Umm...wow. That's pretty scary. Wouldn't you think the safety was on? I'm not well versed in handguns, but I do know that the safety usually makes it fairly hard to accidentally discharge the gun.

So many questions...

OK, US Airways is having a rough day. I just read that a small section of "wing cover" dislodged from a 757 over MD and hit the side of the plane while in flight.

If they get too serious the pilot may aim the gun at them! :D

@MPHinPgh: You are correct. And most/hopefully all gun owners keep the safety on until they are ready to shoot something.

At least the pilot did not have more than 3oz of water. That would have spelled real disaster.

When the airlines installed hardened, bullet-proof doors, we didn't realize it was to save the passengers from (the thankfully, few) wanna-be Rambos piloting our jets. Sadly, even in a 10'x20', enclosed space, he still manages to miss.

People don't accidentally discharge. Guns do.

I'm not a firearms expert or anything, but isn't it rather dangerous to carry a firearm with a round in the chamber (which is pretty much the only way you can accidentally fire it)?

@Lo-Pan: Not all handguns have safeties. Glocks come to mind.

@ Trai: 10'x20'?? Have you ever visited a flight deck? More like 4'x6' on these small Airbus jets.

How come the plane didn't "explosively decompress"?? That's what happens in the movies!!!

@clevershark: A gun is pretty useless if you don't have a round in the chamber. Try racking the slide while a Jihadist saws at your neck.

On a serious note, the pilot must have been finger-f$%king the pistol or something. Guns in holsters don't just "go off".

@stubblyhead: Technically, Glocks have a safety built into the trigger that has to be engaged before the firing mechanism will activate. It all depends on what you consider a "safety" to be. The backstrap on most 1911s have a safety that must be engaged to fire, but also have a more traditional safety.

Regardless, your original statement stands, considering that most revolvers don't come with a safety of any type, unless you want to include some of the newer ones (esp. Smith & Wesson) with the built-in trigger lock.

Whether it's a model with a safety or not (the article doesn't mention) unless something was seriously wrong with the pistol it shouldn't have gone off. Guns don't "just go off" accidentally or intentionally. My vote is he had it out showing it off or playing around with it. Unless there was something mechanically wrong with it, then just ignore me. Some of you probably already have.

There is no such thing as an "accidental discharge", there are only negligent discharges.

@bustit22: a pilot isn't a beat cop. He has a locked, reinforced door between him and any fantasy Jihadist sawing his neck off.

The last discharge that caused a disturbance on a flight before was this story:

[consumerist.com]

Although I am sure this incident would have caused a lot more harm if someone was hit in the head.

@ MPHinPgh & CleverShark;

Without knowing the model or even type of handgun, it's difficult to guess here. If it was a revolver, well then there is always going to be a round in the chamber if you have it fully loaded. If an auto, it is common to keep a round in the chamber for self-defense - if you don't want to have to rack the round 1st - again it depends on the model. Single-action vs double-action, and so on. As already mentioned, some handguns don't have typical safeties, some have multiple safeties... etc. A responsible gun owner never trusts the safety.

Regardless, guns do NOT just "go off". I was taught that all guns are always loaded, always. Most self-defense handguns I have 'met' also have a pretty substantially weighted trigger pull, so are difficult to fire "accidentally". As already mentioned, this is a stupidity discharge, not an accidental one.

Then again - how else can the flight crew be expected to keep those rabble-rousing TSA agents in line?!

@flyingphotog: I've tried to visit a flight deck, since I'm in awe of pilots and jets in general. However, since I was only packing a .22, the pilot and navigator laughed, disparaged my manhood and sent me trotting back to economy class. :(

As someone that's fired a fair amount of guns (be scared: a Progressive that can shoot!), the idea that you need a live round in chamber in routine situations is ludicrous in the extreme. Life isn't Die Hard, people. It takes a half-second to pull the slide. Especially in a contained, secure environment.

@Clumber

Although the model is unknown at this time, i think ANY gun that is carried on a commercial airplane SHOULD be equiped with a safety. I agree, guns do not just go off, someone was probably just being a hero...

@smitty1123:

Absolutely. I'm betting he violated one of the top rules of gun safety: Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.

I blame it on people getting bad ideas from movies where the heroes go running around holding guns with their fingers always on the trigger, or posters of James Bond doing poses standing there holding his PPK with his finger on the trigger.

The safe way to hold a gun is how Glock's spokesperson R. Lee Ermey does it: finger off the trigger. pic: [www.gunmuse.com]

The line that gets me is: No one was injured, and the aircraft was not in any danger during the flight, officials said.

The aircraft was not in any danger? Are you f**king kidding me? A bullet flying thru, what is (used generously) the brain of an aircraft. One nicked wire, or damaged PCB and its FailPlane pics all over the intertubes! rararrawr

/end rant

*Channels Bill Hicks* Go back to sleep america, go back to sleep.

@RandoX: I was gonna mention that some revolvers don't have a safety, but are still a bit of a challenge to accidentally discharge. you know pulling back the hammer and what not.

@nequam: *snicker*

This can all be traced back to Macho Grande... grande... grande...

@nequam: My friend's prom date begs to differ.

Interesting story, good to hear no one was hurt and hopefully this guy got the scare of his life. Next time he will take extra precautions to make sure his firearm is secure I bet. I'm glad to hear of a pilot packing heat though makes me feel a bit safer, seriously.

From experience, most "accidents" like this start with the phrase "Hey, watch this...". Time to check the cockpit voice recorder I think!

Glock Leg Maybe?

Interesting story, lets see what I can make of it:

Well...I can make a hat, a broche, or a pterodactyl...

-Airplane

We can go back and forth on whether the safety was on, or if the guy was using proper trigger discipline, or if it was loaded. But what about this question: Why did he have it in the first place?

He's cleared by the TSA to carry it... that's good. But why? To fend off terrorists? Execute ornery passengers? Target shooting?

Sorry, never mind, I didn't read the article. It IS to fend off terrorists.

The guns-in-cockpits program flummoxes security experts, however. "If you reinforce the cockpit door and keep it closed, why do you need weapons on board? They could get misplaced or misused." Aviation Insecurity: The New Challenges of Air Travel

On El Al flights, bulletproof cockpit doors remain locked from before boarding until the last passenger has disembarked. It's a simple requirement that ensures no terrorist can gain access to the controls.

Do airlines in the US not do this? It sounds like the most simple/effective way of prevention.

I have nothing against pilots having weapons on-board but they should definatly not be discharged on 'accident'.

@nequam: That's what she said.

lmao @ them taking seriously guns that pull their own triggers. best of luck with that one.

gun must have grown a mind of its own, desperate for attention decided to discharge himself. poor little gun. no one payed attention to him.

pilot is 100% at fault here and should be terminated. has nothing to do with safeties or anything other than personal responsibility. I carry a Kel-Tec P11 with no safety and it has never decided to discharge itself.

@hi: Sigh. Then you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer. There's simply no scenario (outside of 24) where this is A Good Idea. And if you're relying on 24 to shape your national security outlook, this reflects more on you than on the idiot wannabe Rambo pilot.

Given recent stories regarding pilots, I wonder if alcohol might have been involved. Now we're talking really scary.

Proof that US Airways pilots are no smarter than their baggage handlers, gate agents, maintenance crews, flight attendants or upper management.

How comically bad can an airline get and still be considered an airline? Nuclear waste should be packed into 26" roller luggage and booked on US Airways flights connecting through Philly. The nuclear waste will disappear into nothingness and cease to exist.

US AIRWAYS IS SIMPLY THE WORST COMPANY OF ANY KIND I HAVE EVER DEALT WITH PERSONALLY.

I will not feel the slightest twinge of sadness when this company inevitably goes to join their betters (far better) Eastern, Pan Am and TWA in that big holding pattern in the sky.

@Trai_Dep: Go back to the hysteria after 9/11 and you'll find that the prevailing mood was that pilots should definitely be armed. I'm not one of them, but I think you'll find a lot of people still holding that opinion, reinforced cockpit doors or not.

There seems to be a fair amount of confusion about exactly how firearms and ammunition work, most notably that they all work the same. They don't. Stop making assumptions based on what you see in the movies.

First, there is NO such thing as a safe firearm. If you have a gun, assume it's loaded. A significant percentage of accidents happen each year because someone has incorrectly assumed that a weapon was not leaded. Or that the safety was on when it wasn't. Or that the safety is an end-all absolute. In act, safeties do NOT always prevent accidental discharges. There have been several recalls from companies that used fancy mechanical safety indicators that actually introduced new problems, such as being subject to accidental discharge from shock (such as being dropped or struck at a particular angle), so just because the safety is on does not mean the weapon is safe. The only "safe" firearm is one being handled by a "safe" user who never points it at something he or she does not intend to shoot, regardless of whether or not the weapon is loaded or has it's safety engaged.

Second, not all firearms even HAVE safety catch mechanisms. Glocks, Springfield XDs... there are many out there that have hand or trigger safeties (a small piece of metal or plastic in either the tip of the trigger, the back of the handle, or both) that will usually prevent accidental discharges because the hand needs to be putting both pressure on the back of the handle (meaning the user is gripping the weapon firmly) and on the tip of the trigger (meaning the user has placed their finger on the trigger), the latter of which should NEVER be done unless the user has lined up their sight and is ready to fire.

Bearing all of this in mind, not all weapons have a thumb safety, or a hand safety, or a trigger safety, or even ANY safety. I think it's pretty likely that there was SOME sort of safety mechanism on the weapon, but as I stated before, they are NOT foolproof. I've heard about accidental discharges while holstering a weapon (the hand was applying pressure to the hand safety and the trigger safety was depressed by the edge of the poly holster, causing a discharge), dropping a weapon (inadequate drop-safety mechanisms, or a hand-safety only and it was dropped on an uneven surface, etc.), and so on. It's anyone's guess as to how it happened, but accidental discharges, EVEN WITH SAFETIES ON, are more common that many people think. That's why we hear about accidental gun-related deaths. In short, YOU are the safety that matters most. Assume all weapons are loaded, cocked and have a round chambered, keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you're ready to fire, and never point a weapon at something you don't intend to shoot.

As far as the "no damage to the aircraft" claim goes, it should be noted that there are many different types of ammunition. For example, while a military weapon will usually be loaded with what is called "ball" ammunition (a full metal jacket of copper surrounding a slid lead core, without a hollow point) due to Geneva Convention restrictions on types of allowable ammunition to be used in warfare, it is usually the case that police and home defense ammunition is some form of hollowpoint ammunition. Why? Two reasons:

First, safety. When ball ammunition hits something, it usually keeps going. Some handgun ammunition has been known to penetrate the walls of 3-4 houses (which are essentially just drywall and a thin layer of wood, aluminum, etc.) before stopping. That's a LOT of potential for collateral damage. What if you have an intruder in your home and you take a shot at him, but the bullet passes right through his or her chest and into another room in the house where a loved one is sleeping? Ball ammunition can be dangerous, and is really best used in scenarios where additional penetration is needed, such as a police officer who is having a shoot-out with a suspect who is hiding behind or in a vehicle, etc. Unlike ball ammunition, hollowpoint rounds will expand when they hit the target (depending on the materials it hits), causing a significant loss of speed and energy.

Second, stopping power. When you are under attack, your first objective is to STOP the attacker. Barring a luck head shot (which should NOT be attempted while under stress (such as being attacked), stopping the subject means causing blood loss. The larger the holes you put in your attacker, the more blood loss occurs. The maximum damage that can be applied from a handgun bullet is usually in the form of a hollowpoint, although a new revolver was released last year that accepts .410 shotgun shells. How does a hollowpoint work? Well, the tip of the pullet is "hollowed" out, weakening the structural integrity. When it hits something relatively soft (such as soft tissue, for example), the thin edges of the tip buckle and mushroom out, creating a much larger hole. Additionally, the bullet's forward energy is spread out over a larger area, both slowing the bullet down and delivering that much more energy to the target. Larger rounds deliver more energy. This is sometimes referred to as "stopping power".

Why is all of this relevant? Well, it's pretty likely that the pilot of a vehicle with a pressurized cabin and many delicate instruments with sensitive moving parts was NOT using ball ammo. Hollowpoints are much less likely to penetrate metal panels and various other hard objects... although of course nothing is certain. Was the aircraft in danger? Possibly. But probably not unless he fired a shot into the flight controls or out the window or something.

A gun "accidentally discharged."

While a very informative post above, the odds of this being anything BUT the pilots fault are twenty seven hundred ga-jillion to one.

@EzraEkman: The ammunition used is actually designed to break into powder on hitting a hard target - safety first, and all that. It's not a hollow point, but I honestly don't remember what its called.

Otherwise, excellent post.

Even though this pilot clearly made an error, as pilot errors go, it could have been a lot worse - like miscalculating fuel requirements, thinking you can land into a strong cross-wind and misjudging how much runway you have left. All that said, this guys should be fired forthwith. I've always argued that anyone who can be trusted with a jet filled with passengers and jet fuel can, if properly trained, be trusted with a gun. I guess the corollary is that anyone who cannot be trusted with a gun, should probably not be trusted with an airplance.

@Shadowfire: Frangible

@Canoehead: Thanks, you're awesome.

I carry a Sig P239 every day for self defense. It does not have a separate safety, but it does have a firing pin block that is not disengaged until the trigger has been pulled.

There are many rules to follow when handling a firearm.

When I first started carrying my handgun I had an inexpensive holster. When in a restroom I had the gun FALL out and land on the tile, hammer first. Had it not been for the firing pin block, the gun WOULD have discharged. Since not all guns have firing pin blocks, this is one plausible way it could have happened.

The pilots are required to transport their firearms in a locked case until they are on the flight deck. My best guess is that the pilot didn't holster his weapon while on the ground, and was then careless holstering in flight.

I know at least one pilot who said the best reason to carry a weapon is the ability to bypass the TSA security. They only get to with the certification and the weapon.

To finish, carrying a gun without a round in the chamber is foolish. The pilot might not get a lot of warning, and a lot can happen in half a second.

@EzraEkman: Nice post!