This is probably something that would be more of a sub-section of a main thought, but how about something along the lines of "Your customers actually DO care how you treat your employees." Costco is a perfect example.

What? The truth? I'll have you know sir, that lying is the cornerstone of our great economy!

I agree, generally, with points on and two. Marketing, however, still serves a purpose - people gotta find out what to talk about somehow! We all can't rely on Oprah.

Number three is good especially considering purchases made with cash. I don't care if you record my name if I hand you a plastic card with my name on it.

Amen on number four.

Five seems counterintuitive to the marketing suits. They don't realize that coming out and explaining things to people helps their image if they screw up. Remember the Tylenol/cyanide issue a few years back?

I'd add only one thing. Don't take things seriously. Show me you're seriously doing something.

@CaptainSemantics: And this is where I realize that you're talking to marketing folk. Maybe I should have realized that before I opened my big mouth.

@Xerloq:

I whole-heartedly agree with your final point. When I read an article or hear about how a company screwed up, I get annoyed at reading the non-answers the company provides in response and no details about what they're doing to fix it.

This is another subsection issue, maybe under customer feedback... please stop with the bullshit speeches you force your employees to spew when they pick up the phone. "Thank you for calling the Sandwich Palace, home of the 13 inch pastramipalooza, and be sure to ask me how to get your 5 pickle bucks. How may I assist you?

I used to hate saying "Welcome to Burger King." How bout letting your employees be human beings and say, oh, "Good Morning" or some such.

I stand by point #2 at least. How about a phone system that says something like "thank you for calling gamestop, how can I help you today" instead of "thank you for calling gamestop, would you like to preorder final fantasy crisis core, god of war, what systems do you own, oh would you like to preorder game x" because thats exactly what a call to a gamestop store sounds like. Many other businesses are doing this too and the customer seems almost forgotten and buried in the corporate bull they have to spout every time someone calls. Quit with the corporate bull, we don't want to hear it, and its not going to make us preorder a game or buy a product or service we never were interested in the first place. In fact, the only thing its going to do is make us customers have a bad attitude about having to wait longer to talk to an actual person, or get through the register line. We as consumers already have heard it so many times before that we just let it pass in one ear and out the other, we are numb to it.. Focus on what the customer wants, not what corporate wants.

This also goes for "taking it very seriously", if your taking it seriously, SHOW me that you are taking it seriously, and don't just spout something to make it look like you are taking it seriously. A better solution to these words would be "we are taking it very seriously by making x and y changes" or "we are taking this issue very seriously and we are doing this and that to make sure it does not happen again."

"You can't polish a turd." PRICELESS! Here I am sitting at my desk at work... I almost pissed my pants reading that.

I'm not sure how to word this, but something needs to be added to Point #4. Reading that, a lot of company's would say but I don't ignore my customer's feedback and complaints! The problem isn't about ignorance, it's the cycle of making the CS function more efficient, without auditing the end-result.

For instance, you offshore your CS function to India. Fine, great. Honestly, I can live with that. But then you wrap up that CS function in a neat little box, say "sorted!", and forget about it. WRONG!

If you are going to expect to gain long-term benefits and efficiencies from offshoring, you must follow-up and ensure that your customers are not getting screwed. Maybe that means you have to take a few trips to India over the next six months, and check things out. Maybe you need to ask your customers how it's going. You're going to spend money on that, and it will seem counter-intuitive to the "efficiency" goals you're trying to achieve. Deal with it. You will lose much more money if you ignore your new efficient CS and let them destroy your company by destroying your customer experience.

Lastly, when you've tried to improve costs but see a definite and negative impact on your customer experience, be prepared to pull the plug, quickly. Do not wait for it to get better. It won't.

@CaptainSemantics: I'd say that it's still a valid point you made. If a company has a reputation for being a good employer, that could be included in the marketing strategy. It's a feel-good data point that might sway someone who is otherwise uncommitted to any particula store or retailer.

Good luck with this. I have a feeling you're going to get a very cold reaction from these people.

I like your points though. I'm reminded of when Sony was doing focus groups on the PSP. The people kept telling Sony the hand held needed games, but the marketing guys just kept bringing up the music and video capabilities of the device. They totally ignored the input they asked for.

actual sincerity ,when apologising for something you screwed up, would be nice.

@mackjaz: Yes, yes, yes. I have no problem with a brief "Thank you for calling ____" or "Welcome to ______," but customers hate the required speeches, employees hate the required speeches, and somehow managers keep thinking they're great.

I would really stress the importance of using customer complaint calls / emails as opportunities to get folks to become true believers in your product. I have had so many inconsistent results to complaints and concerns, those companies and products that stand behind their product with a minimum of fuss really stand out in my view. Conversely, companies that hide behind 800 numbers, voice mail, poorly trained representatives (Dell comes to mind) will never see another dollar of mine, either personal, or through my business dealings if I can help it.

@mackjaz: Amen, cut the "tag-on" , If it is anylonger than "Burger Czar were the burgers are!". I don't want to hear it, and you are wasting my time.

@Shannon:
Ahhhhhhh but you CAN polish a turd. I've was doing it in the Hotel Renovation business for years. Same with house flipping.

In before "don't force people to show receipts on the way out"

1. I am less concerned with whether your customer service reps are native english speakers or not AS LONG AS THEY SOLVE MY PROBLEM WHEN I CALL. And don't make your non-American reps tell us their name is Joe/Frank/Cindy/Becky. We know it's not. That's immediately starting the call off with a lie which makes me distrust your rep and your company right off the bat.

2. Be more concerned with fixing my problem or answering my questions and less concerned with getting me off the phone in a mandated amount of time.

3. Allow your reps to talk to me like a person. Don't judge them on the amount of pleases or thank yous or how many times they used my name in the call. It all sounds fake, robotic and downright insincere. Don't be rude or stand-offish, just talk to me like we are having a normal conversation.

A lot of people are bringing up things that aren't as much marketing related as they are operations. The marketing goons don't care about receipt checking. They also don't have as much control (read- they don't care) over points 3 and 4.
The rest of your points are spot on.

Please use industry people for your focus groups instead of people off the street... I'm using a backup product called "qinetix" (pronounced kinetics), and its newest version has been renamed to "simpana"

so you went from a goofy name to something that sounds like a Feminine Hygeine product. For when my servers are not so fresh feeling in their cooters, apparently.

"You don't need marketing, you need better products."
You need both. Marketing has a purpose, but it's not enough for continued success and loyalty. The Motorola Razr was marketed in a big way and lots of people now own one. But a majority said they wouldn't buy a Motorola phone again because it's hard to operate.

"5 things your customers aren't telling you"
Quite literally, something your customers won't tell you (even if you do bother to inquire) is how easy to use your product is. People's recollection and subjective experience of ease-of-use is simply very unreliable. The only way to find out is to give them tasks to perform with your product (idea) and observe how they do. In other words: conduct some usability tests. Flashiness may increase initial sales, but ease-of-use increases loyalty.

There are a couple of things that really matter:

1. The product/service must be of high quality.
2. The price for said product/service must not be more than what is considered fair.
3. Willful honesty is always the best policy; in other words, don't lie to us, ever.

When a company can't comply with any of the three things above, they lose my business. I don't care if the price is free, if the company lies to me, I won't get it.

I think lots of people still feel this way.

@CaptainSemantics:

@DrGirlfriend: But Costco is the only example ever brought up. And frankly, the perception is more important than the reality. Some companies, no matter what, can do no right, others convince people they do no wrong.

The problem is knowing which is which, and understanding that just because company W is hated for something, doesn't mean that companies S, T, or G don't do it also.

#6. We like to buy, but we hate "being sold to."

Being somewhat involved in the marketing field myself, I can tell you that #1 is going to fall on deaf ears. And not wrongly so.

I have come to learn that you actually CAN polish a turd. You actually can make money (LOTS of money) by going this route. Many marketing experts will even tell you that in many situations marketing can be more important than the product itself! This is a fact that cannot be ignored.

I realize many customers do not want to hear this. However, from a business money-making standpoint, downplaying marketing while hoping that an amazing product will "sell itself" is very poor advice.

Try rewording #1 to take this fact into consideration:

For the long-term success of a product, it is important to remember not to forgo product enhancement and development in favor of increased marketing. Without a solid product, eventually sales will decline. There must be a proper balance struck between the two.

Also, realize that consumerist readers are not the typical consumers. Many people on this site are very intelligent and do not fall into the majority money-making demographic that many industries target.

so wait you're admitting your customers are possibly intelligent now?

*claps*

good for you for figuring that one out finally.

I have to agree with several people that made this point: marketing folks don't have much control over whether a company ignores customer feedback; this means that, practically, they simply don't care about this issue. If you were talking VPs of Customer Service, that'd be a different issue.

So, maybe refocus that point towards your actual audience.

As a subset of truth, I would forever cut the line "Your call is important to us" while keep the customer waiting because you don't want to adequately staff the support center, and also cut the apologies if what has happened is due to standard company policy. Nothing is worse than some poor Indian in Bangalore trying to apologize for overpaid marketing fat cats in the USofA.

On your list I would add, "Don't ever assume you or your company are smarter than the customer." I have a high IQ and high education, and I can spot the phonies with a few sentences. Sometimes it is amusing, mostly it is frustrating to have my time wasted.

You shouldn't waste your time with point #1. Most businesses in America do not produce products, they produce marketing campaigns. Their horizontally-integrated business models focus entirely on marketing and branding rather than production. Point #1 is a direct challenge to that purpose and will immediately make the dialog confrontational.

not bad - i agree with everything but #1. you bring up an excellent point, but let's look at the reverse to that equation: you can have the best product in the world, but if no one knows it exists, what do you have? the worst possible thing someone could say about your business is that it's "the best kept secret in ..." if you really do have a quality product, you need to pump it. ideally, your customers should serve as your spokespeople, but they should never be able to find someone who's not your customer.

I have to argue with 'You Can't Polish A Turd'.
The Video Gaming Industry proves again and again to be an exception to that rule.

Of course, so does Microsoft and Apple.

I was going to remark that, if you tell a roomful of marketing guys that you can't polish a turd, a full 90% of them are going to be thinking to themselves "dude hasn't seen how shiny *my* turds are". Then flameboy came in and demonstrated the point.

I think the point about marketing is a good one. It's not that you shouldn't engage in marketing or advertising to let people know that they should buy your product. It's that you shouldn't try to fool them into thinking your product is something it isn't.

igj: you're wrong. at successful companies, marketing is in charge of hearing and responding to customer feedback.

sodunum: i have to get more sleep. I read that as "nurse flipping." LOL

maybe under #4 something could be said about how consumers are getting more and more frustrated with telephone customer service--impossible to get a human, hard to understand, outsourced customer service jobs, customer service reps that have no idea how to help you or who seem agitated that you exist. This frustration is really affecting their customer service and, in turn, their business, and it's time they start realizing it or better yet DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

Good luck!

@CaptainSemantics: No, no, no, you did have a good point. I don't get many complaints at my job, but most of them have something to do with the way employees are treated. I'm not exaggerating! (It's a bit of a unique situation.)

I think it's a turn off for customers to see stressed, overworked employees. When I go out to eat, for example, I want to relax. I can not relax in an understaffed eatery full of visibly shaken employees. After seeing that a few times, I don't go back to the restaurant ever again.

Your customers aren't listening to you. They're talking to each other, and your disgruntled employees, online.

Well obviously this needs to stop. Permanently.

@YourTechSupport: Oh definitely, I cannot count the number of times a game promises this and that and does not deliver on either and then it becomes a very lame product since it does not live up to its expectations. A video game can also sell extremely well if its marketed to the correct audience even if it IS a turd and has no gameplay (ET for the atari 2600 anyone?). People will buy anything thats based on a popular license. I can even argue that very few video games live up to their expectations or at least live up to the expectations I perceive them to have as they get released (which is why I always wait for objective reviews to come out and I read many, or wait for price drops so that I don't pay too much for a potentially disappointing experience). If anything I have come to expect disappointment out of the video game industry as there are very few cases in my eyes of a video game actually living up to its expectations.

Don't even get me started on the disappointment of game consoles, I have become extremely cynical of consoles because most do not do everything they say they will do right out of the box, or features aren't ready in time but are "promised" and most of the time those promised features never actually come.

@YourTechSupport: I'm not sure either Microsoft or Apple relies on turd polishing. Granted, they're both marketing savvy-companies with huge ad budgets, but it's not emperor's new clothes either. Microsoft has its economy of scale thing, and Apple makes products that people really, really like.

@Major-General: Well, if you're looking for more examples, how about Trader Joe's?

I don't think consumers care about the well being of employees, per se. But employees who are treated well treat customers better, and some consumers are smart enough to see the connection.

@jlayman920:

Honestly, I don't mind foreign call center employees using Anglo-sounding names when they answer the phones.

I'd rather be given the name "Joe" from a man who is clearly not than have to try to bother remembering a name I can't even pronounce. A guy I work with started going by the name "Ollie" because no one could pronounce his name. Both his first name and last name are no less than 16 letters each.

As a former marketing minion and frustrated consumer here's my advice.

Quit freaking trying to market to me at the cash register! Please stop forcing your employees to pitch thing to me at the register. Examples that come to mind are credit cards, marketing programs, more credit cards, giving out my phone number, oh and more credit cards. The same goes for forced pitches when people answer the phone or attempt to take a food order. For the love of god knock it off. As a consumer these sales attempts insult and really annoy me. I feel bad for being forced to witness the humiliating stupid human tricks you force your employees to do in front of me. I also hate having my time wasted and my transaction held hostage while I am forced to witness a live commercial.
I have money and I want to give it to you, stop making it so hard. This tactic makes buying things a NEGATIVE experience.

People are not as stupid as you think they are. Well quite a few of the population are not. The blatant lies about products and services in many cases are really transparent. Someone trying to BS me about what I am buying is a non-starter. This goes double for anything that has a contract or long term commitment.

The first point about make something decent. Please?
I can't count how many times I went to the mall with a fist full of cash and intentions of buying certain things only to leave without buying a thing. Quality is lacking, sizing inconsistent and offerings suck.

Ask them for a show of hands:

Do you frequently use the product(s) you market? Ever?

Have you visited the production line where your product is made; In the last year? Ever?

Would you worry if your children worked there?

Don't think consumers are stupid when you shrink the size of packages and perhaps increase the price.

When was the last time you saw a traditional quart of spaghetti sauce? Now it is 30, no-28, no-26 ounces.

Why has the core of a roll of toilet paper become larger? And why is "standard" roll so small and the "double" roll what we used to get?

The weight of a box of cereal is shrinking yet the volume of the box remains the same. I read somewhere the cost of the wheat/corn/oats in a box of cerial is less than $.25 and that marketing is the single largest expense.

On another track, do you really think I give a rat's ass about some compensated celebrity endorsement? Pu-lease! Michael Jordan's compensation for "Air Jordans" is probably higher than the unit manufacturing cost of the stupid, overpriced footwear.

Don't get me going on bottled water or the 'prestige' of an AMEX card.

@CaptainSemantics: I see you've already embraced rule #5...

"You don't need marketing, you need better products."

This is a part truth, imo. While a company may produce the best possible version of something, or a pretty good version with amazing innovation in usability/inclusion design, say, the benefits may not be immediately apparent to the layperson.

We often forget that not everyone shares our fascination with things, and that most people probably don't read so much about the things they buy. Most people probably base their choices on perceived popular opinion, or just on whatever is thrown at them the most often through advertisement.

In such a case, advertising is extremely useful to highlight why a product could be a good solution to a particular person's need.

"Ignore customer feedback and complaints at your peril."

I may be a bit off-topic with this next bit, but that statement reminded me of the TED talk Malcolm Gladwell gave about why we have as many different varieties of things as we do; tomato sauce in particular.

The basic gist is that people don't know what they want. If you ask them what they want, they'll probably regurgitate a line from a commercial, and without realizing it, betray their secret wants they may not even be aware of. It turns out there aren't any perfect tomato sauces; only tomato sauces. To each his own.

What does this mean?

Basically, it's up to companies to shut up about making the BEST of something. Not everyone loves a BMW. Not everyone loves Maxwell House. There are different kinds of cars and coffee because there are people out there who'd prefer to drive a Pontiac Hemorrhoid over a 325i, or people who prefer Maxwell House to good coffee.

[tedblog.typepad.com]

@bohemian:
"... As a consumer these sales attempts insult and really annoy me."
They annoy me too, but you have to examine the possibility that these methods might WORK. If telling the cashier to push a company credit card increases revenue then then its hard to argue against it, unless it pisses off people more than it helps.

You're arguing that it is more annoying than helpful, but you have no real basis for that argument other than your personal feelings.

"People are not as stupid as you think they are."
Sadly, I think people (in general) are more stupid than you think they are. An "intelligent" advertisement should describe the product and its qualities and benefits in a clear, concise, and reasonable way. If you look at commercials, you will see most of them don't even attempt to target the logical consumer. Rather, they use propaganda techniques to brainwash viewers. Why? It's because most people don't think.

People don't analyze what they see and hear like they should, thats why the marketing industry works the way it does.

Saying "less marketing, better products" contradicts what many years of advertising and marketing has proven to be true: people will buy anything.

If you were to ask people on the street to quickly name an artificially-flavored, fruity, powdered drink, how many would say "Flavor Ade"? Do you think Kool-Aid is better known because it tastes that much better?

If you start your talk by tell the audience that marketing doesn't matter, you will lose them. Because that assertion is patently untrue.

@spamhead:
"...then flameboy came in and demonstrated the point."

Well played.