I'd be worried that they'll change the machines to burn the coffee.

That's pretty lame. So the store will stop making the coffee that they've made for over 2 years, because the owner has indie pride.

What a self-righteous douche.

lol Are you kidding me? The 'indie' shop doesn't like Starbucks because of the Starbucks image and because they don't like the coffee. So if the coffee machine the indie shop has been using to make their 'better' coffee is still the same machine, why does it matter? Their egotistical attitude is as bad or worse than the attitudes of Starbucks and Starbucks lovers that they hate so much.

I'll be sure to steer clear of the pretentious 'indie' snobs if the opportunity arises.

You don't know why this company dislikes Starbucks. Maybe they have ethical issues with the company and it's not just "indie pride". If Wal-Mart purchased a company that made something I used, I would damn well purchase another one from a different company.

On a related note, I saw that the Starbucks closest to my house, which opened a few years ago, got beat out by the Dunkin' Donuts nearby. It made me chuckle, even though I don't drink coffee.

They ought to smash those $11K coffee machines with a sledgehammer...that would show them!

There are probably filters and other parts that have to be replaced, that would mean writing checks to Starbucks on at least a quarterly basis, and since they are Starbucks competition, I wouldn't be surprised if those parts suddenly got much more expensive.

No problem, my indie friend: I'll just get my coffee from the Clover at Starbucks.

@Machete_Bear:
Agreed, this guy is a moron.

This is about dumb. You have already purchased the two machines. I can see you not buying future machines because of starbucks ownership. I can even see you not repairing the machines... If you have that much pride. But you are basicly saying you would rather get rid of a machine than provide the best coffee that you are capable of. There is a time for principle, but this is just a bad business move IMO.

Ahh well, they have the right to run their business how they see fit. I just don't see the logic.

Hardly a comparison to walmart. I don't see walmart as evil anyhow. Provide a better/cheaper product if you want to compete.

@AaronC: Wal-Mart floods the market with inferior Chinese crap, and pays their employees shit so that they have to rely on public programs to pay their bills. That's pretty evil.

Just because people are stupid/broke enough to shop there doesn't mean that what they do is right. Popularity does not equal quality.

Makes sense on the one hand, but totally doesn't on the other. I mean, they already OWN the Clovers, so it's not going to benefit Starbucks in any way to continue using them. Plus a lot of their loyal customers will be unhappy I'm sure.

K-Bo above probably nailed it down correctly. I'm not familiar with these machines, but maybe they do cost money to maintain over time. And this coffeehouse just didn't like the idea of giving Starbucks any of their money for maintaining the machines.

Not dumb at all. Meg's writeup focuses too much on the "Indie"/sticking it to SBUX part and not the "Having to buy parts and service from your direct competitor" part which is the real heart of the matter.

Hmm... Do they want to donate the Clovers to a good cause?
I tend to agree with the general sentiment here. Starbucks, despite its overroasted coffee and poorly trained baristas, is trying to do good by the world through a lot of their social justice programs. On principle of taste of coffee alone: I would agree with the indie shop. In principle of what they're (trying) to do for the world? They're nuts.

Not buying new Clover machines, that I can understand. But dumping expensive equipment because of some Starbucks hate is stupid. Starbucks just got you to dump two $11,000 pieces of equipment and incur the cost of buying replacements. That sounds like a substantial amount of money for a small business. Even if they sold the Clovers used and bought new replacements they are still going to be down money.

I get really annoyed with the indie snobbery. We have a couple of good indie shops in town. We also have a couple that make coffee that tastes like rat droppings. Indie doesn't automatically equate to any sort of decent product.

Indie spirit or not this just seems like a bad business move. I'd be pretty annoyed as a customer if my local coffee shop suddenly stopped offering a product I had gotten hooked on over the past two years.

And considering the rumors about Starbucks putting Clover machines in their stores, this guy would be practically driving his customers over to the competitor.

All the coffee made for centuries before this Clover machine was worthless and it is impossible to make decent coffee without it?

How about this. Let the business owner run the business how they see fit, dealing with those companies they chose to deal with and you as the consumer patronize those businesses that mirror your principles. Stop shopping where the label on your cup is going to get you the most external validation and buy what YOU like.

@morganlh85: If they now have to buy replacement parts from their competitor it WOULD benefit Starbucks.

What do they do for an encore, shoot themselves in the foot?

@sourc3: Uh, social justice programs? Selling "eco friendly" bottled water is still wasting plastic, having "post recycled" cups doesn't mitigate the fact that they are made to be tossed into the garbage, and "fair trade" coffee still screws over growers in South America, Asia, and Africa--just a little less than before. I used to work for the 'bucks, so I have good reason not to buy that particular brand of PR. The only place that Starbucks is making the world better for is Starbucks.

@sixninezero: Not impossible. It just takes 10 minutes to manhandle the french press. The Clover instigated a small revolution in the industry.

@K-Bo: If anything, Clovers and their parts will get cheaper.

These are Clover executives here, putting each machine together by hand. Starbucks will tool up a factory and bring economies of scale to the picture.

When you're in business, especially a particularly cut-throat business like selling coffee. You'd be a damned fool for doing anything that benefits the guys that are trying to put you out of business.

This isn't a case of a small coffeehouse owner being a douche. He just doesn't want to be at the mercy of Starbucks when it comes time to service his coffee makers. Clover is not the only overpriced coffee making machine out there. There's a few Italian machines that store owners import.

I think some of you don't get it... as others have stated I'm sure their are custom filters and parts that now need to be bought from their major competitor Starbucks.

Lastly, I don't think they mentioned smashing it up. I'm sure the could sell it used and not loose to much money.

If Chrysler suddenly bought a company that built automotive factory equipment, and Ford had been using equipment made and serviced by that company, would anybody be surprised when Ford announced that they were changing suppliers?

This nicely encapsulates what I've experienced at a lot (not all) of indie places. Be it a clothing store, music store, coffee shop, etc etc. A lot of times they have a 'indier-than-thou' attitude not only towards their competitors but also towards any customer who isn't a long time regular.

It's kept me from becoming a regular at plenty of places. There are indie places where I have become a long time regular, largely because they don't act superior towards new customers.

@Falconfire: Buying from a competitor is nothing new. Any vertically-integrated conglomeration has the predicament where some product lines undercut others.

For example, consider the PowerPC processor manufactured by IBM. Once, Apple was both IBM's largest customer of PowerPC chips and a significant competitor to their line of Intel-based PCs.

Or, more relevantly "We Proudly Brew Starbucks". Unfortunately for them, they can't even give away their burnt, undated beans to most independent cafes.

I find it funny that all of a sudden these "indie" coffee shops are going to stop using their 11k coffee makers just because of some corporate ownership.

In related story, "indie owner cuts off nose"

@Machete_Bear: Looking at a lot of contract law, this makes perfect sense to me. If my competitor buys one of my suppliers, I probably don't want to be giving them money anymore. It's pretty common for contracts (as an example, since there was no 'contract' mentioned) to have a clause allowing the buyer to opt out in the case of a change of ownership of the supplier.

Too mad so many responders on here don't understand a simple concept: Principles.

Sometimes standing up for what you think is right isn't convenient or cost efficient. That just makes it all the more admirable.

If anyone is from Portland or familiar with Portland, you will also be familiar with Stumptown Coffee, which is who this article references.

Stumptown, in addition to winning just about every national and international award available for coffee, also sets an immensely high standard for sustainable business practices. The engage in direct trade with much of their supplies, have set record high prices with their growers, and their insanely knowledgeable baristas are some of the highest paid in the business.

Because of the way they chose to do business, they obviously place a high priority on things other than just the taste of their coffee. They have made a choice to disassociate themselves from Starbucks, who has a very different corporate policy. By discontinuing use of the Clover, they are letting their belief system dictate the way the way the way they do business, and, I imagine, ceasing any inadvertent promotion of a machine that will mostly be found in Starbucks.

They may lose a few customers who will want to keep their Clover coffee, but they will keep their core customer base who believe that a business can do more than just make money...they can influence and improve the world.

-An ex-Portlander who misses her Stumptown coffee badly

Dumb move on the indie's part.

I would make an argument that Starbucks was the gateway drug that reintroduced coffee to the world. Sales were in a slump and drink-er-ship was down until starbucks made it cool to drink coffee again. Now, the whole industry is back up and kicking.

So, while they can be aficionado snobs, Starbucks has likely helped them with profits in the last 10 years.

So I'm guessing this guy doesn't invest in ANY company he doesn't like in the stock market, for example?

The only thing I hate more than the Starbucks image is the pretentious, self-righteous indie coffee shop image.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Indie could easily make the case that Starbucks is trying to emulate them; because their coffee is the gold standard.

It's not even the principles of not buying from Starbucks. There is a decent chance Starbucks will up prices on all filters/parts ect, in an attempt to keep the indie shops from being competitive. Starbucks isn't exactly known for supporting competition in the marketplace.

@Kasey620: I live down the road a couple hours, but I try to hit stumptown to pick up a pound everytime I make it into town. It's simply the best coffee I can get close :)

While I agree it doesn't make a lot of business sense in the normal world, this is Portland we're talking about, and they've managed to make a lot of things that supposedly don't work in the real world work alright.

I expect that Stumptown will live on just fine. Indeed, it may be keeping it's clientele by getting rid of the Clover... Portland is a place where 9 year olds call Starbucks a cancer and their new stores get firebombed (well, at least once). They are extremely proud of their indie heritage there, and they have enough people who will support it just for that.

If you are big enough to have a "Director of Operations", you ain't freaking indie.

@johnva:

So I'm guessing this guy doesn't invest in ANY company he doesn't like in the stock market, for example?

"Doesn't like" and "Directly competing with" are two entirely different things.

Alright, I was gonna leave my two-cents out but I can't take this.

Fuck your indie coffee shop. Seriously! Not only does your watered down coffee taste like ass and your barista is beyond pretentious and is blasting some shit CD I don't want to hear, but you also come nowhere close to Starbucks on the following levels:

-Employee Benefits: Hate Starbucks all you want. Let's see your dinky indie shop give over 15 part-time workers health insurance. No seriously, go ahead. I'll wait. They have plenty of other social programs too like the Ethos water. Complain all you want but I don't see the CVS down the block donating money from Poland Spring bottles, do you? Right, so quit complaining and go back to listening to Rites of Spring or whatever.

-Convenience: Even when I didn't live in NYC, it was still easy to find a Starbucks. I drink my coffee black but I'm a pretty big fan of Starbucks' coffee, their brewing methods and their other drinks. Now in NYC, I can find one anywhere and it's great when I'm low on time and don't have the time to keep my indie "cred" up.

-Amenities: With this new AT&T WiFi deal, having free or dirt-cheap internet will be a plus for Starbucks. Even with their previous provider, T-Mobile, you still got to use the same account for access at over thousands of Starbucks locations! The Starbucks I go to also has comfy couches, copies of NYT to read for free, and most importantly, a ton of hot chicks. The latter of course being something that indie shops usually lack.

Truth.

way to take it to the system, guys.

@Hawk07: There is good evidence to support the assertion that Starbucks has vastly expanded the market. Indie shops are thriving and multiplying, especially when Starbucks comes to town.

People take their coffee drinking "very seriously" it seems. It's amazing how invested people are in their morning wake up drug.

@Fusioned:

Ok, I'll do you one better: Stumptown not only offers health insurance, they have a full-time on-staff massage therapist, and has helped their employees produce an album by their various bands.

They have free-wifi.

Their "watered down" coffee has won just about every coffee award invented.

So pretty much the only argument you've got is that you can find one where ever you go. I guess you and I differ in that I just don't see that as much of a selling point. You can also find McDonalds wherever you go, too.

yeah not using $11,000 machines that you own will show starbucks (that customers will like the starbucks coffee better from now on).

Geez, fellahs, let a thousand flowers bloom.
Starbucks is a model of how progressive, large companies can treat their employees.
Independent brewers are entitled to make decisions they feel are ethical.
You can support both without getting yourself tied up into ethical knots.

@Fusioned: extremely well said!!!

Ahh, now I understand: it's a publicity stunt. Good move, Stumptown Coffee.

cutting off your nose to spite your face ALWAYS works. if it made your coffee taste even better (cuz it's not like it doesn't already taste a helluva lot better than starbucks) you should keep up your own quality standards.

and you bought the machine before it was owned by BIG EVIL CORPORATION. so you're now paying for maintenance and coffee filters? big whoop. they won't notice.