Reader Adam forwarded us this bizarre email from Patrick Byrne, CEO of Overstock.com.
After announcing deals on watches and exercise equipment, the email invites readers “Take 5 with Patrick, ” which involves the CEO likening Wikipedia to mind-control and Wall Street corruption. Apparently the feud between Wikipedia and Overstock goes way back. Back in late 2006, someone from Overstock edited the company’s Wikipedia page to read like an advertisement. This was reverted by one of the site’s editors. Over the next few months, Overstock’s “director of social media,” Judd Bagley, used dozens of Wikipedia identities to revert Overstock’s entry and harass editors. Overstock also began a site called antisocialmedia.net, run by Bagley. Fed up, Wikipedia banned all Overstock. IP addresses from editing Wikipedia pages. Since then, Byrne has used his “Take 5 with Patrick” postings to disseminate articles such as “Social Media – Hijacking the Discourse,” “How to Handle a Corrupt Reporter,” “A Small Thing Called, the First Amendment,” and “Our Corrupt Federal Regulator the SEC.”
Take 5 with Patrick
Forbes journalist Gary Weiss’s posts about Overstock
![([F]oxymoron)](http://consumermediallc.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/powerup.jpg?w=100&h=100&crop=1)
@ExecutorElassus
Fun is pulling up matching results from both Wikipedia and Conservapedia side by side. It’s like sitting at a table with the Dali Lama and Rush Limbaugh.
@Buran: It was a joke….
I just want to add my two cents in.
I’m a college writing instructor. My policy on Wikipedia and other user-driven sites (blogs, wikis, etc.) is that citing common knowledge (admittedly a subjective judgment) from a wiki is fine, but controversial or putative references need to be backed up with academically-reviewed sources.
@rfjason: rfjason! You wouldn’t happen to be THE rfjason, the racist troll, would you? Aw man, I didn’t know you were here, too.
If you’re not him, I’d look into getting a different screenname.
Editing is an article to read like an advertisement deserves a ban. Overstock’s actions are uncalled for.
@TechnoDestructo: True, I usually put “well cited” in front of my statements about Wiki articles. But most of the time, if I’m using Wiki I’m looking up pop culture stuff (last night I looked up the documentary Spellbound and I believe most of the info in the article came from the DVD special features).
I mostly go through and clean up really terrible movie summaries myself. Sometimes if I’m very bored I’ll fix tense shift problems, but it’s been ages since I’ve bothered to edit anything. I mostly go there to get links and places to start looking for more info.
@TechnoDestructo: Or another wacko in the asylum like Ann Coulter or Charles Manson. Here’s an example of how that site presents “facts” without bias:
Definition of “Conservative”:
[www.conservapedia.com]
Definition of “Liberal”:
[www.conservapedia.com]
(enjoy the helpful illustration if words are too challenging for you to comprehend):
[www.conservapedia.com]
…at least we know the reference source Fox “News” turns to for their “fair and balanced” reporting.
I’ve heard William Buckley present his views and he seemed quite intelligent in his debates – certainly not so absolutely ridiculous and base as the current idiots running the conservative movement. Maybe the inbreeding amongst the upper classes has finally overcome it’s ability to purchase coherent shills.
@strangeffect: Huh? Perhaps you mean that they are “stocking shorts” or they “stock short stockings” or…? Are you a speculator?
@ExecutorElassus:My first suggestion is that you get clear on the definitions of “malware” and “cyberstalking”. Once you realize that neither term comes close to applying in this case, we can move on to the larger, real issues.
Neither of these entities are exactly what they say there are … did someone expect otherwise? At least Overstock advertises on cable and network television so we can know up front that they’re full of shit. At the same time, I’ve found Wikipedia to be about as open to editing by the general public as any of the 30 volumes of the World Book that were in my jr. high library; maybe that’s the way it has to be, but that’s not what they call it …
A bit of digression here, but even without knowing who to root for in this pissing contest, I ‘m curious. I have happily bought from Overstock.com on occassion in the past and recently poked around the site – when did they start with the retail-*plus* (prevailing, not MSRP) “discounting”? It’s boggling, but then my local Tuesday Morning is more ludicrously overpriced smash-and-dent than bargain these days as well…and no, that’s comparing to Amazon, fatwallet or slickdeal finds, not to pre-inflation memories.
I love the people that try editing Wiki articles in violation of their (fair and legitimate) rules, then whine about how “closed” or “dishonest” Wiki is.
I’ve had no problems contributing to Wiki articles. Was there give and take? Sure. Was there teeth-gnashing on my part due to having to cite sources for facts that “everyone knows”? Absolutely. And a better work product resulted.
Welcome to collaboration, people. And, adulthood. Get over it.
Amen, Trai. Most of the people who complain about Wikipedia being closed or dishonest are folks who were surprised to learn they weren’t allowed to write ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING THEY WANTED, and somehow take this to mean Wikipedia’s mission of openness is a sham.
That, and crackpots who want Wikipedia to reflect that their great-great grandfather, personally, started the Civil War.
@dweebster: [en.wikipedia.org]
Whatever problems Wikipedia has or doesn’t have, this letter makes Overstock’s CEO look like a ranting loony.
Try this stuff on Wikipedia and tell us how wrong they are: Skip Lists, AVL Tree, Hash table, Objective-C.
OK, now try Gibson Les Paul, Stratocaster, and Steve Miller (musician).
That’s all good stuff. You going to find any of that in the Encyclopedia Brittanica? No, you’re not, or not in time for it to be of any use to you. How electric motors work, last edited in the 1950s? Sure.
I’m not saying bet your life on the accuracy of the WP, but a lot it’s going to have stuff on the stuff you’re looking for and, on the whole, it’s going to be pretty good.
@Meiran:
I’m not sure what makes Wikipedia a less valuable resource than any other encyclopedia. They’re all collaborations of people’s knowledge. Wikipedia has the advantage of anyone on the planet editing the source, including the people involved. Traditionals don’t. Whether or not the people presenting the material are not getting the facts straight on a given subject is another story, but affects both Wikipedia and traditional media in the same way.
@trujunglist — You may be correct about more contemporary/current events. That being said, do you understand that the typical wikipedia “editor” is either a 16 year old high school student or a 20-something social misfit (with many still living in their parents’ basements). At one point one of these so-called editors successfully won an edit war about dinosaurs against a world class paleontologist because the adult got tired of arguing that just because it wasn’t that way in Jurrasic Park doesn’t mean it isn’t correct. (and by the way, I agree that the CEO of Overstock does come off like a lunatic)
This week on Overstock:
Bulk tinfoil hat shaping kit! Now you can make all your favorites like “The Stetson”, “The Bowler” and “The Tophat”!
It’s all about the O!
Patrick Byrne heavily financed a campaign against a citizen referendum in Utah that would repeal a Law creating a school voucher program.
He showed up in the local papers, after the referendum was passed, voiding the law by a large majority of Utah voters, and called the voters in the majority idiots.
Patrick Byrne is a right-wing ideologue with a persecution complex.
Yeah, but it’s still pretty shady to do what you did, WriterJudd.
Trai_Dep: Hey, wikipedia’s great for a lot of things, but it’s also true that for some issues, there are people with way too much time on their hands who make the article on their issue unreliable.
But, hey, everyone should learn to mistrust authority, and if wikipedia helps people along that path, good for them.