Kohls Violates Visa's Merchant Agreement, Refuses To Accept Credit Card Without ID

Inelegy writes:

This afternoon I visited the Kohl’s store in Moline, Illinois. When I was checking out I elected to pay with my Visa card. After sliding my card through the card reader I signed the screen when prompted. My cashier asked to see the card, which I handed over to her. She handed my card back to me and then asked to see my identification, to which I respectfully declined. She said I had to show my ID or I could not leave the store with my purchases…

I explained to her that customers using Visa credit cards do not have to show identification as a condition of purchase as long as the back of the card is signed (mine is) and to compel them to do so is a violation of the store’s agreement with the credit card company.

She flatly denied that this was true and again asked for my ID. It was at this point I realized I was dealing with someone who through her persistent need to argue with me has no interest in customer service and told her I was not going to show her my ID and demanded she void the transaction. I told her I did not need to give Kohl’s my money if they were going to argue with me about something which I know to be fact.

I found her request especially odd since she took my Visa card, handed it back, and then asked for my ID. What was she going to do with the information on my ID?

I thought I would bring this matter to your attention. Perhaps the management team at the Moline store need to be brought up to speed on merchant’s agreements with credit card companies.

If there are questions about this matter, I direct you and the Moline store’s management to please see page 29 “reporting them. Here’s how to contact Visa:

Visa
Phone Number: 1-800-VISA-911 (International: 1-410-581-9994). Or call the number on the back of your card
Mailing Address:
Visa U.S.A. Inc.
P.O. Box 194607
San Francisco, California 94119-4607
Online: Your card issuer’s website may let you send them complaints about merchant violations and start a dispute if your were charged a fee to use your card.

Visa will fire off a stern letter to the store in question, and your next shopping experience should be hassle-free.

PREVIOUSLY: Writing “Ask For ID” On Your Credit Card Won’t Stop Fraud, But It’s Still A Good Idea
How To Report Merchants For Requiring A Minimum Purchase Or Making You Show ID
(Photo: Getty)

Comments

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  1. Nithwa says:

    I’ve never liked these stories. It seems like the folks who always refuse to do what the store asks are the same types who do the most complaining in a restaurant and refuse tips to waiters and waitresses because one little thing was wrong. Get over it! You have to pick your battles and this one isn’t really worth fighting. It doesn’t matter how right you are because it’s just a pointless argument. The customer in the story didn’t get their crap, will probably end up going back to Kohls and buying the things she wanted anyway once the anger has settled down. Kohls won’t change their policy (Unless Visa forces them to, which is very unlikely), and no one else who shops at Kohls will give a crap.

  2. BugMeNot2 says:

    I disagree with James. It is important that merchants and retailers be kept in check, especially when they anoint themselves with police powers. You may NOT see my ID.

  3. edrebber says:

    A large percenatage of Identity Theft occurrs from store employees viewing IDs.

    Ask the employee for their ID so you can report them to the police if you find identity has been stolen.

  4. Syrenia says:

    I had the perfect cashier yesterday at JJill. She ran my card and held it while I signed the receipt. She then compared the signatures on the card and receipt. She *read* the signature panel on my card and saw the “Pls ask for ID” that is there next to my signature, and aked for my ID. She then looked at the photo on the ID, and at me, and handed everything back to me. It took about 15 seconds in all.

    We need more like her!

  5. AlexDitto says:

    @BugMeNot2: Definitely. Unless I request that you verify my ID on the back of my card, I should not have to submit to arbitrary verifications that the store has no right to impose.

    Next thing you know, they’re going to be asking for your fingerprint… hello Gattaca! I see you and 1984 have met…

    I’m sure the cashier would flatly refuse if you asked to see their ID, or requested their phone number, zip code, and mother’s maiden name, just to verify they actually are a cashier and not some identity thief. Why is it any different in the other direction?

  6. I hate the idea of having to ask for id with a credit card as well. When I set up people for a new blockbuster account they need a form of id and a debit or credit card to add to their account. If i were able to I’d let them type everything into the computer themselves but my boss said I’d have to ask them for their id and debit/credit card and type everything in myself. Anyways it was retarded of the cashier to ask for an id as well.

  7. sisedi says:

    I think these days we should have ID checks for any credit card purchase. If your name and picture does not match the owner of the credit card, you should not be able to make a purchase.

    I was a cashier at BBuy and I am positive that at least once I’ve put through a credit card purchase to a person who did not own that card and simply didn’t check ID. When you have sub-18 year old kids come in with credit cards you can pretty much guess.

    I still regret doing this to this day because I put the store sales in front of security for that card owner.

  8. beboptheflop says:

    I can tell you exactly what happened. Believe it or not, store associates feel a personal responsibility to the store to make sure that whomever is shopping there is not stealing, using a credit card fraudulently, or whatever. Some associates are more gung ho than others, this was probably the case and not necessarily Kohl’s policy to see ID. If the associate’s manager had been asked to be seen by the customer, the customer would have most likely received an apology, a small discount on her purchase and the associate would have been reprimanded for not following company policy. ID theft was likely not the motive.

  9. chrispiss says:

    There is nothing “going on” here, other than the checker was uninformed. There are so many different ideas about how to accept credit cards, and different laws in different states. In Washington, by law you have to sign the back of your card prior to using it or else it won’t be accepted.

    I hate these stories where people think they are some sort of hero for “busting” people who do this sort of thing. Very likely the checker was untrained in that area, that’s it. Frustrating yes, but there is no weird conspiracy to steal your precious driver’s license info. She probably would’ve glanced at the name and picture, looked at the buyer, and handed it back.

    And it was Kohl’s. They get people in, pay them nothing, and train them how to press the buttons on the register. Get over it.

  10. walterm08 says:

    The exact same thing happened to me at Kohls yesterday. The cashier asked my girlfriend for ID after paying with her Mastercard. Before I could object, she ignorantly handed it over. I filled her in what she should do next time once we left the store.

  11. johnva says:

    @sisedi: It wasn’t the customers’ liability if it was a credit card. All you’re protecting is the credit card company.

    I don’t understand the obsession with credit card security on here. Credit cards are an inherently insecure system, and until they are replaced with something more secure, that will be the case. It’s not the cardholders’ liability, so why care so much? If they choose not to implement better security as a business decision, it’s not my problem.

  12. Shmonkmonk says:

    @edrebber: Do you know this to be a fact? I hardly doubt that anyone who looks at my ID for 2 seconds to verify that my name matches the one on my visa card also memorized my address and visa # in that 2 seconds.

  13. chrispiss says:

    @edrebber: I find that hard to believe. What source are you using for that? A large part is phishing, hacking, or the cardholder doing something stupid with their cards or accounts. Also identity theft isn’t just a fraudulent charge on your account, it’s someone assuming your identity and opening accounts in your name and basically becoming you to steal money. A store clerk cannot easily do this with just a 5 second glance at your DL.

  14. chrispiss says:

    @Shmonkmonk: Another good point. It’d be much easier for them to do harm by looking at your credit card when they ask to see it. If that is, somehow they can memorize that long number in the half second they flip it over and glance at the signature line.

  15. ryanv1978 says:

    i’ll never understand these people who choose to fight this battle.

    what do you gain?

  16. humphrmi says:

    @James Gamble:

    The customer in the story didn’t get their crap, will probably end up going back to Kohls and buying the things she wanted anyway once the anger has settled down.

    Actually, if you read the OP:

    Afterwards, I went to the Target store next door and made a similar purchase with my Visa card and did not have to surrender my personal identification to do so.

    So it sounds like they “got their crap” from another store that does not require us to be boot-licking servants of their aspirations to turn retail into a police state.

    Photo ID does no good in preventing ID theft; any half-wit thief will just print up an ID with their picture and your name on it. On the other hand, giving your ID (which most likely includes easily-decoded personal information on it, like your Social Security Number) opens you up to ID theft from the cashier who saw it.

  17. vasquire32 says:

    Why would you COMPLAIN about a cashier wanting to verify that is YOUR card? Give me a F-ing break.

    I hope ALL cashiers check my photo ID when I use my credit card.

  18. vasquire32 says:

    By the way, no public ID’s have social security numbers on them anymore. If your state’s does then you live in a dumb state.

  19. johnva says:

    @ryanv1978: What’s not to understand? It’s privacy, and better protection against identify theft.

  20. johnva says:

    @vasquire32: Because it doesn’t really matter if credit card account theft occurs (since it’s not my liability), but it does matter if identity theft occurs. And showing ID does little to prevent credit card account theft, but does increase my risk of identity theft.

    Credit card thieves can just clone your card number onto a different card, or use it someplace where they don’t have to present it to a cashier. Writing that on the back does little, since if you do they will just not use it someplace a cashier might see it.

  21. Shmonkmonk says:

    The more you resist, the more suspicious you appear. If she said, “I’m sorry, I don’t have it with me at the moment” the cashier probably would’ve let the transaction go through. It’s human nature to want to stop a wrong and if someone’s acting fishy, of course the cashier’s going to be difficult.

    What was more important to this women, making her purchase w/o having to show an ID or proving her point to a whole bunch of people who don’t care?

  22. Scatter says:

    Maybe it’s just me but I don’t see what the big deal would have been to just show the cashier your driver’s license. People who refuse to do so would make me suspicious as well.

  23. wesrubix says:

    You all really need to remember the risk of writing “ask for ID” on your signature panel. Because you have not signed your card, the merchant has every right to refuse your credit card.

    So you should sign your card AND write “ask for ID” if you are so inclined.

  24. johnva says:

    @Shmonkmonk: But there’s nothing “wrong” or suspicious about not wanting to show ID. I think a lot of people’s problem with this practice is that they are resistant to the idea of having to show ID for everything, and don’t want it to become common practice.

  25. humphrmi says:

    @vasquire32:

    By the way, no public ID’s have social security numbers on them anymore.

    Um, except for the 17 states that do:

    [www.pimall.com]

    If your state’s does then you live in a dumb state.

    I agree, but there are more of them than “none”.

  26. robyns says:

    @Shmonkmonk: @chrispiss: Yes, really! Unless the cashier has magical powers of memory or a secret photocopier next to the register, identity theft happening in this manner seems unlikely.

  27. johnva says:

    @humphrmi: I’m not disagreeing with you on principle, but I think that list is at least somewhat out of date. It says my state uses a SSN unless you request that they not, but that definitely hasn’t been the case for several years at least.

  28. humphrmi says:

    @robyns: It doesn’t take much to remember a name and number for two minutes until the customer walks away, and then write it down.

  29. xthexlanternx says:

    While I don’t think you should have to present your ID if asked, I think it is nice that the store is at least looking out for theives. If I had to choose between the checkout person looking at my ID, seeing “SEE ID”, and not asking me for my ID and having to show my ID every time I used my card, I’d definitely prefer the latter. But then again, my state doesn’t have my SSN on my ID.

  30. zentex says:

    @humphrmi: except that list is outdated. GA hasn’t used SSN’s in at least 5 years, perhaps a bit longer.

  31. beboptheflop says:

    The bottom line is that the associate did this on her own. Companies as a practice do not ask for ID because it prevents the possiblility of a racist associate doing racial profiling. The store is going to get their money from VISA, MC, AMEX, no matter what. Like I said before, this associate is not looking to steal anyone’s identity, she’s just a little more protective of the store than you can imagine. Even people who work for next to nothing still have some form company pride and this was her way of showing it.

    • alexo says:

      Not true. I’ve worked at Kohl’s. They are trained to ask for ID if someone uses a credit card. I voided quite a few sales because a person signed someone else’s name but, on ID check, it turned out it wasn’t the actual person.

      It’s not that hard to fake most signatures. I mean, it has to be REALLY far skewed for a store to say ‘well we can’t let that slide’ even if you opt for a paper signature instead of the electronic one. Your full name is on the credit card.

  32. johnva says:

    @beboptheflop: Well then stores need to explicitly train their cashiers on this point and explain that they cannot demand ID as a condition of accepting a credit card. It’s not her fault if she’s untrained.

  33. snakeuvs says:

    These ID stories and the stories about showing your receipt while exiting a store always bring out the people who are unclear on the concept of Consumerist.com.

    This site is about consumers’ rights, not the rights of The Man to make up arbitrary rules and expect you to follow them so that you can have the honor of handing over your hard-earned money.

    Of course it’s always going to be easier to submit to any ridiculous or, in this case, invalid request from a merchant. Standing up for your rights against a merchant who is clearly wrong is never silly or much ado about nothing.

    To all the “go along to get along” folks: UR DOING IT WRONG!

    Those who complain about these stories where people stand up for their rights need to realize this is not Sheepleist.com.

  34. stinerman says:

    @vasquire32:

    You refuted your own argument, so I feel no need to proceed with my post.

  35. craigpress says:

    If you don’t want the store to ask you to show some ID to use credit, then use cash. A credit card is just that credit. Seriously, get over yourselves. I agree the store should not take down the info on the ID. But I actually thank cashiers that ask for ID. If I am in line and they ask for someone else’s ID and and then they refuse and make a stink, I thank the cashier when I get up there for helping those of us who have had ID theft. Sure they can clone cards and make fake IDs. But that is not the usual case. They take your stolen CC’s and got to stores to rack up charges before they are canceled. Then they use your numbers to get new credit accounts (a good reason to have a credit block with the reporting agencies).

  36. catnapped says:

    @ryanv1978: Hey awesome–how about sharing your drivers license information with the group (unless of course, you have something to hide)?

    I can’t wait until stores decide to require two forms of ID and you “bend over and take it” people have to submit a fingerprint or a SS # in addition to a driver’s license. But hey, if you’ve got nothing to hide….

  37. stinerman says:

    @zentex:

    Ohio just recently stopped. Previously it was a question at the BMV. When I mentioned I didn’t want my SSN on my license, the clerk got all huffy and said that I’d have to bring in my SS card every time I needed to do business there. When I agreed she asked again if I was absolutely sure I didn’t want my SSN printed on my license.

    It was a fun day.

  38. stinerman says:

    @humphrmi:

    And the last 4 are usually on the receipt.

  39. SadSam says:

    I don’t want to show my ID for every purchase or show my receipt every time I leave a store. As such I don’t shop at stores (Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc.) that impose these policies. If someone does ask for my ID, I say no thank you (I find these to be magic words, I don’t lecture on polcies, laws, etc.) if I’m pressed I walk away from the purchase and go to another store.

  40. bigroblee says:

    Hello;

    Could someone please explain all the whining about showing your id when you make a purchase? To me that seems like a good idea and a way to cut down on fraudulent point of sale purchases; I’m willing to be wrong, and I am a “consumer advocate” but I just don’t get the complaints about this… Open to explanations.

  41. kallawm says:

    Ok, she asked for your card, then your ID. Could it be she thought the signatures didn’t match?

    If it had been someone else who had taken your card and used it and she hadn’t asked for ID, you’d be raising holy hell right now. And you refusing to show ID only makes it look like you have something to hide.

    I understand that VISA says you don’t have to… but so what? You don’t HAVE to lock your car at night, but that doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea.

    You guys need to chill out on this issue.

  42. TimSPC says:

    Let’s call snakeuvs “The Carpenter”, because he hit the nail on the head.

  43. @bigroblee: It’s because if a cashier asks for an id with a credit card, then they (the cashier) could easily use your info to do fraudulent charges themselves because they now have all of your info to do so. Not saying they’re going to use your info on the spot, but at a later time. And there’s a such thing as fake IDs, so there’s chances that someone gets a credit card, prints up a fake id and change the info around to make it look like they’re the owner of the card and presto it’s still a fraudulent charge. That’s why I like debit cards because you put in a pin number which more than likely only that person will know.

  44. The Bambino says:

    Hmmmm….well where I work you WILL show your ID with your credit card or you will not stay in our establishment. If you are not willing we cannot risk that your credit card will cover the tens of thousands of dollars that could be damaged in just one evening.
    Obviously this situation is a bit apples and oranges, but the “never show your ID people” might object to our policy as well?

  45. TexasScout says:

    Guys like him are the ones that bitch the loudest when they are victims of CC fraud. It’s a small thing. Show them.

  46. Namrepus says:

    Full Disclosure: I work in retail, at a convience store.

    Yes. We will have to ask a customer to present ID. According to what I’ve been told and what I’ve been able to talk to people higher up. If we have to ask for ID it’s because a card has been used multiple times within a 24 hour period. Our register will say “Check ID. Accept Y/N” This is simply to prevent against fraud cause it’s easy to clone a card. If the cashier at Kohl’s didn’t have a reason why she was asking for the ID, then yes she’s in the wrong in this part.

  47. bohemian says:

    This is something systematic with Kohls.
    It is either something that comes up on the cashier screen demanding they ask for ID or they have told cashiers they have the right or should ask for ID in certain circumstances. They may have just given them permission to be arbitrary about it if they don’t like the way you look.

    I have bought things frequently over the years at Kohls. I had this happen once and the clerk was a real jerk and refused to complete the transaction without it. I have bought things on the same card after that and have not been asked.

    This is something that is some sort of policy at Kohls and not an isolated incident. They need to get their hands smacked.

  48. lefty_redhead says:

    @humphrmi: That list is at least 7 years old. Virginia has not been using SSN since at least 9/18/01. Many of the 9/11 hijackers had false IDs easily issued from Virginia’s DMV. Since then VA has gone fairly hardcore about their ID system. It took 7 days to make all sorts of new rules for IDs. Now, heaven help you if you lose your ID and your birth certificate. You must have your birth cert. to get ID, and you need your ID for your birth cert…

    Live in VA, got married in DC. SOOOO much fun when I went to change my name on my license. I had to justify my reason for getting married at my church (which is in DC) to the SUPER-friendly CSR at DMV before they would change my name. And had to show my new Social Security Card, too.

  49. lefty_redhead says:

    @bohemian: I have never been asked for ID when buying things with a Kohl’s card. But I have seen that happen a lot when others are using a different card.

    Is Kohl’s card security so powerful they don’t need ID? Or is this some scheme to get people to open Kohl’s accounts? “Get 10% off and we don’t need to see ID?”

  50. markrubi says:

    @humphrmi:

    Oklahoma does not use SSN’s at all any longer, and have not for years. That site has outdated info on it.

  51. digitalgimpus says:

    Good: Writing “Ask for ID” on the back of your credit card, allowing merchants to request identification.

    Still bad. Not allowed to write it, and they still aren’t allowed to ask for it. I hate this advice. It’s been debunked as myth before.

  52. Valhawk says:

    @snakeuvs: Ad Hominum attacks will get you nowhere. The reason there is such a divide on this issue is because it balances people need for privacy and peoples desire not to be stolen from.

    The Consumerist is stronger because we are a diverse group with a wide range of opinions. Your clear desire for a homophily would only weaken support for issue the majority agree on.

  53. humphrmi says:

    To all the “just get over it, show your card dammit” crowd:

    To stand in silence when they should be protesting makes cowards out of men

    –Abraham Lincoln

  54. Valhawk says:

    @digitalgimpus: They still have the right to ask for it, they just can’t refuse the transaction if you decline to provide your ID.

  55. Ihaveasmartpuppy says:

    Last week I used a Mastercard at Old Navy for a whopping $16 purchase. The cashier asked to see my ID too. I thought it was a big case of overkill for a puny purchase but wasn’t in the arguing mood. Funny thing is, I look NOTHING like my ID.

  56. amightywind says:

    @humphrmi:

    i think it’s less for “ID theft” in the sense of taking a card out of the mail or hacking info, but more for “oh, i lost my wallet sometime in the last hour and somebody just charged a $1200 TV at target”.

    i’d much rather be asked for my ID than have someone be able to use my card unchecked.

  57. cloudedice says:

    @wesrubix: Doesn’t the Visa mechant policy even say that if you see “Ask for ID” that the cashier is to ask the customer to sign the card then an there, and then NOT check for ID. After all, the card terms have not been accepted until the card has been signed.

  58. azntg says:

    Kindly tell those folks who are so ID-check happy, that it’s impossible for their credit card to be used for unauthorized purchases once ID verifications are made. I’m sure it’ll be a real surprise to those same people when they see an unauthorized charge at someplace they haven’t ever physically been to!

    Fake ID and card cloning are rare occurances? It won’t feel so rare once you’re actually affected by that!

    @snakeuvs: Thank You, Sir!

  59. WraithSama says:

    I love how often I see some form of the line “get over yourselves” coming from people who don’t care for these kind of stories. That exact kind of attitude makes me think those people need to get over themselves instead, since they apparently feel qualified to judge people for not wanting to be forced to comply with what some feel to be an annoying policy that is in violation of the credit card merchant agreements.

    Now then, that having been said, the bottom line of these stories is independant of whether people think this is a good or acceptable practice, or people’s opinions regarding it. No, the main point is that, per their agreements with the credit card companies, stores do not have the right to make ID checking a mandatory requirement for completing a purchase. This means us, the consumers, have the right to decline to show ID. It doesn’t matter whether you elect to or not, you still have that right. These stories are about merchants violating that agreement and striping you of that right, regardless if you choose to excercise it or don’t.

    If you think the right to refuse to show ID is silly and think it’s crazy not to, fine! No problem! But don’t tread on people who happen to disagree with your opinion with smarmy remarks. Choosing to show my ID to a clerk who asks for it is not a big deal to me personally, but I also appreciate that I have the right to decline.

  60. Chad LaFarge says:

    Identity theft is a real concern, but so is just plain old theft. What I hate is the idea of someone stealing my CC and NOT being asked for ID when they use it.

    By the way, I also want stores to ask to see a receipt at the door as I leave, and I want them to stamp the things I bring in with me. Keeps my costs (their prices) down by deterring theft.

    This blog does a lot of good things, but inspiring this kind of silly rebellion is not one of them.

  61. katra says:

    “What was she going to do with the information on my ID?”

    Confirm that you were indeed the cardholder. Do you think these cashiers are memorizing your card names, numbers and expiration dates at a glance?

  62. cloudedice says:

    @WraithSama: +1. The other day i was leaving Wal-Mart with an unbagged item, and was asked to show the receipt. I still had it in my hand, so I showed it because it was convenient to me. Had I already put it away, I would have said “No, thank you” and kept walking. It was my CHOICE to not exercise my right to leave with my legally purchased items without showing a receipt.

  63. katra says:

    @katra: Er, I meant your address and various ID information. Shouldn’t post before coffee.

  64. cloudedice says:

    @cloudedice: I forgot to mention that the card contained a number of bagged items, in addition to the one unbagged item that didn’t fit into a bag.

  65. robyns says:

    @humphrmi: A name and an entire credit card # and address? Please. Has this actually ever happened? There are many, many ways to have your ID stolen, and it’s fine to feel wary about sharing ID, but has anyone actually ever had their info stolen this way?

  66. MelL says:

    @robyns: So should we wait until there is a concrete example of it taking place?

  67. Jaysyn was banned for: http://consumerist.com/5032912/the-subprime-meltdown-will-be-nothing-compared-to-the-prime-meltdown#c7042646 says:

    @James Gamble:

    The customer is always right.

  68. Jaysyn was banned for: http://consumerist.com/5032912/the-subprime-meltdown-will-be-nothing-compared-to-the-prime-meltdown#c7042646 says:

    @sisedi:
    I buy shit for my boss through a company CC all the time so this wouldn’t fly at all now would it? Some real geniuses on here I tell you.

  69. Dakine says:

    Even better, I like when stores take it upon themselves to not only require your “government papers”, but also be the deciders in what constitutes “acceptable ID”. Some stores refuse to accept a state issued ID card as “ID” or anything less than a full blown drivers license.

    But what if you don’t drive and don’t have a drivers license?

    I’ll tell you what then. Then you become “highly suspicious” in the eyes of Mr. minimum wage retail clerk because naturally, “what kind of sick terrorist must you be if you don’t have a DRIVERS LICENSE?!”

    God bless our police state. Line up, on your knees, give the boot a good licking and….. NEXT!

  70. Nithwa says:

    @Jaysyn: No, the customer is generally wrong and have this strange notion that they know how to run a business better than the folks who actually DO run a business. I’m all for consumer rights, but to say the customer is always right is total horse shit.

  71. thelushie says:

    @stinerman: This is the same state that has a credit card on the list of acceptable ID forms because as the brillant BMV employee told me “It has your social security number on it.” When I pointed out how stupid that was, she just gave me a blank stare. Yeah, I live in Ohio too and have been trying to put off changing my driver’s license over for a variety of reasons.

  72. thelushie says:

    @WraithSama: For me it isn’t “get over yourself” until there is an implication that because someone works at Kohls/Walmart/Kmart/Family Dollar, that you don’t show because they will steal your numbers. The implication is is that if you work in one of those establishments, then there is a real chance that the cashier or whomever, is going to steal your high and mighty numbers. There is no more of a chance than a sales associate at Nordstroms stealing your number. It is an elitist thing. And the truth is, if you hold that sort of attitude, you either 1) came from a poor family and now have money and don’t know how to deal with it/still in a poor mindset, or 2) just fell off the turnip truck and are trying to put up a false front on the internet. Which ever one it is, you sound stupid and I will call you out on it. Just because YOU think YOU are so important, doesn’t mean that the world does.

  73. mijo_sq says:

    @Chad LaFarge:
    haha this is EXACTLY what I was thinking…

    Was there any example of an individual who had their ID stolen because someone memorized their information from an ID?

  74. calvinneal says:

    The problem is this. Most new state driver licenses have an imbedded information strip just like a credit card. Minimum wage clerk with the cracked up boyfriend scans your id, transfers it to the secret card reader in her pocket and you, Mr. or Ms. Customer, are on the id theft roller coaster to hell. Driver License information can be stolen by card readers. When the new license types “Real id” that have imbedded social security information become mandatory in 2011 the risk increases again. There will be the “enhanced”enhanced real id for persons in northern states to use for crossing the Canadian Border. These will contain passport type information. The risk is real. I don’t think any of us on this forum have an answer. Showing my id can prevent one type of id theft and facilitate an other.

  75. rlee says:

    @lefty_redhead: VA at least gave you the option of no SSN well before that — 93 or 94, I think. It was not long after I moved there, and I went in and got my SSN-bearing license replaced as soon as the option was available.

  76. MelL says:

    @mijo_sq: Check out “shoulder-surfing” on Google. Yes, it involves a different means of gaining information, but if someone can glean useful information with a glance, imagine the person who you just handed your information over to directly for as long as they need.

  77. Dakine says:

    Putting “Ask For ID” on the back of your card makes about as much sense as buying something online and putting in the comment box “Ask For ID”.

    No merchant needs to see your ID for anything unless you are purchasing age restricted products such as alcohol. Minimum wage clerk at Walmart is hardly properly trained in ID Theft Detection. Any crook worth his shirt can forge an ID to match a credit card. Does anyone honestly believe that little Suzy Cashier has the experience and intellect to effectively pinpoint a crook with a fake ID? I highly doubt it. So what is the point. You expose yourself to POTENTIAL fraud by complying with these unreasonable and invalid demands. No one needs to document any cases of this happening, because it doesn’t matter. The POTENTIAL is there, and that’s enough.

    Forcing you to divulge your personal information as a condition of purchase violates the merchant account policy. Period.

  78. mijo_sq says:

    @MelL:
    I googled the term, but what I meant was for someone to steal your info within the glance of your ID…

    Unless my card and ID are going anywhere out of my sight, I’ll just use cash.

  79. jjeeff says:

    It’s obvious some large corporations just don’t care about their merchant agreement. What is Visa going to do – cancel their agreement with Kohls and give Mastercard all their business? No way.

  80. rainday says:

    @wesrubix: Just because someone writes “check id” does that change the merchant agreement? I didn’t read anything in the merchant agreement that says “unless the customer writes check id, you can’t ask for id” So what is the point of “ask for id?”

  81. Dakine says:

    @jjeeff:

    No, that won’t happen, but it works both ways too. Kohls can’t afford to lose their Visa option, so they’ll do what it takes to make sure that doesn’t happen. And Visa knows this.

    Visa is the one in charge here. Kohls will do what Visa tells them. I’ve had merchant accounts in the past, and when Visa says jump, you jump. Visa says hop up and down on one leg and yodel, you start hopping and yodeling.

  82. azntg says:

    @James Gamble:
    You claim that you support customer’s rights, but from the two comments you’ve made already, you seem to have developed a pretty rigid stance against consumers anyway. However, understand that they don’t exactly go hand in hand.

    Funny thing is, businessmen have this strange notion that they can run a business without treating their customers with a certain degree of respect.

    Of course, the answer is: That’s okay, you can always run a business that way. It’s like jumping off a high flying airplane without a parachute. You’ll love the immediate rush, but a miserable crash is guaranteed down the road. People will remember, if not better than you can.

    If it’s any consolation, you’re not the only one thinking in that manner. Some of my very own extended family members (shopkeeps and/or businessmen too) are guilty of that too. A real shame that some of them are too set in their ways…

    @thelushie:
    While I think everyone’s entitled to their own opinions and yours in particular has some degree of merit, the phrasing irks me.

    You did make one strong point in your comment though and let me toss it back to you: “Just because YOU think YOU are so important, doesn’t mean that the world does.”

  83. MelL says:

    @mijo_sq: Shoulder-surfing sets a precedent, though, for someone stealing your information from your cards. If someone can do it at a glance, they surely can do it when they have control of the ID.

  84. chrylis says:

    @sisedi: If you are (understandably) concerned about theft of your credit card, you can prevent the same particular kind of fraud asking for ID does by getting a credit card with your photo printed on it. Many issuers offer such cards free of charge, since it helps reduce fraudulent charges, and the merchant agreements do emphatically state that if there’s a picture on the credit card, it *and* the signature have to match.

  85. rlee says:

    @rlee: Ok, I found it on the VA DMV web site. SSN on license was removed in 2003; the option to get an SSN-free license came in 1995:
    “Virginia driver’s licenses and photo identification cards issued July 1, 2003 and after will no longer display Social Security Numbers (SSN)… Since 1995, DMV has given Virginians the option of displaying either their SSN or a DMV-issued customer number on their driver’s licenses or ID cards.”
    [www.dmv.virginia.gov]

  86. digitalgimpus says:

    @Valhawk:

    1. They have the right to ask, but can’t refuse the transaction, meaning it’s pointless to write.

    2. YOU can’t write it, as your required to write your signature. The card is technically null and void unless it contains a legal signature.

    3. The merchant can (and should) refuse the card because of #2.

    It’s a myth that you should write that in the signature spot. Lets let this one finally die.

    Credit cards weren’t designed to be secure. The marketing pitch was fast instant credit. Not security. If you want security, use a personal check or cash.

    Reality is we should have a secure class of credit cards that are useless without an ID, but that’s not going to happen as it’s cost prohibitive (need a way to verify 50 different licenses from different states), and it’s still useless overseas. It’s been proposed more than once, and has never went anywhere. Even fingerprint matching has been proposed, but that’s cost prohibitive.

  87. forgottenpassword says:

    I personally hate it when I am asked for ID (as if i was some sort of credit card thief trying to get away with something!). What I usually do is open my wallet & lay it on the counter with my driver’s license in the ID window of my wallet showing. They NEVER check when I do that…. & if they did…. I’d have to scooch my DL out a bit for them to actually read it considering the DL has the info oddly placed on it & my wallet’s ID window blocks half of the info.

    I am against checking ID when it comes to credit card purchases. If someone used my CC to buy things…. I am not liable (as long as I keep a close eye on my statement …which i do). For me the whole point of using a credit card is to be able to protect yourself by using someone else’s money (the credit card issuer).

    Note: my state was/is one of those states that have/had SS#’s on driver’s Licenses…. I replaced mine as soon as possible when news of identity theft became a serious issue.

  88. MelL says:

    @digitalgimpus: You *could* write both in there. :p

  89. Lucky225 says:

    @James Gamble:

    It’s pointless? Is that why you didn’t get tips as a waiter? Don’t hate cus the customer is right

  90. orlo says:

    I don’t understand why people passionately want to show their IDs. If your card is stolen you will not lose money. If a store requires thieves to show ID s/he will get a fake one or order on the internet. And you still won’t lose money. (And how often and for how long do you lose your credit card anyway??)

    If you are so interested in helping to reduce stores’ costs of business please remove your clothes before entering. This will greatly reduce shoplifting.

  91. Lucky225 says:

    @sisedi:

    Cashiers simply need to use common sense and check the signature on the card against the one on the receipt.

    Criminals are not going to SIGN a STOLEN card that is in their possession. Cards are not VALID unless signed. Counterfeit cards are the majority of fraud, NOT stolen cards. CHECK THE CARD WITH UV LIGHT. And stop worrying about if BestBuy gets a chargeback, they’re paying you minimum wage anyways. The customer won’t be liable as most cards have 0% fraud liability, and you’re only liable for up to $50 by law.

  92. Lucky225 says:

    @chrispiss:

    I’ve memorized all my credit card numbers just by looking at them, but guess what your checking account # is on the bottom of every check you write. Here’s the deal your CC # doesn’t GIVE YOUR DL#, address, dob, etc.. Sure they can make a fraudulent charge on the CC, but if they do YOU ARE NOT LIABLE. Much rather have someone know my card # then my DL#

  93. Lucky225 says:

    To all you naysayers who seem to think photo ID is a good idea for credit cards EVEN THOUGH IT IS SPECIFICALLY AGAINST VISA AND MASTERCARD’S MERCHANT RULES

    CHECK OUT THIS PREVIOUS ARTICLE:

    [consumerist.com]

    I almost got arrested after eating at IHOP because I didn’t SHOW ID with my CREDIT CARD, even though there is no law compelling me to do so, and it violates their merchant agreement.

  94. Dakine says:

    I’m going to write on the back of my cards “Verify Blood Type” and see what happens.

  95. Lucky225 says:

    VISA EVEN *ADVERTISES* WHY IT’S A GOOD IDEA TO USE VISA AND NOT WRITE A CHECK — FOR THOSE TIMES YOU DON’T HAVE ID ON YOU!

  96. rlee says:

    @digitalgimpus: What’s been debunked is the advice to write “ask for ID” instead of signing. Consumerist has previously suggested writing it in addition to signing; I think they need to get in the habit of making that clear whenever they repeat the suggestion.

  97. thalia says:

    I have a friend who works at the local Wal*Mart, and they’ve told all their employees that it’s Wal*Mart policy to check all ID with credit cards, and that their policy voids Visa’s. Totally not true of course, but the manager has told them that in the past if they didn’t check ID and a were somehow found out, it was grounds for being fired for not taking identity theft and customer safety seriously. The manager is telling his employees that the rules are still the same and that anyone caught NOT checking ID will be fired. So my poor friend gets yelled at every day by almost anyone who uses Visa to purchase stuff.

    So, come on people, give cashiers a frikkin break. They’re just doing what they were trained to do. They’ve got mouths to feed at home too. Besides, you know that if someone stole your Visa and charged it at Kohls, you’d waltz in demanding why on earth you didn’t check ID to see that the card didn’t belong to the thief. There’s just no happy middle ground.

  98. WraithSama says:

    Regarding ID theft, has anyone else noticed that restaurants are the only place left where it’s still considered acceptable for the employee to actually leave your sight with your credit card? With your card in hand and out of sight, they have access to your name, your credit card number as well as the security code on the back of the card.

    Paying with a card at restaurants makes me somewhat uneasy.

  99. latemodel says:

    The most common method of identity theft is through hospital records, according to the FBI.

  100. Dakine says:

    @nursethalia:

    I don’t dispute your story, it’s probably true, however… no one is going to guilt me into compromising myself either. Some Wally World manager on a power trip threatening his employees jobs is not my doing, nor my problem. If he followed the terms of the agreement in the first place, it wouldn’t be an issue. This is their problem, not mine.

    And no, if my card was used fraudulently somewhere, I most certainly would not waste my time “waltzing in” to demand anything. I would call my card company, issue a chargeback, report the card as stolen and have a new account number and card delivered to me. Going down to some store where your card was used fraudulently is only wasting your time as well as theirs and does nothing to help you.

  101. TPS Reporter says:

    I think alot of people are missing the point here and that’s if you WANT to show your ID, do it. But if you DON’T, and you signed the back of your card, then you shouldn’t have to.

  102. speedwell (propagandist and secular snarkist) says:

    @rlee: Indeed. I sign my card in red ballpoint, then I write OVER the signature in black Sharpie marker, “PLEASE ASK FOR ID”. Defeats a photo or scan of my signature, but it is obviously there so I am not in violation of the card’s policies.

    I recently came back from a business trip to Europe. Most of the cards there have RFID chips, but my personal American card did not. Maybe for this reason, every single time I made a purchase with my personal card, the clerk saw the notation and asked to see my ID. Every single time. Back in the states, I get asked probably one in twenty times. I make a point of thanking the clerk for following my instructions when they do it.

  103. kylenalepa says:

    I’ve seen a couple of these stories on here, and I can’t understand why somebody would refuse to show ID. It’s not like they’re asking for a DNA sample or anything. I think these people refusing to show ID are just wanting to make a scene.

  104. DeltaPurser says:

    What is the main reason for somebody refusing to show their ID in conjunction with their CC purchase? Perhaps I’m somewhat naive, but I don’t see what the big deal is…

  105. Lucky225 says:

    @DeltaPurser:

    NOT EVERYONE *HAS* ID ON THEIR PERSON AT ALL TIMES, CARD NAME MAY NOT MATCH CARDHOLDERS ID (IE JUST GOT MARRIED/NAME CHANGE WAITING ON NEW CARD, AND FINALLY MERCHANT IS *NOT* ALLOWED TO REQUIRE IT IN THE FIRST PLACE!

  106. ORPat says:

    You all do know that 75-85 % of all cash registers now have cameras above them, recording every move the casher makes, and recording every piece of ID and CC numbers that cross it’s field of view.

  107. Lance Uppercut says:

    What if Visa/MC were to change their agreements and allow merchants to check ID? Would all of you that are opposed to showing ID cancel your card?

    For the record, I don’t like showing my ID either. But if the store asks I don’t make a scene about it. I show my ID and then file a complaint through MC about it later.

    Unless the cashier is writing down information off of your ID I think the risk is extremely minimal.

  108. Lucky225 says:

    @dabrown:

    Visa/MC is not going to change their policy. People have a right to make a scene, especially if they don’t have ID on them. Making a scene will peak the minds of other customers. While most of them might not care, if there is customers who care in earshot, they may research and realize that hey, this store is doing wrong.

  109. Phildawg says:

    I think stories like this are stupid and the person may know their ‘rights’, haha. It is a private business, so I guess you don’t have a ‘right’ to shop there.

    Anyways, the difficult situation here is unsigned credit cards. If a card is unsigned, which I would say is a good 20% or more based off experience in retail.

    If somebody were to steal that credit card, sign your name to it in their own writing style, use it, and then the store follows correct VISA procedure and verifies it is you by comparing the signatures on the back of the stolen card that the thief signed in his own writing… Everything will appear as okay to the store.

    However, if you then dispute the transaction, the merchant proves it was an authorized transaction by submitting the signature to VISA. VISA says this does NOT match your signature, and says it is the merchants error. Of course the merchant will say that they verified to what is on the card, and when VISA asks you if you ever signed the card, you will lie and say of course you had. When in fact you didn’t, and now the merchant has the chargeback processed and they are screwed.

    I can guarantee you one thing, any large purchase at a large retailer will require you to present ID. If you refuse, you are more than likely a thief than a consumerist, and they no longer are interested in your business. When people do not sign credit cards, and merchants are forced to ask for ID to verify this… but then the card is stolen and signed by the thief, you are making it impossible for the process to occur correctly. These situations are the root of all problems. I think all credit cards should NEVER be accepted until they are signed. However, many people will whine about this just as much.

  110. Lance Uppercut says:

    @Lucky225:

    I didn’t say they were. I asked what you would do if they did.

    I agree, you have a right to make a scene about anything you want. You also have the right to look like a fool.

  111. Lance Uppercut says:

    I should add that I have worked at Kohl’s for many years and this is not a company policy.

    This cashier was either confused about the procedure or taking it upon herself to require ID.

    The official procedure is to compare the signatures, if they match you’re on your way. If they don’t match or the card isn’t signed then you can ask for ID.

  112. Lucky225 says:

    @dabrown:

    As does the store have a right to look like a fool when they receive a letter from their Acquirer. This isn’t nazi germany, no Paper’s Please! society yet.

  113. t325 says:

    You all are worried about identity theft? Every time a cashier asks for my ID (and yes, I do let them see it because I’m not some holier-than-thou moron who’s too lazy to take out their ID) they look at it for a whole second and give it back. How the fuck are they supposed to be able to memorize all of the information on my ID in a second? And most of the time, the ID doesn’t even leave my wallet and they don’t even physically touch it, so they can’t run off and swipe it through a card reader (and if they did, I’d obviously see it and would be able to take proper steps before their shift was over and they got a chance to steal my identity).

    All of you who refuse to show ID because you’re paranoid about identity theft that is not going to happen are just making those of us behind you in line who want to pay for our shit and leave have to wait while you argue over showing your damn ID.

  114. jspeed04 says:

    You know reading stories like these just ruin the little faith that I left in humanity. I keep reading all these posts about people who are saying that they are afraid people are going to get their identities stolen by showing their ID? Give me a break.

    I work for Hollywood Video as a GSR, get payed next to nothing and am a undergrad econ student. I ask for ID EVERY time someone presents me a credit card because we run everyones card as a credit card and not as a debit card which requires one to know their own PIN. What is the problem with me asking for ID? Some on here say that I’m not trained properly really, don’t insult my intelligence. Some also say that I care about protecting the company from fraudulent purchases, while that may be the case, it also has more to do with the fact that I would want someone to check my ID every time regardless of whether or not I use a VISA card.

    Denying someone the right to ask for ID is profiling all on it’s own as you are suspecting them of being associated with groups of people who steal people’s identities as a living. That’s shady if you ask me. I’ve had people who have forgotten their ID at home and so I didn’t check it, and then I have had people who have flat out denied me the right to check their ID. You don’t know how many people have denied cards at my job, why shouldn’t I be able to make sure that they are who they say they are. When I check ID what I do is check the name on the card and make sure that it corresponds to the name on the ID. It has absolutely nothing to do with the numbers on either card.

    It’s people like this who have made proper customer service a thing of the past as there is no way to be friendly to people who are rude to you. Not everyone is trying to steal from you. Here’s a solution. when they ask for ID, YOU hold it to make sure that they can only read the name. Be suspicious of how they look at the card, how long they look at it. Don’t just assume that we want to steal from you because you work for a living too, how would you like to be treated that way.

    Lastly, Stop acting as if you’re higher than everyone else, and don’t be an asshole.

  115. Lance Uppercut says:

    When I do get asked for ID it seems to be at smaller stores. The only incidents I can remember lately are KB Toys and the Levi’s outlet store.

    I can’t remember a big box retailer ever asking me for ID. Most of the time you scan the card yourself and they don’t even look at it.

  116. carolott says:

    I own a small business and do not require my customers to show ID when they make a credit card purchase. First, it’s a violation of my merchant agreement with MasterCard and Visa, and second, I don’t operate on the assumption that everyone with a credit card is hoping to commit some kind of fraud in my establishment. I’d rather be treated like a customer and not a crook, and I assume my customers feel the same way.

  117. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    Some of us who don’t have ID, JUST WANT TO PAY TOO, so sorry if the EMPLOYEES are not abiding by the merchant rules, take it up with them, not me.

  118. Dakine says:

    @jspeed04:

    “why shouldn’t I be able to make sure that they are who they say they are”

    Because it’s in violation of your agreement, you get paid with or without it, and frankly, my information is none of your business.

    When Visa starts requiring the cashier/clerk/person-in-charge-of-completing-the-transaction to show me THEIR ID, I’ll start volunteering mine.

    Using your own logic, why shouldn’t I be able to verify the identity of the person handling my card and my information to make sure they are who THEY say they are? Why? Because it’s ridiculous and a massive invasion of your privacy. You’d never agree to it, so why should anyone else.

    This isn’t a matter of convenience for the impatient schmuck 3 people back in line. It’s about violating people’s rights which are clearly spelled out in their agreement with the card company for no good reason.

  119. Lucky225 says:

    @jspeed04:
    YOU DO NOT *HAVE* THE *RIGHT* TO ASK FOR ID, IT IS AGAINST THE MERCHANT RULES! THEREFORE YOU ARE *NOT* TRAINED PROPERLY, OR YOUR MANAGER DID NOT READ HIS MERCHANT AGREEMENT.

  120. vividblurry says:

    What is up with this weekend editor who always posts ridiculous “ASK FOR ID!!!” entries?

    Please, make it stop.

  121. Dakine says:

    @dabrown:

    “What if Visa/MC were to change their agreements and allow merchants to check ID? Would all of you that are opposed to showing ID cancel your card?”

    VISA:
    “Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder’s personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt.”

    As you can see from the first line, they DO allow merchants to see ID, however the merchant may not REQUIRE it to complete the purchase. Big difference.

  122. Lance Uppercut says:

    @Dakine:

    Okay, lets clarify my HYPOTHETICAL question.

    Lets say Visa were to change to rules and say it is okay for a merchant to refuse the sale if you don’t show ID. Would you still keep your card?

  123. Lucky225 says:

    @dabrown:

    Your hypothetical question is not and will not ever be an issue, RFID cards are out, no need for ID, never will be. If they changed their rules they’ed have to cancel RFID cards, customer activated readers, etc. They’ve invested way to much $ in this technology, therefore there’s no need to answer that question.

  124. Lance Uppercut says:

    @Lucky225:

    Just because it won’t ever happen doesn’t mean the question can’t be asked.

    I have the feeling most people would keep their card because the convenience would outweigh any fears from showing ID.

    And your comparison to Nazi Germany is nonsense. Kohl’s, Visa or any other retailer isn’t a goverment entity.

  125. wordlife says:

    That’s strange that best buy did not require you to show ID. I worked with best buy for three years and Identification was required for all credit card purchases to protect against Identity theft. As a appliance sales person at both best buy and lowes home improvement I was required to ask for ID for all credit purchases, there were numerous times when I had to deny customers based on the fact that the cardholder and the purchaser were not the same people. There was one occassion where such a denial was followed by the customer sprinting for the door. I was never once required to write down a address on any paperwork, I was just suppossed to verify that the person spending several hundred, or several thousand dollars was the person that the card belonged to.

    This kind of stuff happens all the time, rarely used credit cards are taken by family members often, and they typically return to the billfold after a purchase is made without anyone noticing. I knew people in highschool that took the liberty of using their parent’s credit cards without permission on a regular basis, and the charges weren’t noticed for weeks or months. This is the reason that many stores within the local malls require Identification with purchases or a phone call to the card holder giving permission to charge the card.

    I can understand not wanting the company to record your adress and other information on the id. What I can’t understand is the thought that somehow the pimply faced 16 year old asking to verify your ID is somehow going to try and memorize the info for some reason. We’re talking about a kid making $7 an hour, not “the terminator”.

  126. Lance Uppercut says:

    @vividblurry:

    I agree. These threads go nowhere. Just like the receipt checking threads neither side is going to change their mind.

    I’m going to try to force myself to stop reading this thread. For a while at least.

  127. Dakine says:

    @dabrown:

    5 months ago I had 15 credit cards with a combined credit ceiling of over $100,000. Since then I have cancelled all but 2 of those cards, soon to be one card, kept strictly for services which accept no other forms of payment, such as rental cars. I have also frozen my credit files so that no further inspection of my credit may be made by anyone without my approval or knowledge.

    Did my credit score take a nose dive because of this? You bet it did. Do I care? No I don’t. Credit cards are evil. But what’s more evil is nosey retailers with some fabricated version of reality in which they assume they have the right to inspect the details of my personal information in the name of “protecting me”.

    So, if they changed their agreement allowing retailers to REQUIRE my ID as a condition of making a purchase, would I cancel my card or keep it because of the “convenience”?

    Absolutely I would cancel. I cancelled most of them simply because I felt like it. Giving me a good reason to do so would only make me cancel my remaining accounts with the quickness.

    Convenience only goes so far. It would probably be convenient to allow the police to randomly search every home in the neighborhood at will to make sure there are no meth labs cooking up a new batch. That way we wouldn’t have to keep alert to such things. Just would be automatic. But I’m not about to sign on to that plan either.

  128. strwnderer says:

    This is an issue at Kohl’s. Their “loss prevention” department has instructed the stores to do this. Some stores followed, other stores pointed out that they are not allowed to require ID. Kohl’s is actually pretty good about knowing credit card terms if you speak to store management.

    The problem is you also have store management and district management (as I experienced) who are scared for their jobs and won’t do anything to potentially disrupt “loss prevention.” Still, a number of phone calls combined with violation reports has set these people straight.

    The irony as pointed out to me by the district manager was that all they need to get paid is a signature and that it seemed odd that “loss prevention” was focusing on something that didn’t even cause any monetary losses to the company.

  129. Buran says:

    @craigpress: I thank them too because I have been victimized by identity thieves and if a little extra effort would be spent making sure I am authorized to use my card, I probably wouldn’t have been victimized and wouldn’t have had to deal with bullshit. Come on people it takes all of one minute … took longer to post a whiny rant about why you shouldn’t have to flip your wallet open for 5 seconds.

  130. Phildawg says:

    @t325: Sometimes, I wonder how these people ever lived back in the days before credit cards… with checks and cash… however if they avoided showing ID for checks by paying with cash… how come paying with cash is to hard for them now?

  131. rlee says:

    @WraithSama: This is one of the ways much of Europe is ahead of the US. Waiters bring a gizmo out to table, swipe the card and punch in the security code on the spot. It spits out the slip for you to sign.

  132. MrMold says:

    Did Whinius Maximus ask for a store manager? I work retail and the rules apply to me quite stringently. Not so much for the managers. Notice Whinius did not ask for a manager. In most Kohl’s there is one within two minutes of a register.

    Either Whinius is not telling us the whole story or they are those unhappy few that find offense in everything.

    I’ve lost count of how many ‘customers’ feel entitled to tell me to cheer up or smile. If you want a friend while shopping, bring one. Treating me as a lower-caste servant will only bring about a desire to tell you your exact and inconsequential position in the social strata and the universe.

    So, for you entitled ‘nobility’ that post, try treating staff with politeness and get on with your meaningless existances.

  133. Lucky225 says:

    @Phildawg:

    It’s a cashless society now-a-days. Money is direct deposited into a bank account. If the merchant doesn’t accept debit, it’s easier just to use the card as visa/mastercard.

  134. SpenceMan01 says:

    Seriously. Just show your flippin’ ID and get over yourself.

  135. brettmeadors says:

    I always try and remember to thank the person if they ask for my ID, because often companies forget, but after seeing this, I think I am going to refuse next time they ask and see what they say :)

  136. evanchsa says:

    Again, adding “Ask for ID” on the back of your card is not “good”; does not protect against identity theft and is just bad advice.

    You are protected from fraudulent purchases and have no more than $50 in liability by law.

    I’m going keep pointing this out again and again until this “Ask for ID” nonsense stops.

  137. Lucky225 says:

    @SpenceMan01:

    A little hard to show when you don’t have it and you already ATE the merchandise as was my situation at IHOP and they tried to get me for ‘dine and dash’

    Here’s a “Seriously” for you

    Seriously, read your friggen merchant agreement and abide by it and the Merchant Rules, and you wont have confrontations with your CUSTOMERS.

  138. digitalgimpus says:

    @MelL: It’s for signature only.

    Any alterations or deviations and it’s perfectly ok to reject the card as it’s not really valid.

    Stop messing with your card and follow directions. They are very simple, honest.

  139. Lucky225 says:

    @digitalgimpus:

    Have to agree with you, especially when you WRITE over your signature. You are DEFACING THE SIGNATURE. How is the clerk supposed to know that’s your valid signature when it is defaced. I mean if some crook steals my signed card and DEFACES it and then provides his false identification in my name to complete the transaction… But I digress, at least I wouldn’t be liable for it. But seriously, if the signature is defaced the card is not valid.

  140. marsneedsrabbits says:

    Marshalls does the same thing, I discovered last week.
    I have slightly mixed feelings about it, but find it sort of hard to rally a giveadamn as they are trying to avoid being part of identify theft.

  141. FLConsumer says:

    @sisedi: Using a photo ID for credit card verification is useless. I’ve been out of high school for 10+ years, but one of our clandestine yearbook fundraisers was using the nice graphics & duplication equipment we had to make fake IDs. This was well over 10 years ago, almost 15. Even with how archaic that equipment was back then, our fake IDs looked more real than the real driver’s licenses the state issued.

    Fast forward 15 or so years to today and any joe can make a fake ID at home. Even the hologram lamination can be ahem…acquired if you try hard enough.

  142. t325 says:

    @Buran: Not to mention it takes them longer to stand there and argue with the cashier for 5 minutes.

    Seriously, it takes a few seconds to show ID. I already have my wallet out if I’m using a credit card, if they ask for ID, all I have to do is flip my wallet to the part where my drivers license is and show them. It takes just a second and I get to feel like a cool FBI agent with the whole flippy-wallet thing. Once in a blue moon, they request I take my ID out of my wallet, which takes a whole ‘nother whopping 5 seconds.

    And for those of you without an ID, isn’t it about time to get one? Get a non-drivers license ID if you don’t drive. I don’t know how you can even live in today’s society without one. Nowadays, unless you plan on spending every minute of your life at home, you pretty much need an ID.

    If you don’t want an ID, then use only cash. I also assume you never plan on buying alcohol, traveling or any of that other fun stuff.

  143. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    Actually you can fly, get on trains and buses without ID. This isn’t NAZI GERMANY, and this is the point. I shouldn’t have to spend $ to get an ID to use a credit card that doesn’t require one. Follow the rules like ANY OTHER MERCHANT and don’t piss off your customers.

  144. t325 says:

    @FLConsumer: I agree that the usefulness of asking for an ID in preventing credit card fraud is debatable, but just do the cashier (who might get in trouble if they don’t check ID) and the people waiting in line behind you a favor and show the damn ID. It won’t hurt anything.

    But agreed on how crappy real IDs look. I was flying out of Philadelphia last month (wonderful airport btw /sarcasm) and the guy at security thought my Missouri drivers license was fake at first, but after he looked at it closer, he determined it was real. Come to think of it, it seems like my ID gets closer scrutiny at any airport I go to (except STL of course, since our security guys are used to Missouri IDs). I flew back home from CLE last weekend and the guy looked it over pretty hard too (although he didn’t make any comments). I could probably throw together an ID in Photoshop and print it on a card that looks more real than our Missouri ones. And that’s why I support some of the (note, not all) parts of the Real ID act. If we can have some sort of national standard for the format and design of IDs, you won’t have people thinking that a 100% legit ID from another state is fake.

  145. SkyeBlue says:

    I really don’t have a problem with being asked for my ID when I use my credit cards. I PREFER to be asked to show mine. I have it written on the back of all my credit cards, “Ask for photo ID”. I would say about half the time, they don’t ask me, and I have brought it to their attention.

    Without showing a photo ID it could be ANYONE using your credit card.

  146. t325 says:

    @Lucky225: Every time you fly, you have to show an ID at check-in and when going through security. Unless you’re like a little kid flying with your parents. But any adult has to show their ID.

    And as a Jew who has ancestors who were killed in the Holocaust, I strongly take offense to your comparison between the US and Nazi Germany. There may be many things wrong with this country, but we’re no Nazi Germany. There’s a difference between “You don’t have an ID? Off to the gas chamber!” and “You don’t have an ID? Sorry, you can’t use your credit card”

  147. Synth3t1c says:

    I used to work at bestbuy. While I was there, at one point a manager told me that I didn’t need to look at the id’s anymore. Similarly, the computer stopped asking for the last four digits of the credit card number (something that proved that the credit card number on the card matched the magnetic strip – stops people from using reprogrammed cards – and reminding us to check it with their id by making us get the card from them). Even after that, I still asked to see ID. 99% of the time, if they said anything it would be “thank you” because I was making them feel that we wont just take any card. One time, however, someone said no – I simply said that was okay, and we weren’t supposed to do it anymore, but I rather do it like this than have someone become mad at bestbuy (or at me) for taking their stolen credit card. They understood, and still politely declined. Wasn’t a big deal. I think the Kohls employee just needs to be more educated about the credit card practices – it’s Kohls fault, not the employees imho.

  148. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    That’s a myth.

    [www.schneier.com]

    [www.cs.berkeley.edu]

    Just like most people are uninformed about needing ID with Credit Cards, they’re also uninformed about needing it to fly. It is not required for either.

  149. orlo says:

    @jspeed04 “Denying someone the right to ask for ID is profiling all on it’s own”

    I’m sorry to report that psychological profiling has flagged you for a personality disorder. You shall send your ID to the State so that you may be disallowed from purchasing a firearm. (And if you’re going to check IDs don’t just match the names, look at the picture– if they stole my wallet OF COURSE the names will match.)

    @Skyeblue “Without showing a photo ID it could be ANYONE using your credit card.”

    Please stop using ANYONE’s card. You are forcing stores to be complicit in identity theft. Think of the children of the Kohl’s executives.

  150. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    You’re right THIS *ISN’T* NAZI GERMANY, EXACTLY MY POINT, SO YOU SHOULD FEEL OFFENDED WHEN SOMEONE *ASKS* FOR YOUR ID.

  151. t325 says:

    @Lucky225: By merely invoking the phrase “Nazi Germany” you’re implying that asking someone for their ID everywhere they go is like Nazis asking people for their papers to prove they’re not Jewish.

    I’m be offended by 2 things:
    1. Showing papers to prove ethnicity to avoid execution
    2. People who compare trivial things like showing a fucking drivers license to point number 1.

    Luckily, we don’t have point number 1 anymore. Now if only we didn’t have point number 2.

  152. t325 says:

    @Lucky225: So you’d rather submit yourself to extra screening, scrutiny and hassle at the airport rather than just show a TSA employee a damn ID? What point are you trying to prove? That you’re sticking it to “the man” or that you’re just a pain in the ass that likes to inconvenience everyone else?

  153. ryanv1978 says:

    @johnva:

    where has your privacy been invaded?

    when i hand my ID to a clerk they look at it for an average of 2-3 seconds. Do you mean to tell me they are going to remember all my pertinent info in that brief time.

    Some people just like causing problems. these stories always make me laugh. Just show ID and move on with your life.

  154. ryanv1978 says:

    @Lucky225:

    thats not what we are talking about here. this person didn’t show ID over principle. not because they didn’t have it or it didn’t match.

  155. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    I’m not trying to prove anything, you’re the one who implied it was required for ‘everything else, so who cares about if you have to show it with your card’. I’m simply stating that it’s NOT required for said examples. Secondly, ID @ the airport is about as stupid as ID with a credit card. 1) terrorist purchases cheap ticket to random location. Shows ID & ticket to screener, on their marry way. 2) after screening terrorist takes out boarding pass #2 with fake name and actual location he wants to go to.

    Looking at someone’s ID does nothing but expose that person to identity theft.

  156. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    That’s exactly right, and merchant’s should respect that principal, as they are REQUIRED TO DO SO BY THE MERCHANT RULES.

  157. t325 says:

    @ryanv1978:
    No shit….if they can memorize what’s on my ID by looking at it for 2 seconds, they’re in the wrong field of work. I’m sure their memorization skills could be put to much better use as a spy for the CIA or something.

    @Lucky225: Whether or not the ID helps isn’t what we’re debating. How hard is it to just show someone your ID and make everyone happy and everyone’s life easier? And looking at someone’s ID does not expose them to identity theft. No one can memorize all that info in the 2 seconds they’re looking at your ID.

  158. ryanv1978 says:

    @Lucky225:

    your points don’t make any sense.

    you use arguments that don’t apply to the situation.

    bottom line is this for me. This person had time to waste. My time is more valuable. She had to go to another store, find the items again, and deal with everything all over, just so that someone couldn’t look at her license for 1 second.

    For me, my time is way more valuable than that.

    How does showing my ID to a clerk for 1-2 seconds expose me to identity theft?

  159. ryanv1978 says:

    I would venture to guess that most people’s computers/online transactions expose them more to identity theft then showing an ID to a store clerk.

    Identity theft is really the silliest argument i have ever heard for refusing to show ID.

  160. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Apparently you’ve never heard of photographic memory. And apparently you think it’s okay to violate a contract that you sign and inconvenience a customer despite the fact that you already agreed not to require ID when you signed up to accept credit cards at your facility.

  161. ryanv1978 says:

    @Lucky225:

    so your average store clerk has a photographic memory? LOL Furthermore…SS# isn’t listed on ID’s anymore…so are they going to steal my identity based strictly upon my mailing address?

    That’s a riot!!!

    Hey like I said…if you have time to waste…and want to make a stink over something so trivial…then go ahead and deny the ID request.

    Your concerns over showing an ID simply are not based in reality. You can say your OK by the contract….but your not OK when it comes to common sense.

    Some people just like making a scene…I guess your one.

  162. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    SS#s aren’t required for identity theft, apparently you’ve never heard of making fake IDs and passing checks. I don’t even have SS# on any of my credit card accounts. DL#s can be used to set up utilities and verify information. You’re the one not in tune with reality.

  163. ryanv1978 says:

    It’s ok…I now see what kind of person you are.

    You would rather submit to searches of your luggage at an airport rather than show ID.

    This is all i needed to know. Apparently, you have lots of time to waste. I envy that, my time is valuable.

  164. t325 says:

    @Lucky225: Photographic memory on average requires about 30 seconds of staring at whatever you’re trying to memorize, and is typically something that children have that usually does not carry on into adulthood.

    I looked at my ID for 5 seconds. First of all, 5 seconds isn’t even enough time to read the entire thing. And I still don’t know what my drivers license number is. The only information I can accurately remember is my name, address and birthdate, and I obviously don’t need my ID for that. But if it was some random person’s ID, I would not have been able to read all that information in a couple seconds, much less memorize it and be able to read it back verbatim.

    And again, I fail to see how taking the time to show your ID is more of an inconvenience than arguing with the cashier, then driving to a different store to buy your stuff.

  165. ryanv1978 says:

    Did the IHOP waitress have a photographic memory too?

    All these people with photographic memories working bottom of the barrel jobs…who knew they were all so special.

  166. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    Might not be what YOU’RE debating because you apparently think it would be easier to show the tattoo the germans put on your anscestors arm and get over it. It’s a matter of principle, you all seem to think that everyone in the US carrys ID on them, and hey screw the poor person who doesn’t have it on him, he should have just pulled one out of thin air and took the 2 seconds to show it even tho it’s not even on his person. This is why principle matters, because it’s not required and when someone REALLY doesn’t have the ID on them, oh well right?

  167. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Btw, if you tell them you don’t have ID, they move you to the front of the line for the search, so it’s actually faster. Not that you care.

  168. ryanv1978 says:

    also, there have been times when i have been buying small items, or making small purchases that I have been asked for ID. I did not have my ID, and told the clerk that. I have never been denied sale. I usually give them a look like “if i were going to be doing something fraudelent I wouldn’t be at IHOP, I would be at the Four Seasons” This would probably not work for a big ticket item, but for normal every day stuff, it should. Unless you have an attitude problem, and want to make a scene.

  169. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    As I explained previously the ID I had didn’t match the card as I had just married. But since ID isn’t required I figured I could pay for it on my credit card since they accept them. Instead nazi’s like you would rather call me a theif and have me arrested for dine-and-dash.

  170. ryanv1978 says:

    I’m not a nazi…and I do take offense to that. I never said you should be arrested, but I do think your logic is backwards.

    First and foremost you need to stop comparing someone asking you for ID to someone pushing Jews into a gas chamber, the two are not related AT ALL. If you don’t see the difference then I guess you might need a history lesson.

    and I don’t wait in line at the airport…once again, my time is valuable and I am a platinum flyer…i walk right by everyone…show my ID, and dont’ get searched. Thanks for the useless travel tip though.

    I’m pretty sure you must have had some attitude on you in IHOP. Did you flat out refuse the ID request or show it and then explain why the names didn’t match? Unless you showed it, the names not matching is a moot point because you don’t know what the IHOP employee would have done.

  171. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    There’s no need for me to show it, it’s not required. Calling me a theif because I don’t show my papers when not required seems like a nazi practice to me.

  172. ryanv1978 says:

    I’d still like to see my IHOP waitress, or my Kohls cashier memorize my info while they looked at my ID for 2 seconds.

    I would also like to see someone use my DL# to open an account. Never in my life has anyone ever asked for that info when opening an account. Are you dumb?

  173. t325 says:

    @Lucky225: If someone’s too poor to afford an ID (which are like 10-20 bucks depending on the state) what are they doing with credit cards and why are they flying somewhere? If someone is financially irresponsible and is unable to prioritize expenses, that’s not my problem and I don’t want to have to wait while they bitch and whine at the checkout or at airport security.

  174. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    no you’re dumb. I just turned on an AT&T landline without SSN & just DL# last week.

    go to [swot.sbc.com]

    enter a valid address and hit next

    You’ll see on the screen:

    Choose one option and enter:

    Social Security Number:

    Note: You do not have to provide your SSN, but it is the best way for AT&T to check/approve your credit.

    OR, Driver’s License Number:

    and State:

    OR, State-Issued ID Number:

  175. Lucky225 says:

    @t325:

    Again, take it up with the employees who refuse to obey the Merchant Rules.

    If you have a lease with your landlord and it says you can’t have pets and you bring a dog in your apartment anyway, cus ‘hey what’s the big deal.’ And your neighbors complain about a barking dog, who do your neighbors have to blame? Your landlord for letting you bring the dog in, or you for actually violating the rules. I’m not violating the rules, so if I’m taking up too much of your time when I’m behind you, maybe you should point out to the manager that hey I’m actually right instead of complaining that I’m standing up for something I believe in.

  176. Lucky225 says:

    correction: when you’re behind me*

  177. meadandale says:

    People like this are idiots.

    Don’t want to show your ID? Use CASH or STFU. God help someone like this if I ever end up in line behind them.

  178. ryanv1978 says:

    So let me get this straight. Your IHOP waitress wanted to open a phone line in your name right?

    First you didn’t show because you didn’t have too, then it was the names didn’t match, now back to you don’t have to.

    I hope not showing your ID was worth all the trouble you went through. I never called you a thief, I think you wanted to pay for you breakfast. I think if you had shown you ID, you wold have paid for your breakfast and your life would have gone on like normal.

    Instead, you wrecked your morning, and made a scene. Congratulations.

    further more…this waitress, the one with so much mental aptitude that she is serving pancakes in IHOP, she was going to memorize your DL# in a matter of second? Keep smoking buddy.

  179. Lucky225 says:

    @meadandale:

    No, obey the merchant rules or DONT TAKE CARDS. If you are a merchant displaying credit card logos and that’s all I have on me at the time, I expect that you abide by the merchant rules and that I can pay there — even if I don’t have ID on me as it’s not required. If they’re so worried about weather or not the card is mine, maybe they shouldn’t be accpeting cards in the first place.

  180. ryanv1978 says:

    why does anyone need a land line these days anyway? That’s the real question.

  181. windycitygirl68 says:

    @James Gamble: I’m with you, James. I have never been the victim of identity theft, but I have been burned twice after my purse was stolen before I realized it and my credit cards were used without someone asking for ID. It is pretty difficult for a cashier to steal your ID while you are standing there, unless they can write really fast and/or they have a photographic memory. Please, please ask for my ID when I’m making a purchase. I’m not at all offended.

  182. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Don’t twist my words buddy, I told you why I didn’t show ID, and I explained that showing it also exposes you to risk of identity theft. If you’re working to make tips, you probably can’t afford to get a phone turned on, so yes, it is a real possibility. But instead of me ASKING FOR THEIR ID and accusing THEM of being identity theives, I just simply decline to show it in the first place. And everyone seems to be contempt with the fact that REGARDLESS of the fact that can not require it, ‘you should have shown it anyways.’ I shouldn’t have to do ANYTHING if it’s not required of me. If they have a store policy requiring me to do jumping jacks to use my card, I’d be declining to do that as well, should I be called a theif simply because I refuse to do the required Jumping Jacks? Or should I just do some jumping jacks cus hey it’s morning and it’s good for me, I need the exercise?

  183. meadandale says:

    @Lucky225:

    There’s always someone on one of these thread’s that proves Godwin’s Law….

  184. ryanv1978 says:

    Hey it’s all good. Just know that when you refuse to show ID, these things can happen. Not everyone at a cash register is familiar with the merchant contract, and they are only trying to protect your money by asking for ID.

    Like i said….you must have tons of time to waste…so go right ahead and waste it.

    I won’t twist your words, but you are the one comparing asking for an ID to killing millions of people. if that doesn’t undermine your credibilty and common sense then i don’t know what will.

  185. ryanv1978 says:

    How do jumping jacks have anything to do with a purchase. I can see where ID has something to do with it. You make silly points…your not very bright.

  186. Lucky225 says:

    I’m comparing asking for ID to a fascist practice that was practiced in Nazi Germany (compulsory identification without need.)

  187. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    No you’re not very bright, Requiring ID, Requiring a person to do jumping jacks, Requiring someone to raise there hand and take an oath that a credit card is actually theres.. Any additional practice NOT REQUIRED to complete the transaction, consumers should not feel compelled to do.

  188. ryanv1978 says:

    your comparing two things that have noting to do with each other.

  189. ryanv1978 says:

    The ID is related to the transaction…the jumping jack is not. You can’t expect every cashier to be familiar with the merchant contract, so when they ask you for ID, just show it. They are only trying to protect you and your money.

    further more…go buy WWII for dumbies and ready it. If you think you were treated like a WWII era Jew in Germany you need an education.

  190. Lucky225 says:

    I can expect every cashier to be familiar with the merchant contract.

    Master Card Merchant Rules
    7.1.6 Card Acceptance Requirements

    Each Acquirer must ensure that:

    f. a Merchant does not refuse to complete a Transaction solely because a Cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a
    Card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information,
    except as specifically permitted or required by the Rules;

    The above means that the bank who the merchant has the contract with must inform the merchant that they can not refuse a transaction solely because I don’t provide ID. Therefore the Merchant should know these rules, and train there employees accordingly. When I ask for the manager and he’s still clueless, there is an obvious breach of contract.

  191. jnkdaniel says:

    Remember the VISA commercial with Jerry Sienfied?

    No ID REQUIRED!

  192. Lucky225 says:

    @jnkdaniel:

    Perfect example^

  193. ryanv1978 says:

    You can have that expectation, and you can also expect to run into the situation you did at IHOP.

    I really don’t know what it is your trying to prove. By the letter of the contract your correct, I give you that.

    But by common sense your way off base. There is no way that showing your ID at a register exposes to you to ID theft.

    Do you make any purchases online? I sure hope not.

  194. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978: @ryanv1978:

    Yes I make purchases online that go to a drop spot. The only thing recorded would be my card #, which has 0% fraud liability, and has been stolen twice and replaced twice with no problems.

  195. ryanv1978 says:

    Keep living in your dream world.

    I’m done arguing with this fool.

    Be prepared for many more foolish breakfasts if this is your policy.

    You ship to a drop spot…how much time do you have to waste? Clearly you don’t have a whole lot going on.

  196. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    it’s not my policy, it’s MasterCards.

  197. ryanv1978 says:

    It’s your policy to not make things easy.

    It’s your policy to be a pain and not show ID, even though you really don’t have too. That is YOUR decision. YOU made that decision, NO ONE ELSE.

    I know that I don’t HAVE to show ID, but I do when asked cause it doesn’t harm em to show and isn’t worth the pain in the ass to argue with a minimum wage employee.

    Those are all your decesions. Be accountable for yourself.

  198. blonderengel says:

    I have a credit card to buy stuff/services with.

    I have a driver’s license to drive a car.

    It’s not a permit that allows me to make purchases via credit card.

    If a merchant wants to turn it into that, I find a different merchant.

  199. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    The store signed the merchant agreement, they need to be held accountable to it.

  200. welsey says:

    Kohls is always really strict about using credit cards. My parents used to send me and my brothers out for back-to-school shopping with their credit card to pay for all of it, and we never had any problems anywhere except for Kohls – where they checked IDs and wouldn’t let us use the card as a result. Fair enough, really, since the names didn’t match, but they are the only place that bothered to do this.

  201. Lucky225 says:

    @welsey:

    They could have just as easily checked your parents signature against the one on the receipt and saw that it wasn’t your parents — or your parents could have just as easily got you a card as an authorized user, which as you were doing this during school season you probably didn’t have ID to match the name even if they DID give you an authorized card, which should even further let you know why checking for ID is not good.

  202. ryanv1978 says:

    well you keep fighting that war!

    Clearly it was a war worth fighting with IHOP.

    IHOP must take you real serious…because they responded to you right? Oh wait….then again….it’s probably worth it to keep litagous hungry people out of their places of business. Your the same guy that would spill hot coffee on himself and then complain it’s hot.

  203. rg says:

    What a whiney beeyatch! Are you afraid to show your ID? Wouldn’t you rather them ask to see an ID than to just assume you’re using your card? What if it was someone else using your card?
    As far as writing Ask For ID on your card, that is actually in violation of Visa’s contract and they can in fact deny reimbursement to you! That’s right kiddies! When you get a new card, it tells you explicitly to sign the back immediately. It also says that in the accompanying paper work. There is no downside to signing the back of your card, you do what they tell you to do and there is then no recourse for them but to deny a claim from you. There is absolutely NO upside to writing Ask For ID on your card.

  204. rg says:

    .

  205. DomZ says:

    Consumerist – please don’t promote behavior like this. I WANT places to check my ID when I’m using my credit card. I don’t understand why people feel compelled to pick fights over minimal things like this. The “don’t check my ID” and “don’t you dare ask to see my receipt” people should form a cult.

  206. Lucky225 says:

    @rg:

    if it’s not me, I’m not liable, period. I’d rather them abide by the contract they signed.

  207. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Actually I have got in touch with the regional manager,but like you, she refuses to even read the Merchant Rules or the fine print in her own contract. Visa and MasterCard will be contacting her soon.

  208. ryanv1978 says:

    The cashier didn’t sing a contract…and i bet they never even saw the contract.

  209. ryanv1978 says:

    @DomZ:

    I agree Domz…..this type of behavior should not be promoted here…it’s not what this website stands for.

  210. Lucky225 says:

    @DomZ:

    You wouldn’t be liable even if someone else used your card. You should want them to compare the actual signatures and use a UV light to make sure the card’s not counterfeit. If you think this isn’t secure enough and you’re too lazy to call your card issuer and file a fraud complaint, then don’t use credit cards, get non CC-branded debit cards that require your pin.

  211. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    It *IS* what this website stands for, PRO-consumer, not PRO-merchants who violate RULES that don’t favor the consumer.

  212. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    That’s why management is supposed to make sure their cashiers don’t violate the contracts. When you ask for a manager and he’s also clueless — wait, you’re the one that’s clueless, same circular argument for the last 4 hours on a Sunday. You’re right *I*’m the one wasting my time by pointing out that breaking the rules = not right and your circular response that it’s fine. I guess it’s fine if Parent-Taught Driver program in Texas gets abused by Parent’s not properly informing their children about traffic laws and showing them how to drive, after all they didn’t know.

  213. cametall says:

    When I worked retail I wouldn’t take a person’s card without ID. If they whined I got a manager. The manager wouldn’t accept the card either unless they showed ID.

    I can understand a person getting uptight if I write their info down, but Jesus Christ what does it matter if I want to make sure you are the owner of the card?

    If someone had stolen your card and used it then you’d complain to the store and credit card company that I didn’t check ID and the store would lose the sale.

    I liked getting customers that wouldn’t give up their ID. I got satisfaction knowing they’re pissed and walking out without their product they wanted.

  214. ryanv1978 says:

    I guarantee you that nothing changes at IHOP, so what did you accomplish?

    I’ll read the agreement, I know what it says. I said you were right by the contract.

    But there are rules, and there is common sense. Common sense you lack obviously. There was no danger in you flashing your ID for the IHOP worker. NONE. Start using some common sense, it goes a long way.

  215. Lucky225 says:

    @cametall:

    MasterCard rules:

    COMPARE SIGNATURE. That’s all required to make sure it’s “me.” Here we go again, supporting merchants who break the rules instead of just running the transaction through like they’re supposed to, and it’s the consumer’s fault that he wants you to follow the rules.

  216. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:
    Common Sense would dictate not to be in breach of contracts that you sign. Common Sense tells me when I want to use my card at a merchant that displays Credit Card logos, I can use it without ID because, AGAIN, it’s not required. With your logic, common sense would dictate that sometimes people change lanes without signalling, that doesn’t mean I’m going to change my driving habits because the person next to me might unexpectedly change lanes into mine when there is no indication whatsoever. If they don’t signal and they sideswipe me, it’s not my responsibility because “I should have known he was going to change lanes without a blinker”. Same thing here, “I should have known they might ask for ID, therefore I should have it or know not to use my card when I enter this restraunt.” Most people abide by the rules, I don’t assume every place I go to is going to break the rules.

  217. ryanv1978 says:

    breaking rules of the road puts other people at danger.

    you showing your ID put no one in danger.

    this comparison thing you try really isn’t your strong point. Your not a WWII era Jew.

    Keep fighting the pointless fight. Are you going to refuse ID every time someone asks? You must really like waisting your own time or protect you from the photographic memory of an IHOP employee.

    and I am far from clueless, your the one who has no idea how the world works. You think everyone is out to get you apparently, what a crappy way to go through life.

  218. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    You’re the one who has better things to do then argue with someone who’s right because they should know how “the world works”, when in deed I do know since I actually read the rules and didn’t disobey them. You seem to go through life thinking a merchant who wrongs you is fine because it’s “easier.” It would be easier if everyone abided by the rules, that’s what RULES are set up for, to abide, not to break and then force customers to show ID because you’re breaking the rules and not let the customer’s have a say, b/c they should know it’s easier to just ‘shut up.’

  219. ryanv1978 says:

    You had your ID on you. It wasn’t a matter of not having it so why do you keep saying that? YOU HAD YOUR ID. Stop referencing a scenario where you didn’t have an ID>

    I bet you have been waiting for someone to ask you for ID for months, just so you could make a scene. It’s clear you like attention.

    If you didn’t have it, and all this happened, then you would have a point. But you DID have it, and you refused to show it just to be a pain.

    Clearly your wife is the one with the smarts in the marriage. She should have let you be arrested, maybe then you would know the difference between a battle worth fighting and one not worth it.

  220. MikeGrenade says:

    @chrispiss: You have it right. You can’t expect an employee who’s paid minimum wage and given a whole two hours of training to be well versed on credit card policies.

  221. turri40 says:

    QUESTION:

    What is the case with Mastercard?

    CanadaPost “DEMANDS” to see ID NO MATTER WHAT.

    What the case with that?

  222. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Again, you’re the one who has better things to do then argue with a cashier, yet spent the last 4 hours arguing with me. Again, ID didn’t match, so it was basically the same thing as not having the ID. Whether or not I had ID on me is not the point, since I’m not required to show it in the first place and they’re not required to have it to complete the transaction. You’re obviously clueless if you can’t understand something as simple as ‘you don’t have to show it, not showing it does not = right to arrest regardless of weather or not you have it.’ IF they were trained properly in the first place the entire incident would have been avoided altogether.

  223. ryanv1978 says:

    hey man it’s sunday night, and I am on the road for work. I’m in my hotel and really don’t have a lot to do. Your complete stupidity has entertained me tonight though…I will admit that.

    When i boarded my flight today, I showed my ID too. I’ll do the same later this week when i fly back home. Come to think of it I did the same when I checked into my hotel. Were all those people trying to steal my identity? Did they all have photographic memories?

    expecting a minimum wage employee to be versed in CC contract verbage is a joke. You wanted to play hot shot and make someone feel dumb because “you know the rules”. I can only imagine the tone you took with this whole thing, and I am willing to bet your tone is what made the manager threaten the cops.

    You have no idea if the ID not matching is the same as not showing because you didn’t show the non matching ID. I am quite sure that your first name didnt change with marriage…so you explaining to the cashier that your newlyweds…then he/she congratulates you on your nuptials and processes the charge for your white trash breakfast. That’s exactly what would have happened had you just shown the ID

    Instead you embarrassed your wife over a matter of semantics….good job…my guess is your marriage won’t last long.

  224. ryanv1978 says:

    I’m going to bed….I have an OR case scheduled for 7 AM.

    Keep fighting worthless battles….I see people like you all the time and then i remember why it’s so easy to get ahead in the world…it’s filled with people like you who have ZERO common sense.

    Street smarts will pay more dividends for me than anything…you should get a lesson.

  225. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    You’re stupidity has entertained me as well. Especially how you can use a word like semantics and not even know what it means. Expecting an employee who takes credit cards to know the rules is not a joke, it’s simple semantics — Manager says don’t require ID, Employee doesn’t require it. End of story. I don’t need to know if ID not matching is going to be a problem, because I didn’t plan on showing it — at all, because I knew it was not required. Using your “Logic & Semantics” complying with their ID policy could have meant more trouble for me since they ask for it to compare names, and duh, the names don’t match. But hey, I know they’re not going to ask for ID, because they take CREDIT CARD. The manager should have used some logic and semantics to know that $24 breakfast wasn’t worth enforcing a policy that was in breach of contract to begin with.

  226. ryanv1978 says:

    you could have shown ID and avoided the whole thing, but you choose to embarrass yourself and your new bride. I hope it was worth it.

    GOOD CHOICE, GOOD NIGHT.

  227. ryanv1978 says:

    and I’ll say one more thing….I have never been threatened to have the cops called on me in an IHOP or any other establishment ever.

    I show my ID whenever asked and have never had my identity stolen.

    Keep trying to make some waitress feel inferior. You must have been picked as a child…..how did you find a woman to marry you? She must wear the pants…wait she paid for breakfast…of course she does.

    Rooty Tooty fresh and fruity on the wife!

  228. Lucky225 says:

    Actually if you read the article numnuts, she used the AUTHORIZED card I gave her with the SAME ACCOUNT NUMBER.

    I shouldn’t have to show ID, the whole thing could have been avoided if they followed the rules that were given to them when they began to accept credit cards.

  229. ryanv1978 says:

    it also said you embarrassed her……hope it was worth it.

    someone has to have some common sense….at least she does. Your screwed when she leaves you.

  230. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Negative, IHOP embarrassed her, she filed the complaint with me on the phone. This is why people can’t just use their credit cards like credit cards, because YOU would rather argue with the cardholder then process the transaction like you’re supposed to and blame the customer for being wrong.

  231. Lucky225 says:

    I’ve heard enough rhetoric for tonight. Tired of going in circles with someone who can’t understand why a consumer would stick up for his rights. Peace.

  232. Javert says:

    @humphrmi: Followed your link and it is wrong. I live in MA and they do not use your SS for your DL. How outdated is your source material? If that is wrong, how can the other information be trusted? I see no issue in showing my ID if requested with a CC purchase. Sure you have a right to privace but the store also should have the right to refuse service.

  233. drdom says:

    It’s a free country. If you don’t like a particular merchant’s policies, such as asking for ID to attempt to combat credit card fraud or identity theft, don’t shop there.
    But if you’re legitimately using a credit card, what’s the big deal about showing an ID? The sales clerks didn’t make up this policy on their own. They’re just doing their job.
    And let’s face it, most retail clerks are not handwriting experts, so checking signatures is not nearly as effective as checking a photo ID. They’re protecting both you and themselves. Just like you have the right to refuse to show them ID, they have the legal right in most states to refuse service to you, regardless of the contractual agreement between the card issuer and the merchant. The issuer, not the user of the card is the one who has recourse, if any.
    If you feel strongly enough to refuse, in order to make your point, you’re free to do so. And, the merchant has the right, and the duty to their stockholders to combat losses. If this is your biggest problem, or if this is an issue of such magnitude to you, you live a charmed life. I am unable to understand how anyone is harmed by showing ID.

  234. Dakine says:

    The point here is not photographic memory ability, nor the poor poor bastard in line that is so impatient he’s ready to piss himself, nor the average length of time measured in seconds it takes to show an ID. “Common sense” is a pretty loose term. So that’s a pointless argument.

    The point is, the merchant agreement specifically states that retailers may NOT require an ID to complete the transaction. Plain and simple. I know, I know… you got “better things to do”, and your “time is valuable”, and all that. Whatever.

    Retailers like Kohls are violating their agreement, customers rights, and anything resemblng good business practices by making up so-called “rules” that have no merit.

    If you’re one of the people crying “Just show it and move on, it only takes a second”, I’d like to know where YOUR line is. At what point will YOU be saying enough is enough? When they start doing retina scans? X-rays? Fingerprinting? Maybe when they start requiring you verify your identity with certified dental records?

    Why wait until we get to the checkout to start scrutinizing? How about if they start verifying your identity before you are even allowed into their store? Perhaps everyone should have to take a US citizenship test before they are allowed to buy groceries?

    There’s no problem with any of that right? Because if you’re not hiding anything you should freely accept ANY requirement these retailers spontaneously decide to start inventing…. right?

    I don’t know if I’d compare it to Nazi Germany, but it does remind me very much of the military. In the military you have no such rights. You are cattle. You are property of the US Government. And you do what they say. There is no choice.

    So until we fall under martial law out here in civilian land, these retailers, and the sheep who feel that boot-licking is acceptable can all go fuck themselves.

    My info is NOT your business. I don’t care if you have a photographic memory, a card reader in your pocket, a vidcam under your shirt, or just a lousy disposition. It’s still none of your damn business.

    Learn it. Know it. Live it.

  235. jspeed04 says:

    @Dakine:

    I wear a name and I know most of my customers.

  236. jspeed04 says:

    @orlo:
    well duh I look at their fucking face…

  237. jspeed04 says:

    @Lucky225:

    Thank god you are only one person, I’d hate to have you as a customer!

  238. johnva says:

    @Javert: The stores do have the right to refuse service, but they have agreed to waive their right to do that for this specific reason by signing their merchant agreements.

  239. theglassrat says:

    While the customer is right, VISA really should change that card agreement. Credit card fraud is a huge problem for retailers (and extremely pro-consumer policies makes it so that AMEX is not as widely accepted as the other two, for example).

    In Spain, where I have previously lived, it is commonplace for people to show their ID with a credit card purchase – in fact, it’s the norm.

    It’s how you stop at least one form of ID theft. At the very least, put a photo on the card itself.

  240. banmojo says:

    @vasquire32: Geebus pucking christmas, finally someone with some sense!! I can’t believe how many people here have a problem with a cashier demanding to check your picture id to verify that you are using YOUR visa, and you’re NOT a criminal using someone ELSE’S visa!! Furthermore, I can’t believe that Visa actually has a policy that states that cashiers DON’T have the right to demand picture id. Absurd. If ALL cashiers demanded picture id there would BE a stern dropoff in illegal visa purchases. Absurd. IMFO.

  241. Dakine says:

    @banmojo:

    How long do you think it takes to peel up the laminate on a drivers license, (or a mass-produced fake one) insert photo of self, stuff in wallet behind plastic cover, and flash at the store using YOUR credit card, “see, it’s me.”

    About a minute of a crook’s time.

    Checking ID is useless. It causes more harm than good.

  242. StevenJohn says:

    Always remember a stolen credit card is the fault of the merchant. Visa does not absorb the loss, the merchant does.

  243. ksherer says:

    How is a cashier going to remember any valuable information that appears on your ID if they only look at it for 2 seconds? I check IDs because I care, not because I want to steal your identity. I WISH I could require IDs for all credit card transactions, but company policy says I can’t. All of my credit cards are signed because they are invalid if they aren’t. I’m a student and I don’t have a lot of money, so even if someone stole my card and only spent $30, that’s a lot of money to me. If you really think that a sales associate is going to steal your information by quickly glancing at your ID, you should REALLY stop using your credit card, period. We have your credit card a lot longer than we have your ID. Some stores print out 2 receipts, one for you and one for the store, and usually the store copy has your full credit card number. Not only that, but a lot of places use manual “chompers” to imprint your card. When we check ID, we’re checking the face, signature, and name. Just for fun, I check the birthday, because if it’s recent, I say something like “Happy late Birthday! I’m sorry I missed it. Next year I won’t forget,” to a complete stranger, and it makes them smile.

    The only people that have ever gotten irritated when I required ID are foreigners, people who have forgotten their ID, and people who have a picture one their card, but no signature. I then remind them that the Credit Card companies require signature verification, not photo verification, and if they have a problem, make a suggestion to their credit card company. More people are aggravated that I DON’T require or request IDs. I work at a high end store, and when someone is spending upwards of $4000, I still can’t even REQUEST an ID. Some people ask me why I didn’t check their ID for such a large purchase, and I say that it’s part of the credit card agreement. They then say it’s irresponsible on our part for not having more protection for our customers. See? Stores can’t win.

    Do you all even know WHY credit card companies make it against the rules to request IDs? If the card IS in fact stolen, the credit card company is no longer liable since no ID verification was made at the store. They do it to screw the store! Your ID has NOTHING ON IT THAT CAN FACILITATE IDENTITY THEFT, especially if it’s only being glanced at for 2 seconds. This Kohl’s associate was trying to inconvenience you or steal your identity, she was trying to protect you.

    So remember…
    1. Having a picture on your card but no signature is pointless: Signature verification is always required, and pictures don’t matter.
    2. An unsigned card is invalid, and I won’t take it.
    3. Writing “See ID” and also having your signature on the back of your card is dumb. I CAN’T ask for your ID if it’s signed.

  244. Uriel says:

    unless she ran the car through to begin the charge/debit process, you weren’t required to hand her your card either. Being that the card is your property, that is considered a search, and if you handed it to her with no qualms, that is considered a willing/voluntary search.

  245. vision4bg says:

    Carey, I know you love the idea of writing “Ask for ID” on the back of your credit card, and I know you think you’re very clever for it, and so doubly so I *know* you’re very sad that it’s specifically disallowed in the merchant rules, hence all your posts about why it’s good and other people suck for saying it’s bad, but honestly, please stop going on about it.

  246. StevenJohn says:

    Check this out:

    [www.bankofamerica.com]

    Bank of America Rules for the merchant……

    “Verify signature
    Always verify that the signature on the back of the card is reasonably similar to the signature on the sales draft and that the spelling is identical. If suspicious, ask for an ID and verify the signature on the ID to the signature on the credit card.

    Let’s repeat the important statement:

    IF SUSPICIOUS ASK FOR AN ID AND VERIFTY THE SIGNATURE ON THE ID TO THE SIGNATURE ON THE CREDIT CARD.

    Bottom line, a company if entitled to ask for ID as part of their loss prevention program. If a merchant wants to treat EVERY credit card transaction as suspicious there is nothing in the Bank of America merchant agreement that says different.

    BTW, Visa rules say that “Your Merchant Agreement and Visa USA operating regulations” take precedent over those published rules that everybody loves to quote.

    Bank of America Merchant Agreement says the Merchant can require ID.

  247. Dakine says:

    @StevenJohn:

    “Always remember a stolen credit card is the fault of the merchant. Visa does not absorb the loss, the merchant does.”

    That is simply false.

    Merchant accounts are based on a chargeback percentage system. When you as a merchant exceed your percentage, your rates go up. This is why it’s always in the best interest of the merchant to issue a refund immediately when a customer makes a claim to them about a fraudulent charge. If the credit card company gets involved, it goes towards the merchant’s chargeback percentage. If a refund is issued by the merchant instead, their chargeback percentage is spared the hit.

    Consumers & merchants are both protected. If merchants took the hit for every bad transaction out there, no one would use the credit system. So yes, Visa, Mastercard, and the rest of them absorb those costs. It’s the cost of doing business. And they more than make up for it in merchant fees, transaction fees, and extortionist interest rates.

  248. Dakine says:

    @StevenJohn:

    “Let’s repeat the important statement:

    IF SUSPICIOUS ASK FOR AN ID AND VERIFTY THE SIGNATURE ON THE ID TO THE SIGNATURE ON THE CREDIT CARD.”

    Bank of America is not Visa. Bank of America doesn’t make the rules. Visa does.

  249. scootinger says:

    Has anyone had a store ask to WRITE DOWN your driver’s license number as a condition of using a credit card? There was a store (Audio Plus in Edmond, OK) that did that to me. I was just buying a $25 part (a headunit dashboard adapter kit for my car) that did just that. The guy ran my card, asked to see my ID, and said he had to write down my DL number, to which I said “no way” and he said he couldn’t sell the item to me, and had to do a refund. I usually don’t make a big deal of stores that ask to see my ID when using my CC (unless it’s the shitty 7-11’s around here that want ID with a $1 purchase), but that’s just ridiculous. If anyone here happens to be from the OKC area stay away from Audio Plus!

  250. StevenJohn says:

    [usa.visa.com]

    Visa operating regulations are not available to the public.

  251. StevenJohn says:

    @Dakine:

    Merchant takes the hit. Customer crys fraud…. Merchant refunds the $ out of the merchants $.

    Or the merchant disputes the claim and the merchant’s rates go up.

    Either way, merchant is screwed.

  252. StevenJohn says:

    @Dakine:

    No, Visa makes the rules for Merchant Banks. Merchant Banks, such as Bank of America, make the rules for the merchants accepting the cards.

    Hence Visa says “call your bank” when you are crying about a violation of Visa rules. Your bank and my Merchant Bank can fit it out. Of course if your bank is my Merchant Bank you already know who is going to win that battle.

  253. Dakine says:

    Why you people are so willing to give away your rights is totally beyond me.

    Isn’t “Homeland Security” & the “Patriot Act” enough already? Will you not be happy until we are fully converted to the new Soviet Union? (we’re pretty close already btw)

    I just don’t understand this mentality that people walk around with in their heads that tells them, “Hmmm, well, if Walmart thinks it’s a good idea then it must be so.”

    Are you just too lazy to think for yourselves? Prefer corporate policy to dictate what you do, what you have, how you act, where you go, who you report to, etc…. ?

    What happened to this country? 30 years ago this kind of thing would have been cause for mass demonstrations in the street. Today we gladly bend over and allow every single right we have to be stripped from us, without so much as a single word of opposition.

    We have GIVEN away ourselves. The government & corporate Amerika decide what’s best for us now. And god help you if you should complain about it, because that constitutes “suspicious behavior” and will likely get you locked up until it’s sorted out at the least.

    We’ve sold out in the name of convenience. I want it now and I want it fast and I’ll do anything you say just to speed that up a little more.

    We’re not too far away from calling it what it is: Slavery.

  254. Dakine says:

    In my ID photo, which is several years old, I have long hair and a full beard and was wearing prescription glasses. Today I am clean shaven and shaved head and have had Lasik, so no more glasses.

    So when a clerk looks at my ID and makes an attempt to match it to my face, it’s nearly impossible. Do you suggest they hire a sketch artist to draw a rendering of various stages of facial hair growth and profiles like the FBI does?

    How are they going to verify anything without one?

  255. Dakine says:

    oh, and I was also 40 lbs heavier in the photo than I am today as well.

  256. Dakine says:

    A friend of mine “Bob” back in another state I used to live in has undergone a complete sex change and is now legally a woman. His/her ID still has a photo of him as a man.

    Now what?

  257. Dakine says:

    What if i decided to go shopping wearing full Halloween makeup? How would they ever know if it was me? There’s no law against wearing makeup. Goth kids do it every day.

  258. scoosdad says:

    @Javert:

    Followed your link and it is wrong. I live in MA and they do not use your SS for your DL.

    While it’s true that MA does not put your SSN on the card they give you as a driver’s license any more, they can still require you to provide it when you apply for a license:

    [www.mass.gov]

    That document also states that Federal law has prohibited states from using an SSN as a license number since 2005, and there’s some interesting info in there about what states can and cannot do with an SSN in regards to driver’s licenses. States are grandfathered and allowed to collect an SSN if they were using it prior to the passage of the federal Privacy Act of 1974.

  259. Dakine says:

    Point is, not everyone looks like the photo in their ID. This makes checking IDs useless. And in my state, you are able to go 8 years between drivers license renewals. That’s a long time for people to change and/or adjust their appearance.

    Since my last photo, I have fully tattooed my neck and parts of my face. It’s not on my ID. Does that make me a criminal? Probably in the eyes of Kohls or Walmart it would.

  260. scoosdad says:

    Is it such a revolutionary idea to think that maybe credit cards could offer to have an optional photo of the cardholder on it, should the cardholder want to put it there in the first place? Cashiers could glance at the card, glance at the presenter, and know right away if there’s a problem to check into. Sure would make the theft of the physical card itself less attractive.

    I know you can get a credit card with a picture of your dog or cat on them, so why not put a picture of yourself on it instead of Rover? Costco, BJs, Sams etc have had the member’s picture on their cards forever. But there’s got to be a downside to this, right? Fire away…

  261. Dakine says:

    @scoosdad:

    “But there’s got to be a downside to this, right? Fire away…”

    I personally think it’s a fantastic idea. I recently switched banks (personal banking) and they offer this option for your debit cards. I took them up on it. Now there is absolutely no excuse for any retailer to ever ask to see my drivers license when I use these cards.

    The credit card companies seem to still be behind the curve on that though.

    I don’t really see a downside to it. It makes it an all-in-one package. Card for payment, signature on the back, built in photo, no other personal info exchanged. Win/win.

  262. bossco says:

    I have no problem with showing my ID when using a card or check. I do have a problem with a cashier writing down any information from my ID. I can’t see where a 15 second peak at my picture is going to cause ID theft.

  263. Nicholas_schaulsohn says:

    “It was at this point I realized I was dealing with someone who through her persistent need to argue with me has no interest in customer service “

    I think the only person with a persistent need to argue is you, just show your dam id and avoid a dumb confrontation.

  264. slowenuff says:

    Dakine you and I and anyone who lives in this country dont have a right to anything. We have temporary illusions that can be taken away at anytime for no reason at all. These days the bill of rights or constitution can be changed or even ignored depending on if a whether or not a high school kid shoots his class or fundamentalists kill thousands.

  265. slowenuff says:

    And to Lucky wow….just wow. This website in my oppinion is for those customers that have had some great injustice done to them. Not some mild inconvenience.

  266. SayAhh says:

    While I’ve never turned down a “request” for ID, I think fraud isn’t what these people have in mind when they’re asking for your ID. It’s not as if the money will come out of their pockets if it turns out the card used was stolen, as is the case with many retail establishments, e.g., the post office.

    Anyway, I haven’t gone into a Kohls in years, and I’m only going to Wal-Mart about once a month–especially after I’ve started seeing the people with highlighters at the exits AT ALL TIMES, a la Costco, which NEVER checks my ID because I use Costco-branded American Express cards with my picture on it. God, I miss FEDCO, but I digress :)

    Oh yeah, if you think Kohls violating Visa’s Merchant Agreement is bad, then you must REALLY HATE the Bush Administration violating EVERYBODY’s privacy rights by illegally wiretapping. Now I’m TRULY digressing… lol

  267. farker says:

    @James Gamble:
    Right. Because if the store had asked her to strip to her underwear, in order to validate her identity by her blemishes, that would have been TOTALLY reasonable! And seriously, she should’ve done it right away, without even thinking about it! We need more Consumerists like you buddy!

    @BugMeNot2:
    Kudos to you sir/madam (Seriously!) And I love your handle, that website is awesome.

    @edrebber:
    [www.bbbonline.org]
    Define a large percentage…I don’t see anything in this BBB report about “cashiers viewing your ID” as a source of identity theft.

  268. Dakine says:

    @slowenuff:

    “We have temporary illusions that can be taken away at anytime for no reason at all.”

    I know. It has happened to me first hand in a violent way.

    And that’s why I refuse to comply with absurd demands from minimum wage receipt checkers and ultimatums from cashiers to see my ID or else. I will defend what I have left within the limits of the law as is my “current” right.

    Out here, our illustrious governor was bought & paid for by a private corporation to skirt a 30 year iron-clad environmental law. And the end result is, surfers who have used an area for recreation for generations are now branded as terrorists under Homeland Security for doing the same thing they have always done: surfing. Because this private corporation now has full Coast Guard escort and heavy police protection on a daily basis, provided to them illegally in the face of a state supreme court decision.

    Oh yeah…. i know how much the world sucks.

    So why give away any more? They’re doing a good enough job of stripping us of any rights we once had without us helping them.

  269. Dakine says:

    The Bush Administration….

    now there’s the definition of corruption at its finest.

  270. Dakine says:

    When the Real ID comes into effect, the branding will be complete. Why are they even bothering to pretend with a national ID card? Just line us all up and start implanting a microchip into our necks like dogs.

    You are already no longer an individual. You are a Fico score. Your score determines your worthiness to society. Go to your job every day, send the government half your income, spend money you don’t have so we can keep the economy going, and don’t complain. Be a “good citizen”.

    It’s for your own good.

  271. dragonfire81 says:

    This could well the most commented on consumerist post ever.

  272. Coolmatt49 says:

    To tell you the truth, I would be grateful if a merchant was to ask for my I.D.. What it shows is that they are fighting against credit card fraud by proving that the card is mine and that I didn’t just forge someone else’s signature. Regardless of how secure the credit card might be.

    Although, technically, the clerk did not have to check for I.D., I still felt that it would be more secure if the person did.

    I can see this same person having their card stolen and then having the person complaining to the stores, “Why didn’t you check for an I.D.!?”

  273. LUV2CattleCall says:

    Interesting…. lately, at Wal-Mart, the little green-o-chrome display says “Compare ID” or something along those lines.

  274. Astos says:

    It is poor customer service but one advantage is it makes credit card fraud harder to commit.

    What is actually wrong with showing ID when using a credit card??? You have to show ID for things like buying alcohol, cigarettes and going to bars.

    Astos Green lasers rulz

  275. Lucky225 says:

    @drdom:

    It’s a little hard like when I was at IHOP and already ate the food to ‘not’ use that merchant, esp when I’m under the assumption they will operate under their contractual agreements.

  276. Lucky225 says:

    @Dakine:
    amen

  277. Lucky225 says:

    @jspeed04:

    I’m not the only person that feels this way, that’s the reason these merchant rules are there in the first place.

  278. Lucky225 says:

    @theglassrat:

    Counterfeit Card fraud accounts for most of all in-person transactions. The name embossed on the card or wrote on the strip at that point can be any name. Checking ID against a counterfeit card with the same name that’s on the ID isn’t going to prevent any CC fraud.

  279. Lucky225 says:

    @banmojo:

    Wrong. Again, Counterfeit Card fraud accounts for most of all in person transactions. If you’re worried about card fraud, check the card for hologram and put it under UV light to make sure the card is real. If it’s a legit card 98% of the time it’s not going to be fraud. And I’m highly offended that because I wish to protect MY privacy, you seem to think like IHOP that I’m a criminal since I’m not showing my ID to you when you’re not allowed to require it in the first place.

  280. Lucky225 says:

    @StevenJohn:
    Exactly, so if the merchant can’t stand the heat they need to get out of the kitchen. Meaning if they can’t abide by the rules because of “fraud”, maybe they shouldn’t be accepting credit cards. IHOP continually cited fraud as the reason they continue to ask for ID, that they’ve had several fraud transactions in the last few months. Well guess what, they had the ID policy for the last few months as well, doesn’t look like that policy is working if you continue to get fraud right?

  281. Lucky225 says:

    @ksherer:

    if your card company won’t refund $30, you need to switch banks.

  282. Lucky225 says:

    @StevenJohn:

    If that’s the case the Acquirer is in violation of the agreement with Visa / Mastercard:

    Master Card Merchant Rules
    7.1.6 Card Acceptance Requirements

    Each Acquirer must ensure that:

    f. a Merchant does not refuse to complete a Transaction solely because a
    Cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a
    Card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information,
    except as specifically permitted or required by the Rules;

    They can not deny the transaction SOLELY because a cardholder refuses to provide identification. If Bank of America is really allowing the merchant to verify ID on EVERY card transaction and denying people the use of their card SOLELY because they refuse to provide it. Then BofA is at fault(gee, IMAGINE that.) But that is just an faq, not the entire agreement. The agreement it’s self should state you can’t refuse a transaction solely because the customer refuses to show ID.

  283. Lucky225 says:

    @scootinger:

    CompUSA used to ask for DL and record it on EVERY transaction including cash until I pointed out exactly why they couldn’t do that.

  284. Lucky225 says:

    @StevenJohn:

    most places that take Visa also take MasterCard, and MasterCard rules are public, and they state that the Merchant’s Bank must not let the merchant discriminate in how they accept cards (i.e. make visa or MasterCard more favorable then other cards) Therefore they can’t require photo ID for Visa but not for MasterCard as it would be a discriminating policy that makes MasterCard more favorable option.

  285. Lucky225 says:

    @LUV2CattleCall:

    WRONG, as I HAVE POINTED OUT TO WAL*MART *SEVERAL* TIMES — IT SAYS “COMPARE SIGNATURES” *NOT* ID. Explaining that that means the signature on the back of the card and the one on the screen, that’s a task in it’s self.

  286. Lucky225 says:

    @Astos:

    CHECKING ID *DOES* NOT PREVENT FRAUD. PERIOD.

  287. DeltaPurser says:

    There seems to be two main reasons why some don’t want to show IDs:

    1) identity theft, which I would say is a valid concern.

    2) they don’t have ID, which makes me wonder WHY?!?!?! And if you have one, why would you not carry it with you?

  288. DeltaPurser says:

    @Lucky225: How do you REALLY feel about this topic? :-) I guess this is something you feel very passionate about, and I absolutely respect that.

  289. Lucky225 says:

    @DeltaPurser:

    Because this country doesn’t require you to carry ID on yourself. Some states like TEXAS require your physical address to be printed on the ID. I’m sure you’ve heard about criminals who rob you and then go to your house from your ID and rob that as well. Having that information on your person at all times just isn’t something some people like to do. Especially if you’re not driving and have no need for it to be on your person.

  290. tcp100 says:

    I am constantly befuddled at people who work so hard to prevent their credit card numbers from getting stolen, but are cavalier with other info.

    I hear it here over and over, “what if someone uses my credit card info! credit cards are eeeevil!” SO WHAT.

    The only person you are protecting by doing this is Chase, BoA and citibank. IT’S NOT YOUR LIABIlITY, PEOPLE!

    Getting your credit card number used or stolen is not a big deal. Getting your DL# and SSN is.

    Oh, and to the wizards who think a check is more secure.. Hello? It has your name address, *bank account number* , routing number, and signature on it. More secure? Are you on meth?

  291. Papagoose says:

    @edrebber:

    Is there any proof that “A large percenatage of Identity Theft occurrs from store employees viewing IDs.”?

    I don’t like showing my ID, and have refused all the way to the point of arguing with store managers and even walking away from an entire cart load of groceries. My reasons for not showing ID are usually attitude related. I don’t like being treated like a criminal and when the employee comes off heavy-handed, I refuse ID. I’m not sure how a cursory glance at my ID, which does not show my SSN, could enable identity theft, or at least make it any easier than it already is.

  292. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Papagoose: The idea is to make sure the person holding the card is the person who was assigned that card. Also, I know in NJ, our signatures are on our DLs, so it also verifies signature.

    It’s far from a foolproof system, but it’s something and I’d rather be treated “like a criminal” (which, by the way, is not happening if you’re not being cuffed and detained) than a criminal be treated like an innocent person.

  293. Lucky225 says:

    [www.rockymountainnews.com]

    This is the type of country we are becoming when we just bend over and show ID^

  294. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @DeltaPurser: Identity theft is not really a valid concern unless the person taking a photocopy of it/copying information off it. Unless, of course, you’re afraid the cameras above the register are manned by devious thieves who spend their day harvesting info off IDs or you’re afraid the cashier is a scientific marvel who can memorize everything on a form of ID in the 2 seconds they look at it. If that’s the case, you probably belong in an asylum where the “bad men” can’t get to you.

    As far as ID you don’t carry with you, I don’t get it either. I’m from NJ where not driving is not an option, but I can’t imagine what kind of photo ID there is that you wouldn’t carry with you.

  295. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:

    Funny, I was being detained by the manager while he called Police when I was at IHOP. That’s being treated like a criminal.

  296. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:

    The kind that has all your personal information on it that you don’t want other people seeing.

  297. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Lucky225: OK? And as I said, that’s being treated like a criminal. Being asked to show your ID, even with a snotty attitude, isn’t.

    @Lucky225: Good answer. *rolls eyes*

  298. Slytherin says:

    For the love of fuckin’ God, not another one of these stories again!!!!!!!!

  299. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Slytherin: The thing that blows me away about these stories is that yes, it was technically a violation of the Visa cardholder policies and procedures. That said, most if not every store has a policy posted somewhere that affords them the right to refuse to complete a sale to anyone for any reason. Granted, the store would need to come up with a reason that isn’t as flimsy as this if she pressed the issue, but she can’t prove she was refused because of a refusal to show ID if the store says differently.

  300. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:

    That’s fine and all, but what about restaurants where you have already ate the product and are simply trying to pay for it. They can refuse to accept a valid form of payment, but I don’t want to hear them crying when they don’t get paid for the food I ate because THEY don’t want to take my card.

  301. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Lucky225: Restaurants are a special case because the product cannot be returned or refused to you once it has been consumed. In that case, I agree and have always felt that if they accept any form of payment that could be refused for any reason (be it unsigned, lack of identification, etc.), it should be verified that they will accept it before they ever even serve you.

  302. digitalgimpus says:

    @Lucky225: Ha… If your looking to protect your privacy, don’t use a credit card.

    Seriously, if you use a credit card, don’t assume or expect privacy, your name is on it, your name is on the receipt with the purchase you made, date time, and the store, cc processor and yourself will keep a copy of that transaction for the next several years.

    Credit cards are not for privacy or security purposes. Anyone who things otherwise is either arrogant or ignorant. They are for convenience. You sacrifice security, and privacy for easy access to a line of credit. Stop making them into something they aren’t.

    I really hate seeing people fall into this trap. The only thing more pathetic are these kids who think posting embarrassing pictures on myspace is supposed to be private.

  303. ryanv1978 says:

    people complaining about their rights being violated because they were asked to show an ID have no real clue what it means to get their rights violated.

    get a clue

  304. Lucky225 says:

    @digitalgimpus:

    “They are for convenience.”

    Exactly why ID shouldn’t be required. I don’t care about giving out my name or card number. My DL#, address, dob, etc.. that’s just not necessary.

  305. Wormfather says:

    @James Gamble: I’m not showing my ID, but I tell you what. Saturday afternoon, I went to a restaurant, my order came out completly wrong and took 40 minutes. I sat as my fiancee ate so her food wouldnt get cold, when she was done, so was I, I wasnt waiting any longer for my food.

    But guess what, I tipped 20% anyway, so go away with your stereotypes.

  306. queenofdenial says:

    I was in Kohl’s this weekend and was asked to show my id with my credit card. I felt embarrassed being asked for it, as if I was a criminal. She was just an underpaid, uneducated employee. I do the majority of my shopping at Kohl’s and this was the first time I was asked for my id.

  307. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @digitalgimpus: This, too. I understand when people take privacy seriously and it’s completely understandable, but people take it way too far, especially when they don’t realize that they’ve already sacrificed far more personal info to far more people than they would be giving their ID to that waitstaffer or cashier who is only following store procedure and doesn’t care if you give it or not because chances are they aren’t even looking anything besides maybe the photo and certainly aren’t remembering anything on it.

    If anyone’s that paranoid about security, use cash. Everywhere takes it and no one asks for ID on cash. If you sign up for a credit card, you’ve already given up a permanent record of your identity to the bank that any bank teller can look up on a whim. Did that just blow anyone’s mind?

  308. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Lucky225: Then use cash. With convenience comes rules. You don’t get something for nothing and there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

  309. Lucky225 says:

    @Wormfather:

    Amen, I still tipped the waitress at IHOP, cus I knew it wasn’t her fault and she did give good service. She wasn’t even the one taking my payment.

  310. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither. You obviously have no clue about rights nor do you care about them as you give them up without question.

  311. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:

    Yea AND GUESS WHAT THOSE RULES ARE — NO ID!!! THATS IN THE MASTERCARD RULES, CANT REQUIRE IT, THEREFORE MERCHANT MUST ACCEPT MY CARD!

  312. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @ryanv1978: “MY RIGHTS!” is nearly as uneducated as “they made me feel like a criminal.”

    No. You have no “right” not to show your ID. That right is not afforded to you anywhere. You have a choice not to show your ID, but unless you are physically forced to show your ID after refusing, your “right” is not being violated and even in such an impossible scenario, it’s not your right to not show ID because, as I said, there is no such right afforded in the first place.

    And criminals? “A person guilty of a crime.” Unless you are detained and/or brought before a judge, you are not being treated like a criminal. You are FEELING like you are being persecuted, which is your own problem.

  313. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Lucky225: No ID, but most stores can ask to confirm you are the cardholder. If you do not offer some sort of proof in place of your ID, they can refuse your transaction by company policy.

  314. cybercjh says:

    I saw it happen to several people @ the Jensen Beach, FL store just a few days ago. When it was my turn, I paid with my Kohls charge and was not asked to show ID. Strange. But, I fired off an e-mail to Kohls anyway telling them this pratice has got to stop.

  315. Lucky225 says:

    wow, after 300 comments consumerist starts to freak out lol

  316. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:
    9th Amendment of the Constitution:

    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    There is nothing requiring a person to have an ID on a person, therefore forcing someone to show one is a violation of that person’s rights. It is a right retained by the people.

  317. Wormfather says:

    @MikeGrenade: You can inform your employees, I’m sure they have some weekly or monthly meeting and I’m sure credit card fruad has come up at least once or twice. That’s where you tell them that they cant make a customer show ID, but they can check the signature or make a Code 10 call.

  318. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @cybercjh: As an aside here, if anyone believes that showing their ID to a cashier who is going to glance at the photo if that and hand it back not having even looked at your personal info much less memorized it is a gross inconvenience that needs to stop, do what cybercjh did: write to the corporate office. Or your local TV station. Or your senator.

    Arguing with the cashier and even the store manager is pointless. The cashier does what the manager tells them to do and the store manager does what the district manager tells them. They’re not asking because it’s fun or because they like to agitate people enveloped in a cloak of paranoia. They’re asking because someone above them on the ladder will punish them if they don’t. Leave your purchases, walk out and argue with someone who has the leverage to change things.

  319. Dakine says:

    I think we can all agree that no clerk is going to instantly memorize all your info in a split second for the purposes of fraud, however…. there are still plenty of reasons to not be flashing your information around arbitrarily.

    Nearly anyone can glance at an address and have it locked in memory. So what’s to stop Suzy Clerk from pulling out her celly 2 minutes later, calling up her thug boyfriend and his buddies to go rob your house clean? They already KNOW you’re not home. They have your address.

    Think about it people. There IS alot of harm in giving away your personal info. Stop being sheep.

  320. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Lucky225: Incorrect. You have no right afforded to you that states you are supposed to be able to complete any purchase anywhere with any method.

    You’re right. You are not required to carry ID. You’re also not required to carry a credit card or even have one. If you CHOOSE to have a credit card and you CHOOSE to use it, it’s in your best interests to do everything possible to ensure you CAN use it. If not, carry cash or find another merchant that won’t ask you for ID.

  321. Lucky225 says:

    @Dakine:

    seriously, it always surprises me it’s like when you’re at the dmv and people have their SSN and everything just chilling on an application that they’re not even trying to obscure. Showing your ID to the clerk isn’t just showing it to the clerk, other people around could be looking at your information as well.

  322. Wormfather says:

    @FreeMarketGravy: You made an aggreement with either MasterCard or Visa and your bank to use they’re card, you aggreed to sign it, you aggreed to pay your bill, you aggreed to report fraud withing 90 days.

    Mr. Merchant made an aggreement with Visa and Mastercard and they’re aquiring bank to accept they’re card’s based on a few conditions too.

    When you use your card at a merchant you are both aggreeing to abide by your respective contracts.

    I dont give my ID because I dont have to, nowhere in my contract does it say I have to and there is no personal benifit to me by giving it. If someone steals my credit card I’m going to have to report it whether or not they actually used it, which is the extent of the “undue stress” that I’m going to be caused so I dont care.

    Also, it doesnt protect Mr. Merchant any either seeing as how as long as I sign my receipt they arent going to loose any money on the potential fraud.

    Finally, like I said before, if you REALLY feel like this isnt my card, there is a recourse. You make a Code 10 Call to MC/Visa and that person. Then I get to play the 21 question, memory game (I love this game) where they ask fun questions like where my sister lives, where I work and what color is my favorite jello.

  323. Wormfather says:

    @FreeMarketGravy: Company policy protects the employee, it does not protect the company and if the company is willing to violate their contract with another company, I’m not sure I want to be doing buisness with them anyway.

  324. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:

    The Merchant Rules forbid ID as a requirement when using a credit card, as a result I don’t need it when I make purchases. End of story. I should not have to carry ID around because some clueless merchant thinks they require it when if they only read their agreement they’ed see otherwise.

  325. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Wormfather: OK, and where did I say that the Merchant Agreement says anything differently?

    The store often has their own policy outside of the Merchant Agreement. Maybe it comes into conflict with the Merchant Agreement and in that case, that’s an issue between the merchant and Visa/Mastercard that leaves you free to shop somewhere that doesn’t have some sort of misunderstanding with the credit industry.

    Reciting the rules and regulations of credit ID confirmation to a cashier does nothing but make you look foolish.

  326. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Wormfather: And you’re free not to. America’s great like that.

    @Lucky225: Sure and you are free to either complain to someone who has the leverage to make sure every store employee knows that, shop somewhere that already DOES make sure every employee knows that or carry cash where this becomes a non-issue.

  327. Lucky225 says:

    @FreeMarketGravy:

    Well like I said, my biggest concern is like when I was at IHOP and had already ate the product. I usually DON’T shop at retail places that are willing to violate their merchant agreement, as that is just a completely bad business practice to begin with. I don’t carry cash because it’s easier to use credit, and if my card DOES get stolen, I’m not liable for the purchases made, which means I get to KEEP my cash.

  328. Dakine says:

    @Lucky225:

    Exactly. People assume some clerk is comparing their photo. But there’s no way anyone can know if they have any interest in your photo, or if you’re about to be cleaned out.

    It would be great if it was still 1952 and we could all go on thinking that people are inherently good. But this is reality we live in. When I wake up in the morning, I start my day by assuming that there are a lot of unsavory people in this world who will do what they can to get ahead easily. And then I build my day from there.

    It’s sort of like having locks on your car doors. Locks only keep honest people honest, they don’t stop crooks. And there’s no way to know who is the crook anymore.

    I read your entire IHOP story back when it was first posted up, and I fully agree with you. Clueless merchants (clerks) are a security threat. End of story.

  329. FreeMarketGravy says:

    @Lucky225: And as I said, in the case of restaurants, I agree with you.

    That said, it all goes back to “easier to use credit.” With ease and convenience comes a cost. Rules that don’t otherwise exist and the occasional occurrence of experiences like yours. It’s always going to be like that until that perfect world we all dream of comes to be. If you want ease of use, you have to accept that on occasion, it’s going to make things MORE difficult than if you used the standard method (in this case, cash).

  330. Dakine says:

    @ryanv1978:

    “I show my ID whenever asked and have never had my identity stolen.”

    Give it time. You’ll change your tune.

    My identity was stolen 2 months ago. I’m still cleaning up the mess. Cancelled every single card, alerts to the bureaus, chargebacks… oh the fun.

    No, I didn’t leave my wallet in a parking lot. Someone gleaned my info and used it on existing cards, then started setting up entirely new accounts in my name.

    Keep volunteering your info and sooner or later, someone will gladly take it from you.

  331. Dakine says:

    @digitalgimpus:

    “Credit cards are not for privacy or security purposes. Anyone who things otherwise is either arrogant or ignorant. They are for convenience. You sacrifice security, and privacy for easy access to a line of credit. Stop making them into something they aren’t.”

    You couldn’t be more wrong.

    Credit cards are used SOLELY for security. They prevent theft of hard cash. They prevent your info from being disclosed as with checks. They are protected/guaranteed by the issuer, so if you are mugged or otherwise compromised you can make a phone call and secure your account. And they are essentially anonymous with exception to your name.

    Some idiot clerk REQUIRING your ID in direct violation of the merchant agreement destroys all of that security in one single instant. And you’re not only letting them do it, you are encouraging it.

  332. ryanv1978 says:

    Reciting the rules and regulations of credit ID confirmation to a cashier does nothing but make you look foolish.

  333. ryanv1978 says:

    @Dakine:

    so you know with 100% certainty where your ID theft originated? It was from showing your ID while making a purchase?

    You guys are crazy, thinking that someone is going to look at your address and then send some goon over to rob you. How would the clerk know if anyone else in the house is home?

    your people are way paranoid over stupid shit and in the end it just inconveniences your lives.

    There are plenty of stores that keep yoru financial information on records for YEARS, your ID could be stolen from that info too. What are you going to do about that?

    Your id was NOT stolen from showing a license at a register. No way, no how.

  334. taka2k7 says:

    So, could I half-ass glue a wallet pic of myself to a 3×5 and write “ME” next to the pic for an ID? Maybe they would accept that…

  335. Dakine says:

    @ryanv1978:

    “You guys are crazy, thinking that someone is going to look at your address and then send some goon over to rob you. How would the clerk know if anyone else in the house is home?

    your people are way paranoid over stupid shit and in the end it just inconveniences your lives.”

    Really? Are you serious?

    Last week, 2 houses were broken into just a few blocks from where I live, in the middle of the day, like around 1:30 in the afternoon, while the people were HOME. Beat them senseless & bloody, robbed them blind, and got away with it.

    Now, you’d think that kind of craziness could only be possible in some serious hardcore ghetto. Well you’d be wrong. I live in an extremely “well-off” (for lack of a better description) gated resort community on Maui, that has it’s own private police force (security patrol) in addition to the regular police.

    You still think it’s paranoia?

    Now imagine what they could do if they KNOW you’re not home.

    Sorry man, but you’re the one that needs to wake up. Life is not an episode of the Brady Bunch. There are real people out there that will do you REAL harm, and not give it a second thought.

    No, I have no idea where my personal info was gleaned. That’s what makes ID theft such a pain. You have to lock down every account and start over, because once your info has been compromised, it’s ALL been compromised.

  336. Joe-Bob says:

    Whenever I get asked I reply “When I use my card on a website they dont ask for my ID.”

  337. Lucky225 says:

    @Dakine:

    What I find interesting is this ryanv1978 seems to think it’s okay for these stores to ‘refuse service’ to you and what not, and yet made this comment in regards to Best Buy asking a customer to leave:

    “It’s not a matter of opinion for someone to police what you can and cannot say. That’s your first amendment right. Best Buy is full of crap on this one….and all you people who are defending them for their “right” to do this are idiots.”

    Yet he defends a merchant’s “right” to see your ID, even though you have a right not to show it.

  338. Lucky225 says:

    @Joe-Bob:

    Exactly, or at redbox movie rental machines, gas stations, and other self-serve locations. But suddenly when someone else is touching YOUR card you’re supposed to show that person your ID?

  339. orlo says:

    Wow. Please, can’t we all just agree to blame the credit card companies? They advertise that credit cards are convenient and have fraud protection, and sort of kind of tell merchants not to check ID; and then they try to recoup fraudulent charges from merchants.

    If they want people to use their cards for everything, CC companies have to take the loss 100% for fraudulent charges. Merchants don’t want to eat these costs, yet they don’t want to stop taking cards so… madness ensues.

  340. Lucky225 says:

    @orlo:

    Not ‘sorta-kinda’ THEY STRAIGHT UP PUT IT IN PRINT IN THE MERCHANT RULES — CAN NOT REFUSE CARD SOLELY BECAUSE CARDHOLDER REFUSES TO PROVIDE ID.

    Merchants need to take responsibility, if they can’t stand the heat they need to get out of the kitchen — meaning can’t comply with visa/mc’s rules because you’re worried about fraud, then stop taking CC’s altogether.

  341. unklegwar says:

    @James Gamble: Wow, that’s a whole lot of assumptions on your part.

  342. Razta says:

    Lowes always refuses my purchases without ID.

  343. Dakine says:

    The CC companies, (Visa, Mastercard, etc) understand the Golden Rule: If you betray your consumers trust, you won’t have any consumers. You don’t cook the Golden Goose for Tuesday’s dinner.

    Some of these merchants need a refresher course.

  344. ryanv1978 says:

    @Dakine:

    thats fine…bad shit happens everywhere, but those houses weren’t broken into because they showed ID to a cashier, so i dont knwow what your point is.

    I would say your gated community is a rip off as well as your private police force.

  345. ryanv1978 says:

    there has yet to be 1 reasonable explanation of what bad things could happen from flashing your ID to a cashier.

    so far we have complete identity theft and then armed home invasion. Neither of which are based in reality.

  346. ryanv1978 says:

    and “i dont have to show it”

    isn’t a good answer. I know you don’t have to show it, but what bad comes from showing it? 2 seconds isn’t even enough time to read all the info.

    lucky keep taking my words out of context all you want. Your the one who embarrassed your new wife over a matter of principal. I hope it was worth it. At least someone has sense in the family. do the world a favor and don’t procreate.

  347. ryanv1978 says:

    @latemodel:

    wow everyone….did you hear that? now that makes some sense….better not go to the hospital anymore…you might get your identity stolen. better refuse them ID as well.

    Keep eating pancakes soaked in sugar and when you have a diabetic foot ulcer you can choose not to show ID for them as well.

  348. Dakine says:

    @ryanv1978:

    How do you pretend to know the reason those houses were or were not selected for the hit? One of them was an old man. He was hospitalized because of what happened. It’s entirely possible that some cashier/part-time-thug looked at his ID address, knew he was feeble and defenseless, went there after work with his pal, beat the guy into submission, and robbed him.

    Crooks may not be degree holders, but they’re not altogether stupid either, and they don’t like surprises. They aren’t going to bust into a place in the middle of the day if there’s even a remote chance of someone being there that is capable of fighting back.

    So don’t discount any possiblity why those houses were or were not selected. Blatant attacks like this are rarely “random”.

    And yes, I agree. The gated community fees we pay are a total ripoff. They do more harm to the actual residents than any good we get out of it.

  349. Dakine says:

    @ryanv1978:

    “so far we have complete identity theft and then armed home invasion. Neither of which are based in reality.”

    well, I guess you have a very charmed life. Because both of these things happen every day all over the country.

  350. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Just looking at the first page gives you the explanation. If you can’t understand that someone can remember the information on that ID until you walk away and then quickly right it down, you never will. Memorizing someone’s address off of an ID is not exactly that hard to do, especially if it’s a local address and the clerk is familiar with the street name. So the address would be rather easy information for the clerk to retain, they could memorize your DL# rather easily, and write it down when you walk away, then just look at the merchant receipt if they’ve forgot your name already. Showing your ID is about compliance, not security. Not showing it does protect your privacy. My address, DL#, DOB, etc.. is none of your business and has nothing to do with the CC transaction.

  351. Dakine says:

    @ryanv1978:

    “better not go to the hospital anymore…you might get your identity stolen. better refuse them ID as well.”

    Last time I was at the hospital, I did not give them any ID.

  352. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    regarding hospitals, Everytime I’ve gone to the ER they don’t even ASK me for my ID, and I don’t provide them with SSN(and they don’t care that I’m not providing it either). Seems like they get patient’s privacy a lot better then a retail store where you’re buying a $25 purchase.

  353. Dakine says:

    It’s pretty obvious some of you are already long since brainwashed into police state mentality. It’s sad. But not only do you not understand anything outside of police state thinking, you cannot stand the idea that someone might not comply with it.

    “I am not a number, I am a free man!” – Iron Maiden

  354. ryanv1978 says:

    @Lucky225:

    they don’t ask you for it because you give them your insurnace card, and once they pull you up…they have all that info in the system.

    Unless you go to the hospital and pay cash.

    I do live a charmed life.

  355. LibraryGeek says:

    digital gimpas:
    you said:
    >Credit cards weren’t designed to be secure. The marketing pitch was fast instant credit. Not security. If you want security, use a personal check or cash.<
    But, I remember being told (once upon a time when I worked in a retail shop) that a check will pass through approximately 7 people. Checks are not any safer, since they have your account info, name/adress information and your signature there for the taking. You can do a charge back or declare a purchase fraud on a CC, you cannot do that with a check withdrawal on a checking account. I’m not sure what the answer is — I have see ID along w/my sig on the back because at least if someone steals my card — they won’t be able to use it 10 minutes after stealing it.

  356. Dakine says:

    I pay cash at hospitals.

  357. Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg says:

    @ryanv1978: and “i dont have to show it” isn’t a good answer. I know you don’t have to show it, but what bad comes from showing it?

    You seem pretty insistent that somebody needs to offer some suitably realistic and likely (to YOU) bad outcome to justify refusal. This is an odd position. Outcomes are irrelevant. The only two relevant facts are

    1) I don’t have to, and
    2) I don’t want to

    I’m sorry that this isn’t good enough justification for you, but it’s good enough for me, and it’s good enough for MasterCard.

    I’ll bet that you’re also in the “Why make a fuss, just show them your damned receipt already” group, too.

  358. LibraryGeek says:

    I am guessing that you provide hospitals with your insurance card information right? I know that whenever I go through the “new patient” procedures they take my insurance info, ssn, name, address, phone number. Wouldn’t that be enough information for someone to steal your identity if they wished to do so?

  359. Dakine says:

    @LibraryGeek:
    “I have see ID along w/my sig on the back because at least if someone steals my card — they won’t be able to use it 10 minutes after stealing it.”

    “See ID” is useless. Anyone can use your card online and no one is going to ask to see your ID. And it takes less than ten minutes to do that.

  360. Dakine says:

    @LibraryGeek:

    Hospitals cannot refuse you treatment if you need it. You don’t have to give them your info if you don’t want to.

  361. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Wrong, I don’t have insurance, they bill me.

  362. ryanv1978 says:

    well now it all makes sense. I know see what kind of person I am dealing with here.

    no insurance? You had better hope you never need anything serious done or you will be crushed under debt for the rest of your life.@TinyBug:

    Yep, I will show my reciept. You can’t tell me what bad could come from that too. You people just like causing issues and making scenes. If it gets you off that ones thing….but don’t act like your some patriot standing up for whats right, because you are not.

  363. Dakine says:

    I do have insurance. But I am also allowed to choose when, where, and IF I use it. Most times I prefer to pay with cash. And yes, I’ve had a few hefty hospital bills. Some over $10k. Paid in cash while my insurance card stays in my wallet. It’s MY choice. Not theirs.

    I don’t expect you to understand because you’re too busy standing in line to show your receipt a retired guy making $5 bucks an hour.

  364. ryanv1978 says:

    have fun in your dream world were Kohl’s employees are really con men and IHOP cashiers are armed robbers.

    keep fighting the good fight….your a true American heroes.

    a store can refuse to serve you for pretty much any reason they want. now stop your complaining and pay with cash everywhere you go if you dont want to run into this trouble or deal with the fact that your going to look like a dick.

  365. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    No I don’t have insurance because I just moved, and recently I had to go to the ER because I got the flu. They didn’t ask me for any identification or any personal information. They simply sent me a bill in the mail, which I later paid over the phone, with my credit card.

  366. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    That’s exactly the problem is when you’re the dick because THEY’RE not following their own merchant rules. Oh god, the poor merchant, Mr. merchant couldn’t possibly be the dick when he breaks the rules, Mr. Merchant has fraud to worry about!

  367. ryanv1978 says:

    what does moving have to do with health benefits?

    that makes very little sense.

    @Dakine:

    so let me get this straight? you pay for health insurnance, and then choose to go to the hospital and pay 10k for services? That’s probably the dumbest thing i have ever heard in my life. why not cancel the insurance if your going to do that, you could save yourself some $$.

    I don’t expect you to understand because your the guy paying for things you don’t use and trying to spin it off like your bright for it.

    get a clue.

  368. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    You’ve obviously never moved out of State. Blue Cross/Blue Shield California doesn’t work in Texas buddy.

  369. ryanv1978 says:

    and your right…it IS YOUR choice…

    it just says a lot about you and your financial intelligence that you choose to pay out of pocket while also paying for coverage.

    so tell me…what harm comes from you showing a receipt? will they also break into your home? steal your identity? you people are exactly what is wrong with this country. whiny little bitches who thinks the world owes you something.

  370. ryanv1978 says:

    @Lucky225:

    i have moved out of state…twice in fact…and my insurance moved right along with me. I work for a real company…who gives good benefits.

    good try though…

  371. ryanv1978 says:

    see you later guys…ive got to go sell a hip and knee.

    keep worrying about retired old men and ihop waitresses with 2 teeth. They are THUGS.

  372. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    No people like you who think WE owe the merchants something because they say so and we should just bend over and take it because they say so. That’s what’s wrong with this country. Next it will be fingerprints required on every transaction and you’ll be whining that someone’s making a scene when they don’t want to put their fingerprint on the receipt. “What harm could possibly come from putting your fingerprint down?”

  373. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    California Department of Corrections isn’t in Texas, so can’t exactly transfer.

  374. Dakine says:

    @ryanv1978:

    It has nothing to do with “Being American” or any of that nonsense. I don’t remember seeing anyone in here claiming to be “a patriot”.

    Personally, I think our country is seriously screwed up. I’ve been slowly planning over the last year to finally move out of this stinking country for good. But that’s another issue.

    Nobody is trying to be a hero. We’re simply protecting our privacy from people who have NO BUSINESS with their noses in it. It’s your right to give away any information you choose about yourself. It’s MY right to protect mine.

    You don’t have to like it or agree with it. I certainly don’t agree with you, so I don’t expect you to agree with me.

    I also protect my public information, such as mortgage/real property records from nosey people by putting everything I have under a trust.

    For 2 years a had a stalker. He repeatedly called my neighbors, family across the country, sent police to my house, and on and on and on. No one can ever tell me I’m being paranoid. Shit happens. And if it hasn’t happened to you YET, it will eventually. One day you wake up and your credit accounts are compromised for thousands of dollars. Oops. Must be paranoia.

    The big point you can’t seem to grasp here is, MY information is MY business. That’s the end of that story. There is no addendum, no provisional attachments, no exceptions, and no excuses to that. You can fling your front door open and let the general public go through your tax records for all I care. Nothing to fear as long as you’re not hiding anything, right? Because nobody would ever think of using your information for their own gain now would they?

    Wake up. The world is a shitty place without forgiveness or mercy. The strong survive and the weak are eaten by the wolves.

  375. Lucky225 says:

    @Dakine:

    We got something in common, I have been stalked as well, with harassment on par as yours, including SWAT teams kicking down family members doors from the stalker placing false 911 calls with spoofed Caller ID. This is not some FANTASY. This is what real people were doing with my information. When you have the SWAT team busting in your house all because some lunatic has your address and wants to harass you, you tend to get defensive about your personal information.

  376. Dakine says:

    Anyone ever trying to impose fingerprint scanning for retail will never get my business again. My entire house is equipped with fingerprint locks. If Wal-mart starts requiring your fingerprint, that’s one more breach of security that cannot ever be tolerated.

  377. Lucky225 says:

    @Dakine:

    There’s this club in Arkansas that is horrible. Because it’s a dry county you need a membership to get into the club. They want your fingerprint and ‘the last 4 of your social'(when you go back to the club they scan your fingerprint for entry and ask for last 4 of your ssn to verify you’re actually you) Needless to say I took my business across state lines to Missouri :)

  378. Serpephone says:

    Fry’s wouldn’t let me purchase $50 worth of memory cards with my Visa without looking at my ID. My husband thinks it is a good thing. I think it is a hassle–might as well use cash–or a CHECK!!!

  379. dale3h says:

    I feel that it’s OK for the merchant to REQUEST the ID, just like they should be able to REQUEST a receipt at the door. But with the same respect, I think that the consumer should have the right to decline presentation without argument.

    When I walk past the door agents at any store except Costco (I believe it states in your membership agreement that you must show receipt), they ask for my receipt and I simply say, “No you may not,” and I keep walking.

  380. Dakine says:

    @Lucky225:

    Yeah, a good stalker will certainly change your perspective on privacy and security. Maybe I’m a little paranoid about it, but it’s not something I ever want to go through again.

    My house now has frosted glass, motion sensors, fingerprint locks, dogs, fencing with locked gates, wireless alarm system and a massive safe bolted to the concrete foundation. My credit files are frozen. My assets are in a trust. I use a P.O. Box. And I don’t volunteer my ID to low wage clerks. The very fact that they hardly make any money makes them a prime candidate in my opinion for thievery.

    Over the top? Possibly. But give a thief a choice between cracking my security measures or going after ryanv1978, they aren’t going to choose me. Crooks will always go after the easiest target.

  381. Lucky225 says:

    @Dakine:

    Agreed 100%. We are all vulnerable, but you don’t have to be the fastest runner, just faster then the guy behind you.

  382. Dakine says:

    @Lucky225:

    Yep. Out here in the islands we say, you don’t have to outswim the shark. You just need to outswim the guy next to you. ;-)

  383. Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg says:

    @Dakine: Anyone ever trying to impose fingerprint scanning for retail will never get my business again.

    Don’t sweat it – they’ll just start indoctrinating the next generation that it’s perfectly normal and routine:
    [www.boingboing.net]

  384. Dakine says:

    @TinyBug:

    Sad but oh so true

  385. Lucky225 says:

    @TinyBug:

    Lancents not just for diabetics any more! We need your DNA to verify this is your card silly!

  386. anatak says:

    * BAD: Stores accepting your credit card without requesting identification. **this only encourages fraud, how can this be a good thing?**
    * Pointless: Writing “Ask for ID” on the back of your credit card, allowing merchants to request identification.
    * God-forbid!: Stores demanding identification as a condition of using your credit card.

    This is a stupid policy and the people fighting this make no sense. The cashiers are simply glancing at the name on your card and the name on the driver’s license and MAYBE the photo as well. Which is terrible, right?

  387. Lucky225 says:

    @anatak:

    Which is against the merchant agreement in the first place, RIGHT?

  388. shadowkahn says:

    Can someone treat me like the dummy I doubtless am and explain to me why a merchant requiring proof that you’re not using a stolen credit card ( or at least that you were persistant enough to make a fake id to go along with that credit card) is a bad thing? Seems to me that a merchant who checks your ID is making sure your money stays with you, instead of the thief.

  389. Lucky225 says:

    @shadowkahn:

    You are not liable for stolen purchases, they are not protecting anyone but themselves. Most of in-person credit card fraud is done with counterfeit cards that can have any name embossed on it (i.e. the crooks name, with his ID). Oh yea, and they’re NOT ALLOWED TO REQUIRE IT IN THE FIRST FRICKEN PLACE.

  390. ryanv1978 says:

    Don’t try and reason with them Shadown.

    Yesterday Lucky was claiming that he was being treated like a jew in WWII era Germany.

    Imagine that? A group of people who were lead into gas chambers is equal in his mind to being asked for ID so the store can make sure someone else isn’t using your card.

    Genocide being compared to this is a riot.

    He has stopped that comparison though, so maybe he got a history lesson.

    Lucky – you just must rub people the wrong way, I bet it’s your attitude that you take with them. That’s why you had a stalker…and I have friends.

  391. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    You’re the one who can’t seem to REASON. It’s against the merchant rules, PERIOD. That’s reason enough, regardless of weather or not a person has ID, want’s to show it, or not. The merchant can not require it, period. That *IS* reason. End of Story, no further explanation or reasoning needed. You can not bypass a contract you have with your bank just because you ‘reason that it ought to be that way.’

  392. ryanv1978 says:

    look where that reasoning got you!!!

    an embarrassed wife and a potential visit from the police.

    For all you know, maybe Kohl’s has a different merchant agreement with Visa/MC that you are not aware of. They certainly don’t have to disclose their contracts to you.

    I can reason very well. I know that flashing my ID to someone for one second puts me at NO RISK. I know that not agreeing to show the ID will most likely result in some hassell for me and a gigantic waste of time.

    In the end though, your wife smartened up and presented ID. Did she not? How did her name match on the ID and the car? Did you take her name?

    This would make lots of sense to me.

  393. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    Yes, she was an authorized user BEFORE i got married, and I took her name.

    And I *DO* KNOW that EVERY merchant’s contract explicitly lets the merchant know they will not be allowed to require photo ID for the transaction, as it’s in the merchant’s rules that the Acquirer must make sure the merchant doesn’t violate the contract.

    Master Card Merchant Rules
    7.1.6 Card Acceptance Requirements

    Each Acquirer must ensure that:

    f. a Merchant does not refuse to complete a Transaction solely because a
    Cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a
    Card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information,
    except as specifically permitted or required by the Rules;

  394. Lucky225 says:

    By the way, my complaints apparently are getting somewhere, I just got an email from mastercard:

    Thank you for contacting our Customer Operations Services Team. This is an
    automated acknowledgement confirming receipt of your inquiry.

    Though this acknowledgement isn’t intended as a reply to the email you have
    just submitted, we would like to confirm that we received your comments.
    Our system has already assigned a service request number, which you can
    find in the subject line above for your reference. Please leave the
    subject line intact for all future correspondence regarding this issue to
    ensure optimized tracking.

    We understand that you are eager to hear back from us as soon as possible.
    Noha Light will read and address your request personally, which often
    requires some time for research and/or investigation before replying.

    We respect your time and are doing all we can to get back to you quickly.
    Our current average response cycle time is 2.6 business days, with over 60%
    of the issues being resolved with in 24 hours. With that in mind, our
    standard response time frame is 5 to 7 business days.

    Should this inquiry be urgent feel free to follow up your email submission
    by calling us at 1-800-999-0363.

  395. Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg says:

    @shadowkahn: Seems to me that a merchant who checks your ID is making sure your money stays with you, instead of the thief.

    Mastercard is already ensuring that my money stays with me – I have zero liability if my card is stolen and used fraudulently. Zero. By law, the maximum liability I could have is $50.

    So no, they’re not protecting me by demanding my ID – they’re trying to protect themselves. And they’re doing it in a way that almost certainly violates their agreement with the CC company, as well as inconveniencing me, invading my privacy, and opening me up to the risk of identity theft.

    Yes, I know that the risk of identity theft is very small in these circumstances. But given how absolutely enormous the consequences can be, it seems reasonable to guard my private information pretty tightly. Hell, identity theft can lead to you losing EVERYTHING you own, including your house. Even worse, imagine if someone used your stolen identity to buy child porn online. It’s real, it’s a problem, and it DOES happen. Even a miniscule risk is too much if you can potentially lose everything , and avoiding that risk, especially when it is both unnecessary and against the rules, seems pretty sensible to me.

    So call me paranoid if you like, but a merchant who has accepted the MasterCard rules is not seeing my ID. It’s none of their business where I live, when I was born, what my SS# or drivers license# is, or what my height,weight, eye color are or used to be. If they want to make sure that it’s really my card, they can compare the signature on the card to the signature on the receipt, just like they said they would when they told MasterCard they wanted to participate.

  396. ryanv1978 says:

    haha….you took HER name?

    That’s all I needed to know man…any issues with your family should just be dealt with by the one who wears the pants in your family, which clearly IS NOT YOU.

    Just let your wife pay every time, you just order your stuffed french toast and ask for extra powdered sugar. Things will go much smoother for you that way.

  397. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:
    Again, she used MY account to pay, you can’t seem to grasp this concept.

  398. LibertyReign says:

    @t325,

    Now you have the”RIGHT” to demand my government issued documents?!?!?!? So not only would you have our government acting like the Nazis but you declare yourself an SS officer? You have no right to demand my I.D. under any circumstances whatsoever. The police do not even have this right as it is a violation of the 4th amendment of the United States Constitution, and American citizens are not required to have I.D. It is MY right to travel wherever I want, and make purchases wherever I want WITHOUT carrying any form of identification WHATSOEVER. I am deeply saddened when it is considered common courtesy to violate someone’s civil rights. It is not my opinion that this is a big deal. It is the very foundation of our society and when you violate my rights under the pretense that it is “no big deal” I suggest that you read what the other “troublemakers”(Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Sam Adams, George Washington) had to say on the issue. You can start with The Federalist papers and end with The Constitution of The United States of America. Anyone who thinks that standing up for your unalienable rights is a waste of time makes me sick, and I declare that you are an imperialist and what is wrong with today’s society.

    I wont even go into how ridiculous it is to suggest that there is any validity in violating your own merchant agreement, or that I.D. checking has anything to do with protecting the consumer when a MasterCard is being used. It is no surprise that the sheeple willing to go along to get along are not only grossly uninformed on their rights, their contracts, and their responsibilities, but also on any other issue which affects society as a whole such as privacy rights, security of personal information, identity theft, consumer advocacy, and/or fraud prevention.

  399. LibertyReign says:

    @dabrown

    The comparison to Nazi Germany is 100% valid as the Nazis represent the most recent and provocative form of a Fascist government which is just another word for corporatism. When corporations grant themselves police powers and/or cooperate with government it is the very frackin’ definition of Fascism and the epitome of what the Nazis tried to accomplish. Your ignorance of society, merchant agreements, The Bill of Rights, The 4th amendment, and of history does not make the comparison any less valid. It is your lack of knowledge on the subject which leaves a gap between the comparison and the situation in question. You are simply uninformed.

  400. LibertyReign says:

    I have only had my identy stolen three times in my whole life. All three times it was proven to be an employee of a merchant where I made a valid purchase. This is because I am resposnible when it comes to protecting my information and I don’t leave my credit cards or other information lying around to be stolen(This includes in your car). Sorry to all the ignorant people who think asking for I.D. is to PREVENT fraud. You obviously know nothing about how a credit card works, and there is over a 70% chance that you know nothing of the laws regarding credit card purchases in your state. Consumers are not liable for fraudlent charges, and it is A VIOLATION OF CONTRACT to demand I.D.

    YOU PAPERS PLEASE SIR!!!! YOU MAY NOT MAKE A PURCHASE OF GOODS WITHOUT SHOWING ME YOUR GOVERNMENT ISSUED PAPERS PLEASE!!! YOU ARE A CRIMINAL UNLESS YOU SHOW ME YOUR GOVERNMENT ISSUED PAPERS NOW!!! I WILL CALL THE POLICE UNLESS YOU SHOW ME YOUR GOVERNMENT ISSUED PAPERS NOW!!!

    For those of you still in denial let’s see if I can make it sink in.. nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi nazi… NAZI!

    Fascism has NOTHING to do with JEWS. Race has no implication in this story or in these comments. If you had any intellect, knowledge or experience to back up your side of the argument you would not need to resort to creed or religion in an appeal to the lowest common denominator.

  401. rmuser says:

    @James Gamble: Why is the customer the one who should have to “get over it”?

  402. Lucky225 says:

    @rmuser:

    According to these guys we should just EXPECT that retailers don’t know any better and be prepared to show our papers

  403. ryanv1978 says:

    I don’t really care which account was used to pay.

    Point is, someone smartened up and resolved the situation. It sure wasn’t you! I’ll give some credit to your wife for being smart enough to pay and leave. Weather she used your card, or cash I don’t really care.

    I hope her last name was Kennedy, or you really have no excuse.

  404. LibertyReign says:

    @FreeMarketGravy
    “MY RIGHTS!” is nearly as uneducated as “they made me feel like a criminal.”

    “No. You have no “right” not to show your ID. That right is not afforded to you anywhere.”

    *BUZZER* WRONG!

    I’m not sure which make me want to vomit more:

    1. Your inept ability at forming a valid argument

    2. Your complete ignorance to your divine rights as a human being

    or

    3. The fact that you are calling someone else uninformed on the subject of one’s rights.

    RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..

    “it’s not your right to not show ID because, as I said, there is no such right afforded in the first place.”

    The United States Senate would disagree. I am 27 years old. I own property and I am a father. I have no identification whatsoever as it is my right as an American to remain PAPERLESS.

    “And criminals? “A person guilty of a crime.” Unless you are detained and/or brought before a judge, you are not being treated like a criminal. You are FEELING like you are being persecuted, which is your own problem.”

    Being threatened by a corporation to show your papers or be arrested for theivery is far beyond one’s PERCEPTION of being persecuted. If you had bothered to RTFA you would have noticed he WAS detained AND threatened with arrest. Again you are wrong and your argument is foundationless. Good day sir.

  405. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    I have no excuse? Just because you feel contempt complying with facist policies that are in obvious violation of contract to begin with doesn’t mean *I* don’t have an excuse not to show my ID as it is my choice not to show it, and my right not to show it. They can not force me to show it. They didn’t force my wife to show it, it was out of choice that she did it. Just like it was out of choice that the merchant violated their contract and is now facing fines from MasterCard.

  406. ryanv1978 says:

    I meant you have no excuse for giving your family name up.

    That’s fine though, we have already established who wears the pants in your marriage. It’s VERY clear.

    I really hope her future isn’t tied to you being a success…hopefully she has something going for her.

    I know it was her choice to show it, it was a good choice considering the scene that you were probably causing. She was embarrassed and wanted to leave, you wanted to prove a uselsss point. Keep doing that and I bet you end up in divorce court sooner rather than later.

  407. LibertyReign says:

    @ tinybug

    AMEN!

  408. Lucky225 says:

    @ryanv1978:

    First of all I’m adopted, so I wasn’t giving up any family name. The last name of my foster parents was not exactly a last name anyone would want as their last name. Your assumptions on my marriage also have no bearing on the argument at hand and nothing to do with the issue, the fact that you have to try to take stabs at me like that, only shows that you have no argument.

  409. Buran says:

    @DeltaPurser: and here *I* got made fun of for posting a lot in some topics…

  410. LibertyReign says:

    @ryanv1978

    “I meant you have no excuse for giving your family name up.

    That’s fine though, we have already established who wears the pants in your marriage. It’s VERY clear.

    I really hope her future isn’t tied to you being a success…hopefully she has something going for her.

    I know it was her choice to show it, it was a good choice considering the scene that you were probably causing. She was embarrassed and wanted to leave, you wanted to prove a uselsss point. Keep doing that and I bet you end up in divorce court sooner rather than later.”

    Yeah you should just learn how to be a good little slave and do what your told by the corporations so that you shall not be EMBARASSED in front of the other slaves. Lets pay no attention to the fact that your wife filed a complaint against the merchant for being humiliated, violated, and treated like a criminal. This is all YOUR fault because you refuse to submit to the will of the all-mighty cashier.

    When did American men beocme such spineless cowards who will sacrafice their liberty and integrity to truth in order to be saved the slightest embarassment or inconvenience? People like ryan make me sick.. Who’s WIFE are YOU, Ryan?

  411. Lucky225 says:

    @Buran:

    What can I say I’m passionate about this topic. I once made Wal*Mart call visa on my cellphone on speakerphone and have the rep tell them that they can’t require photo ID. The manager got all snotty “So as long as the card is signed anyone can just come in here and use it and I have no idea if that is the actual person’s card or someone else?”

    “That’s correct ma’am, as long as the card is signed you are only to compare the signature on the card to that on the receipt, if you feel the signature does not match you can call us with a Code 10 call and we will verify the customer for you.”

    At which point the managers jaw just dropped and told the cashier to just ring me up.

  412. Dakine says:

    @shadowkahn:

    “Can someone treat me like the dummy I doubtless am and explain to me why a merchant requiring proof that you’re not using a stolen credit card ( or at least that you were persistant enough to make a fake id to go along with that credit card) is a bad thing? Seems to me that a merchant who checks your ID is making sure your money stays with you, instead of the thief.”

    What happened to “Innocent until PROVEN guilty”?

    You speak as though merchants should FIRST treat us as though we are ALL using stolen cards.

    Get your head straight.

  413. LibertyReign says:

    @shadowkahn:

    Because corporations declaring themselves the police and inventing their own “policies” or laws in order to grant themselves police powers is called FASCISM. 1930’s Italy/Germany. Look it up! It’s bad enough when the cops pretend they have the right to demand I.D. Now Joe Shmoe at the white trash motel and diner gets to pull my docs?!?!?!

    Hey can I get your DL # shadowkahn? I want to make sure you aren’t posting under another person’s handle!

    Let me stop defending my freedoms for once second and in the interest of learning and understand ask you a very simple question which I am genuinely interested in hearing the answer to.

    At what point does it become NOT ok for you to present your papers? Where is the line for shadowkahn? No sarcasm intended. I really want to know.

  414. rikkus256 says:

    I support stories like this. Merchants or any retailers think they can do whatever they want (even sometimes violating the law) because CUSTOMERS RARELY COMPLAINT. We got to voice our concerns.

  415. Anonymous says:

    Easy solution: USE CASH! With cash you can buy whatever you want without question. Ask a dope dealer why he don’t accept VISA and he will say: you can’t truss it!! Why do you use credit cards? If you don’t have the liquidity to buy at Kohls, maybe you should try Dollar General.

  416. Angie Isenberg says:

    So I would rather them check my ID to make sure I was the person using the card then not too. Seriously people it’s for your own security! If you won’t provide ID that usually tells the cashier something’s fishy!

  417. alexo says:

    That is definitely Kohl’s policy, not the POS associate (who absolutely does not want an argument but cannot take the responsibility of not checking. It’s sort of like telling them the sales signs are deceptive – they have no control over that, they are given the information by higher ups. Even their store managers are taking info from district managers and higher.) The associates cannot and will not take a credit card purchase with ID – I worked there years ago. And several other retail stores (all of whom had the same policy – even if they don’t ask, it is usually in their policy to do so.)

    Further, I’m actually disturbed that Visa wouldn’t want someone to check ID. It makes me glad I have their debit card (can use that thing anywhere) but I certainly won’t be getting a credit card from them any time soon!

  418. Skwidspawn says:

    Just a heads up for anyone new to this article, the new agreement is available here (PDF): http://usa.visa.com/download/merchants/card-acceptance-guidelines-for-visa-merchants.pdf