wow, small world. I used to shop there all the time. I used to think that it was one of the better Wal-Marts around. (Now that I live elsewhere and see some pretty bad stuff.) Don't fret Steve, there is a Giant and Weis market within 3 minutes, and a Circuit City and Best Buy within 5.

Perhaps Visa should be made aware of this. According to the Visa merchant rules (easy to find via Google), a merchant cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. You need no ID whatsoever. Mastercard has similar rules. All you need is to be able to sign the signature on the back of your card.

Have we progressed too far as a society to condone a swift punch in the throat?

They were completely out of line. They broke corporate policy by holding onto the ID and card. If anything, they should have just called the CSM and let them handle the whole situation while still letting the customer hold their card.

I could understand if they were selling restricted items, but it's Rock Band, for goodness sake. The Asset Protection Manager should have better policies than that to prevent shrink.

Ugh, what is with people in customer service positions holding you hostage these days? Recently while making a call to try and order a cable from Sprint (I wanted to have it sent to my school address even though my credit card has a different address), I decided that dealing with a customer service rep who barely spoke English was too much trauma for a stupid cable, and asked that she terminate my order (I hadn't even given her payment info yet). She continued to try and sell me the cable, urging me to hold on just a moment longer. I didn't want to hang up because she knew my account and I'd heard that hanging up on customer service reps is sometimes marked on your account so future reps will know if you're "difficult". This is a family account and I wouldn't want to cause trouble for other people. It took forever to get off the phone.

At least I had the option of hanging up. This poor guy's card was in limbo. I do wonder if he has some kind of case for harassment or similar, but I have no legal knowledge whatsoever so I'm probably just making that up.

That's why, if by the off chance that I do actually show ID (I try my best not to), I won't let the ID leave my hands.

If they don't give me my card back, that's fine: I can call American Express and have a new one overnighted to me. But allowing the Wal-Mart employee to keep an ID is very dangerous.

[insert comment about not shopping at walmart]

I'm going to assume that the non-DL ID that Steve showed John was a state-issued ID. We have this here in Illinois too, for this very purpose: stores that insist on seeing valid ID can get that without seeing all the personal details. Declaring that ID invalid is the problem here. I doubt there are any laws about it, but I'm sure a follow-up with Wal-Mart corporate will eventually result in some "retraining" for Clueless John.

So why are you people going into Wal-mart if you're just gonna complain about it? Doesn't that make YOU the one who's foolish? That said, I did go to Wal-mart since I couldn't find Sanyo eneloop batteries at Target--could've gotten the the power pack from Costco but I don't need that many AA batteries.

Ended up not buying anything, but did notice an older lady standing by the exit with a highlighter (a la Costco), and it appears to be a permanent fixture now. Someone walked right out without stopping (although everything WAS in a plastic bag) and she kinda just nodded her head and pretended (to convince herself) that she had let that customer through and that it was okay by her. How funny!

Anyway, I thought about putting up black tape on my license blocking my ID number, address and birthday (I don't cover the birthdate if going into a club) but haven't done it yet. I wonder how many women gets followed home after a bouncer checks (and memorizes) their home address from their IDs. Scary.

Withholding an instrumentality or property that someone needs to leave might be considered false imprisonment. Walmart is in such a dilemma as far as how to train their people. On the one hand, you want customer facing employees to have enough autonomy to make sure that the customer is treated well. On the other hand, when you pay low wages, you get substandard employees that do not have adequate judgment to exercise discretion. Its a rock and a hard place.

Those employees make me sick.

Anyway, shop or don't shop at walmart. Unless we all band together, walmart will bowl over anyone

Certainly Steve should file a complaint with WalMart corporate about this and make a call to the store manager.

But the best revenge may be to contact any local TV affiliate that has a consumer watchdog feature and work with them do a story about how WM was terribly wrong and to educate consumers about their rights.

Reason 4,452,006 why Wal-Mart sucks. They hand out Medicaid information as a "health plan" and they never tell potential employees they belong to Wal-Mart 24-7 for $8 per hour until AFTER Wal-Mart has all of their personal information. But, they are the fastest company to request information for the "hire former welfare recipients" tax credits. I used to deal with that a lot. The request for food stamp confirmation came the same day as the interview, and the "employee" could never get their schedule until the tax credit form was completed.

AND, they are total thieves, at every level (which you all know). At my local Devil Stand, a guy wrote a check off a just-closed bank account, figured it out within an hour, and went back and wrote another check off the new bank account. The Devil would not give him back the original check and then had him arrested for writing a bad check. And the Devil had already cashed the new check, too. Wal-Mart is the devil.

so... i don't understand. Maybe PA is different, but the State IDs don't have your birth date and everything on them?
How is it "blocked out" ?

I may get some flames for this... try not to take it personally... but if we had spent more time in the 80's and 90's teaching kids to read and to think, instead of playing video games, we'd probably have a higher intelligence work force all around, even at Wal-Mart!

There's also the little piece of information most people forget.

A state issued ID is property of the state. Taking it and not giving it back is a criminal act of varying degrees depending on your state.

Oh c'mon, this sounds like the story from last week about the professor who was an expert on credit... who nothing about credit card disputes.

I'm not saying the OP is wrong, but I am guessing there's part of the story left out here. I believe part of the story was probably a speech from the OP about he was an expert on these matters and made the employees making minimum wage nervous and worried about making a mistake.

Don't get me wrong. The employees had no right to hold his ID and card. And the employees have no clue, some credit cards like MasterCard even forbid requiring showing photo ID to use your card. But I also am betting the OP went overboard as well and created a situation where the employees felt they needed someone in charge. Sometimes when you scare people, they do very stupid things...

From VISA:

Requesting Cardholder ID
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID? although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance . Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID . Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures . Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt .

From MASTERCARD

9.11.2 Cardholder Identification
A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment
of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information, except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder's ZIP or postal code to complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder's address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or e-commerce transaction.

Seems pretty clear to me.

WalMart sucks.

@KogeLiz: Yeah, I don't know what kind of ID that would be, except a temporary ID perhaps. I had a state ID before I had my driver's license, and it looked just like a driver's license except it said "ID" instead of "DL" in the corner.

Beginning of my post should have said: "Oh c'mon, this sounds like the story from last week about the professor who was an expert on credit... who knew nothing about credit card disputes."

I've had my credit card & id held hostage as well by supermarket employees after a purchase was made. They didn't believe that I was the person on the card (must we always look as terrible as our license photos) and said they would require an additional form of ID before I would be allowed to take the beer. She'd already carded me and I'd already paid but another form of ID was suddenly required. I could have my groceries and cards and not the beer but if I wanted to take the beer I'd just purchased they required an additional ID. WTF

The second ID I showed to her and her manager (who agreed with this moron) was my Blockbuster card and somehow that proved all they needed to know.

These people must get off on making us do these things.

If this happens you should jump over the counter and forcibly take your property from the little shit.

The cashier doesn't know the policy and was scared. That's why they got the CSM. While Wal-Mart was at fault here, they're still going to be Wal-Mart and nothing will change here. So hold your ground and gain whatever victory you think you may gain out of this, or show your ID and move on with life. No one will steal your identity from showing your ID......

They shouldn't have held this guy's ID, but this guy is paranoid and defacing his ID by blocking out the address and what not.

To put it bluntly, there are plenty of ways for people to pull up such basic information as your address and birth date. Its public record and services like Lexis can do it with little hassle.

So foor this guy being an expertt on credit card fraud, his actions of defacing his ID seem paranoid.

Oh and isn't it a crime as well to deface your state issued ID? The ID is property of the state and he messed with it. So yeah if you want to call the cops on the Walmart cashier, then throw the book at the guy who defaced his ID by blocking out information on it.

I have a question in regards to this ID policy that both card companies have.. mind you being in Canada also semi-complicates things...

So, what if I, fearing that some *jerk* will go to town with my card if it ever gets stolen or lost... I have the words "CHECK ID" on the back? Does that counter what the companies policy is?

I have that on the back of my VISA since a kid got my card info from a gas station I was filling up at [Read as had a good enough memory to memorize the card # in the very brief time he had the card to swipe it.] and did exactly that. Thankfully the police busted him with my, and several other people's card info... joy of joys. Since then, when I got a new uncompromised card, I put that on the back and have no problem providing proper picture ID with my signature and DOB on it. [Nothing more then that, aside from a notarized signature from a Provincial head] Mind you.. the saddest thing is how little often anyone ever checks the back for that... mind you I do so at work and politely ask for ID when I do see those words.

I honestly would not be happy if I found out that was something I can't do... definitely would be even less happy if some fool tried to hold onto my card as well. [It isn't going to happen unless I KNOW YOU]

Figured I'd bring this to the table as a thought, especially as I intend to visit New Hampshire next month, and while never encountering this problem during previous trips, am now concerned. [I definitely am NOT going to go to Wal-Mart, that's for sure!]

Flip out your cell phone in front of the clerk, and dial 911. "My credit card and ID have been stolen by a clerk at Walmart, and I need immediate police assistance to recover it."

That oughta do it, eh?

@EricaKane: Who said he defaced his ID? You may want to look into reading comprehension classes then start on that GED.

You mark or cover any portion of a state issued ID, thats a defacement of a state issued ID. I already have a degree, thanks.

When asked for a second form of ID by some PFY behind the counter, the one I show is my Concealed Carry License. Surprisingly it usually gets their attention. :o) Rarely do I ever have any sort of problem after that...

@5h17h34d: Just so you can read from the article "So I have a State Issued ID what has my picture, my name, and my signature. Everything that is needed to confirm that is my card. But, all of the other info such as address, birth date, license number has been blocked out for security reasons and are not used to confirm the rightful card holder."

So this guy intentionally blacked his ID out...no way the state issues such a blacked out ID. Sounds like a crime to me.

@Sifl: If you have "check ID" on your card, it is not a valid card and no merchant is required to accept your card. The post office is notorious for rejecting "check ID" cards. The merchant is supposed to request you to sign the card, ask for your ID, and then process the transaction.

As you said,

the saddest thing is how little often anyone ever checks the back for that..

Therefore, your effort is in effect worthless since people rarely check ID. Also, fake IDs are very easy to make.

Credit card companies have advanced methods to prevent fraud. Let them worry about it. With your credit or charge card, you will not be responsible for any fraudulent transactions.

IIRC, in Illinois, if your state-issued ID is taken as a suspected fraud, they are required to contact the police. I think it works either way.

Anyways, that would've been my threat.

Our WalMart actually doesn't go by Visa's no-ID-necessary policy. If you pay with Visa and aren't willing to show ID, then they tell you that you can just do your shopping elsewhere. Which is why I love Winco...

@SayAhh:

He's in a town without a Costco..

I forgot to mention there is a target about 4 minutes away also. lol

The crazy thing is I *almost* never get asked for an ID. I went to get a hair cut at a place in Macy's that was open before the actual Macy's was, and the security guard had a list of names that could go in - including mine. All he did was ask me for my name and never once checked my ID.

Our Wal-Mart is the same way. However, when most stores ask for my ID, and I decline, I do pull out a mini-copy of the Visa merchant agreement, and flip to the section on checking IDs. Most employess don't care, but managers do. However, if they refuse the sale without ID, I just don't shop there anymore.

There is a difference between "blocked out" and "blacked out". The State issued ID he is using never had that information on it in the first place. You can get them in Canada as well, they are basically like a driver's license for people who don't drive so that you can still buy liquor and prove how old you are.

Okay, what's wrong with the this picture - the guy tries to protect his identity as best he can, but is will to let the company that wishes to be Big Brother his credit card at all?????

When dealing with the evil scum that is corporations like Wal-Mart- cash only!

@k8supergrover:

Regular PA State ID's look just like the driver's licenses, with different colors. The exact same information.

@k8supergrover:

And so you are in Canada and know what Pennsylvania ID cards look like? No, this state ID was altered to block (blacked- doesn't make any difference) out information by this individual. That is against state law.

@wildness: I'll keep fraud protections, thanks. If you're scammed and paid cash, you're SOL. If you paid with credit, you get your money back.

I do think the OP should have called the police and filed a theft complaint against the guy, though, the moment he refused to return the card(s).

Can the Consumerist post a summation of the definitive word on showing ID for credit card and/or debit card purchases please? There are too many "experts" here talking off the top of their heads. Which is the best way to protect my ID? Writing "ask for ID"? Not signing the card at all? Always using a pin?

I use this, thanks to Consumerist, and it appears to work.

[consumerist.com]

Y'know, this would be all fine and dandy if the credit card companies would make a credit card that the signature actually stayed on. My signature rubs off within a month and then I have to break out some heavy-duty permanent marker to get anything to even stay on the signature strip... which just rubs off within another month. After a year it is just a black smudge and useless.

As for minimum transaction issues - I totally understand where small businesses are coming from. If it is a large business, fine, stick it to the man. But if it is a small mom and pop - they're getting charged most of their profit. Give'm a break.

This happened to me at Wal*Mart when they refused to accept my government issued ID. They said they ONLY accept a valid Driver's Licenses.

The ID I tried to use was a concealed weapons permit - which is way tougher to get than a driver's license.

They took my ID in back, refused to give it back, and refused to let me even go in the room where they had it. I was told they had to call the police station and verify my identity.

Oh, and here's the kicker: I wasn't even buying anything. It was checked because I was in the vicinity of someone buying cigarettes. Yea. In the vicinity.

I complained of course, but the Wal*Mart manager didn't seem to understand what the problem was and sent me a $20 gift card for my troubles.

Consumerist didn't pick it up when I sent the story to them, but if you'd like to read it - it's here: [gthing.net]

@sam1am: Lesson learned - don't show your ID to anyone but the police.

I sure as hell wouldn't give up my credentials to some retail do-gooder. Not even purchasing anything? Run, don't walk, to the nearest exit. They wont let you out? Then find your way to the nearest emergency exit and set off the alarm in the process.

I was in a store in Florida with my father helping him buy some stuff for his house. His credit card has his picture on the face of the card, but they still asked him for picture ID. He pointed to the picture on the card, which seemed to put the cashier into a loop of confusion for a few moments. When she opened her mouth to ask for ID again, he cut her off and said that's why his picture is PRINTED ON THE FACE OF THE CREDIT CARD. You could tell she really wanted to protest, but my father, a now-retired chief executive, can summon up a tone of voice and bearing that says "don't waste my time with this nonsense and use your head".

I have since moved down to Florida as well, and it seems that at least 75% of the time, I get asked for ID for any card transactions, even for minor purchases. But its not consistent, even at the same stores.

I've supported stores asking for ID in the past, but this is ridiculous. If, as he claims, he showed a valid state-issued ID card with a signature, there should have been no further issue.

Beyond that, I have the solution for this whole ID issue, when done within reason. Have a sign on the front door: XYZ will be required for payment by check. ABC will be required for payment by credit card. Receipts may be required upon exit. Tell prospective, but identity-vigilant, shoppers about these "invasive" policies before they waste their time shopping. Let everyone else reap the benefits of lowered prices due to fewer charge-backs and reduced inventory shrinkage.

I don't get it. I've got no problem with identifying myself, but my ID stays in my wallet, and my wallet stays in my hand, for anyone who doesn't have a badge and a gun.