Companies love to swear you're the first one to file a complaint about something even when there are massive lists of people having that same problem on message forums discussing that company's products, most of whom say they did report the problem.

Someone really needs to get a group of such people together, have all of them document their complaint (registered-mail letter to customer relations, or something), wait for the company to lie and say they've never heard of the issue, and slam them with a lawsuit.

I am one of the owners and its legit from my perspective. hopefully a resolution is on the horizon as its rather annoying when you try to shift into 3rd gear and your locked out. probably happens twice a week.

you can read more about it here: [www.8thcivic.com]

ironically, i bought this car for the reliability factor.

Just to play devil's advocate here...

I work in tech support and I generally DO tell people if they're the first ones reporting something, so that they understand why we may not have an immediate resolution. Some people are very skeptical and will forward us to forum posts. Generally, it's obviously not the same issue. In the one or two cases where it was the same issue, those people actually never did contact us. They just posted on some message board somewhere. We're a small company, but no company can really afford to troll forums, answering board posts from unsatisfied customers.

That said, it's easy for a large company employee to say "that's the first report" and simply be in error, too. Not an excuse, but, it happens.

I've known about the Honda/Acura V6 automatic trannies being flaky but this is the first I've heard about issues with the SI transmissions

We received nothing but the runaround from Honda America with documented, recurrent problems experienced with our brand new, in-warranty 2005 Sir Vee. No help, no intervention with the dealer. Nada, zero, zip. It is our sixth and last Honda.

hmmm, just more proof that the "pillar" of Quality is crumbling...

I've had 2 Hondas that I bought new, and both were the biggest piles I've ever had. My last and current is a Leased S2000 that has been problematic since day one. Rattles, Groans, Convertible Top Mechanism went bad, then the top motor went bad, then the hood release cable snapped, then the right speaker quit working, then the top started leaking ALOT. And the Final blow was the #3 cylinder ignition miss-fired and bent a rod in the engine. All this with in teh first 14,000 miles, and no it's completely stock and unmolested. I guess whoever put this one together drank too much Saki on their lunch break. Hondas are good cars in general, but I've had some bad luck. I'll be glad when the Lease is up so I can be rid of this turd. But, it is still a blast to drive.

@acutusnothus:

Yep, cause Hondas are perfect and can't possible have a major recurrent problem.... Or so they seem to believe.

AMAZING old familiar problem....my 1976 honda civic was recalled for that same condition...!
and my 1989 Suzuki quit 3rd gear altogether in 2000, so I just shifted 2nd to 4th for years

scoobie owners have been complaining of transmission woes for years...

im sure honda will be taking as seriously as SOA has.

Well maybe people should be glad Honda isn't being hasty on this deal. What do they want, another transmission that may do the same thing again? Of course the lawyers are jumping all over it before Honda even has a chance to find a solution or even the problem in the first case. It's not like the cars are undriveable, annoying I'm sure, but give it a week at least before you jump on them with lawyers.

@SRTSIX: Where was that claim made in the post you responded to?

@LamerX: It's not that, it's the lying to customers.

This isn't just the civic. It's all the 6spd manual transmissions. The Acura TL has the same issue. (Honda makes acura)

Oh and supposedly there is a fix in the works. Rumor is that they are going to replace the shift forks. They have aluminum ones currently, they will replace with stronger steel ones.

@SRTSIX: The only thing I hated about the S2000 was the shift knob. The one I rented required you to press down on the top of the knob to open up the reverse gear -- if you didnt press on the top of the knob, you couldn't get into reverse at all. Seemingly neat, except occasionally, while waiting at a light, the knob would fall down all on its own and prevent me from getting into first. The person behind me was usually very thankful for this delay in traffic and would reward me graciously with musical sounds from their car.

I don't know if they're still like this but it was a HUGE pain in the arse. Otherwise, yeah, awesome car. Handled like a go-kart, and the sound above 6k RPM was very Formula 1-esque :)

sounds like a reason to buy american. No expectations about it being a perfect car. I drive a ford, my 2nd one, and when there is a problem they send me a letter and fix it right away. I know the car is going to have problems thats why I'm not worried. I just got a great deal on it because resale value isn't that great, and it wasn't selling anyhow, and I plan on driving it into the ground. My last ford I drove for 12 years, and I rolled it into the back of a pickup truck. He had 6k worth of damage supposedly where I only had maybe 1k if even that, which I don't know how as my car was f-ed up looking compared to his. I still have that ford btw, only 70k miles on it.

@socalrob: hah hah, that made me laugh, Fords do last body wise but engine wise is another matter. Still my sister had a f-150 and some guy rear ended her, her bumper was pushed in and the guys car whole front end was smashed in, Ford tough is true.

@Geekybiker: And that's why, in places where Acura doesn't exist (basically outside of North America, where people don't fall for rebadges as easily as we do) you can get things like the "Honda NSX".

@Geekybiker: Yep, I've been having the exact same problem (popping out of or refusing to go into 3rd gear) in my '05 Acura RSX for 3 years. They've never heard of the problem and of course they can't replicate it.

Sadly there never seemed to be enough Type S (with the 6-speed manual) owners to make enough of a fuss. So I'm giddy that it's happening to the Civics, finally they won't be able to ignore the problem anymore.

Side note for any Acura or Civic owners who are seeing this problem. When you take it into the shop, go with the tech who's testing it and don't let him double clutch! Anyone who has the problem knows that while moving this will allow you to get back into 3rd and from what I hear the techs know to double clutch and avoid the problem.

@howie_in_az: Volkswagen is like that too -- but considering the fact that reverse in many VW transmissions (such as my fourth-gen Golf) you moved the lever left and up. Make a mistake trying to take off from a light, and you slam into the car behind you. That interlock is there for a good reason.

I don't know if the 5th-gen Golf is like that too but I know the GTI is since the "conventional" right-and-down location is taken up by sixth gear.

My experience with Honda was precisely the reverse. The compressor in my AC blew out about 2 months out of warranty. The entire system needed to be flushed (because of particulates) and it was going to cost around $1800 to fix.

They paid for the whole thing, as it was a somewhat common issue with CR-Vs.

I've decided I'm never buying anything but a Honda again, in light of that fantastic service. I didn't even ASK for all that, I did suggest that Honda should do something, and they went the whole way.

I bet this situation is resolved to customer's satisfaction as well.

@Buran: No, my BMWs have been the same way -- push hard to the left and up. I think all or most German cars are like this, but I can't remember how the Boxster was.

[image.automotive.com]

See how there's a knob on top of the small stalk? That's the part that could be moved up or down to allow you to get into reverse (or 1st-6th). The problem was that, possibly due to the age of the car, it was loose, and would 'fall' all by itself. Once it fell you had to lift it back up to get into 1st-6th before the person behind you was booked for assault.

My '05 Acura RSX S with a 6-speed manual has had this problem, as well as one related to grind in 2nd and 3rd gear, since we bought it in Sept '04. It has been in the shop 12 times, for this problem, while under warranty and still isn't fixed. They have replaced both 2nd and 3rd gear (3rd gear twice) but claimed adamantly that they had never heard of this problem before and that they could not replicate it (which is not surprising since, for me this problem happens about once per every eight hours of driving and they only take the car out for 5 minute stretches).

They continually questioned my ability to drive a manual, and one service employee told me I was imagining the problem. The transmission problem itself, while irritating, didn't bother me nearly as much as the implication from Acura service that I was making it up.

Loving this story so I submitted it to Digg: [digg.com]

@fluiddruid: Ok.. I'll give you that as I work in tech support too and I know you can't monitor all of the possible online forums out there. Buuuut. Somebody at Honda certainly has a subscription to Road & Track. No??? I mean at a minimum someone is reviewing their add placement right?

This issue has been around on ALL K-series 6 speed trannies for a long time. Go to any of the RSX forums ( [www.clubrsx.com] ) and ask there, or just watch the Hot Version American Touge 2 that featured an RSX-S that kept disengauging third on Tsuchia.

The SI is definately the worst offender but Honda has been trying to sweep this one under the rug for a long time now. BUT HERE IS THE BEST PART! Read Car and Drivers review on their long term SI:
[www.edmunds.com]

Quote "Near the 10,000-mile mark we noticed the shift lever became reluctant to find 3rd gear during the upshift from 2nd. The issue was even more pronounced when the car was cold..." "So we were disappointed to learn that its technicians "could not repeat the issue," but even more so when we learned this was the first they'd heard of it. Minimal research on our part found Civic Si owner forums on CarSpace and other Internet sites that described this same problem, assuring us we weren't alone.

Various tips were available online at the time offering potential fixes, but none of them were approved by Honda. Our intentions to sell the car after the test dictated that we keep it in stock condition and wait for Honda to issue a service bulletin. It didn't happen during our ownership, so we taught ourselves to make an extra effort to engage 3rd gear."

Dont get me wrong, honda makes a great car, I've owned 2 myself, but they really should have resolved this issue a long time ago.

Huh, my dad's hybrid Honda Civic had this exact same problem, except his was under a recall and they fix it for free, weeks ago.

@Annath: fixed* yarg.

Oh yeah, check out Road and Tracks comments:
[www.roadandtrack.com]

Quote" possibly due to synchronizer wear or worn bushings, the 2-3 shift became less precise, resulting in a missed shift should the action be too quick or lack deliberateness. Occasionally, even when shifting slowly and with utmost concentration, we ran into binding resistance going into 3rd, which would kick the gear-shift lever back to neutral if the clutch was let out a moment too soon."

@greensmurf: I had an 87 Ford T-Bird Sport powered by a SEFI 5.0 with 200K miles on it. Never burned oil. Was amazingly thrifty for an eight banger too. Body, no, it was dissolving away.

@socalrob: Or buy Chinese as Ford was one of the 3 "domestic" car companies to outsource parts to China. Meanwhile, my "imported" Subaru was built in a far off land called Indiana.

@SRTSIX: One wonders where it was screwdriver-ed together.

Off topic, but a funny story about being the only one.

I booked an airline ticket for me and my 2 year old daughter to go to Chicago to visit family. On my return trip, I checked the internet to make sure my flight on time. Check. I goto the airport 3 hours early, drop off my rental car, and stroll up to the ticket counter to check in. No one is there. hmmmm. Some one notices me and comes over.

Me: Hi I'm on the 10:00 to LA.

Ticket Counter Person: There isn't a flight to LA at 10:00

Me: Oh?! that's funny, my ticket says Tuesday, 10:00

TCP: That can't be, the next flight isn't until Thursday. In fact, that's the only flight we have until then.

Me: Then why does my ticket and the website say that my flight leaves on Tuesday

TCP: It must be a mistake.

Me: Well I need to get home, this isn't my mistake. I'd like you to put me on a different airline.

TCP: Sorry, I can't do that

The woman who was helping me insinuated that I must be at fault so how. So I go back to the phone booths and try calling people who might be able to help me. I also call my wife and have her start calling people so that we double the effort. As I'm waiting there, A huge line of people starts building up behind the counter. I get back in line.

Me: Hello again... it seems like I'm not the only person who was mistaken. I need to get back to LA. I would like to be put onto another carrier to get home. This is obviously not my fault here.

TCP: No you're the only person who showed up and had this problem.

Me: But, the entire plane showed up thinking today was the flight.

TCP: No its just you

My daughter spills a bottle of orange juice down her shirt and starts screaming I figure that I have lost and might as well go back and get a rental car. In the end they gave me one free ticket to come back to Chicago. Which I did not redeem. I had no desire to go through that again.

My 2000 Accord V6 transmission is junk. Changed the fluid every 30K, and it's slipping at 107K. Had it since new. My Taurus transmission, oddly, shifts just fine (same year, about the same mileage, changed fluid every 30K, original transmission).

I too have a 2007 Si and have experienced this problem, and also tried to get my dealership to fix it - which of course they didn't since there was no recal or service notice. They too said they couldn't replicate the problem but it happens, and third gear is never as clean of a shift as the other gears, all them slide in smoothly except you have to put some force behind shifting into third to make sure it is in there solidly or you run the risk of having it kick back out at you. I really hope this gets a recall, it will make a lot of Si owners happy.

I'll tell the story again, just because somebody is listening.

My wife bought a brand new 1996 Honda Civic based on reviews and Consumer Reports. It was the VTEC with an automatic transmission. She had all maintenance, including oil changes done by the dealership.

The car ran flawless for about 30,000 miles. Then they did the "scheduled maintenance" and the car never worked right again.

The following morning, I heard her start the car from across the street. I was inside a closed up house. The car was in a parking lot behind the row of buildings. The car sounded like it was about to throw a rod. I've had every piece of crap car in 25 years from a 1967 Tempest to a 1995 S-10 and I've never heard a car run that bad, if it started at all. At 30,000 miles.

We took the car back and complained. About 3 dozen times over the next 3 years. They told us that it was a normal engine noise. Over and over again. All of a sudden we had "piston slap". Neither Honda of North America or the dealer would stand behind their work or the warranty. What you need, they said, was a heavier oil. And then we needed synthetic. By the time it was over they were putting 50 weight in it and it couldn't keep it quiet.

When the extended (yes, she paid extra) warranty ran out at 70,000 miles, they told us it needed a new motor. We pointed to the mountain of complaints and paperwork we had generated and they agreed, yes, we had complained a bunch. It was documented. And there was nothing they could do. We'd have to pay to fix it or buy a new car. My wife was heartbroken. She does not take buying a car lightly and did not intend on replacing it anywhere near that soon. Nobody but the dealer ever touched that motor.

It was evident to me at the beginning, and I suggested to them, that they had adjusted the valves according to the pre-VTEC specs and screwed up the valve timing. I obviously could not have been more wrong. I've had cars, I've had bikes, I've had trucks. About 40 in all at that time. I'm an idiot apparently.

Because of the excessively stupid resale value on Hondas, we got $5K on it for a trade in. For a Chevy (yes it went more than 70K miles so far and for far less $ than the Honda). I apologize to whomever got that POS Honda. It's not my fault. I wanted to stick a rag in the gas tank, light it and send it through the showroom. Since it was her car, cooler heads prevailed.

I have no grudge against Honda the manufacturer or the car itself or even Japan incorporated. I love my Honda motorcycles. This is all on the dealer (Capital Honda) and Honda of North America. As far as I'm concerned they have wronged me more than any other dealer or company I have ever dealt with. They can kiss my ass.

We've still got all the paperwork if they want to file a suit because I'm "damaging" their reputation.

I was one of the co-authors of the original article from automotivetech.org linked here. It is amazing how a problem like this gets shrugged off by a manufacturer.

While I partly blame dealers for not being proactive enough for the customers, it falls more on Honda corporate.

After talking to at least 10 service managers and reps from Honda instead of providing a time table for an engineering fix I was shrugged off.

Most companies who use a network like dealerships to support their products have an obligation to provide the network more detailed and up to date technical information. Honda does not do this well enough, and has been an issue for quite some time.

Hope everyone with an issue gets this resolved sometime soon.

Mark

I have a 2007 Honda Civic Si and have been experiencing the same issue. I decided to take my vehicle to Honda of Thousand Oaks and try my luck at getting it repaired.

While there was no Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) for the third gear problem, the service advisor found that Honda had a communication about this issue. It stated that some customers have reported that while switching into 3rd gear it pops out. The fix was to drain the transmission fluid (that may be old or non-Honda) and to refill it with Honda transmission fluid.

This was covered under warranty and while it seemed to improve the condition, I can't switch gears smoothly as they seem to be "tight".

A friendly message to Honda: PLEASE BE ACCOUNTABLE AND FIX THE PROBLEM.

Thank you.

Ive got an '07 Civic Si and had this problem too. It only happens when the car is cold. Usually in the first 5 or so minutes of driving. Now that the weather has warmed up and I'm in texas, the problem has gone away so I guess I"ll wait till next winter and try to get it fixed then.

I've heard a few scant reports about these transmission problems with Hondas over the years, but never anything substantial. If your Honda dealership won't help you then you need to go to a better dealership. Unfortunately too many Honda dealerships are run by total asshats.

As for the ones who have "American" cars that are perfect, you are extremely lucky. I was a tech for many years at different dealerships and the domestic cars are still crap compared to the Japanese ones.

Add the 1989 Acura Integra to the list, been through the "popping out of 5th" on one transmission, another went to pieces inside...

I wasn't aware that Honda had such serious transmission problems, was blaming it on some sort of driver behavior but after reading the comments above I'm beginning to think differently. Never had a problem with a manual transmission before - but those were Toyotas. Now that I'm in the market again I'm going to lean back toward Toyota/Lexus.

Honda Odysseys (I think as well as some other Honda V6 vehicles too?) are notorious for having shitty transmissions. My mom has an Odyssey and its transmission went out at 75K miles, and a substantial number of Odyssey owners have had to have their transmission replaced once or more.

@SRTSIX:
`bent a rod` really? That's funny because I wasn't aware that the DOHC I4 in the S2000 had push rods? I must be mistaken though because what douchebag would make up that he owns a troublesome S2000.

"I wasn't aware that Honda had such serious transmission problems"

"Honda" doesn't. A particular few models do. I have a civic with 170k miles on it and the tranny is fine. Most civics are like that, and accords too. It's not a systemic problem, it's just a faulty design on a particular line of cars.

Might be a good idea to check the NHTSA recall database once or twice a year.

@ericschwartz: The transmission fluid trick has been the RSX community's fix for years, but it's only a stop gap. In a couple of months (depending on how much you drive of course) it's going to come back. Not a big deal if they'll keep swapping the fluid under warranty, I guess.

@jimv2000: I disagree. Their 6-speed manual trannies seem to be consistently crap.

@JeffMc:

I put in Amsoil MTF fluid and the reluctant 3rd problem went away. I still have the 1->2 grind when shifting at high RPM.

I had an '96 Acura Integra GSR. Loved it. I used it has a daily commuter in southern California (Orange County). It had a great engine & manual transmission. It almost made sitting in traffic tolerable. After 8 years & 87,000 miles of owning it from new (almost completely trouble free) I decided to purchase its replacement model, the '03 Acura RSX-S, again new.
This car had the 6 speed transmission. At about the first 1,000 miles it became difficult to shift when cold. By about 3,000 miles I took it in for an oil change & mentioned it to the service tech. The dealership was generally helpful at this point. At the next service (at about 6,000 miles) I mentioned it again & they replaced the syncros in the transmission. I was back to the same problem at about 8,000 miles. The transmission was difficult to shift when cold & randomly popping out of 3rd gear. At this point the dealership requested from American Honda if they could rebuild the transmission again. Honda refused. I contacted the Honda consumer affairs department & they still refused. I felt I had no choice but to file a lemon claim. By the time of the arbitration hearing the car had nearly the car was about 2 years old & had 18,000 miles. Honda sent in to the hearing a mechanic that I had never communicated with before. He stated that the dealership was saying that I was racing & abusing the car. This was a complete LIE! I spoke with the dealership service tech to see if they had anything to say & hoping we could repair it before the hearing schedule was set. He had no complaints about racing or otherwise. The arbiter test drove the car was able to get the transmission to pop out of gear but said it was because of his lack of practice with a manual transmission. His decision was that he found no problem because he was unable to replicate the condition. ARBITRATION WAS A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.
I will NEVER purchase another Honda or Acura product. I strongly urge my family & friends to do the same. I replaced it with a new '06 Infiniti G35 coupe with a 6 speed transmission. No problems at 2 years +/- 26,000 & a great ride.

@Benson2175: Inside of engines are these magical rods called connecting rods, which connect the crankshaft to the pistons. A false ignition in one cylinder while it is compressing could be enough to bend to connecting rod.

Wow... I didn't know I wasn't alone. I am one of the proud owner of the Civic SI. As much as I love my car the transmission problem has always bothered me. Not only it pops out once in a while, it's hard to switch to 3rd gear very often.

@ Sir Winston Thriller

For the URL to the NHTSA recall database, thanks! Or, as my peeps in Tennessee are wot to say, "Grassy ass!"