A Pizza Hut delivery driver with a valid handgun permit has been fired after he shot an armed robber who put a gun to his head and demanded he turn over his cash. Now an Iowa state senator is calling for a boycott of Pizza Hut:
“You tell me any Iowan that was in his situation, that had a gun put to his head, how they would’ve reacted differently,” state Sen. Brad Zaun of Urbandale said. “I think it’s the wrong decision by Pizza Hut and I will not be buying any more Pizza Hut products.”
Pizza Hut says it’s against company policy for delivery drivers to carry guns, even with a valid permit.
“We’re doing all that we can to help him with the transition,” Pizza Hut spokesperson Chris Fuller told the Des Moines Register. The driver, James William Spiers III, was offered two months pay (without tips, naturally) and counseling in exchange for his resignation.
“I was terminated, but they’re not going to kick me to the curb,” he said Friday. “When they terminated me, I had asked if they could provide me with counseling. That’s all I asked for.”
The robbery suspect, 19-year-old Kenneth Jimmerson, was shot three times but is alive and “was arrested when he later called for medical help.” He and another suspect (who is accused of calling in the pizza order), are both in the local county jail.
Pizza Hut delivers pink slip to employee held at gunpoint [Des Moines Register] (Thanks, David!)
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@MDSasquatch: The delivery driver wasn’t breaking any laws. He had a permit, he’s allowed to carry it by law. The only rule he’s breaking is one set by his employer, which wouldn’t apply in court.
The suspect on the other hand, attempted armed robbery. Spilling coffee on your lap is one thing, but attempting murder and suing?
He broke policy. He also saved Pizza Hut the liability of having a driver killed while out on delivery.
As a former HR director I would have suspended him with pay (no tips), while encouraging him to find a better (read: different) job or offered him a kitchen job instead. I would have followed it up with a carpet bomb to all stores reiterating company policy, and stressing zero tolerance.
By doing this you can:
- reinforce company policy
- avoid any negative PR
- acted in a way that was morally/ethically correct
What PH did was make what was a PR disaster that was averted, and not only drew attention to it but made it worse through their HR bungholery.
I guess it is the product of an overly litigious society.
@FightOnTrojans:
I think you said it best, actually. Yeah it sucks that he lost his job (delivering pizzas, people, c’mon) over the matter, but in the bigger scheme of things? PH does not want to condone this behavior in any way; it’s a BIG liability issue.
they’re helping the guy out. I think PH is probably right on this one: Let the guy take the damned pizza and whatever low stash of cash the guy has and be done with it. Not worth all the other possible costs to have drivers armed. And if you DO feel like packing heat, go ahead; just be aware that if you DO shoot somebody, your employer is probably not going to say “good job Joe-Schmoe!”
Everyone wants to be Rambo, but the reality is that someone’s going to shoot the wrong person and much will go wrong from that.
@flamincheney:
“He broke policy’
Heaven forbid he try to keep himself from being killed on the job.
“As a former HR director I would have suspended him with pay (no tips), while encouraging him to find a better (read: different) job or offered him a kitchen job instead. I would have followed it up with a carpet bomb to all stores reiterating company policy, and stressing zero tolerance.”
I have zero tolerance for stupidity. I will never buy from Pizza Hut again until they apologize and offer him his job back.
“- acted in a way that was morally/ethically correct”
In actuality, quite the opposite.
@Dobernala:
Don’t get me wrong I am totally condemning Pizza Hut for what they did. All I was saying is that there were ways of handling this in house that would have benefitted all parties.
They essentially made bad decisions.
I would boycott Pizza Hut, but haven’t been there since sometime in the late 1980′s
“PH does not want to condone this behavior in any way; it’s a BIG liability issue.”
Pizza Hut isn’t condoing bad behavior. The driver acted in legitimate self-defense. He was almost killed by the robber.
“they’re helping the guy out.”
Yeah, I guess telling people that they should allow themselves to be shot instead of defending themselves is “helping the guy out” LOL!
“I think PH is probably right on this one”
Pizza Hut will be seeing no more of my or my family’s business.
“Not worth all the other possible costs to have drivers armed.”
But is it worth a nationwide boycott?
“Everyone wants to be Rambo, but the reality is that someone’s going to shoot the wrong person and much will go wrong from that. “
What does defending yourself against someone who is threatening to kill you have to do with being “Rambo”? Do you even know what the Rambo character was, in comparison to the Pizza Hut driver? Idiot.
If this guy got a new job at Walmart would you show your receipt?
@flamincheney: You would have suspended him. That is all I need to hear and that would be enough for me to say “no more” to your business.
You put your pocketbook ahead of someone’s personal safety. Scumbag.
Many years ago I delivered pizza. One afternoon one of the girls who normally made pizzas took a delivery to a local bank. She was found dead a few hours later. It is a dangerous job. If I did it today I would carry a gun.
I used to work for one, and it is against policy to carry any weapons, even mace or tasers.
In the end it was a stupid thing to do, your own life is not worth the $100 (drivers are not supposed to carry over this amount). He should have just given up the cash and contacted police.
Granted, given the opportunity to cap a piece of **** robber I probably would have too.
Pizza Hut’s handling of the situation seems pretty sloppy though. Meh, their pie sucks anyways.
@Dobernala: So you’re saying all pizza delivery drivers should be carrying handguns?
I’m glad they don’t put you in charge.
@Dobernala: Almost killed and threatened are two different things. It’s likely he would’ve been fine with no gun by handing over the money.
At least the guy he shot was a real “winner”
[profile.myspace.com]
That profile just screams “I’m going to have 10 kids and live on welfare for the rest of my life”.
While I don’t agree with their policy, I think they haven’t done anything wrong by firing him for breaking the rules of his employment. I actually give them credit for giving him pay and the counseling.
Last time I got fired, they just told me to leave and that they would send my last paycheck.
Their pizza sucks as is. This is another reason to not buy from them, thanks consumerist.
“It’s likely he would’ve been fine with no gun by handing over the money.”
It’s attitudes like this that embolden these lowlifes.
Pizza Hut ought to change their policy. If the driver defended himself with a knife, or with the thug’s gun, he wouldn’t have been fired? That’s ridiculous. Their no gun policy is simply so they don’t attract negative PR at the risk of their drivers who are able to defend themselves.
@Diet-Orange-Soda:
How do you know he would have been fine if he just handed over the money? Is some piece of human debris has the wherewithall to hold a gun to your head, what’s to say he doesn’t have the stones to go ahead and kill you once he has the money, if for no other reason than to leave no witness? You people that think that “just do what they say and they’ll leave me alone” truly scare me. What’s it like being a doormat?
If I find myself delivering pizza for a living at age 38, I’ll shoot MYSELF.
@mmcnary: And some are explicitly designed for that purpose.
Pizza Hut was within their rights. I’m glad for his sake on that day that he was armed, but he might have done as well to carry a taser or mace, which might not be banned and would’ve protected him.
@flamincheney: There are studies out there that show that when concealed-carry laws exist such that you don’t know who is carrying and who isn’t, deaths actually go DOWN. If you know that your intended victim is NOT carrying for sure, that person has a higher chance of being killed due to not offering resistance/fighting back.
@flamincheney: He saved his own ass. There’s always a fat chance that garbage of a human being would’ve still shot him.
Have a gun? Shoot him. Thanks for ridding the world of yet another defficient human being.
I won’t boycott Pizza Hut… Because I never eat their crappy pizza anyway.
“Since then the Deliverator has kept the gun in the glove compartment and relied, instead, on a matched set of samurai swords, which have always been his weapon of choice anyhow. The punks in Gila Highlands weren’t afraid of the gun, so the Deliverator was forced to use it. But swords need no demonstration.”
I don’t buy from these guys anyway. Oh, and I don’t live in Iowa either.
@FightOnTrojans: nah… see, now you’re criminalizing someone that is not a criminal. If the gentleman would at least get suspended, in the time being he can for sure get counseling and briefed on departmental policies.
…and something tells you this guy would carry the gun anyway?
What exactly is that ‘thing’ that tells you that?
Do you know the guy personally?
So is Pizza Hut’s policy specifically against guns, or is it against self defense in general?
Either way, they’re wrong.
@fordpickup: Personally, I would rather not have coworkers toting guns around. Remember when postal workers had a high mortality rate due to the instability of their peers?
Right. Because if one of your coworkers decides he’s going on an office shooting spree, your company’s “no guns allowed” policy is totally going to stop him.
Idiot.
So why not just hand over the money? Other than the tips, it’s not his money. Chances are he wouldn’t get shot if he just handed over the money.
@xint: I didn’t say anything about sending him to jail or making him pay a fine.
The “thing” that’s telling me that he would continue to carry is the idea that, if I were in his shoes, and carrying a gun saved my life, I would probably continue carrying the gun, rules be damned. I still won’t fault PH for their actions here. The quality of their product, OTOH, is a different issue.
There’s an important question that hasn’t been asked, as far as I’ve seen. Who owned the car?
If the driver owned the car, then Pizza Hut doesn’t really have any say on what he carries in the car. It may be a company policy, but how is the policy worded? May not carry a weapon while on the clock, or while on Pizza Hut property? I’m betting it is the latter.
My company forbids weapons on site. However, if I’m driving somewhere for a meeting, the policy does not forbid me from keeping a firearm in the glove box.
@synergy: There has been more than one occasion of a robbery going bad after workers paid up – I can remember one not long ago in NYC, at a BK. The clerks gave the robbers the money, and to thank them for their trouble, the bastards tied up and shot the clerks in the back room.
So no, handing over the money is not a guarantee that you’ll survive.
I really hate these idiotic blanket policies.
Yeah yeah yeah, its generally accepted that an employee of almost all companies should not carry a firearm/weapon while on the job, BUT some jobs are inherently dangerous & a dont ask, dont tell policy should be tolerated. Dont ask if I have a gun & i wont tell……AND if I am FORCED to use it to legitimately save my life…. then give me a slap on the wrist & let me keep my job. Would you prefer I DIE for my job?
I have carried firearms while working security jobs in the past. Without my employer’s knowledge on some, because the job was potentially dangerous. You’d be amazed at how some security companies will just basically have you work a VERY dangerous post with nothing but a flashlight to protect yourself. Its idiotic. They care more about their own liability issues than they do their employee’s safety…. in other words, they prefer you die than you protect yourself & possibly invite a lawsuit.
If you don’t want to follow the company’s policies, work for a different company. It’s that simple. Kudos to Pizza Hut.
It actually scares me to let an armed stranger in or near my house.
Wouldn’t most people order from the pizza company that doesn’t have armed deliverymen?
@ecwis: No, I’d rather order from the pizza joint with the friendly delivery man, who gets me my pizza on time, possibly stopping to grab me a six pack on the way, so I can give him a huge tip. I don’t give a damn if he’s carrying – as long as the guy’s friendly, and especially if he’s willing to go above and beyond, that’s the place I order from.
@officeboy: Moderately good try, but points off for minor grammatical errors and trying to cram too many troll-topics into too short a post. 6/10
@Moosehawk: “The driver went against the rules and carried a hand gun with him on deliveries. If he had delivered my pizza I probably would have been a little scared.”
My guess is that if the robber that put a gun to the driver’s head came to your house, you would be a lot more scared.
I think it’s largely good that some of the drivers are legally carrying concealed weapons. It no doubt provides a deterent to would be robbers for the rest of the delivery people. Except for the Pizza Hut drivers, that is…the word is out that they are required to be unarmed.
@AD8BC:
Don’t you know the definition of a conservative? It’s a liberal that’s been mugged.
I have worked for lots of companies that prohibit employees from possessing weapons, sadly it seems to be standard boilerplate. Mace, Taser, even pocket knives could count in a typical interpretation.
I have a CHL and company policies are certainly a factor when deciding where to work.
As for putting coworkers and customers in danger, that’s hogwash. The licensee should understand the concept of a proper holster. The licensee shouldn’t handle the weapon in a public place. A handgun properly secured in a holster is NOT going to discharge if it is left alone.
@Moosehawk: The very nature of concealed carry means that anyone you meet could be carrying. If that concerns you, never go out in public.
You’re not supposed to even draw your gun unless you are in real danger. So you should not know who is/isn’t carrying unless something happens.
While there may be liability for Pizza Hut if a driver shoots someone…what about the liability of denying an employee the means of self defense while occupied in a dangerous job, but not providing that employee any protection to replace what is lost by corporate fiat? Wrongful death suit, anyone?
Gosh, when I used to deliver pizza my best friend/coworker was carjacked and beaten within an inch of his life. It was a fake order… wouldn’t have happened if management did a call-back. He got away by scaling a fence topped with barbed wire while the bad guys were distracted with trying to run him over with his own truck. My coworker ran to the first building he saw which… ta-da…. just happened to be the police heliport. The cops were in the air in minutes and caught the guys. There were 3 other drivers from different pizza places that they had done this to. They each got 25 year sentences. My friend was in the hospital for 2 weeks.(KPJB – you’re still my hero, even though you turned into a dick.)
What I wonder is, what other policies did Pizza Hut decide it was ok to ignore that put this driver in harms way to begin with? Like the call-back policy… did they ignore that? Have they fired the manager for not doing the required call-back?
@Whitey Fisk: I agree. If he was driving his own vehicle, which I’m sure he was since Pizza Hut rarely has their own fleet, then it was his right to defend himself.
Parts of Des Moines are kinda crappy and carrying a weapon might not be a bad policy if you’re carrying around lots of money and food.
I’ve always wondered what would happen if a guy was getting mugged and pulled out his own weapon and capped them.
On a serious note, what would have happened if he murdered the guy who put the gun to his head? Would get lots of jail time or would he get off in self defense?
He should be able to get another job after Pizza Hut fired him.
@ceejeemcbeegee:
hah
ioWHAT now biiiiiiitch?
@fordpickup: That was a media fallacy, according to the CDC “Extensive media coverage of work-related homicides at U.S. Postal Service facilities raised the concern about whether postal workers are at increased risk for work-related homicide, particularly from those committed by disgruntled coworkers. Based on national surveillance data, neither the Postal Service industry nor postal occupations are among the groups at increased risk for work-related homicide”
[www.cdc.gov]
I would rather have guns in the hands of responsible law abiding citizens.
Apparently Pizza Hut would rather be sued by the family of an employee killed on the job than the family of a criminal killed by one of there employees in self defense. It probably has more to do with insurance statistics and PR than anything else…
@kylo4: It would probably be self defense. Generally once your life is in danger you’re allowed to respond with deadly force. In some states (e.g., Florida) your life doesn’t even have to be in danger; you just have to feel threatened.
@ClayS: I think the correlary is that a liberal is a conservative who’s just been downsized.
@ecwis: It actually scares me to let an armed stranger in or near my house.
That’s unfortunate. Why are you so afraid? I’m an armed stranger. I’ve never hurt anyone. You know, guns are no scarier than knives. In fact, more people get hurt every day from knives than from guns. Yet I’m willing to bet you invite people to your home and hand them knives with which to cut their dinner on a regular basis.
Don’t be afraid of guns. Don’t even be afraid of the people carrying them. Most of us are good, level headed people.
@D-Bo: I think it has to do with them not wanting their employees to get killed in order to save the company a couple hundred bucks. In almost every situation it’s safer to just hand over the money than to try to play hero. Not saying that was necessarily the case this time, but those are the way the odds shake out.
The ex-employee agreed to the PH rules in exchange for employment. As a private entity PH is allowed to limit the actions of their employees. If PH wants their employees to wear a pink tutu with matching thong the employees must abide by the PH dress code or seek a new job. Coversely if PH prohibits an employee from wearing a D button adverstising D’s Tuesday special, PH is well within their rights as a private entity.
PH has a rule about firearms. Whether the employee agrees or disagrees with the rules, as an employee the rules must be followed or risk losing the job.
The employee violated the terms of his employment, the employee lost his job. Absolutely correct action.