"Red Light Of Death" Xbox Owner Wants Same Extended Warranty As "Red Ring Of Death" Sufferers
Though Microsoft bowed to a gamer backlash and gave 3-year warranty protection for the widespread Xbox hardware failure known as "The Red Ring of Death," it seems another debilitating malfunction, "The Red Light of Death," hasn't become enough of a PR fiasco to merit the same treatment. Let's help it along with reader Steve's story...
Microsoft's extended warranty for the Red Ring of Death was the "result of what Microsoft views as an unacceptable number of repairs to Xbox 360 consoles." Apparently, the number of Red Light of Death repairs is acceptable.
Ben and Company,Although the extended warranty announcement clearly states that "[a]ll other Xbox 360 warranty policies remain in place," we question the wisdom of not including a similar hardware failure in the repair program. The Red Light of Death, which Microsoft calls Error 74, "occurs when the Xbox 360 console experiences a hardware failure." Microsoft admits that the Red Ring of Death does not result from a specific issue and is simply an indicator of a "general hardware failure," so it makes little sense to cover one large group of hardware failures and not extend similar protection to a similar failure.I have been reading The Consumerist everyday for the last year, it's the first site I visit every morning. Thank you all for a great service. This is the first time I have written in with a tip/complaint.
Microsoft recently extended all warranties to 3 years for all Xbox 360's dealing with the "Red Ring of Death". What you have to read in the fine print though, is that the extended warranty only covers the very specific "3 red lights". No more, no less.
Three days ago my Xbox took a turn for the worst while playing a game of Team Fortress 2. During the match my screen started rapidly flashing green and vertical lines appeared. I figured it was just a glitch so I shutdown the Xbox and restarted, I still had the problem. I tried several different games (Oblivion, Orange Box, Rock Band, GoW, Condemned 2) and every single one of them has lines in the screen. I tried 2 separate LCD TVs and 2 separate video cables. All had the same result, lines in the game-play.. Here are some screenshots.
I then went to turn the Xbox on the following morning and received a flashing red light and an error code on the screen. I looked up the error code online and found this: E74: There is high chance it's a scaler chip problem (the "ANA" or "HANA" chip near the AV cable connection) it can also be caused by a faulty AV cable so check that first. In some cases it is a problem with the GPU
I believe the problem only occurs in areas of the screen that are being rendered 3D by the on-board video. Its pretty obvious that the video and/or motherboard are malfunctioning in some form. If you have a look at the screenshots you will see that all 2D graphics (in-game HUD, dashboard) are all fine, only 3D rendered graphics have the issue.
I called Tech support and they said the new 3 year warranty will not cover this issue. I thought this was pretty outrageous. The Tech said I would have to pay to have the unit shipped and pay to have it fixed. This is obviously a defect in the Xbox. This is my second box (First one RRoD) and has been working with no issues for just over a year.
So now my wallet in $107.00 lighter, and I will be without my console for a month. I have been nothing but an Xbox 360 fan and evangelist. I was the cornerstone for 5 of my friends purchasing the console, and now I have been let down. They took care of my first console with defects but refuse to take responsibility for an obvious manufacturers defect on my latest box.
I think that when its working the Xbox 360 is a great product, anyone trying to decide which console they should buy should take Service and Support in to consideration. My experience has let me down.
Some suggestions for Steve and others who experience the Red Light of Death: call the escalated Xbox support line; if that doesn't work, call Tier 3 escalations. You can also try these executive email addresses; if that doesn't work, email the big guy himself. He might not like it, but it should get results. If none of that works and you paid with a credit card, check if you have extended warranty coverage or if you can use your buyer's protection plan to get a replacement.
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Comments:
I have heard from various sources online that you could of wrapped your console in blankets/towels so it overheated and than red-ringed. Than use the 3 year warranty, which will happen because now your problem is red rings.
Not saying I think this is "right", but if the ends justify the means....
Same thing happened to a launch unit of mine, they fixed it for free when I explained to them what was happening, same as your problem. They sent me a box and got me another unit in a week.
I agree that the application of the warranty doesn't make much sense here, but technically, he's outside the warranty and Microsoft isn't bound to fix it.
It sucks, but Microsoft isn't doing anything wrong here. I sure wouldn't want to be him, though, and I'd be mad if something of mine failed just out of warranty.
@chrisfromnl: i totally agree with you. causing the red ring is probably the easiest way to get his other issue fixed.
"Microsoft admits that the Red Ring of Death does not result from a specific issue and is simply an indicator of a "general hardware failure," so it makes little sense to cover one large group of hardware failures and not extend similar protection to a similar failure."
Yah, but the red ring of death is largely attributed to a poor thermal design. The X-Box 360's were repaired, and then modified with a larger heat sink before being returned to the customer. The extended warranty program is Microsoft taking responsibility for a known deficiency in their design.
In this case you have a plain vanilla hardware failure. I would disagree that it's a similar failure.
Microsoft righted a wrong by extending their warranty for a specific issue but does it mean they should extend it to every other issue too? While I'm sure it sucks he has this issue, it's not covered by the extended warranty.
Let's take this from a different perspective(assuming he is out of the original warranty).
What if his DVD-Tray no longer opened, should he be covered under the "RROD Extended Warranty"? Sure it doesn't cause a RROD but it still failed. What if it was a dead USB port or a fan failed?
How about another analogy.. A car manufactor extends the warranty on a car because of a defect on a certain part. Let's say the transmission. So, my car's motor blows six-months out of warranty, should I get it replaced for free? I mean, they extended the warranty for another problem and another part, so I should get that extended to my part and my problem.
After 5 sick 360s, I decided to sue Microsoft in small claims court. Two days before the court date, Microsoft's legal people called me.
The conclusion I cannot say thanks to my omission being part of the settlement. I did ask them what I should say if people ask, and they said "For anyone who asks about the lawsuit, please tell them that you reached an amicable resolution to your claim with Microsoft, and that the terms of the settlement are confidential."
I hate to agree, but I think IniniTrent is correct. This is obviously a malfunctioning 360, but it's outside their warranty.
Their point that the RRoD is very specific was the entire reason for the extended warranty. It was a rampant defect affecting thousands of their customers. This is a one-off issue though obviously not unique. To have them cover something not a RRoD under the RRoD extended warranty would not be appropriate.
@mikeluisortega
Was your 360 perhaps still within the original warranty?
After 5 sick 360s, I decided to sue Microsoft in small claims court. Two days before the court date, Microsoft's legal people called me.
The conclusion I cannot say thanks to my omission being part of the settlement. I did ask them what I should say if people ask, and they said "For anyone who asks about the lawsuit, please tell them that you reached an amicable resolution to your claim with Microsoft, and that the terms of the settlement are confidential."
@TakingItSeriously: I don't think that the RRoD is "very specific." The Xbox support article I quoted said that there is no one root cause of the RRoD, and that the three red lights are just indicative that there has been a severe hardware failure.
@Televiper: I think that is the main, but not only, cause of the RRoD. The support articles I've read indicate that it's not always the same defect, but a number of hardware failures that can lead to the RRoD. Whether that's true or just Microsoft avoiding admission that there was a defective component (which, I think, would justify a recall), I don't know.
@SomeoneGNU: Sorry to repeat myself, but it's not a specific issue; it's a specific indicator of a variety of hardware failures. I'm not arguing that the extended warranty, as it is, should cover any old hardware failure. Nor am I arguing that it should be surprising that a warranty for a hardware failure signified by three red lights does not cover a hardware failure signified by one red light: I am arguing that if Microsoft is going to extend its warranty to cover a set of hardware failures that leave the system inoperable, it should at least cover similar failures that appear to happen with some frequency, which would include the Red Light of Death.
As unfortunate as the problem is, I have to agree with InfiniTrent, Televiper, and SomeoneGNU. Just because the 360's primary means of communicating is to flash red lights does not mean that the extended warranty should cover all flashing lights. This is just trying to milk a mega-corp for a problem that occurred outside the warranted period.
I'm a committed console player. I've got consoles going back ages. I always own one of each of the current top three consoles on the market. I own an XBox, a PS2, PS3, Game Cube, WII, as well as all the older stuff. I'm a console maker's dream.
But I'm not buying an XBox, no sir, not with all the problems I keep reading about. Not until Microsoft addresses them more transparently.
I keep hearing all these stories about people going through half a dozen 360's, and sometimes still having problems. Setting the cost of that aside, I'm just not up for buying a box that requires that much maintenance - shipping things back and forth and set-up and take-down, it's just too much work. Microsoft is going to have to address these issues before I'll plunk down my money - I don't have time for all this.
Perhaps I'm extremely confused but:
"I am arguing that if Microsoft is going to extend its warranty to cover a set of hardware failures that leave the system inoperable, it should at least cover similar failures that appear to happen with some frequency, which would include the Red Light of Death."
Some frequency? RROD was estimated to be 33% of units shipped, if not higher. How many cases of this problem have come up?
What if the Red Light of Death comes on when the CD-Tray doesn't open? It's a general hardware failure. Not similar enough? What if it's a USB port as I said before?
The point is the only similiarity I see with this is the fact that a red light is used.
He should a make it RRoD by putting the system on a carpet floor right in front of the heating vent. Place barriers around the system to minimize air flow, shut the windows, and crank up the thermostat. Then play Oblivion so that he is continually entering and exiting large areas to force rapid and constant DVD loading. Do that until the damn thing dies.
If you have a dog or a cat, lay them down on the system as well.
@SomeoneGNU: Funny you mention the DVD drive, because mine only opens when its wants to. I'm not kidding. I have to press the button at least 5 times and then jiggle the door in a special way to get it to open. Getting it to close is even harder. When it does close it will open up by itself after a second. Pushing it in manually a couple of times and holding it usually does the trick. After this little dance, once the xbox recognizes the disc, then its all good to go (on most games).
The worst part: I sent my xbox360 back to MS about 6 months after I got it (due to RRoD) but also because of the drive door issue. It was clearly under warranty at the time. I even left a note taped to the xbox explaining that I wanted the drive fixed or replaced. Guess what, they didn't fix it. The fixed the RRoD but the drive door is still messed up (maybe worse). That was over a year ago. Now I cannot send it back because MS doesn't consider that enough of a failure to warrent a replacement. So I'm just stuck with it. The Xbox QA is the worst in video-game history. I'd wager a bet it may be the most badly produced gaming device of all time (past-present-and-future).
Sorry. A single incident does not indicate a systemic design flaw. If it's under warranty, sure they should pay for it. If it's not, well - that's why warranties have a certain duration, especially for electronics.
Not all parts have the same expected lifetime, even if they come off the same assembly line, and the same wafer even. This is why you pay $399 and not $999. As for me? Well, my Xbox has been fine since February 2006. It's a roll of the dice, that's all.
I'm curious what kinds of problems people have had with the PS3. I'm strongly leaning towards it just because of the craziness of the 360's issues.
@Lixie:
*sigh* Should people not happy with their oil change pull their plug and blame it on the oil-lube place? Or plant a bug on their food after they're 3/4th done eating if the waiter accidently said Merry Christmas when they were actually atheists.
The more people "cheat" the system, the more companies will become more defensive with their warranties and more untrusting of the honest consumer.
@Quilt:
I have not heard of any massive problems with the PS3 similiar to the RROD but I am sure they will have problems. Maybe not to the same scale, but nothing is perfect.
I had a very similar problem with my 2nd xBox. My first one got the red ring and was repaired no-problemo. But, the 2nd one turned on, but displayed no picture, so, since the 3 !@#$ red LEDs wouldn't come on, I had to find a summer job (i was 13) to pay for it. I ended up taking all the wallpaper down in a huge 3000+ sq. ft. house. And it was in every room, too. I thought i deserved more than $100, but I was more concerned about Bioshock.
I wasn't a particularly fun experiance.
@world-inferno: Wow, for not having anything to say, you're sure insistent about telling us you have something to share that you don't want to tell us about.
@world-inferno: jesus you are a glutton for punishment! i feel your pain bro. my boy went through 3 so far. which is why i say fuck 360.( i own every other console out there, so fanboys fall back :D im not gonna spend hard earned cash to be playing around with cust service. i got better things to do like play games.
@SomeoneGNU: PS3 and Wii have a failure rate (last I've heard) that is under 3%. The xBox is far above 30%. I love my xBox but it is really just made poorly. I have a friend whose on his FIFTH one!
When the extended warranty covering RROD affected consoles was announced I said it was only a small comfort to those affected by that specific problem. The 360 is a poorly made machine, design and construction, and a greater visible effort should have been made to clean the market of these models. Perhaps a recall even. RROD is the biggest problem but it's not the only one, and MS failed to address the others.
It's true that the dude here simply ran into bad luck, as I have with cell phones, and it's unfortunate. I can say one thing, all-around shoddy hardware is the number 1 reason I do not own (or plan to own) a 360. And I'm sure I'm not alone.
Or you can do what a friend of mine did.
He thought it was a dumb rule that they only accept 3 RRoD and are racist towards the 1 RRoD (poor One red ring).
So he told the reps that his Xbox had 3 RRoD and also said that the 3 RRoD happened once, but the next time it was 1 RRoD. In the end, 360 replaced.
@SomeoneGNU: I meant to say "I am arguing that if Microsoft is going to extend its warranty to cover a set of hardware failures that leave the system inoperable, it should at least cover other similar failures that appear to happen with some frequency, which would include the Red Light of Death." I doubt that this is happening as often as the RRoD.
I'm not arguing that any problem that results in red lights being displayed deserves extended warranty coverage. From what I've read of Xbox error codes, four red lights just means there is a problem with the AV cables and two red lights means the Xbox is overheating: either of these things is usually fixable by the owner. Three red lights signals a general hardware failure, and one red light indicates a hardware failure. I think an argument can be made that some of the single red light failures deserve to be covered under the extended warranty, if the red light indicates a major hardware failure. I would classify a "major" hardware failure as something that leaves the console effectively inoperable, in this case, a video display card or GPU (although I'll admit I might be biased because of my own similar experiences).
I'm curious as to how common this issue really is. I mean we are all aware of the RRoD, has anybody else heard of this problem on other machines?
Dude, should have just picked up the box(remove hard drive and game first) and dropped it from 2 or 3 feet till it red ringed. It would have been so fucked up inside that Microsoft would send you a new one, thats what I did at least. Got the new chip in it and heat sink and everything.
One of the things microsoft did wrong was to keep sending out the launch units. Whenever a RROD console came in they should have straigt up replaced it with a new one.
I didnt relize this would be such a polarizing topic when I sent it in. I would like to state that I didnt, and have not asked for anything from Microsoft. I paid my $107.00, and now I expect to have a 100% functioning Xbox when it returns (fingers crossed).
I completely agree with Alex and think Microsoft is splitting hairs in my case. They shouldnt have released a product they can't stand by.
The main point of my complaint was that I think that Microsoft completly mismanaged my customer experience. I understand that the unit was not under warranty, again I paid my money to have it repaired.
This topic isnt about what Microsoft can or can't do. Its about what they should do, which is provide thier customers with a great experince. Had my experience been personal and great, my initial tip would have been praise, and not a buyer beware warning.
Charge gamers a high price for the console and then charge even more money to get it fixed when it breaks due to defects.
All 360 repairs due to defects, and repairs of defective products in general, should be free as far as I'm concerned. Its not like it is the consumer's fault for buying a defective product!
I've had the E74 error after those bastards supposedly fixed my second RROD console back in Feb. When I got it back and plugged it in it started up with the E74 error but it only happens the first time or two when you start it up. Once it's warm it doesn't happen. The problem is that Microsoft won't repair the console unless it happens everytime so I'm pretty much screwed unless it dies in the next 12 months from RROD again.
Wow, great post! And great comments. I'm happy to see how the readers give each other esteem.
I didn't know that when I sent this tip in, it would be such a polarizing topic. I first want everybody to know that I did not, and have not asked for anything from Microsoft. I paid my $107.00, and now expect to have a 100% working Xbox when I get it back (fingers crossed).
I agree completely with Alex and think that Microsoft is splitting hairs in my case. They shouldn't release a product they can't stand by.
I understand that MS doesn't HAVE to do anything, again I paid my money. This topic isn't about what Microsoft can or can't do. It's about what they SHOULD do. They should provide a great customer experience for everybody who buys their products. Had they done this in my case, this would have been a post of PRAISE, and not yet another, buyer beware.
Excalate the issue. You should be able to get MS to Fix an out of warranty system for $75.
I own 4 xbox 360s. One of them has been sent to MS 3 times now. The other 3 have not gone back to Microsoft.
I have had a similar issue with Microsoft Tech Support. I believed that my disc drive was failing because my xbox would go to the dashboard during game play saying it could not read my disc. This was peculiar when the disc brand new game with zero scratches. This particular Xbox was my second one since my first was RROD and have had since launch. Apparently they told me the original warranty applies from the first xbox and is covered over to my replacement. Therefore i would have to pay $107 for the fix. So does this mean they can send me an Xbox and not extend atleast a one year warranty.
Unfortunately many of the error codes listed under 1-light can be attributed to user error. Microsoft would be opening up a can of worms on that one. It's too bad Microsoft has never published a real list of error codes instead of the trouble shooting tips we have now.
@Televiper: Agreed. I think it was pretty arbitrary of them to do it that way. Maybe differentiating between one red light "hardware failure" and three red lights "general hardware failure" was foresight of what would eventually be covered and what wouldn't, but I think this situation shows they didn't do a very good job distinguishing the failures. I also think it's sad that they even needed to.
@InfiniTrent: Actually making a piece of shit console that breaks so damn often is what MS did. Thus far it's 18 failed 360's among 16 people (2 guys had multiple failures). I think thats a rather poor product. I'm still waiting for a refurb after mine red ringed.
I know this isnt a REAL solution, but come on. If that happened to me I would just make it get the rrod. You dont even have to use towels. Just leave it on for like 24hrs straight.
@fenderfuel08: They could argue that the 360's reputation for reliability is very very low so you should have known better :D....
Wow - I just assumed the 3-year extension was just that - an extension of the warranty to a three year term; not just one specific category problem area.
You know, I've been on the fence for a long time about getting one of these, and had pretty much decided I would make the jump when a new more robust design might be announced (whenever that might be). But no, this pushes me right over the fence. No way I'm buying something this expensive (count the games too!) from a company that, despite almost limitless resources, simply refuses to apply even the most modest amount of quality control in their manufacturing process.
They've had more than enough chances to get this right. It's going to be a real sorry sight once those 3 year extended "warranties" start to dry up. Someone might ought to start now digging that massive "dead-360" grave as it's gonna fill up really quick - and get really ugly really fast! :-P
Are you *sure* you only saw 1 light? Are you sure you didnt' really see 3 lights?
no offense but if u dont want to suffer dont buy american/chinese products check the news china has bad quality control for its products and america is a corporations dream u pay the gov millions and u can do what u want kind of sad to see usa begin to fall to corruption but capitolism isnt deisgned to last long but yeah if u dont want to suffer stick to japanese products/german and so on but if corporations want to play cheap as did microsuck releaseing this faulty pice of $H!T then we have the right to get pay back any way we can//// if some dude cheats with ur gf cheat with his ///microsoft aint suffering financially so do it ////just so u all know i had a xbox 360 i was loyal till i had to rip the thing open and get my gamefly rented disk out due to i canceled my suscription all future 360 buyers look up 360 failure rates and info its surprising what microsoft can cover up with butt loads of money
@GregoriRasputin: Most "japanese" products are made in China. China is huge, some places do awesome jobs so don't. What China has is a lot of western low ballers. Mattel goes to them and say "alright we know you sell X for Y but We'll buy Z amounts of X for 1/2 Y. interested?" Chinese factory guy can't say no because Mattel is their only customer so they have to cut corners to make any money. It's a common story and Mattel should also put Q/A proccess in place.
My DS, my PSP, my PS3, PS2, Wii and most of my computer was made in china, no huge failures yet.
@InfiniTrent: But warranties are for normal component failure. All of the issues on the xbox is due to the lack of heat dissipation. So everything fails much faster due to the design flaws. Which means Microsoft should be fixing this.
Headline should probably read
"Red Light Of Death" Xbox Owner Wants Same Extended Warranty As "Red Ring Of Death" Sufferers
rather than
"Red Light Of Death" Xbox Owner Wants Same Extended Warranty As "Red Light Of Death" Sufferers
But otherwise - I completely agree with the post. Glad I haven't had such issues with the Wii - even Brawl worked like a charm.