"Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer."

Bull. Shit. Unless you have dropped it and one of the latches has snapped off there is NO WAY that RAM would become unseated by itself.

I have no reason to doubt Staples here. But $243 is still a lot of money for those services. But then I probably get ripped off every time I take my car to the shop.

Lies, lies and more lies. The Staples PR Spin Machine at work.

Rebuttal?

W/E staples. You blew it and now you have to live with the smell of shame on you. Deal with it.

If "a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer" someone needs to have their car fixed. They're *clipped* in place.

wow! $243 for RAM and virus removal... I would say removing that virus would cost maybe $75.00 for an hour of labour, and then RAM (1GB of DDR about $50.00) and installation of that RAM ($20.00 max, comeon people it's about 2 minutes of work).

Total REAL price = $145.00 + applicable taxes

Staples overinflated price = $243.00

Tip: Bring your PC to a local computer store, they charge alot less!

It may never have been fully clipped. You guys make it seem like they're held in by industrial strength clips. They're little plastic bits. You can seat RAM w/o them fully engaged.

Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer.

Huh?

I can't believe I'm gonna write this because i HATE these kind of statements, but in cases like these I always think of one thing:

People like this customer should buy a Mac.

There. I said it. It's the same reason I almost forced my father to buy a mac. If you have no technical savvy whatsoever, and have no interest in learning how to keep you PC running relatively smoothly, the 'price bump' of a Mac makes sense.

My dad's computer would grind down to a syrupy sluggish mess after months of foolishly and inadvertently loading garbage onto his Windows box.

$243 for virus removal and ram upgrade, that he would have to do again (the virus part) at a later time because he has no clue how to keep his system 'clean', adds up fast.

This has NOTHING to do with whether Mac is better than windows or linux on a broad level, just making the point that for guys like these, the virus/malware problem is close to nil

$243 for a virus scan & fix and a stick of ram? That is still a rip off. Unless the virus repair is extremely time consuming manual work, but in that case it is usually better to just format & reload.

I can't imagine any instance in which "transport" of the computer would unseat the RAM.

The amount of force required to jostle out of those clips would almost certainly break something.

Sounds like BS. I know I'm constantly working on my 70+ year old parents computer. But that is a lot of money for a RAM upgrade and as a computer tech I have no idea of what software is available other than off the shelf to remove a virus. I have to call BS on that.

@masonreloaded:

I have been building computer for many years and I can tell you when there is a problem with a computer when it comes into my hands one of the 1st thing I check is the seat of the RAM. I cannot begin to tell you how many computers I have worked on where taking out the RAM and reseating it fixed a problem.

This is DEFINITELY NOT, as you so eloquently put it, "bullshit".

"Removing a virus can be a lengthy and difficult process, and off-the-shelf virus programs are generally useless when the machine is already infected."

I call BS. AVG can remove most viruses (virii?) (especially simple Trojans) for absolutely no cost, and it runs itself. I have used it numerous times to clean up friend's computers when they were too dumb to protect it up front.

Best solution for old people with broken computers: find a high school techie and pay them to fix it. I set up a good shop in high school with my friends and we got a lot of business from the retirement communities nearby. And we did a good job to the point that people in the neighborhood knew who we were and knew that we were not just going to do some bullshit work and leave. No big corporations to take a cut of payments and it's cheaper for the customer. Plus these kids get experience with customer work and get to do what they love best: tweaking computers.

That's what I did when I was in high school and I made enough to get by. Plus, it helped me get a job after college when I told them that I've been working with technology and fixing computers for people since I was 12.

@masonreloaded:

Yah I'd agree with you. Glad Staples put the story right but....no, ram doesn't just jump out of it's slot on a whim. Hell, sometimes you have to apply enough force to the levers, you worry about breaking your motherboard.

AT $150 i'd have put the brakes on the job if it were on my bench. I want to see the numbers where Staples is getting from with the RAM estimate. That is absolutely ridiculous. What I really want to hear is the specs of this ailing system so I can make my own estimate.

@masonreloaded: Agreed. Unless the customer opened the machine at home and started touching stuff (and, playing devil's advocate, we don't know this for sure), there is no way RAM just pops out by itself.

"Removing a virus can be a lengthy and difficult process, and off-the-shelf virus programs are generally useless when the machine is already infected."

Did a Staples PR guy that knows nothing about computers write this? This sentence is like saying "Antibiotics are useless once a bacterial infection is present..."

When I'm doing a PC tune up (for which I charge a LOT less than Staples) and I find viruses on a system, I install AVG, update AVG, run AVG and it fixes the problem. Every. Single. Time.

"Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer."

Um, no. It's extremely unusual for this to happen. Computers are shipped across the world, in ships then in trucks, and yet almost every new computer is fine. That's the entire REASON that the retaining clamps were added to RAM slots in the first place.

This rebuttal has done nothing but confirm that Staples is in the business of ripping people off.

Well although the price is high, all of the big chains charge exorbitant amounts to repair computers, even when the problem is trivial. So you can't fault them too heavily for that.

But the RAM comment sounds incredibly fishy.

Those things are in there tight ... and those clips are no pushovers.

100% BS on the memory easily becoming unseated during transportation. I work in the industry and an internal connector that would let loose of its device is not acceptable. This kind of connector has been in use for decades and the mechanics of holding memory in place is well understood.

If this was true, Dell, HP, Gateway etc. would have a huge number of PCs with this problem and would consider unacceptable and the connector would get redesigned.

Also BS on difficulty in removing an entrenched virus. Boot from an antivirus CD and let it do the clean up automatically.

However, the guy should increase the amount of memory in the PC. Staples got that part right.

I'd have to agree with Staples here. Virus removal and installation of RAM at $243 seems reasonable. Most of the time virus/trojan removal takes about 3-4 hours because everything happening on that computer will be in slow motion. Unless the customer agrees to do a complete formatting. In which case it shouldn't cost more than $100-$150 with the RAM installation.

Yeah... RAM comes unseated, and $243 is an acceptable price for virus removal and a RAM upgrade. How about $0 for the virus and $79 for two sticks from Newegg?

The VP's response sounds pretty good and convincing until here:

Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer.

Everything else suddenly seems like bullshit in his post now. Weird.

Well, I know that I transport my laptop by hurling it like a discus, so I can understand how RAM can become unseated.

My only problem with Staples is with how bossy the staff is. Every time I go in there, I can't hurl a laptop without hitting another employee who is all like, "Please don't throw that" or "I'm calling the cops" or unconscious or something.

@kmn842: """I call BS. AVG can remove most viruses (virii?) (especially simple Trojans) for absolutely no cost, and it runs itself. I have used it numerous times to clean up friend's computers when they were too dumb to protect it up front."""

AVG, and other free anti-virus programs almost certainly prohibit their use by enterprises or other for-profit businesses. Tools that are free and legal for individuals to use often are neither for businesses.

Ram comes out of its slot about as often as the hsf falls off the processor in transport. NEVER.

Bullshit staples. You guys were just trying to swindle the old people.

@quattie:
Vibration over time might eventually unseat RAM, which may not have been fully seated originally. We may never know if the technician was dishonest. Did the customer lie about the proposed charge..$243 vs $390?

Kudos to Consumerist for publishing both sides of this story.

I've worked in tech support at a major research university for 10 years. I've seen a lot of strange things, but I've never seen RAM come unclipped and need to be reseated. We've probably relocated a half a dozen departments as new buildings were built, and relied on movers that seemed more interested in playing street hockey with the boxes than actually moving carefully to their new locations. I've never seem anything like this happen.

I'll second the motion to recommend non-technical people get a mac. It's worth the premium. Bad things can and do happen to macs, it generally happens less frequently.

Given my experience with Geek Squad when they didn't fix a TV I brought in for repair (under extended warranty) and then tried to tell me that I dropped it on the way home... I would avoid big box store like the plauge.

The actual story aside, it's interesting to see that more and more corporations seem to be reading Consumerist and are willing to make rebuttals.

So Staples' "Free PC Tune up" does not = removing viruses?

They will scan a customer's system for them, tell you they're there, and then let them go? That's poor.

That's not a tune-up, that's peeing on the tires and calling it a spit-shine.

@Echodork: """Yeah... RAM comes unseated, and $243 is an acceptable price for virus removal and a RAM upgrade. How about $0 for the virus and $79 for two sticks from Newegg?"""

This is a rediculous statement. Do you think this old man could actually order the right RAM, install it, and run an anti-virus? Of course not.

Staples was *gasp* trying to make a profit off this guy. That's what they do - make money. $0 for virus scan and $79 for memory is the cost for you to do it. Just because there's someone in the world who can do it cheaper does not require Staples to do the same.

@Honus: Actually, that only applied when 30 and 72 pin RAM was in use. Those types of RAM can only be bought at used computer places anymore. Most likely, the elderly gentleman that was being screwed here had a system with SDRAM which, when installed, requires a significant amount of force to verify that it is properly seated and due to the design of the clips in question the RAM could _NEVER_ be fully seated without also being clipped in place.

Based on this exchange, I've concluded that Consumerist has an addiction to hyperbole. Here, as I see frequently on lesser sites, an analyst has become an alarmist.

Fact 1 -

$243 is a competitive price for a virus removal, stick of RAM, and installation of that RAM. Service at Geek Squad and other similar locations costs about the same. You can argue that this whole business model is flawed, but keep in mind that most of us are skilled. The car mechanic analogy is sound and valid here - "just a sparkplug" or "just a stick of RAM" to me is not that to others.

Fact 2 -

RAM is easy to unseat. This guy repeatedly dragged his computer around - it's entirely within the realm of possibility. Don't be ridiculous. Plus, RAM can frequently experience intermittent functionality as it nears failure, and this computer is obviously aged.

It's nice to see a rebuttal. I realize that Consumerist comes at these stories from, well, the "consumer's" P.O.V. however, there are always three sides to every story (provided rock solid evidence is missing like audio or video) the customer's side, the store's side and the truth. All of which can be distorted as the story is repeated and passed on.

I think Consumerist owes it to it's readers to publish these kinds of rebuttals because not every store is out to rip us off. (Not insinuating that they are repressed!) And not every situation happened exactly as printed. So, hats off to Consumerist for printing the rebuttal and letting the readers decide. It's much easier to do so with another viewpoint. Not as sexy as most Consumerist headlines but hey...thanks anyway!

As for the RAM issue, stranger things have happened. I think everyone calling B.S. needs to chill. You have no idea what kind of state his P.C. was in.

All of that being said, I still stand by my previous comments on this story - make friends with a techie or learn it yourself! And back up your work!

Yeah, the price sucks - but the guy never paid it according to Staples - I don't get it.

@ADismalScience: The functionality of the RAM was not in question. The statement that it had come unseated is. As for your assertion that transport of a computer, especially with more recent hardware, can unseat the RAM...well, please see my earlier post and do some research on RAM chips and the slots they sit in.

The conflicts between the two stories are annoying, but the Staples' people's mechanic-like insistence that the computer is too bizarre and complex for any mere mortal to repair on his own really takes the taco. Offering a service called a "Tune-up" even for free is ridiculous right there. Do they get out the timing light and make sure all the platters in the hard drive are firing in the correct sequence? Obvious ploy to "find" other "problems" and then "offer" to "fix" them.

Also, while I've seen RAM work its way out enough to lose contact while still being clipped in, I've never seen one come completely unclipped.

Oh Staples, don't try to save face on teh internets; we hear this all the time.

I actually agree with a few things:

RAM can become loose. Not nearly as common as expansion cards (video cards, modems, NIC's, etc.) but I've seen it happen. I've not read the OP, so I don't know if it came out altogether (that would be very rare), but loose enough not to make contact can happen.

What in the world is someone running a PC with 256 MB RAM? Of course it's going to be dirt slow, unless it's running Win95 (and even then won't be especially peppy).

I do disagree with the rebuttal that running AV after an infection is "generally useless." I'll put my plug in for Kaspersky - it has done an incredible job saving some machines I've fixed for people. Couple that with Spybot, SpySweeper and/or AdAware, you should be able to fix the majority of problems. Use HijackThis for really bad issues.

Finally, on the cost of repairs and parts...why are computers treated so differently than car repairs? A basic repair that a knowledgeable car tech can do in a few hours can run hundreds of dollars, yet no one seems to bat an eye. A similar situation on a PC and people go crazy over the charges? I realize that many more people know how to do PC repairs and they are able to determine the amount of markup, but again, they are people who know how to do the repair. For someone who doesn't know how to fix issues (like me on cars), they have to pay labor to those who are experienced. Labor ain't cheap - if you don't like the price, either find someone else cheaper or learn how to do it yourself.

@masonreloaded: If the RAM was not seated properly when installed initially, this can certainly happen. I've fixed this problem a number of times when i was a 'local tech', and each time, even though the problem took all of 5 minutes to fix, we charged the bench fee of $50.

I would have charged 39.99 for virus removal, 19.99 to install the RAM, and 19.99 for a house call.

@masonreloaded: You're full of crap. It not only can become unseated, it's possible for carbon to build up on the contacts. Re-seating usually fixes that.

I work for staples. They don't train the easy techs for shit. They don't train anybody for shit. They make everything they do so idiot proof and on rails that there is no need to actually know what you're doing. They keep the computers locked down so tight that we can't even access the C drive on them, they give us shitty, obsolete software to work with, but don't want to hear it when customers complain that we can't help them.

I will say that I don't know whether the guy was given a choice as to which parts of the "staples plan to fix your computer" he was able to pick or if he had to take it 100% as they presented it. True he could have used some more RAM, but getting the viruses off of his computer was the first priority.

@ColoradoShark: You should find another industry then. Because you don't know what you are talking about. Let me guess you are an MCSE.

@bohemian: It's not a virus scan. They're right; I've yet to encounter an AV program that can properly clean an infected machine when that product was either not already installed (problem #2) or not kept up to date (problem #1). There are only two ways to fix it at that point. Either sit down in front of it with an OS booted from a CD, and manually clear out the files and registry entries, which can take an hour of more; or the nuclear option. A total wipe and reinstall of the OS.

@Crymson_77:

I've built enough computers in my life to understand your point and still disagree. It's within the realm of possibility for ram to become unseated, especially on an older machine with very little RAM whose parts are probably well past their MTBF's that's being regularly transported.

@CharlieSeattle: Carbon build up on the contacts???!!! The contacts have been gold on the memory and gold on the connector for at least 10 years and maybe 20. Gold to gold will not corrode.
Maybe you are confused with some motor you repaired once?