Praying is nice but you should try not to disrupt the entire flight with your holiness. WNBC says an Orthodox Jewish man got up from his seat while passengers were still boarding, and walked to the back of the United Airlines flight where he began praying. His friend said the prayers lasted approximately 2 minutes. When flight attendants asked the man to return to his seat so the plane could take off, he ignored them.
WNBC has an eyewitness report:
“He doesn’t respond to them, but his friends explain that once you start praying you can’t stop,” said Brafman, who was seated three rows away.
When the man finally stopped praying, he explained that he couldn’t interrupt his religious ritual and wasn’t trying to be rude. But the attendants summoned a guard to remove him, said Brafman, a writer who had been visiting New York to talk to publishers.
United confirmed that the man was removed from the flight and placed on another one.
Praying Passenger Removed From Flight At JFK [WNBC]
(Photo:Travelin’ Librarian)
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@Buran: Man dude, we need to stop agreeing on stuff. We were supposed to hate each other, now I feel like buying you a drink….
TGIF my friend.
Wahhhhhh. Flight attendants have power. Wahhhhhh. Tell you-all what. If you were at least polite to more people in the service industries you’d have better luck. FAs are not there to sit your lardy @sses down and fluff your pillows. They are there to get your pokey, stoopid bods out as fast as possible. Look at crash reports and note that the FAs do the majority of saving passengers.
Oh, Mr Religious can’t listen. Bull. If you read the Koran, there are exceptions to the prayers and the times for saying them. I highly doubt that Orthodox differ much.
Imagine if you will, store clerks having the authority to remove you. Think on this.
Look, there are so many ways that this guy could have handled the situation better.
He could have asked the flight attendant as he was boarding if it was alright to pray for a couple of minutes at the back of the plane while everyone else was being seated.
He could have prayed in the terminal before getting on the plane and simply been one of the last to board.
As many observant Jews have pointed out in this thread, he could have slightly delayed his prayers until the plane was in the air, or even prayed in his seat. I’m sure G-d wouldn’t have minded, as long as the proper intent was there.
Instead he took it upon himself to disrupt the boarding process without notifying the flight attendants. They had no idea what was going on or how long he’d be there. Unless they themselves were orthodox Jews, they wouldn’t have been familiar with the process at all. Meanwhile, they are responsible for the safety of the passengers and for ensuring that the boarding process is quick and orderly.
Perhaps it was a bit of an overreaction to call the airport cops right away and to throw the guy off the plane, especially after his friends spoke to them, but it’s not unreasonable for them to expect that their instructions will be carried out, considering that the safety of the passengers is their responsibility.
A bit of idiocy on both sides, but on balance my sympathy lies with the flight attendants.
He should have said he was praying that the airline would not file Chapter 11 in midflight, then the attendants would probably have joined him.
Perhaps this is overly simplistic, but why couldn’t he have gone into the bathroom? It’s private. Also, stewardesses are usually a little more relaxed if someone needs an extra minute or two.
Obviously not the most aesthetic choice. (It may even be forbidden by the rules of the Talmud. My knowledge of The Laws is limited). But isn’t it most important that your prayers be heartfelt and directed to God?
Creating a situation in which your private moments with your deity cause public disruption makes a mockery of the whole thing.
Also, to the untrained ear, Hebrew could sound Arabic. An unfamiliar religious ritual in a middle-Eastern language could cause dangerous panic on an airplane.
@AD8BC: Oh yeah. I’ll see that TGIF and raise you a “Can I go home now?”
@humphrmi:
Thanks very much for the clarification. I had figured that whatever the prayer/dietary rules were, that there were exemptions that applied to people in various circumstances like pregnant/infant/diabetic/soldier/etc.
I wouldn’t want my flight delayed so some guy could pray…
So I asked my Rabbi about this. The rules about prayer times are based on so many inaccurate measurements they almost aren’t usable, for instance:
1. The prayer times are based on the lunar calendar, which does not correlate in any way to the Julian calendar we (the diaspora) follow.
2. The prayer times are based on lunar coordinates in Israel and then extrapolated to Julian calendar times in the rest of the world.
3. For crying out loud, the rules about reciting the Amidah are obscure enough – “morning, afternoon, and evening” – and the definitions of those times are left to the Rabbi of the person reciting the prayer. It differs from synagogue to synagogue, even within a particular “movement” of Judaism.
I think this guy felt his religious obligation was to make Amidah at that time, in that circumstance, but it was wrong. No Jew is required to interfere with the flight operations of a major airline. We don’t even believe in hell for crying out loud, the worst that happens is we have to say a few extra blessings during the flight.
OY!
How many commenter’s would go and ask their Rabbi about a posting?
@Geminijinx07: And booting him for that reason is very justifiable. What if they were in flight and the seat belt light came on? Is he still going to ignore everything around him? It’s dangerous to have someone on a plane that will put their religion in front of their own safety and everyone else’s safety.
@ChuckECheese: Oh yeah, you’re right about the 2 minutes. Sorry. Still and all, it probably would have behooved him to tell the flight attendants what he would be up to in advance rather than rely on his friends to explain why he’d gone into an unresponsive, trance-like state – I mean since he “couldn’t” just speak for himself once the praying started. This guy was in a world of his own.
@humphrmi: Oy, indeed. I was tempted, but then I realized it’d come out “So this guy got kicked off of a flight, and he was praying, and people argued about it on the internet, so…”
@EyeHeartPie: I don’t disagree with you about this specific case. I just said that I have come across many people who claim to be open-minded, who then proceed to ridicule and insult people for believing in the “Imaginary Sky Fairy”, or “Imaginary Friend in the sky” (ala Amy Alkon above). Some of these “open-minded” people believe that everyone should be free of religion, whether they like it or not.
You are mistaken if you think I agree with you. Religion belongs in your church, your home, or in your head. Non-believers no more want to hear you pray in public than we want to see you picking your nose. There are certain things that should only be done in private.
And what you are asking for is reverence, not respect. The respect your or others’ religious views deserve is the right to have it, nothing more. Your religion deserves the same respect as your taste in music, clothes, or politics: they are all open to valid criticism when you display them in public.
Those who call your “god” a sky pixie respect your right to have beliefs, despite what you are trying to claim.
I agree that religious people should not be allowed to impose on others, but is praying in a public park an imposition?
So by your argument, if two people on a plane near your children were, instead of praying, using profanity in conversation or discussing a pornographic movie they recently saw, that would not be an imposition on you or your children. Or are you demanding two different standards depending on whether you agree with the person in question?
And since you got it wrong twice, it’s *closed minded*. Close (“z” sound) is a verb, and close (“s” sound) is an adjective meaning near. The adjective *closed* means shut.
@ Geminijinx07
You are so pro-religion that it frightens me.
Let’s take a look at what was happening here. Someone was on a plane, where 99.9% of people, even if never traveling via plane before, know that they should get on, stow their luggage and sit down (if only to get out of the way) until the plane takes off.
Then someone randomly stands up and, after being told to return to their seat, they refuse/don’t respond (I don’t know which).
I don’t care what they were doing, or what their friends said they were doing. This is a problem.
I really don’t know what the fact that this was a religious act has to do with anything. And perhaps that’s what being a secular nation means. We don’t (with we being the flight attendants in this case) have to put up with random crap because it’s ‘religious.’
Your religion (or whatever) is not relevant. If you are disrupting the wellbeing or safety of this vehical, its crew, or its passengers then your off.
@pinkpuppet: My Rabbi has a pretty good sense of humor.