didn’t report giving it to them? If you didn’t report the gift on your tax return to reduce the amount of taxes you owe then they would be less likely to find the transaction, but they could depending on what your friend did with the money.
@moore850: burden of proof is on the accuser. that’s kind of how the legal system in america works.
This scenario is similar to the Craig’s list scenario where someone will post an ad telling people to come to their home and take everything they see because they are leaving and can’t take anything with them. Of course greedy people will deny there is anything fishy about this and will arrive at the address and loot everything they can carry with no guilt (even when the rightful owner is telling the looters he never placed an ad on Craig’s list)
@bonzombiekitty: I believe it’s $12,000 a year for tax free gifts, up to $1MM lifetime. This applies to anyone, not specifically family.
The auto analogy somewhere above is the best. No matter what the valet says, the Porche he’s trying to give you will not be yours if you drove a Kia to dinner.
That said, when an error like this results, I’d immediately move all of my money from that bank to another, keeping any minimums in place to keep accounts open. I have actually done this, though a sum much less. I move the money to a new bank and waited until I was contacted. Though I eventually worked it out without too much effort, I retained control of funds the entire time. That’s the goal.
@The Master of Reason: @thesabre: I have heard the the process of recording “found” or extra money is much much harder than losing it. I had a boss who got an extra 20 from the ATM machine and tried to return it. They refused to take it and the teller told him it was a mountain of paperwork to take in money that doesn’t “belong” to an account b/c of regulations and reporting.
i still can’t believe this clown did’nt record every damn phone conversation between himself and the bank.
So… where did the money come from?
@Jacquilynne:
Cite? There’s nothing to cite, I know it for fact. My work is required to record and archive all email and phone conversations. They must be archived for a total of two years. If said information is written over or never recorded a business can face hefty fines.
Granted I do work for a company which deals with the government, so it naturally has to abide to a higher guideline then most, I still know all businesses are required to archive email/phone conversations. New guidelines introduced last year require it, for all businesses.
Didn’t you ever wonder why your cellular provider makes mention of the ability to ‘recover’ deleted voice mail? They are not doing that as a ‘convince’, I can assure you that.
I myself made Wachovia check their recorded conversations after an issue with paying off the remainder of my auto loan. The stupid shit who I spoke to over the phone must have tried to cut-n-paste account numbers to save time because he had my money sent to someone else’s account. They tried to tell me that it was my fault, but I called them out and then they checked the archives. Sure enough, I was right and they promptly fixed the problem.
Now, if they would have fucked with me on that I would have sued them for punitive damages. Also, I would have slammed them publicly on any media type which would hear my story.
Lastly, the bank is FDIC insured for events like this. If the bank fucked up, it’s their loss and the insurance company eats it. Not the bank or the guy who sent a ¼ mill to the wrong account. Well, actually the guy who sent it could be held accountable because he waited longer than 30 days to report an issue with his transfer. It’d be like the ‘in the event of credit card theft we are only required to refund the full amount if reported within 48 hours’ clause.
Cite? There’s nothing to cite, I know it for fact. My work is required to record and archive all email and phone conversations. They must be archived for a total of two years. If said information is written over or never recorded a business can face hefty fines.
Granted I do work for a company which deals with the government, so it naturally has to abide to a higher guideline then most, I still know all businesses are required to archive email/phone conversations. New guidelines introduced last year require it, for all businesses.
Didn’t you ever wonder why your cellular provider makes mention of the ability to ‘recover’ deleted voice mail? They are not doing that as a ‘convince’, I can assure you that.
I myself made Wachovia check their recorded conversations after an issue with paying off the remainder of my auto loan. The stupid shit who I spoke to over the phone must have tried to cut-n-paste account numbers to save time because he had my money sent to someone else’s account. They tried to tell me that it was my fault, but I called them out and then they checked the archives. Sure enough, I was right and they promptly fixed the problem.
Now, if they would have fucked with me on that I would have sued them for punitive damages. Also, I would have slammed them publicly on any media type which would hear my story.
Lastly, the bank is FDIC insured for events like this. If the bank fucked up, it’s their loss and the insurance company eats it. Not the bank or the guy who sent a ¼ mill to the wrong account. Well, actually the guy who sent it could be held accountable because he waited longer than 30 days to report an issue with his transfer. It’d be like the ‘in the event of credit card theft we are only required to refund the full amount if reported within 48 hours’ clause.
If that happened to me, I’d make a big scene in the middle of the bank while it’s crowded about how they are so poor at managing money they accidentally put funds into my account.
Maybe even make video and put it on YouTube, why not?
If they want me to stop publicizing their mistakes? They’ve got to make it worth it. Fix the mistake, public apology, and maybe even some real free checking for life for starters. An an executive contact for any complaints I ever have so I don’t have to deal with a CSR.
I agree that it is the bank’s own fault, however, it was beyond retarded to only take them at their verbal word before he started spending it. A sum of money that large you don’t just take somebody on their word, you get something in writing, signed by a manager or something. Then you talk to a lawyer about it and possibly withdraw it from your bank and deposit it in another bank. You don’t just say, “oh well okay” and start spending a hundred thousand right off the bat. That’s just asking for trouble.
@wgrune: Would you run someone over with your car if a cop told you it was ok?
That depends. Is the guy I’m supposed to run over a lawyer?
@shades_of_blue: Um, you’re wrong. I can certainly believe that some businesses are under special rules that require the recording of phone calls. But there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of small businesses (for a few dozen of which I have done IT work) that do NOT record ANY phone calls. They are not breaking any kind of law.
If you think I’m wrong, cite the law to which you refer.
You’re a fool if you’d just blindly accept a random person giving you a car without asking for some sort of explanation from a primary party.
@bonzombiekitty: No explanation = stolen car
I don’t understand the anonymous deposit explanation. How does that even make sense? Even if I wanted to shove money into a stranger’s bank account wouldn’t I need an account number to do that?
This example proves that even if you document your attempts to notify the bank of their mistake, you’ll still get charged with Grand Larceny:
[consumerist.com]
[gothamist.com]
I’d like to know why these people didn’t get a high profile attorney with some of that loot? After all, sooner or later they’re going to need representation, so why end up with a public defender?
A friend swears by her bank, has had the same account for years, despite the fact that on two separate occasions that I know of small amounts of money have mysteriously appeared in her account. Both times, the money wasn’t pulled back out and she spent it. Same deal, the bank said they could see no problem. I’d chalk it up to user error except for the fact that she keeps meticulous books. I told her if I were her, I’d change banks but she doesn’t see a problem. sigh. My thinking is, the money has to belong to someone and who’s to say one day it won’t be her account that takes the hit?
If I’d been the guy, no way would I have touched a dime. Ain’t nothing in life for free.
Yeah even if the bank did blow him off, if it’s not yours, it’s somebody else’s, and an amount like 280G’s, somebody’s bound to figure it out eventually.
I have a hard time believing he really told the bank about this. If I went into the bank and told them there was “no way I deposited that much, nor do I know anybody who would, and even if I did, I’ve never given out my account number.” and then said “It must have been mistakenly deposited there and really belong to somebody else.” Then even if they said it was yours, I’d have the bank manager put it in writing. But I doubt the op presented to them in this manor.
@ChipMcDougal: Um. No. Stfu.
@shades_of_blue:
The internet, ladies and gentlemen!
I’m all for moving the money into another account and collecting the interest. That’s a whole buncha interest, yo. But spending it? Um, yeah I have to say, “No.” That’s just asking to spend your golden years in the klink.
I just love how people are automatically blaming the old guy. If the bank had made a mistake and removed money from his account, he’d have had to go through hoops to prove they made a mistake.
I’m not saying the guy should have spent the money, but he should have moved it to another bank first, especially since they whacked his savings account too.
For situations like this, there really should be a third party that the parties could contact before anything happens, without involving the courts. As it is, the bank has all the cards.
I dont get this….. if someone deposits money into my account…. is it then not my money?
I love these stories about how the bank fucks up & then sues the customer.
IMO if a bank makes a disasterous mistake by accidentally depositing an obscenely large amount of money in someone’s account & the customer takes it…. then the bank is out the money for their own mistake.
@forgottenpassword: Agreed. If making a transaction of over $10,000 requires a shitload of paperwork, shouldn’t it take a lot more to move 280,000?
@forgottenpassword: No, it’s not your money if it was destined for somewhere else. That is someone else’s money. A bank fuck up does not magically make the money yours.
Again, if the attendant at a parking garage brings you a car that is 10 times more expensive than your actual car, it’s still not your car no matter how much he may insist that it is yours.
@rmz: “The internet, ladies and gentlemen!”
If that was a slam at me, it was pretty lame.
@Dont Know Me? You Are Me.:
Apparently my knowledge of the Discovery Act is rusty. It’s only data aka email which is required to be archived for two years. [Verified by my boss earlier today, when I told him about this banking cluster fuck.]
Still, it does not matter because a large bank will [realistically] record conversations in an attempt to cover their asses. And if you read my whole reply you’d note that I have personal experience where they used those recorded conversations to correct an error.
I got $1300 from a bank error (Debit processing error, Walmart (Sam’s Club) was the looser). I actually returned the product and got a cash refund on the portion paid via debit. The other half of the purchase was on a check and they put it on a gift card with the assurance that I could redeem it for cash after 10 days.
I went back after 10 days with the gift card and $3, told my story, and said the debit transaction never cleared.
After speaking to senior management I walked out with $1297 in cash from the gift card.
I held on to the money for about 6 months, but eventually spent it.
I figure I have to be a member there for at least 26 years now.
@forgottenpassword: “…I love these stories about how the bank fucks up & then sues the customer…”
The bank isn’t suing anyone-the bank calls the DA and the DA convenes a grand jury to indict the customer on bank fraud–it’s the Feds that are coming after anyone caught withdrawing funds that don’t belong to them. It’s no longer between you and the bank. There are no loopholes. If there were any, the Commerce Bank customer would have been eligible to use them since he notified the bank multiple times about the error and used the money only when the bank assured him he was free to do so.
@bonzombiekitty, @Sudonum: You’re both wrong…the gift donor is taxed, not the donee. There’s an exclusion of up to $12,000 (I think) for the donor.
Unfortunately, if he paid back even a penny he has no leg to stand on as he has already admitted that the Bank is due. So far it was reported that he paid $624.25, and $5,500.
I personally went through something similar but much smaller. Allied insurance company, after months of arguing that they were due the money, rturned $7,500 and change to me from a medical reimbursement account they claimed was zero balance and paid in full. I knew I owed it. They refused payment. They sent my check back un-cashed with a note attached and signed saying “Paid in Full.” I also had numerous audio messages saved stating the same from different associates. So I spent it.
Nearly a year latter they called saying I was owing nearly 8,000 now and needed to pay now. I agree they are due and explain that I will be sending small payments… They refuse and file suite. I got jacked in the end because as it turns out that because I sent in a small payment to the lawyer in the beginning of their sudden memory restoration.
Point is, if you are trying to deny or might get sued and want to settle for less NEVER SEND ANY PAYMENTS! It will only acknowledge debt.
“Agreed. If making a transaction of over $10,000 requires a shitload of paperwork, shouldn’t it take a lot more to move 280,000? “
Only if it’s cash. Checks, wire transfers, electronic transfers, none of that requires any paperwork.