Cue 300 comment thread.... now!

Hmmm, if he lashed out at them or pushed through them (or touched them) then he is wrong.

However, if he was trying to exit peacefully and they forcefully tried to detain him, I think he had a right to defend himself.. to an extent.

Will be interesting to see where this goes.

Anymore, I show a receipt everywhere.... Just not worth my time to be hassled about it.

WTG Charles. Hope he wins and files a civil.

I've never understood the point of complaining or objecting to the poor sap who just happens to have the job of receipt checker. As if that person has any power, other than to get themselves fired if they don't do their job. Seems a far better tact is to turn around and lodge your complaint with the manager, and maybe write a letter to the regional managers as well. Or maybe even just head over to customer service and return the merchandise, then go buy it somewhere else. Why on earth pic on the folks at the door...

I still don't see the big deal with this. It's a receipt. Just show them the receipt. Is all this hassle, court dates, and legel mess really worth not letting the 75 year old woman at the front see you bought a shoe rack and some toilet paper? Come on people.

Mandelbaum
Mandelbaum
Mandelbaum

@chemmy: This.

If he was "forcibly" detained, i.e. someone grabbed his arm or blocked his exit (as we read about here a bit too often), this guy has the right to defend himself. If this is something else, let him cook.

@Drowner: Everything has to start somewhere. Where we go next is upto us as consumers. If we let them check our property, which it is the second you pay for it, then what is next? "We need to check your coat to make sure nothing is in there" and so forth.

Know and stand up for your rights!

When in Walmart, I just feel too sorry for the door ''security'' not to show my receipt. In our Walmart, they are always polite, and often help with difficult to carry packages.

Assuming they did actually grab them isn't this in violation of their rule about not getting into physical altercations with shoplifters (especially since he wasn't seen shoplifting)?

What about the Home Depot guy who got fired for chasing down a thief? If you're not allowed to stop someone you've actually caught stealing how do you justify grabbing someone who won't show the receipt?

Now, if they didn't touch him then he is (I got this one from Customers Suck) a glorious butt turban for pushing the greeter.

Come on dude, leave the recepit man alone. Its not like Wal-Mart greeters are American Gladiators. Theyre like 5 ft tall octogenarians.

f-that. They touch me it is ON.

This is simple. If they block your exit, tell them you either let me through or will be taking the fire door out.

There seems to be some sort of double-edge sword here, seems like a no-win situation for the stores.

Consumers are saying that they don't have to show a receipt, yet what is actually stopping anyone from just plain old stealing?

Sure one may argue that the products are the plastic/paper bag. But I remember reading a story how some guy bought something that was too big for a bag and was just walking out of the store with.

How is it being "treated" as criminal if they check receipts for everyone walking out of the store?

@APFPilot: and by on I mean police are called, and then Wal-Mart is sued.

if two guys grabbed me you better believe I will fight back! Walmart needs to train their employees on what they CAN or CANNOT do when someone refuses to show a reciept.

Forcibly laying your hands on someone else is a serious thing.

hopefully this will cause some of you 'crusaders' out there to rethink being an a$$hat and just show the 75 year old grandma your little receipt that you know they're going to ask for anyway instead of being a d*ck and acting like they're invading your privacy for making sure you aren't a thieving d*ck...

If your a sheep, that shows your receipt, you should find another website to visit. REAL Consumers are not sheep.

I don't show receipts anywhere except costco and only because there is a written contract between myself and costco.

Outside of that, they can either break the law and illegally detain me, or they can let me go. Asking to see your receipt is fine, illegally detaining you is AGAINST THE LAW.

So i should not show my receipt and then sleep with underage girls. awesome advice!

@braindesign: Think again. If you detain me against my will, I WILL do everything in my power to break free. This is within the law.

This case boils down to who is ultimately telling the truth and other specific details that we are not so sure about.

@david.c: <<

@braindesign: Exactly! I'm not even going to list my personal feelings, pro or con on receipts, but some agreement here that hostility toward the lowest level employees, whether the receipt checker at Walmart or the first tier CSR support on a phone call is pointless?

To 'stand up' to a clerk isn't being a courageous consumer, it's being a bully. Do what the earlier posts suggest and take the time to complain to a manager, corporate, etc.

Read the interview with Ron Burley. Politeness counts. Once you become agressive or hostile , even when justified by the treatment you are receiving, you lose.

In the State of Florida, if I feel threatened, I can shoot them...well, there are some catches, but lets just say, if I break their arm, they should be lucky.

And yes, there is a slight tone of sarcasm there...but I have been to jail before...lets guess why ;)

@exkon:

Here's the "win" situation for the stores. Have good security, not some jamoke regular employee who doesnt know what to do when dealing with shoplifters (or someone who has just bought an item & doesnt want to show a reciept when exiting).

Treating everyone who walks from the end of the checkout lane to the exit as a potential shoplifter is NOT how you operate a business.

If I may play the part of Bens brain when he was first presented with this article: "Please don't mention my blog! Please don't mention my blog! Please don't mention my blog!"

I generally don't mind showing my receipt, unless there is a receipt nazi forcing people to form a long line of buggies while they inspect each and every cart thoroughly to mentally inventory every list-item on the receipt.

At that point, I just walk around the idiots and walk out.

Just to get it out of the way; it is not a 4th Amendment violation, but you are not required to show your receipt. Now lets just concentrate of flaming each other over whether you should or not.

@exkon: "There seems to be some sort of double-edge sword here, seems like a no-win situation for the stores."

No sword here ...

@exkon: "Consumers are saying that they don't have to show a receipt, yet what is actually stopping anyone from just plain old stealing?"

Nothing. Then again, not producing a receipt for a product DOESN'T make you guilty of shop lifting in a court of law. 1) They have to see you take the product off the shelf. 2) They have to never lose sight of you from the moment on. 3) They have to ask you some question (of which, may I see your receipt is not one). 4) You have to exit the store with the property. (might have one of these wrong or missed one)

Checking receipts has NOTHING to do with shop lifting.

@exkon: "How is it being "treated" as criminal if they check receipts for everyone walking out of the store?"

When the store *detains* you because you refuse to show your receipt, they do so with the reason that only CRIMINALS won't show the receipt. Ergo, when you get *detained* you are being treated like a criminal.

They can *ask* for anything they want ... when they detain you *only* because you don't show the receipt is when the store cross the line and become criminal.

@differcult: Eh, I'd rather save my breath for the strip search part of purchasing items from your future totalitarian walmart.

@david.c: REAL consumers aren't preachy braggarts either. Don't tell me where I should and should not blow my workday. You sound like one of those people who prays for the police to visit your house when you have a loud party just so you can deny them entry and chuckle about how clever you are.

@SkokieGuy: To 'stand up' to a clerk isn't being a courageous consumer, it's being a bully.

I can't believe you just turned the "bully" of a clerk into the "innocent" victim!

Classic example of someone avoiding personal responsibility. If any store personell "illegally" detains an individual by means of physical force, that *is* being a bully. Sorry, you don't get to break laws cause your employer told you to.

Case law has already flushed out what it takes to convict a person of shoplifting and NOT *having* a receipt is NOT justification for arrest. (let alone not showing your receipt).

@alphafemale: The problem with this is that the receipt checker CHOOSES to perform that function. It is a classic "I was only following orders" defense.

@braindesign: Do you really not see what's wrong with assuming that every customer is a thieving d*ck and each and every one must prove themselves otherwise?

I love these threads. Love how it progresses from "let them check your receipt" to "1984 style society". I'd love to see a movie with that plot. Carry on.

Thanks, @differcult. I feel like people don't say that often enough in these conversations, and I think it's the whole point of the great receipt argument.

@Drowner: "REAL consumers aren't preachy braggarts either"

Really? according to whom? you? Lawlz.

I called you a sheep ... if the "baaaaah" fits :-)

You can makeup any number of fictitious unlawful things you can think of to cast dispersions on me, but that doesn't make them true and more importantly, it doesn't make you a non-sheep now does it?

You want to give up your rights and show your receipt, that is YOUR business. But coming to a "Consumer Rights" forum such as this and *preaching* to people that they should give up their rights is kind of "anti-community" wouldn't you say?

I can and do have the *freedom* to suggest you go find a more "sheeeeepish" community to bother, as long as I abide by the forum "rules".

Who cares, all it takes is 2-5 seconds, God forbid people were held up that long. Tell you what to combat this fear of a 5 second delay just take a Xanax 30 minutes before shopping, trust me after that everything is going to be great, no stress, you will feel at ease.
I bet that guy feels like a dumb ass now. a 5 second delay has been coverted to a very long delay with possability of an extended stay and Bubba's Playhouse..

@Franklin Comes Alive!: No sh*t. LOL

@david.c: To have a discussion with a low-level clerk about what is or isn't your legal rights is pointless. He / She has zero ability to have any impact on Walmart or any other business making any change. But it's easy and allows the consumer to strut out the store, proud of how "I showed them! I know my rights!".

Writing a letter to coporate, talking to a store manager, these are the things that at least have the potential of creating change. But they take more time and effort.

@SarcasticDwarf: Do you really think people CHOOSE to be receipt checkers? Its called needing a job and doing what you're told. Are you gonna feed and pay the rent of a store clerk who quits because they don't like the companies policies? This isn't Nazi storm troopers, this is someone with a minimum wage job, that they probably hate, trying to feed and clothe themselves and have a roof over their head.

I'm said way too much today in too many postings. Thanks as always Ben for amazing content and stories. Y'all fire away, no more responses from me. Have fun!

exkon said "what is actually stopping anyone from just plain old stealing?"

I think it should be incumbent upon the stores to design themselves in such a way as to diminish the likelyhood of theft. I mean there's got to be some architechure company out there with the know-how to design a walmart so that they can keep track of who's leaving with what (that be a hell of a money maker, landing a contract to redesign WalMarts)- There's no reason for these companies to keep putting someone's grandma in the line of fire...

If enough people lodged complaints with - as my mother called them - "the uppity-ups and the biggity-bigs" who are in positions powerful enough to make a difference, maybe the companies in question would invest in a redesign of their stores.

I just want to say that I personally dont have much of a problem showing my reciept to some old lady door-greeter at the local walmart if there isnt a line. Its the big dude (watching security cameras & checking reciepts of people leaving) at places like best buy who I dont like showing my reciept to.

Maybe its the intimidation factor that gets my goat. *shrug*

Nice old lady that asks... sure, why not. Six foot tall dude w/attitude who asks.... sorry not gonna happen.

I must admit that I did not see what the big deal was - until I made a purchase (that was too big for a bag) at Wal-Mart last week. There was a line for the sloooooow receipt checker, so I just walked right out the other set of doors. The receipt jockey had the nerve to start yelling (really) at me to "Wait a moment!". I just kept walking. I was not detained nor chased after.

Its never important until it happens to you. Apologies to all those who I argued with last time - receipt checking should not be allowed and it should not be a Wal-Mart policy that they encourge. Bad Wal-Mart.

What's the problem here? Sounds like they grabbed him, and if someone grabs you you have the right to use force to escape detainment, and I sure as hell would be arguing that if grabbed by a stranger I was afraid for my life... especially if it was a man who did it. I have no desire to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered so I view grabbings by strange males as threat of such.

Now if he had just randomly attacked the greeter, that would be another story.

Maybe it's just me and someone wiser on here can explain it to me. How is it that if I am say out on the street and someone tries to grab me and hold me against my will that I can have them charged with assault or even kidnapping, or if my husband and I were to get into a fight and he grabbed my arm or tried to stop me from leaving the house that HE could be charged with assault, domestic violence or even kidnapping by holding me against my will? BUT, if I happen to go into a store and they ask me to see my receipt and I tell them "NO!" that they can stop me and try to hold me against my will without any repercussions?

Do you lose all your constitutional rights when you walk into a Walmart?

@SkokieGuy: To have a discussion with a low-level clerk about what is or isn't your legal rights is pointless.

I don't see how you can think that educating people on their rights is pointless?

If the clerk didn't know he was violating peoples rights by stopping them, he knows now.

If he did know, that is still no reason to not to the "right thing" and refuse to show your receipt. Political Correctness or Fear of being Embarrassed are NEVER valid reasons for relinquishing your rights.

Chances are, that clerks that physically stop you DON'T know that's illegal and you have just taken care of that problem with that clerk.

@SarcasticDwarf: I don't really think it's fair to compare receipt checkers with nazi war criminals. And yes, they choose to be employed, and they take the shittiest job on the totem pole and pray for a new hire to come along so they can move up to stocking shelves. Yes, they are following orders, but at what point to you decide that going after the order-follower isn't working? Shouldn't we be more concerned with going after the people giving the orders? Should we continue to let those order-givers slide while they offer up sacrificial lambs to deal with our anger? That's why I said, go get a manager, if he is inconvenienced everytime you want to leave the store maybe he'll think about the policy, but he isn't affected at all, he just watches from behind one way glass as poor Matilda, who doesn't even get enough social security to live on, has to deal with people getting riled up as she tries to do her job...

@Buran: ----------I have no desire to be kidnapped, raped, and murdered so I view grabbings by strange males as threat of such.----------
You are talking about a Walmart employee, seriously besides obsessive paranoia what reason would you have to think that a walmart employee that is checking receipts would try to kidnap, rape or murder you in front of numerous shoppers and fellow walmart employees.
I mean we all have reasoning skills right? Now if it were closing time and the walmart employee was outside in the parking lot that would be a different situation.

If you're being detained against your will could that be grounds for a kidnapping lawsuit?

@greensmurf: "You are talking about a Walmart employee, seriously besides obsessive paranoia what reason would you have to think".

The question was: What is the difference?

Your answer is: Because there are a lot of people around?

Illegal is Illegal ... regardless of how many witnesses are around to see it :-p

@alphafemale: "Yes, they are following orders, but at what point to you decide that going after the order-follower isn't working?"

Nobody is going "after" the order-follower. This is not about "changing the world".

Not showing your receipt is about not giving up your rights. Plain and simple.

When people try to take your rights away, whatever those rights are, you *have* a choice to make. Allow it or Don't.

You (et al) would advise people to *give* up their rights till they can write letters and make phone calls to try to effect change, and if the change never happens? Since you gave up your rights, you have lost them forever.

How silly is that? You voluntarily give up your rights, till such time as walmart (et al) decide to give you back what you gave up willingly? Don't hold your breath on that one.