Wachovia Doesn't Give You Your Money, Then Yells At You
Reader G writes:
On Saturday 3/8/08 at approximately 4pm I went to a drive-up ATM at the Wachovia Bank branch located at 951 South George Mason Drive, Arlington, VA 22204. I put my card in and asked to withdraw $80. The machine was acting normally until it was supposed to dispense the money.We suggested that G launch an EECB (Executive Email Carpet Bomb) on Wachovia using this contact information, but honestly, we'd cancel this account as well. (Well, after we got our 80 bucks back!) We've had an ATM swallow our cash before and our bank did not yell at us or make us produce a receipt from a different transaction. How strange and rude.The screen flashed "please take your card" and gave me my card back, but no money came out. I waited, and suddenly the ATM's screen went blank for a moment, then came back on, still on the flashing "please take your card" screen. I parked my car and went to the ATM to wait for it to do something - my card information was still in the machine, and my money had never come out, and I was afraid it might start working again and give other people access to my account, or just give other people my money.
Standing next to the ATM I called the Wachovia customer service number. A man answered after a few minutes on hold and told me that there information showed that I had received the money, and that I would have to be transferred to the Disputes department. Standing outside next to the ATM in 50 degree rainy weather (with no coat because it had been warm earlier when I went out), I waited on hold about 10 minutes before my call rang through to someone's desk, and without ever getting to talk to that person, I was immediately dumped back into the general queue.
After waiting ANOTHER 10 minutes my call rang through again, and someone picked up without saying a thing and just hung up the phone.
At this point I was very upset, and the ATM screen had frozen on the "please take your card" screen (it had stopped the flashing graphic entirely). Right after that in my frustration I locked myself out of my car, so I had the privilege of standing outside the closed bank until about 6pm when my car with unlocked. I can confirm that the screen stayed frozen the entire time, it would not take other peoples cards nor did pressing any buttons affect it. At 6:15 I went to the walk-up ATM next to the frozen drive-up ATM and requested $80 again because I needed the money for a piece of furniture I was receiving that evening.
I went home. The next day I called the customer service line for Wachovia again, was transferred to the Disputes department again, and someone actually picked up the phone. This woman was very rude. She did not listen to anything I said, got all of my information AGAIN that the other customer service woman had requested, and then said that even though the 2 requests I made for $80 that day had been on different ATMs and 2 hours apart, they couldn't tell the difference between them.
She said that unless I could find the receipt for the second successful ATM transaction she would just have to pick one of the transactions randomly and if it was the wrong one my request would be denied and I wouldn't get my money back. She acted as if it was my fault for not having my receipt and that it was my responsibility to fix this issue, not her's or the bank's. I asked her how this could be possible, that they would just take my money because THEIR machine broke, and she got extremely defensive and even ruder, starting talking louder and talking over me saying that I was out of line.
I had written down the serial number of the broken ATM but she said she couldn't use that information. Thank god after searching through my trash I found the receipt of the successful transaction so she could put through the request for a dispute on the unsuccessful one. She said that in 3-5 days I would be mailed a letter and asked to provide even more information to an investigator, AFTER they received my reply the investigation would proceed, and then the bank would "balance" their ATM machine whenever they usually did so and they didn't know when that would be (nothing would be hurried on my account), and that IF they saw this "alleged" discrepancy then and ONLY THEN would I get my money back.
How many people actually get their receipts when they go to the ATM? How many people keep a hold of those receipts? Why would you think that you had to keep a receipt from a separate and successful transaction when complaining about one that didn't work and didn't give you a receipt? When you call their disputes department it says over and over again that you can file a dispute online. If you go to that page it's just a form with a couple drop down menus that doesn't allow for any comments, and aside from being able to choose "ATM" as the thing you had a problem with, the entire drop down menu asking what your problem actually was has no choice that even comes close to "ATM broke" or "ATM did not dispense funds." By the time someone had seen that online form and called me back my ATM receipt that I needed to do their jobs for them would have been long gone in the trash, and I would have been SOL. Now I still have to go through their little investigation and maybe in a couple of WEEKS it will be fixed.
What if I had requested enough money that I couldn't ask for it again? Would they have cared if it had been a few hundred dollars and I couldn't pay bills or my rent? I doubt it. In fact, I'm sure they would be even less likely to help because the amount was higher. I can assure you that I will cancel my account at that time because this bank's customer service is nothing short of horrible. How can they even legally pseudo-threaten to keep my money that I requested and never got unless I can provide information I had no way of knowing I would ever need?
If you don't end up getting your money from Wachovia, you should file a complaint with their regulating agency. The agency will investigate whether or not Wachovia broke any banking regulations by not correcting the ATM error.
Here's how to do that:
1) Contact your lender with a formal complaint. You can do this in writing, or by email. Keep a copy of this complaint for your records.
2) If your lender doesn't respond in a way that makes you happy, you can file a complaint with the bank's regulatory agency. This may be the FTC, The Department of Thrift Supervision, The Comptroller of Currency...or a few more.
You'll need to figure out which agency regulates your lender by calling or using FDIC's Bank Find.
3) Write a formal complaint letter to the bank's regulatory agency. Follow the FTC's instructions for writing a complaint. This document also has the correct contact information for the various regulatory agencies. Keep a copy of this complaint for your records.
For more information about how to learn to launch your own EECB, click here.
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Comments:
Since all ATM's have cameras on them, can't they just look and see that the person didnt get any money? The camera might not be able to distinguish a dollar amount, but certainly you can tell there was no money dispensed at all.
Always get a receipt, and always hold onto it until you can verify the transaction posted correctly.
I do actually always save my receipts...from ATM transactions, or any other transaction for that matter....
Hasta La ByeBye, Wachovia.
They also charge people a fee for cashing Wachovia drawn checks if the casher doesn't have a Wachovia account. When I was a contractor, I opened a free Wachovia checking account(immediately withdrawing the opening balance) and cashed my employer's paychecks out of spite.
Bottom line. There is no reason to stick with a bank that makes you jump through hoops like this when they can clearly see through your account history that you aren't trying to scam them. The fact that the CSR can't determine which ATM withdrawal was which (based on ATM # or time stamp) shows that either Wachovia CSRs are very poorly trained or the IT system that tracks transactions is very poorly implemented. In either case, do you want a bank with those qualities handling your money?
@bravo369: That confused me too and for that I blame the customer. I'm not sure why yet, but I just think its the right thing to do here. :)
Okay, I'm compelled to ask: "Who, in this age of electronic transactions, hasn't learned the worth of a printed receipt?". Even if you've only been reading the Consumerist for a week, the worth of acquiring a habit of keeping your receipts should be abundantly clear. In my opinion and personal experience, revisiting a transaction while in possession of a printed receipt is the real world equivalent of playing Doom in God Mode. You're virtually untouchable. Readers, please, I beg you, treat your receipts like pure gold. I guarantee at least twice a year, you won't regret it.
I get my receipt, and I keep it, because it shows your account balance on it - even if it doesn't show your account information, how much I have in my account is my business. I document my balance according to the ATM and make sure it matches up to my statement online.
@qwickone: That's what I was thinking, too. OP, have you asked about the security camera's record of the transation?
Even if he doesn't have a reciept, doesn't the bank have a video of the transaction? They can easily verify that he did NOT receive his money.
Give Wachovia CEO Kenneth Thompson a piece of your mind:
kenneth.r.thompson@wachovia.com
704.590.6555
Why didn't the customer return to the branch where the ATM was located? They might already know that the particular model had problems and/or complaints.
Consumerist's suggestion to do a mass corporate email is... is the only advice Consumerist offers these days?
Just go to the branch!
Since you asked ... I keep my receipts. I'm anal. You're experience sounds untterly maddening and I hope you do an EECB and that it works well.
Any plans on fixing your website so it can be supported by IE 6, what msot peopel have at work...
It's been screwed up all day on this and gizmodo since you guys updated it..
@bravo369: And why would you throw away your receipt when you already have a good feeling there's going to be a fight?
I think we have the one-sided conversation here: CSRs usually just throw whatever tone you give them right back at you. Did she, perhaps, get ruder and raise her voice because G did the same?
(That said, G's still got a good case. "Customer was rude" doesn't factor into customer retention policies or complaints with the regulatory agencies.)
@sleze69:
Wait...they charge non-Wachovia customers who cash Wachovia checks AT WACHOVIA BRANCHES? Or if they cash the checks ANYWHERE?
Because if they charge people for cashing Wachovia checks anywhere, I'd think people would just stop accepting their checks.
That's insane. Whenever something like this happens at my bank (not Wachovia)we usually have it resolved right away. All it takes is a phone call. I don't know wtf they are thinking. Don't the ATM's get balanced daily?
I thought Wachovia garnered the highest rating in customer service? haha maybe the CSR was a black sheep in the crowd or like someone else said, was only rude because said customer was rude. Another case of always more to the story than was said. However, there should be the camera to see if the money was issued, i'd think? oh lastly, I DO keep my receipts.
Does an ATM on George Mason Drive deliver inhaled plutonium as well?
I always keep my paper ATM receipts after I verify online that they have cleared. This after I purchased something from a kiosk in the mall and they ran my debit card twice! I had the paper work to back it up to clear only one transaction.
Same thing (almost) happened to me, just in another bank (as in, not a us bank since i'm not american lol) it's called banorte, everything was normal until the money literrally stuck in t he machine, as in i couldn't remove it, there was more money than i asked (i think other people's money was in there too) called the bank, got through (20 min wait) filed a complain, they said "our records say you did get the money" ...no luck bro...no luck
As an aside, not only does Wachovia yell at you when you call to adjust an error but they also now yell at you when you walk into one of their branches. They've adopted the smarmy Great Clips/Cold Stone Creamery method of greeting their patrons: "HI WELCOME TO WACHOVIA!!!" It's as annoying as hell. I KNOW where I am for crying out loud, did you think I was going to ask for coffee and a danish? Dolts!
What does the transaction that went through have to do with the transaction that did not go through??? She should not have to document that one. It's obvious the one timestamped many minutes BEFORE the other is the one that didn't go through and should not enter into the equation. It shouldn't take days to balance the ATM either. The bank is being rude and ridiculous and she should have not been given such a hard time about it. ATM not dispensing money should be a common and standard problem a CSR should be trained for. I don't know why she should be having a problem with this. Even Seinfeld covered this, what, 15 years ago?
@sleze69: Actually, most big banks do this as well. Since it's a service for a non-client, they charge you. BofA, Wachovia, M&T, Sandy Springs have been doing this for years.
@TechnoDestructo: You'd think people would stop accepting their checks....but they don't.
@mackpayson: I don't know about the yelling, but banks and retail stores have this 3 sec greet window. Supposedly if you greet a potential robber when he/she enters the door, they know they're either being watched, or someone has noticed them, and they wont rob the place. Having worked as a teller for 3 years, I can tell you this works.
@TechnoDestructo: Wachovia charges you a fee to cash a check drawn on their bank, if you, the check recipient, do not also have a Wachovia account. I have experienced this too.
Wachovia charged me $7 (1%) to cash the check for my apt. deposit refund. They said that the account holder had the option of opening an account where there were no service fees for check-cashers, but the apt's account wasn't one of them. I had never heard such a bizarre thing before.
You still have the option of depositing the check in your account and waiting for it to clear. Funny that--I didn't do it in this case because my bank, WaMu, was routinely holding my deposits for anywhere from a week to 3 weeks. I finally canceled my account with them too.
@mackpayson: My brother managed a chain gas station where they had to enthusiastically greet customers. He somehow got the corporation to change their policy in a moment with one little sentence he blurted out in front of an executive: "I can't do this anymore--it's so gay!"
I had something similar happen to me at an HSBC branch here in Manhattan, but I had a completely different outcome. Transaction was normal but no money came out. I immediately checked my receipt saw that that $60 had been withdrawn and proceeded to call customer service. I was transfered to the disputes dept, where they told me that I would have to wait a couple days before the money could be refunded (they had to review the tapes from that day). But sure enough in the end I got my money back. I would suggest that you don't stand and wait, and to always get a printed receipt with your transaction! And I probably wouldn't withdraw again that day.
One time I made a $400 deposit to an ATM, and it had some sort of error after accepting my envelope, and printed something like "There has been an error. Transaction Cancelled" and gave me my debit card back... but it still had my envelope with $400 in it. The ATM would then no longer function. It took about 5 days of customer service calls before I finally got my money.
I always keep my ATM receipts so I can enter them in my check register. Otherwise how would I know how much money I have in my account?
That said, the bank requiring the receipt is stupid because it's not uncommon for ATM printers to fail or jam.
@qwickone: I think the cameras are aimed to register the person's face, not the keypad/cash area. The cameras are usually just above the ATM, so those areas are directly below the camera and usually out of site.
I work for a LARGE banking entity in their ATM support department, and yes, the cameras are pointed to see your face. The other thing is that we do not have readily available access to ATM images, that info is recorded on tapes in the ATM, as well as fed to our security provider. Trying to get video footage for something such as this would be too convoluted, too much of a pain, and a waste of resources.
Why not go back to the branch the next day when it opened? I think they would have more of an idea of what happened... especially if the machine was still broken.
These stories would be a lot more palatable to read through if people cut out all the drama of being outside with no coat in 50 degree rainy weather, or having to wait on hold ANOTHER 10 minutes.
Perhaps more liberal use of the [REDACTED] would help in these situations.
Also, by throwing away your receipt, I can only assume you're one of those Won't Show Receipts at the Door Crowd - so you deserve everything you get.
Just to be clear here...it doesn't matter where you cash the check, they charge you anyway? Like you can go to Washington Mutual with a Wachovia check and Wachovia will charge you for cashing the check?
Because if that's the case, it sounds like Wachovia just doesn't want to offer checking accounts. I'd think after the first check, I'd refuse any further checks drawn on Wachovia.
"Also, by throwing away your receipt, I can only assume you're one of those Won't Show Receipts at the Door Crowd - so you deserve everything you get."
Please, don't go there...
@Dan25: Right, the longest it should take to straighten this out would be until the next time the bank reloads the machine and does an accounting of the cash still in the machine. The electronic record of cash dispensed versus the actual bills in the machine is going to be off by at least $80, or the sum of people's complaints about that machine that day.
This happened to me once at my bank on a weekday evening before a business trip maybe nine or ten years ago. I tried to withdraw a fairly large amount of cash to take with me on the trip, and nothing came out. I went home and called customer service, and they sent someone out to check the machine within about an hour, confirmed the error, and they even offered to have someone come out to my house and drop off the cash that night in case I really needed it.
Unfortunately that great customer service was from BankBoston, no longer in business and long since absorbed into Baybank/Fleet/BofA.
I suspect all businesses, so I keep all receipts until I get a bank or credit card statement. Then I shred the receipts. I certainly don't throw them in the trash. That's just asking for it. *shrug* Yeah they were assholes, but they can't give out money to anyone who calls just because they say so. Having the receipt is the fastest and easiest way to prove it. I would've also called someone to come over and take video or a pic of the broken ATM. That is, if you don't have a camera on a cell phone which everyone now adays seems to feel they must have. That's proof from your side. On the other hand, there's evidence, or should be evidence, from that stupid little camera pointed at you that belongs to the bank. It would show whether the machine every actually spit out any money and whether or not you took it.
Shit happens in life, and you deal with it, but this guy didn't. He shrieked and complained and made the situation worse because it didn't go his way. He HAD to have cash for the furniture? He couldn't do a check, or pay for it another way, or have it sent back and returned? Yeah, it's not fair, but things happen.
This is not a 'victim,' this is someone who experienced one of the typical boobies that happen in life, and he turned it into a huge unnecessary drama. Consumerist, stop giving a soapbox to these pathetic dweebs.
Some people don't pronounce the name correctly, the name of the bank actually sounds like "Walk Over Ya"! as in... "they will walk all over Ya"!!!
They take it litterally it sounds like.
I bank @ WAMU and I just received a letter from them stating that if I write a check to someone and they cash it at a WAMU but don't have an acct. with them, they will be charged $5.00 for doing so. *sigh* sign of the times, I guess.
Couple the out of balance ATM with the security camera's recording and some good ol' common sense (which unfortunately is less common than it should be..) and this could have been resolved so much easier. I don't believe the CSR for a moment that she can't use the ATM information, cannot discern the difference between the two $80 withdrawals (they'd have a time on them at least, just go with the first one for heck's sake!) and find her rude tone a disgrace to her position. It is unfortunate that fewer and fewer CSRs actually provide *Customer Service*. Also, I believe that there is a law or regulation (location slips mind at the moment, though I can do some digging if anyone wants) that says that an investigation must be opened within two days of the customer filing the original dispute and resolved within (I think) 10 days, or else the bank must provide provisional credit. I likely have at least part of that messed up as I have not thought of it in quite a while.
I also think the OP would have had slightly more luck if he was able to handle it with that particular branch. At the least, they would know their own ATM and might have been able to provide insight on what occurred or that they were aware of the error. Even if he was unable to walk into the branch and talk to a CSR, he could have called the branch as most branches do have direct lines. Trying to find a direct number is usually quite a hassle, though.
Not customer-blaming, I totally side with G on this, just helpful hints ;)
Other thing, Wacovia ATMS ask you if you want a receipt or not....
@TechnoDestructo: They charge non-customers to cash Wachovia checks. I told my employer at the time but he is loyal to people and not companies. He was good friends with the bank manager of the local branch.
@Subliminal0182: I used to work as a bank teller and was trained to treat people cashing checks of my bank as actual bank customers. I know that my bank, PNC, doesn't have that policy. I would probably switch banks as a matter of principal if PNC ever instituted this policy.
I hold onto my receipts, because I use them later to strike a balance in my checkbook. You have to do that, you know, if you want to know how much money you have available.
Forget the bank's security cameras. If this happened to me -- especially after the failed call to customer service -- I'd bring out my cell phone and take a photo of the malfunctioning ATM flashing its "please remove your card" message along with my ATM card held up so it appears in-frame. And, throwing away the recipt before the matter is resolved is just ridiculous.
In my experience with Wachovia for over 9 years now they have always provided excellent customer service. To hear that someone spoke rudely to you is surprising. Hope things work out for you
why would you go to a drive-thru atm and then park your car and walk back to call the customer service? why not just sit in the car?