If you’d like to play the PC version of Bioware/EA’s hit XBOX 360 title “Mass Effect,” you’d better have an internet connection. Why? Because in order to remain “activated” the game will need to reauthorize itself via the internet every 10 days. Go 11 days without checking in and your game won’t work until you do. Some gamers are saying that this requirement makes them feel like criminals, and doesn’t make a lot of sense for a game that otherwise doesn’t require an internet connection.
From the Mass Effect forums:
It is good that Bioware and EA want to kill piracy — but really, though; at what expense?…If somehow a copy of MEPC game gets out w/out any protection around comes out, that copy won’t be hindered by any checks. Why should a legitimate buyer of MEPC have to pay money to be treated like he’s a pirate when he isn’t the pirate?
Say you, the legitimate MEPC owner, has lost their Internet connection — and it’s say not on your end, but your ISP’s. What now? Will you be locked out of your legit copy of your game for NO REASON?
Say you, legitimate MEPC owner, tried to get your copy verified online from its online check — but, for some reason, EA and Bioware’s servers are down. Or say, too many MEPC users are booting MEPC at once to get verified and you just can’t connect for a good while — whether it’s 2 minutes, 20 mins, or 1 hour or more. That’s an inconvenience. So, will the game boot b/c you can’t get your legit copy verified?
Let’s hope EA and Bioware are planning on operating these servers in perpetuity, because Mass Effect is very addicting, and if you don’t agree, my level 60 Adept Nemesis will Singularity your ass.
What do you think of this style of DRM? Are they punishing the ones who don’t steal? Or is this necessary to protect their investment?
Mass Effect for PC System Specs, SecuROM and FAQ [Bioware]
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@crice: Like I said, I assumed that some people had read, like, A Modest Proposal (Johnathan Swift), or something, and could catch sarcasm. And like I said, I was way wrong.
By the way:
“As for the “instructing servicemen on how they should be spending their free time,” I’m pretty sure the entire situation was in a hypothetical context, and I’m pretty sure my responses were entirely sarcastic. But okay, sorry (to TechnoDestructo…”
So excuse me if I go ahead and say “who the hell are you?”
People will just buy it THEN go and get the crack that will be sure to be out there bypassing the check
@Geekybiker: since you’re in the industry (assuming your on the programming side), can you comment to my original question? in short – why don’t companies generate completely random (not algorithm based) keys, retain an active list of keys & check the keys off the active list when a game is first activated?
all the answers i’ve heard to this previously were along the lines of “not economically feasible”, but it seems as though this e.t. bullshit would require heaps more time, money & energy to work properly.
Such a bunch of BS, I cannot beleive these idiots still think DRM works in the slightest.
It will work fine until 24 hours later hackers create a rouge authentication server or crack to break this “feature”, which is ALWAYS without fail what happens to DRM infestations.
@Geekybiker: I got frustrated with copy protection crap causing me problems and bought a console. I got sick to death of buying games like Diablo II or Medieval Total War only to have them refuse to play because the damn copy protection didn’t like my CD drive.
If your PC game sales are dropping, that’s part of the reason.
The irony is that those times where the damn copy protection caused me to be unable to play the damn game I paid real money for, the solution was to just go download the crack.
Users who don’t like this should take the games back for a refund in massive numbers, a la the recent Vista/Soundblaster debacle. Demanding users have constant and possibly insecure internet connections to computers or game systems is just asking for trouble.
Companies don’t pay attention to valid complaints. They pay attention to money, so you’ve got to hit them where it hurts, in the wallet.
@aphexbr:
Well put.
DRM will never be willingly installed by me ever again on my PC. (Other than the crap DRM that comes with my OS Vista)
I have been burned before by Sony’s DRM. So if your game uses it, then I’m not buying it.
It’s that simple.
Stardock has the right idea with “Sins of a Solar Empire” no DRM, cheaper cost of game.
This gets you more market saturation and you don’t have to pay the DRM developer.
Trust me the DRM is too easy for pirates to strip out anyway so why bother with the cost?
Same kind of crap with Bioshock. I read it was a good game, got rave reviews, but I wasn’t putting malware on my computer to run their game. OBVIOUSLY I am not a criminal, as I bought the game. Why am I being subjected to spyware and malware to play their game? So…needless to say I never played Bioshock, on PC or XBox 360. That company lost a sale.
@ShirtGuyDom:
Bullcrap.
I’m not an avid PC gamer buy I do play PC games. My gaming PC is no longer on a network connection. That would make this game unplayable for me. I’m glad that I found out about this issue here.
I don’t feel the need to run a network cable to my bedroom just so EA can check up on my copy of a game.
@ShirtGuyDom: Thank for for giving us this lesson in the Lifecycle of a Troll:
1. Troll repeatedly makes argument that is 100% airtight (in his head).
2. Others begin to poke holes in said argument.
3. Troll responds with distractions and hand-waving, and self-righteousness.
4. A few well reasoned, balanced rebuttals appear, providing little room for Troll to repeat step 3.
5. Feeling painted in a corner, Troll ignores all substantive arguments and begins throwing around insults, feigning a lack of serious belief in his original argument. This is usually accompanied by retroactive claims of sarcasm.
@ShirtGuyDom: Like I said, I assumed that some people had read, like, A Modest Proposal (Johnathan Swift), or something, and could catch sarcasm. And like I said, I was way wrong.
Sorry, couldn’t let this one pass. There was a study done a few years ago on email and “intent” (sorry, can’t remember the citation). Basically, participants were told to email a message to a recipient, but were instructed to put a particular spin on the message to connote an implied meaning – so the message would be intended to be sarcastic, or polite, or happy, or angry etc. They then surveyed the senders and the recipients about the content of the message. Over 80% of the senders were positive that the emotional cues in their message were clear and that the recipient would “get” what they were saying. But it turned out that only about 40% of the recipients correctly interpreted this implied meaning.
Bottom line: if you assume that others can interpret your implied frame of mind (tone or intent) by what you type, you will be wrongly perceive more than half the time – even if you are _sure_ that your meaning is clear.
@selectman: That is totally, completely, unequivocally, not what happened.
1. My argument was sarcastic. I was playing devil’s advocate.
2. Of course others poked holes in my argument, it was sarcastic.
3. Please quote me doing that.
4. Again, provide quotes.
5. Throwing around insults? I don’t know how long you’ve been following this, but I was the one who’s been insulted.
Thank you for further showing me why such sarcasm straight up does not work here. You want me to throw around insults? Fine. You’re a pretentious, short-sighted, immature ignoramus.
I was waiting for someone to come along and say “you’re just saying you were sarcastic to save face.” Took longer than I expected, but such dickery never fails.
@Czum: Ah, good, there’s a study to back up what I learned.
@ShirtGuyDom: So because PC Gamers aren’t getting killed, it’s okay that they’re getting the shaft. What website do you think you’re posting to?
Sorry, ShirtGuyDom – not meaning to pick on you specifically, just used your comment as a starting point. I think it’s good for all of us, especially in forums like these, to remember that our comments can (and typically will) be misinterpreted. I’ve been on the net in one form or another for about 16 years (back to the days of non-graphical websites (using Lynx)) and still have problems interpreting intent. If I intend an emotion to come across, I try to make it clear, but don’t always succeed. I’ve seen too many flamewars start when a comment intended to be helpful was misconstrued as an attack or criticism.
@Geekybiker: “So every week we can delay pirates results in more sales. People get frustrated waiting and buy a copy instead.”
You’d like to think that’s true, wouldn’t you? Fact is, the majority of pirates were never potential customers. Ever. Or at least that was true before DRM stepped in.
But now, the average consumer and the media is starting to catch on to what DRM is — and they don’t like it. You’re creating a lot of negativity about you and your games. I think I’ve counted a good 10 lost potential sales just in these 2 pages of comments already for that very reason.
DRM has literally pushed otherwise legitimate consumers to become software pirates, or to simply not buy your game at all. And this isn’t limited to the gaming industry either. I’ve had a few friends ask me about Linux after they heard about DRM in Windows Vista.
You’re just losing potential sales in a sad effort to gain sales that never would have existed either way. And not only that, you’re wasting time and resources in the process.
If only the intense backlash against DRM were more clearly voiced outside this forum. It’s something of a collective action problem but it would be a great step towards progress if consumers could band together and in a single voice say no to DRM.
Aside from the fact that DRM doesn’t stop any of the piracy, rather disadvantaging unsophisticated users under the guise of combatting the hackers, it also bloats both the production cost and the purchase price for content.
Who’s with me to just say no to DRM.
While we’re at it maybe we could fight back against the paracopyright regulations of the DMCA…
@ShirtGuyDom: “I was playing devil’s advocate.”
When you play devil’s advocate, you make clear you are advocating for a position you do not necessarily believe. You do not a) present it as your own argument and then b) get all upset and offended when other people take you at your word. That is called a) lying and b) whining.
And you are still coming across as a child, not a mature participant in the conversation. I know in your own head what you’re saying sounds great, but it’s coming across as immature and petulant. Sorry.
(And yes, it pretty much does sound like you’re retroactively claiming sarcasm because you got caught out. That’s definitely the “tone” we’re all reading.)
The part here that boggles my mind is this… DRM has little to no effect on anything besides “casual” piracy, that is to say that people borrowing the game from their friends and installing it. people downloading pirated versions of the game will end up downloading a patched version of the game which bypasses any server checks through whatever means a crafty hacker comes up with to bypass the controls. It seems pretty apparent that in this case the attack will either involve disabling the check or just rerouting it to an answer from something on the same machine…. either way all this does is hurt legitimate users who have to deal with the headache.
my question to EA is this…. what about your college age players who are on college dorm networks which heavily filter IP connections? what’s that you say? sorry.
This is why EA sucks.
@ShirtGuyDom: 3. TechnoDestructo made a valid point about gaming in unconnected/poorly connected places, such as military bases. You chose to shift the debate to an argument about whether you were joking about your response to him, rather than his actual comment.
4. Eyebrows Mcgee made the following point: [consumerist.com]
You then proceeded to the behavior noted in 5.
In addition, you also glossed over your own central thesis; that the only salvation to PC gaming is DRM. Instead, you focused mostly on accusing others of not wanting to save the industry:
“@uberbucket: Why not? So you can torrent games and have nothing to worry about?”
“@Daniels: Yep. Would you rather never be able to play a PC game at all because no developer wanted to waste time developing PC games?”
Those statements are all fine if you can actually prove that PC games cannot succeed without DRM. This point was woefully ignored, however.
The fact is that this is an open question. You must acknowledge this to have any credibility.
@selectman: I wasn’t going to respond to you (I’ve been pretty much done with this whole thing for a while) until I came across this:
“In addition, you also glossed over your own central thesis; that the only salvation to PC gaming is DRM.”
Way to be wrong. I never said that the only salvation of PC gaming is DRM. In fact, I’ve stated multiple times that it’s not the best solution, and I’ve supported the system than GCII uses wholeheartedly.
But fine. I was trolling. I’m sorry. Can we please move the fuck on?
@ShirtGuyDom: @Eyebrows McGee:
Eyebrows McGee’s exactly right. It absolutely appears that you’re calling devil’s advocate now that it’s clear you’re fighting a losing battle.
Heavy-handed DRM is only going to compel more people to get their hands on a pirated version that’s DRM-free, or to crack their copy once they purchase it. Ultimately, this DRM will become a complete non-issue and totally ineffective because anyone wishing to bypass it simply will. That’s the fatal flaw with pretty much any DRM. Someone WILL find a way around it, and that’ll be it.
@ShirtGuyDom: I appreciate your admission and I’d be happy to move on.
I should have worded my point about your central thesis better. I know that you said many times that Mass Effect’s system is not ideal. My point was simply that it was nonetheless crucial to your argument that their system or one like it (potentially superior) is necessary. Others argued that no system was necessary. That’s all.
@ShirtGuyDom: The sad thing is, it was impossible to deduce from your original comment that you weren’t serious, even if you were Swift himself. Sadly here are people out there who hold those opinions. if anything, the responses to your comments simply prove how vehement the opposition to DRM is , and how much EA have to lose by implementing it in this way.
One thing everyone seems to be overlooking is that SecrCRAP is spyware/malware. It prevents you from ing running legal licenced software, software MS has provided themselves for you to us in Vista. You need 3rd party software to remove it without a format reload as there is no patch or removal tool that can or will do it.
@ShirtGuyDom: Thanks.
@ShirtGuyDom:
Yeah, no demo + insane system requirements = people making sure the game will run, if at all, before purchasing.
It’s a little like saying “buy this lotus, no you can’t test drive it, just trust us, it’s really great.. you have seen the pictures right? doesn’t it look great with that guy sitting there? nevermind that you’re like 2 feet too tall to sit in there..”
ahh fuck it, people don’t deserve explanations sometimes. that one is too obvious.
@shirt
Why don’t you go read what Ironclad said about piracy prevention.
The simple way to end piracy is having a game worth playing, a comprehensive demo, and not using something that f**ks with your customer’s computer OR game experience. Starware is a nightmare, Securom doesn’t like a lot of burners (which are standard drives on PC’s now), and Sony used a rootkit (for MUSIC), and I have friends that don’t have internet. Oh well, there’s always someone cracking this crap 15 minutes after it’s released.
I don’t advocate piracy, as I believe people should be paid for their work. Don’t make a demo? I’ll advocate someone trying it for about an hour to see if they like it.
Sorry to beat the dead horse, but:
[www.penny-arcade.com]
Supply & Demand + piracy is what caused this situation; but I hope that the companies involved are smart enough to offer a non-DRM version of the software (and a patch for existing buyers) after the title has been around for 3-4 years.
I’d (begrudgingly) expect DRM on a new $50 title, but when it’s 4 years old and available under $20…. one would expect the DRM to be dropped as the title is closer to “end of life”.
Maybe this company needs to state “we have a patch that will disable the DRM check and it will be freely released in the event that the product is discontinued, or our company is dissolved or purchased by another entity that no longer chooses to support this product.”
yeah, right.
Wait they’re doing this with Spore? DAMN IT! That was the ONE PC game I was looking forwards to. If this is true, then I’m going to cancle my pre-order.
Sorry but I’ll pirate a copy before I buy into that BS. I’ve had to house sit for over two weeks before w/o net connection. I play games. Frnakly these dragonian mesuares are driving me to download games. I don’t run a machine for game companies to check on every ten days. I use it for ME.
@ShirtGuyDom
This is the First time I have ever posted on a forum. I feel compelled to completely support ShirtGuyDom position on everything in this thread. His original comments about DRM were completely coherent, and from the standpoint of his argument, very rational. While some of his sarcasm was subtle, if you read most of his posts (which I did) It becomes clear. His responses to criticism of him and his arguments actually shows a level of maturity much beyond his 18 years. This was one of the most entertaining forum threads I have read in awhile. Kudos to you, ShirtGuyDom. We need commentors like you, so keep on posting!