There are few companies that we love more than Netflix. Usually their service and support are top-notch among DVD renters. However, Consumerist Forums reader “muffinman” has a concern. He has been receiving what he believes are counterfeit DVDs and has some compelling photo evidence. Please help us crack the case and tell us what you think. His letter and pictures inside…
Hey everybody,
I know Netflix is usually pretty cool about problems but today I received a couple discs and for the fourth time now- they’re copies. Not even good ones. I called them once again and was ‘personally’ assured that ‘human eyes check every disc that comes back’ and that they could not be fakes. Its easy to spot them, the labels are wrong, usually obviously home-made, the menus work incorrectly, etc.. they’re shoddyHere’s the brief history of the 4 incidents:
“Bleach” discs 6 & 7 -Early Feb- Netflix apologized, sent me a bonus disc. That’s right, ONE bonus disc for two horked ones.“Full Metal Alchemist” discs 2, 3, 4- End of Feb – Netflix guy questions how i could know if a disc is fake. I offer to send pictures, he says that’s not possible. Apologizes and sends bonus disc.
“Full Metal Alchemist” disc 6 – Mid March – This one is from the same batch of fakes as the last. Netflix again questions how I could possibly know its fake. Offer to send pictures of this one, again told no and offered replacement disc.
“Bones” discs 3 & 4 – 4/26/08 – I’m willing to admit i might be wrong on these. If i’m right, these fakes are less obvious but the episodes don’t match up. Says 7-10 but its actually 6-9. Even better, Netflix has taken the actual Bones discs which are two-sided, and given me maybe-bootlegs that are one-sided. So, for example, the real disc 2 has episodes 7-10 on side A & 11-12 on side B. But these are one-siders they sent me, so (even if they are not “fakes”) i still had to waste a disc just to get the WHOLE one. Shady at best, Netflix.!
Here is a “Bones” season 1, disc 3 DVD. Muffinman says it has a paper label. If it is a Netflix split disc should it say Netflix on it?
Here is a genuine “Bones” disc 2 from Blockbuster. Note the only writing is in the center of the disc. (below)
Left: A genuine “Full Metal Alchemist” disc 3. Right: Suspected fake “Full Metal Alchemist” disc 2. Both are from Netflix. (below)
Muffinman also says the play surfaces look normal and silver to him, not purple colored. We aren’t familiar with Netflix’ policy on splitting out double discs and whether they should be marked with a Netflix logo is unclear. We have never heard of paper labels being used in any professional application. What say you, Consumerists? Are these discs legit?
Netflix sending bootlegs? [Consumerist Forums]
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@Jason Ferguson:
Agreed.
I have no clue, but i’ve seen the gray discs MANY times and have never assumed that their pirated by either users (not worth the work for the average movie thief) or especially netflix (why the HELL would they do that? they like the inside of courthouses?)
the logical, most likely deduction (as others have made) is that they buy BULK from the studios/distributors and both sides have agreed that it’s a waste of money and their profits to rent pretty disks. you watch and return. nobody cares about the disk aesthetic.
it MUST be as simple as that.
I have also noticed that smaller movies (indie or not huge hits) ARE the fancy discs as – again if you think about it – both netflix and the studios aren’t even gonna press enough of them to worry about gigantic orders and discounts.
@esd2020: actually there are special licenses for renting movies. when I worked at Blockbuster, the dvds cost over 100 a piece becasue they were to be rented out. otherwise places like blockbuster would only have to rent each disc 4 times to turn a profit, not 20 times…
Netflix probably bought rights to make copies of movies they’re licensed to rent, up to the point where they have a certain number of copies in circulation. This isn’t rocket science.
xtc.. sorry but that’s wrong. There have been court cases that reaffirm no special license is needed to rent a movie. It is completely legal within current copyright laws (until the MPAA can buy new ones).
[entrepreneurs.about.com]
I work for a major studio in the department that supplies masters to Netflix. I also have a friend at netflix that coordinates the duplication and licensing for movies, AND I have a friend that writes the reviews for the netflix movies.
Ok, Here’s how it works. The studio works out a license agreement on each title with netflix , this is established before ANY copies or formatting is done with the masters. The masters are supplied to netflix and the duplication is done at a duplication facility. I’m sure they can work to get just copies of the movies in their regular packaging if that comes out to be a better price per unit However, it is VERY likely that you will get something that appears to be a fake.
The paper labels are just cheap… We used those for a while, but the laser on the DVD is much nicer but costs a little more. So.. more than likely you have a cheap dub that came from lightening dubs or something where they still use paper labels.
This whole thing is lame, because there is not some conspiracy about Netflix making copies… this is just how it works with the studios and vendors. I’m sure netflix throws away a TON of dvd’s everyday. a disk traveling through the mail, sitting on someone’s floor with kids trampling all over it for a month or more, and then having it returned through the mail. They are bound of throw some of them out. So, having a cheaper duplication rate and cheap labels actually makes sense.
Netflix has been doing this for a couple of years. They do buy in bulk (how else can they meet demands with so many customers?) I heard they buy a bulk of 20,000 copies for something like $50k per title. I have gotten tons of these and the movies work just fine – I don’t think the person who rented these knew how the menus worked.
@haroldetmaude: Sounds about right to me – Lightning Dubs would be the place to get their work done.
@TheManator: All they have to do is put on the title of movie, disc name (if needed), and copyright information.
@pastabatman: amen!
I don’t care what the disc looks like! I rented it to watch the movie, not ogle the label.
4.3gb versions of DVD’s are copies/bootlegs from soneones (i.e. Not Netflix’s) computer that some clown has compressed, copied and returned the copy to Netflix.
Commercial DVD’s are dual layered and are 7+ GB and will not copy on a cheap dvd burner (you need a dual layer burner and dual layer disks)
These are absolutely bootlegs. I’m certain because the covers of those discs are done in the exact same way that my friend who gets bootlegs look like. It might be a certain customer doing it, Netflix should definitely look into it.
@montag007: Movie DVDs have always been dual layer. That’s why you’ll see a small pause in the middle of some movies.
I think Netflix is buying “volume” copies, which have very plain labels. I’ve noticed that on many movies I’ve received lately, they all have rather dull looking labels. Do I really care? No. Though I don’t buy many DVDs new anymore, I would rather prefer them use the more plain looking labels and packaging just to keep the price down. Its not like I hang them on the wall for decoration.
I just don’t think that Netflix would risk their ass on something like bootlegging.
But I also don’t believe that a person looks at every disk or could be expected to know what the disc art for thousands of movies should look like. What seems more likely to me is that either a) they are buying wholesale lots that aren’t manufactured as well or b) people are ripping the discs and putting the copy back in the sleeve. But B seems kind of far fetched to me, so I’m going with option A.
Anyone who thinks that Netflix is bootlegging is an idiot, and I really don’t think it was anyone’s intention either.
If they ARE bootlegs, then all that anyone was implying was that Netflix bought some discs from a wonky distributor in Bootlegistan.
just because something is on a single layer disc does not mean that it is a copy, there are plenty of commercial DVDs that are single layer…
certainly not outside the realm of possibility that someone “traded up” by renting anime discs and returning their old bootlegs. This could explain why the discs are not blue/purple. But just cause it’s got a wonky menu doesn’t mean its a bootleg, whatever company released the disc may have just botched the menus.
several studios are making low-budget versions of dvd’s for netflix without all the extra features and easter eggs so that there’s still an incentive to buy the real thing at full price. i think the cheapo labels and practically disposable discs are along the same lines.
Be kind, rewind.
The supposed unofficial discs look just like the Sony DVD+R versions you can get at the local Costco in my area. Plain white, ready for an inkjet printing.
Sometimes the DVD rental companies get different versions than reatil. I would only be worried if the suspected discs were single layered, while knowing the retail version came on a double layered disc. Your not getting an official copy if the movie is compressed.