David wanted a straight answer from Comcast as to whether they were degrading his HD signal, but instead was fed a colossal trough of baloney. The executive customer service rep who replied to David’s email said Comcast is using a “new system” for HD and while it “works well with clean 1080i signals, we’re making some adjustments to improve how it handles other types of HD signals so we can bring you the best HD picture. We apologize this has not created the HD experience that we intended, but we will work towards getting it right. ” Sure… check out this previous post, Comcast Degrades HD Quality To Make Room For More Channels, for the science and proof of how Comcast (and other cable operators) are degrading HD feeds to make more money. The full exchanges between David and the Comcast reps, inside…
analyst Kris has entered room
Kris: Hello amanda_, Thank you for contacting Comcast Live Chat Support. My name is Kris. Please give me one moment to review your information.
Kris: I will be happy to assist you with your questions today.
amanda: ok
Kris: I apologize for the inconvenience, I can understand your frustration.
Kris; Please give me a minute while I pull up your account.
Kris: Can you please provide the serial number from the bottom of the box?
amanda: I understand you are compressing HD channels now on the History HD channel to make more room for other channels, this seems to be effecting my HD quality.. is this a known problem?
Kris: This is the first of its kind that we encountered and I am having it noted.
Kris: Can you please provide the serial number from the bottom of the box?
amanda: I am not able to lift it up… is there another way to get the SN out of it from a menu command?
amanda: or can I give some personal info to look up my account?
Kris: is that the only HD box?
amanda: yes, the only one
Kris: I already have your account. I just need to trouble shoot the correct box,.
amanda: ok
Kris: Please make sure that the box is turned on.
amanda: cause I have look at several articles stating that several HD channels are now being compressed to carry more HD content, and for the last few days, my A&E Hd, and history channel HD look very degraded..
amanda: yes it is on
Kris: i will send a signal to refresh your box.
amanda: ok
Kris: I will now send a hit signal.
amanda: ok.. waiting…
Kris: I have sent a signal to your digital box. Can you please check to see if this has resolved your issue?
amanda: one sec
amanda: I have degraded service on A&E, discovery, and history HD…
amanda: FROM THE WEB, Wow. Can this company be any more evil? “It looks like Comcast is degrading the quality of some HD channels in order to make room for more channels. So far the Comcast channels receiving extra compression are: Discovery Channel, SciFi, USA, Food, NatGeo, UHD, A&E, HGTV, Starz, Cinemax, HBO, TLC, Animal Planet, Discovery HD Theater, and History HD.
amanda: that is the info I have
Kris: There are no HD issues reported for your area. Is it fine with you if I schedule a technician to have it checked?
Kris: I am sorry but we are not degrading services.
amanda: it sure seems like it.. because all the channels in the list are degraded… seems real weird…. is there a new HD box top that might solve this problem? mine is kind of old
amanda: I think I might just cancel my HD service… how do I go about doing that?
Kris: I can process that for you and schedule a tech to have your box replaced. Another option is to return the box to your local office and replace it with a regular box.———- Forwarded message ———-
From: David R
To: brian_roberts@comcast.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 16:14:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NO MORE HDDear Mr. Roberts,
I want to let you know about my total dissatisfaction with your new attempt to carry 3 HD channels worth of bandwidth in the space of 2, effectively degrading my HD service.
I am a avid History Channel watcher, and enjoy the HD service for it’s crisp picture and clarity. Now that you have decided to try and compete with FIOS, you have degraded your own HD signals to try and carry more channels. This has totally messed up my HD channels that I watch, and makes me wonder why I am paying full price now for down-graded service.
This is just another reason why I might leave Comcast and move to FIOS. Don’t degrade your own channels to say “we have more HD”, just give me good HD on the channels I have now… PLEASE!!!!
Dave R
— “Asbury, Cynthia” Cynthia_Asbury@cable.comcast.com wrote:
Good evening Mr. R,
Thank you for the feedback to Brian Roberts. As you are aware, we are constantly striving to provide improved services to our Customers, including a wide variety of HD content. In an effort to do this, we have recently started using a new system to deliver some HD channels.
While this system works well with clean 1080i signals, we’re making some adjustments to improve how it handles other types of HD signals so we can bring you the best HD picture. We apologize this has not created the HD experience that we intended, but we will work towards getting it right.
Thank you for being a Comcast Customer!
Sincerely,
Ms. AsburyNational Customer Operations
Executive Office
One Comcast Center
Phila, Pa. 19103———- Forwarded message ———-
From: David Rogers
To: “Asbury, Cynthia” Cynthia_Asbury@cable.comcast.com
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2008 20:39:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Comcast HD channelsMs. Asbury,
I beg to differ. This has nothing to do with 1080i vs 720i. This seems to have every thing to due with Comcast over compressing HD singles in limited bandwidth, and not informing your customers regarding the degraded HD signals, nor offering your customers a reduced rate for the degraded HD signal.
This seems to be nothing more than a marketing campaign to try and be able to state that “we have more HD than XYZ”. Seeing that FIOS is available, and that Direct TV has just launched another satellite offering HD, I no longer see any reason to hang on to Comcast’s degraded HD service.
Dave R
PREVIOUSLY: Comcast Degrades HD Quality To Make Room For More Channels
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Does no one have a problem with the fact that some of these channels comcast is compressing came to them already compressed once? Why is that? If comcast can’t call these compressed channels HD, than the networks sending out a compressed feed shouldn’t be able to call their channels HD either.
@JustAGuy2: Or they can get on the stick and start upgrading their systems like they should have been YEARS ago. NOT ONE company can sit there and claim that they didn’t know that the bandwidth crunch was coming.
JustAGuy2
Comcast has to decide what the market wants:
1. fewer HD channels with better picture
OR
2. more HD channels with a lower-quality picture
More like Comcast has to decide what it wants
to make the market BELIEVES it wants.
1. More fees and charges with same service quality
OR
2. More fees and charges for ALOT more money by branding HD on same service quality.
@UNSTOPPABLE:
In their defense, they have spent $10 BILLION in the last two years, and another $6 BILLION this year upgrading their systems. Since 2000, they’ve spent about $40 billion on upgrades, so it’s not like they’ve just been sitting around twiddling their thumbs.
Look guys, either do it right, either don’t do it at all. Yea, people want more HD… And that’s the word. HD. Not ultra compressed JPG-ish crap.
@Concerned_Citizen:
Everything’s compressed, and there’s no fixed standard for what constitutes “too much compression.” At the end of the day, the only metric for picture quality is the customer: “does this look good?”
If everyone sent true uncompressed video as recorded at the HD camera, then, (at 150mbps, per jrlcopy above), then Comcast would have room for about 40-45 HD channels, absolute max, if using the most advanced cable technology in the country, and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE. No standard def, no analog, no phone, no Internet, no nothing.
The only thing I think that Comcast should be forced to do is actually disclose what the consumer is getting in terms of bitrate, resolution, and AV format (MPEG-2) for each channel. The term “HD” on its own is meaningless – there’s no certification for being “HD”, because it’s not a standard. Is ATSC not “HD” because Blu-Rays / HD-DVDs look much better than your average OTA HD ATSC channel? I think not. And if that’s the case, why is Comcast suddenly not HD because it doesn’t look as good as OTA HD ATSC? If we’re going to complain, let’s have some reasonable logic to complain with, not just emotional whining.
As for the “OMG why are you not mindlessly saying the consumer is right” crowd, I’d remind them that groupthink gets blogs marginalized. Having a reasonable discussion about issues always produces better results.
I’m curious, is this an issue just in certain areas? My parents have Comcast and so do I. They have an HD TV but I don’t. When I have watched HD channgels at their house I have never seen any degradation of HD channels. I think the quality looks really good. The tuner I have for my place will show me Comcast’s HD channels and I will usually watch something on one of the HD channels rather than the regular channel, if there are both versions of the channel.
If it is just certain markets they are doing this is, is there a place to find out which locations are doing this?
By adding more HD, you effectively have no HD.
I only wonder how many millions of dollars folks have spent to upgrade to an HD TV only to be ultimately disappointed by the available content in the end. HD is one of the biggest frauds being perpetrated on consumers today.
I have comcast and the NatGeo channel never works, in SD or HD. The sound constantly drops and the image is either completely gone or filled with huge blocks. I don’t mean compression artifacts, I mean Atari 2600 style visuals. Sometimes it just says “Channel will be available shortly.”
I want to switch to FIOS but it’s not offered in my town. Every surrounding town has it, I wonder what sort of contract my town entered into with Comcast?
@backbroken: Don’t you think that “fraud” is a bit harsh? Maybe I’m just lucky that I don’t notice any of these artifacts in my HD channels (and I have Comcast).
I have a 42″ Vizio HD LCD TV with an off-air ant. I have two inputs on the back of the TV one for a regular analog input, and another for digital input. I decided to see what happens when I connected my comcast directly to the back of the Vizio to the digtal input thinking I didn’t want to pay extra for the HD box from Comcast. Plugged it in and Walla! I got all the HD channels without the extra tuner! Ha ha ha!
But then I wanted to record my programming in HD and I didn’t want to pay more for the recorder either. So I threw a TV tuner into my computer and hooked it up through the RGB (VGA) connection that the Vizio comes with (I also had to upgrade my VGA in the comp to run two monitors at the same time, but it was worth it) then ran an offair ANT through the TV Tuner. Useing Vista Media Player to record HD programming is great and free. I threw in an extra 500GB HD to record programming and disconnected ComCast. I miss a few channels, Discoery and THC. But who cares. I’m saving a lot of money, and the free offair signal I’m getting through the comptuer is way better than the ComCast signal was.
Comcast.net has this to say on its home page: “HDTV Made Easy: Find out why Comcast HD is the choice for crystal-clear programming!”
They also say “Comcast Digital Cable brings you the best in crystal-clear HDTV“, and “Comcast’s high definition programming is 100% digital, the images are sharp and crystal clear – the absolute best quality that you´ll find on the market today.”
Sounds like false advertising to me.
Here’s a Comcast HD issue I haven’t seen addressed here, so maybe it’s just me…
Does anyone else experience a situation wherein a ‘line’ essentially enters into the signal, splits the screen horizontally, and works its way slowly down the screen? It starts about a quarter of the way into the picture, and takes about ten minutes or so to work its way down to the bottom.
It makes whatever is on pretty much unatchable, as it’s so annoying, but it only happens on the HD channels. If, while it’s happening, I switch over to a non-HD channel, the picture is fine.
The simple solution is: F I O S
Sorry, in terms of television, HD does have a meaning, and it is the resolution. You can have crappy HD with a low bitrate, and still call it HD. There can be shades of grey, where you say your HD is awesome, but really it is heavily compressed and most people think it’s sucky, but then you’re talking about subjective judgements. . They must feel that, in the short term, customers want more HD channels, even if some of their existing HD channels aren’t so great. I don’t think anyone can argue that they are somehow obliged to tell everyone that they decreased the bitrates on some of their channels, as if the majority of consumers would even understand what that meant. Anyways, my hatred of Comcast and Verizon is equal, and if you think you’re going to get better customer support from Verizon when they start raising your FIOS rates, good luck with that.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, my advice is cancel your cable, get an antenna and a HDTV or ATSC tuner for your current tube. Crystal clear television without the bills- changed my life!
@ophmarketing:
There is a code that is sent with the HD signal that gives the converter information about the programming and such. I’m guessing that that line is that code of information and your TV is not able to descramble it for some reason. But I’ve usually heard that problem is on the edge of the pciture. I could be wrong.
Another example of cable companies overselling their services. First with internet connectivity, and now with “HD” channels. Obviously cable companies are using your monthly fees to provide their executives a fat salary. They should be using that money to improve their infrastructure.
@JRock: I dunno. How many people spent $2500 on a new 50″ HDTV to hang on their wall, only to find out that there is about 1-2 hours of worthwhile HD every day from their content provider. And chances are that content is now being noticeably compressed.
@JustAGuy2: That’s NOT the only metric for picture quality. This sort of thing can be measured statistically. Just saying.
@puddleglum411: Why do you think it’s unreasonable for them to be forced to disclose the bitrate? Since when is it ever unreasonable to require companies to provide MORE information to consumers who are making a choice? Especially when it’s very basic stuff like this. Sure, not everyone would understand the meaning of the term. But it would be very useful for those who do.
@lonewolf333: words of wisdom.
HD being used to make more money, who would have thunk it?
Give me back my analog! At least the quality was there…
@backbroken:
Speaking of HD fraud, how about “HD Vision” sunglasses?
[www.seen-on-tv.ws]
@johnva:
Well, there are other objective metrics, but their value is that they’re more consistent and cheaper than human testing, which is the real gold standard. Fundamentally, a “good” picture is whatever people think it is.
[www.tek.com]
This is how Comcast works from a technical standpoint w/ they have a new product they want to lay ground work for.
Before they even start they have a budget they can’t go over and they provide their headend engineers with the cheapest equipment and wants them to get it to work and do not care how they do.
So from the getgo, they already don’t spend the necessary money on things and limit themselves for expansion cause I know never in a million years did they ever expect someone to compete with them on their own turf.
You should see their slimy tactics when VZ was petition for a statewide franchise license. They would write in their internal newsletter that by granting VZ the franchise license, Comcast might have to cut jobs…
But one is true, Comcast is on the forefront in bringing the new technologies first because they can’t compete any other way. Having something first is not always great if you can’t get it to work right.
From the start, Comcast limits their own expansion. They shoot themselves in the foot before any projects cause never in a million years did they think there would be a serious competitor competing with them on their own turf. They do the minimal just to get things up and running.
This is how Comcast lays ground work for new products and services…and this is why they always need to improve their infrastructure. From the beginning, the management sets a budget on how much it should cost, when doing so they always choose the least expensive equipment and usually it the most limiting and difficult to work with for their headend engineers. They basically tell them to make it work and don’t care how.
What this translate means that Comcast will always be near capacity cause they just don’t spend the money upfront for the proper framework. There’s no need to have to keep on pumping money in their systems if they set it up right from the beginning.
Several of these posts have to be the weirdest posts I’ve read on the consumerist. HD is in the eye of the beholder, give me a break! This isn’t a philosophical debate – the title sums it up: “…when you complain about HD degradation”.
Now, are the screen shots actual captures of what Comcast is providing? Even if they aren’t I would think that you could easily tell the image you receive had suffered a major loss of definition before and after Comcast added channels. The tech’s explanation smacks of hyperbole when he starts talking about “other types of HD signals.” Really vague. If you pay for HD (which to me, means a super sharp image with little or no artifacts of any type) you should get HD. On ALL HD channels.