Reader Glenn was traveling to Thailand with a group of friends. Glenn and another member of the group have issues with Sleep Apnea, a potentially life threatening disorder where sufferers stop breathing in their sleep. Fortunately, a simple medical device called a C-Pap machine can be used during sleep to correct the problem. So Glenn, being the informed responsible consumer he is, contacted the airline the group was booked on, United, to make sure that he’d be able to use his C-Pap machine during the god-awfully long trip from Boston to Thailand. United said, sure, no problem, they’d be able to get him an outlet for his machine. Then, they canceled his booking. Without telling him. But wait! It gets worse!
Hi,
A friend of mine told me I should log a complaint on this website against United Airlines. I was part of a group of 9 people traveling from Boston to Thailand on Dec 20th 2007. There were 2 of us who required an electrical outlet to supply power for C-Pap machines due to Sleep Apnea disabilities. We checked with United Airlines almost 2 months prior to the trip, to make sure they could accommodate us. They assured us it would be no problem. That’s where the trouble began.On the day I called (October 23, 2007) United “medical dept”. They said they would contact me to confirm but that is should be fine. After not hearing from them….I called back on November 20th and found out my reservation had been cancelled and the flights were “full”. United told me my travel agent had cancelled the reservation but that was not the case. After 2-3 hours on the phone they discovered it had been cancelled by the original reservationist I spoke to on 10/23/2007. Finally they “made room” for me on the flights and supposedly we were back on track. We received calls from United a week prior to the flight saying that our electrical outlets would be available for us.
Boston to DC flight was uneventful. We boarded the plane in DC that was going to Tokyo (14 hour flight) on 12/20 around noon I think. After I was seated I couldn’t find an outlet so I called the flight attendant to show me where it was. She had no idea what I was talking about. She called a supervisor who couldn’t help me either. They moved my seat up to business class I believe and still there was no plug there. I was asked if I could fly without using the machine. I said yes but I would not be able to sleep. Then United did what I thought was unimaginable. Because they had failed comply with our request they removed my bags and my friend Mike’s bags from the plane and forced us off the flight. They separated us from our traveling group and would not even look into putting us on another flight the same day. The plane the next day had only one working outlet. They talked about having one of us stay behind again. We convinced them to let us fly and we would share the outlet.
They violated not only their own policy to accommodate medical issues with a 48 hour notice but also the Air Travel Access Act in not meeting our medical needs appropriately. An 8 page letter was responded to with a $125 coupon for each of us. We lost the cost of our hotel in Bangkok, our first day of the tour, and had to pay additional transportation costs to get to the hotel not covered by the tour because we arrived late. Sorry for all the info in such a small space. Please let me know if your website can help us. We feel at the very least we should be offered a roundtrip ticket within the U.S. We paid over $1,300 for each ticket originally. Thanks
Glenn
Last I checked, $125 won’t get you coast to coast one way in this country. How insulting. I think it’s time to write to someone higher up, like Graham Atkinson, United Airlines Executive Vice President and Chief Customer Officer. Also, since they screwed up your trip because of their inability to make simple accommodations for your medical condition, despite ample warning and your compliance with their own policies, how ’bout writing to the Department of Transportation? Oh look, they have a section called”Complaints Alleging Discriminatory Treatment Against Disabled Travelers!” Refusing to accommodate for life saving medical equipment, that’s discriminatory, right?
(photo: myrespiratorysupply.com)
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@ironchef: You seem to be missing the point that:
A. He called them almost 2 months in advance (their policy asks for at least 48 hours in advance) for accommodation for a MEDICAL DEVICE. They have a policy that specifically deals with medical device and a process for it. They didn’t follow it and instead dropped his initial reservation – if for some reason they can’t accommodate him, they’re medical dept is supposed contact him and discuss alternate options.
B. After resolving that issue, United called a week before hand and said they’d have outlets. The plane didn’t, he said he could probably tough it out – they booted him off. He got a flight they next day and so on.
United’s process is supposed to evaluate the need, instead their reservations were canceled. They made a promise which wasn’t upheld and kicked off a guy who said he could deal with it and caused him to incurs expenses for being late.
If they had taken the flight, not had an outlet, fallen asleep and, God forbid, died, the airline would have had their asses sued off.
Can you blame then for not allowing them to fly?!
And it sounds like they were accommodated during their unanticipated stopover… They’re not asking for reimbursement for the hotel, or their meals, in DC, so that makes me think that UA paid for all of that.
And, I imagine (from reading their email), they were put in business class seats for the flight from DC to Tokyo. Do you have any idea how much business class costs? And for a routing like that? Again, try tens of thousands of dollars. UA did not have to do that– they would have been perfectly within their right to cancel their tickets, refund their money, and tell them that they were not equipped to transport them.
But they didn’t. They accommodated them on the next available flight that had an outlet, in a higher (MUCH higher!) class of service than what they paid for.
That doesn’t excuse the misunderstanding and confusion, however. I do believe the passengers are entitled to some reimbursement for missing the first day of their trip, etc…
But didn’t they purchase travel insurance? I can’t imagine traveling to third world countries with a life threatening condition and NOT purchasing travel insurance– if only to cover the cost of replacing the all-important life saving device should it get lost, stolen, or broken on the trip. And travel insurance would have covered any and all additional incurred expenses.
UA should, as a gesture of good faith, make good by these passengers by reimbursing them (in cash, not UA vouchers) for the additional expenses incurred. But are they deserving of a free ticket? Heck no.
Shoot, I’d take a one day unexpected layover and missing the first day of my tour for a business class upgrade on a 14 hour flight ANY day.
@sibertater: @satoru: He contacted them before hand, which part of that don’t you understand?
@ironchef: Wow you really can’t read can you.
@sibertater: I’m a heartless bitch.
Yes you are.
It wasn’t just a miscommunication, it was a total failure to begin to adhere to their medical device policy. Had it been followed and lets say that they could not accommodate the passenger’s medical needs in Coach. United’s Medical Dept. is supposed to contact the travelers and discuss their options, this would have been almost 2 months before hand – arguably ample time to resolve it somehow, either on another flight or class that could fulfill that need.
The rest of what happened followed because of it. Moreover United tried to rectify it and made a promise they couldn’t keep, that the outlet would be there. I understand your point of liability, but my point is that the passenger did what was required of him to try and get information on how to make this work and United dropped the ball over and over.
@dorkins: BEAUTIFUL
@dorkins: Mine is. My dad’s is. My little brother’s was until he had surgery.
@ironchef: So here’s what you must be thinking…
Problem: Glenn’s telling of the story doesn’t fit my conviction.
Solution: Make shit up! Tell him he’s too fat; put the words “life-threatening” into his mouth; reframe the story and accuse of him “turning down” the seating; proclaim that it’s just “sloppy customer relations” on United’s part. Fill in the other holes with totally fabricated info as needed. Eureka!
@dorkins: Key word: “originally”. The cold war ended 17 years ago. It’s time to update the list of third-world countries.
@Mariallena: A direct flight from BOS to BKK lasts from 24-31 hours according to flights listed on kayak.com. So if you were confined to a seat in a boring environment that will probably be switched over to “night” mode at point, for over 14 hours, after already have been flying and prior to some more flying, and were told “if you fall asleep, you might die”, would you consider that a potentially dangerous situation? Or at least one that you would refuse to enter?
I love beating up on submitters as much as the next guy, but this guy had a genuine medical condition, made arrangements with United 2 months in advance, and then got insufficiently compensated when they messed it all up and destroyed his travel plans. Pretty cut and dried, they owe him a little more than brush-off compensation.
@I Ain’t Tryin’ a Hear Dat!: Oooh, your two posts make beautiful sense, which is a rare feat 200 posts into the Consumerist game. It seems well-informed. A spot check at United’s airplanes on Seat Guru supports that none of them have power in coach (except the domestic premium service 757-200). You made a cogent case about what Glenn probably received (convincing arguing why it was more than he was entitled to), and what he should receive on account of the miscommunication.
Keep up the good work.
@Michael Belisle: Sorry about the grammatical mistakes. It is 211 posts into the game, after all…
I just find it interesting that out of a party of nine people travelling together, two of them suffered from sleep apnea and needed the machines. A statistical anomaly or is that representative of the population in general?
I’ve done a lot of redeye flights and I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone using one of those machines on a plane.
@22rifle: I’m sorry to hear that. You and your dad, I mean.
I’m glad to hear that. You brother, I mean.
@Michael Belisle: Yes. But I’m living in the past.
tell that to all the preemies and infants that use cpap, never seen a single one that was fat@sibertater:
We actually have at least 12 people at my work alone that use them (those are the ones I know of)and our office has about 100 people, so statistically it could be possible. It’s also possible that one of them heard about the benefits of cpap from the other and that’s why he had it. I don’t think that’s really what the article is about though. The guy did everything within his power to ensure they could provide what he needed, and they screwed up. Honestly I never knew it was an option to actually use my cpap on an airplane, I just stay awake. However I’ve never flown more than 5 hours because that’s about how long I can take being confined in a plane, and I really don’t like traveling.@scoosdad:
@Michael Belisle: Thank you! I knew that somewhere my years of traveling and travel-related jobs would come in handy. I could write one of the Consumerist’s “TALES OF A (insert occupation here)” pieces about the airline industry– I’m a total airline junkie. Plus I’m a travel agent. Plus I used to work for an airline. (A major, but not legacy, carrier.)
@dorkins: Ah ha, but even Wikipedia has updated since your source pulled its definition out of it. But the map is still living in the Cold War era. Oh well. Can’t win them all.
@scoosdad: Some people have friends. And sometimes-I don’t know how widespread this is-friends even have things in common.
[www.apneaguide.com]
Statics:
“Estimates are that between twelve and twenty million Americans suffer from sleep apnea to some degree.”
“Sleep apnea is not age specific – it can affect anyone from childhood through to old age. Men and women can both develop sleep apnea, but it more common to men – particularly middle-age men who are also overweight.”
“Looking closer at the breakdown by gender, 24% of men suffer from sleep apnea of some form while only 9% of women do.”
“Obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) is the most common of all sleep disorders, not just sleep apnea. Estimates are that 50% of those who suffer from sleep apnea also have a snoring problem. According to the National Commission on Sleep Disorders Research, roughly 38,000 cardiovascular deaths annually are in some way related to sleep apnea. The links include high blood pressure, hypertension and stroke.”
“Approximately 6 million Americans suffer from moderate to severe sleep apnea – sometimes requiring a late-night emergency room visit.”
It wouldn’t be the Consumerist if some f*(kwit didn’t blame the consumer within the first 5 posts.
Persons with obstructive sleep apnea do quit breathing when they sleep, anywhere from 6-100 plus times per hour, for at least ten seconds (or it doesn’t count). When these apneas occur the patient does not get deep restful sleep (yes, you can argue there is no restful sleep on an airplane at any time!).
A CPAP machine blows air under pressure through tubing to a mask over the nose. This airflow acts as an air “splint” that keeps floppy tissue in the airway from collapsing, allowing the patient to breathe more normally. There are two or three machines that come with battery packs, but very few. Whether the airline would allow the batteries to be used is also an issue. Most airlines don’t want to accommodate a CPAP machine for anyone, because they feel they make too much noise and disturb other passengers, plus they do not have many seats with electrical outlets to handle a CPAP machine and don’t always want electrical gadgets being used. The airlines would prefer not to bother.
The airline screwed up here and messed up the travel plans royally and some compensation is probably deserved, just as if the reservation was messed up for some other reason.
Sleep apnea can be life threatening. I have severe apnea and stop breathing 82 times per hour. When I sleep without the machine I snore like crazy. Personally, whenever I fly all night, I just plan to be upright and cat nap because sitting up does make the apnea less of an issue, but I will try to stay awake because there is a risk of a cardiac issue. Reggie White, the ex-NFL player died in his sleep and his wife admits he was not using a CPAP that night. I’ve heard from the mom of a 19 year old whose son died when he slept without his machine after having a few drinks (which made his apnea worse); she was upset because they had not been told that the apnea could be made worse by drinking (it relaxes the tissue in the upper airway).
Please stop complaining about the guy’s apnea. It is a serious medical condition that can be life threatening when it is not treated. It is not like turning a pacemaker off that might cause sudden death, but there can be a substantial risk if a patient sleeps without treatment. That’s why he said he would not be able to sleep if he couldn’t use the machine. That’s very logical.
By the way the TSA does consider CPAP machines as assistive medical devices and they can be carried on as luggage without counting against the carry-on limits.
Dave Hargett
Chairman, American Sleep Apnea Association
I think we all learned something important today. You see, we all -
Scwew you guys, I’m going home!
Wow. You know, somehow I’m not surprised at the assholeish nature of some of the replies here. I think this guy is completely justified.
Sleep Apnea can be a potentially fatal disease, depending on the severity. His *flight* alone was at least 14 hours (the one from DC to Tokyo), not counting layovers, and the trips from Boston to DC and from DC to Thailand. So the flight is ~20 hours, add in layover time, travel time from the house to the first airport, the hour and a half you spend checking and rechecking that you have everything you need packed, travel time from the last airport to the hotel you’re staying at… You’re looking at a trip that is over 26 hours long. So for all of you that are saying he just shouldn’t sleep… what on earth are you talking about? What else are you going to do a) when your entire trip is costing you more than 20 hours, and b) when one leg of that trip is a 14 hour flight in and of itself?
The amount of ignorance and the lack of common sense in the responses here is amazing.
@sibertater: Uh, wrong? Being fat CAN cause sleep apnea, but it’s by no means the ONLY cause. My uncle, who weighs 150 lbs soaking wet with a brick in his shorts, had a severe case until he had surgery a few years ago. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see a reference to the guy’s weight anywhere in the story. Are you just assuming?
I have sleep apnea, refuse to wear the mask because it annoys me. I have been doing that for about 3 years now, turns out I am still alive.
Sleep apnea is a life threatening condition where breathing is obstructed many times throughout the night leading to cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, stroke, diabetes and even ED.
While CPAP and surgery are options to treat Sleep Apnea, dentistry has an almost equally effective option that few know about. An oral appliance that positions the lower jaw in a forward position can alleviate the problems associated with sleep apnea and requires no electrical connection. As a matter of fact, the military is now requiring oral appliances for troops with sleep apnea being deployed to Iraq. Research has proven the efficacy of these appliances.
Only about 1000 dentists in the United States are qualified to provide oral appliance therapy and it is imperative to find a dentist who has received special training.
For more information, visit Quietsleep.com or drop me an email at libarsh@quietsleep.com. We are also in process of building a network of qualified dentists at snoringisntsexy.com.
Dr. Barsh
@coold8: Good for you. But there are more critical cases, like one of my aunts. She needs the machine when she sleeps or else she dies.
I’m witht he consumer and think you should get more. But the complaint of
‘and had to pay additional transportation costs to get to the hotel not covered by the tour because we arrived late.”
= complaining about $10. Bangkok = amazingly cheap taxis
@coold8: We aren’t all as dumb as you.
I suffer from sleep apnea and use a C-pap machine to sleep at night. Without it I “die” for short periods of time ever night where i stop breathing and my heart stops till i wake up and everything restarts. any of these times could be fatal. And while yes i could stay awake for a 14 hour flight i would be pretty pissed too that they had said they would have acomidated me only to kick me from my flight. $125 is inexcusable for this kind of treatment.
Wow. I am so amazed at how stupid some of you are, really amazed. The beauty of the internet is being able to say what you want, the drawback is that you don’t feel like a complete asshole when you say something that is blatantly wrong. Sleep apnea comes in several forms, some mild, some severe. Yes it can be life threatening, Yes you can stop breathing, Yes it brings your blood oxygen down to a dangerous level, and Yes you people who spout off about things you know nothing about are complete idiots. I run into people like you everyday, stupidity is a disease, and just like sleep apnea, many people have it and don’t know they do. If you’re going to run your mouth, do some research.
The airlines suck, consistently, the times they have screwed me over far out number the times I felt like I got a great deal and excellent service. The fares are over priced, the terms are ridiculous, and the employees are condescending and rude.
Please…..I had to quit using my CPAP because it was too uncomfortable, too cumbersome and too noisy. I had better luck sleeping without it and do so. Oh, by the way, sleep apnea effects anyone, not just overweight people. I am 5’9″ and weigh 145. So….in short, if anyone needs a slightly used, 8 year old Respironics CPAP, let me know. It also includes a inline humidifier.
I couldn’t use the mask at all, I got the nose pillow kind which is better, when I can afford it I’m getting the canulas because I think they would be more comfortable. I woudln’t give up just because the mask sucks. yes, you obviously are still alive, however maybe your’s isn’t that severe.@coold8:
Wow some of the people posting here are true jackasses. To the guy who “cured” his sleep apnea – Good for you! You do realize it’s not always curable, even by surgery, right? Some people will always require a CPAP, regardless of what other steps they take.
And yes, this qualifies as a disability. If the guy can’t sleep for 14 hours, then has an additional several hours of traveling after he gets to Tokyo on a regional jet which is guaranteed to have no outlets, that means it becomes he needs to stay awake because HIS LIFE MIGHT DEPEND ON IT. United is the screw up here, given that he notified them well in advance, and they failed to accommodate his needs.
I agree with the decision to pull them off the plane without the outlet, but not with the compensation offered. At the least, United should compensate them for the portion of the trip they missed (whatever the hotel, travel etc they missed is worth) plus a free roundtrip US continental ticket. Alternately, they should go ahead and give them each a free first class ticket to anywhere in the world.
I am, Glenn, the author of this complaint to consumerist.com. My letter was addressed to Glenn Tilton, CEO of United, though I’m assuming he never saw it since I received a letter back from Leetika Kalra in Customer Relations. It appears to be a form letter going on about how their “maintenance division had recently completed an audit of each fleet and taken inventory of problems.” “We will be identifying and repairing seats, carpets, galley equipment, lights and audio and video equipment.” This was not a “MAINTENANCE” issue. This was United’s failure to comply with their own policy and the Air Travel Access Act as they relate to accommodating passengers with a medical condition/disability. I wonder if she even read my letter fully or understood what my complaint was about.
I appreciate all the comments posted, good and bad, because it demonstrates that many people are simply not informed of the dangers of untreated Sleep Apnea nor the fact that it affects both average sized and overweight people. I have used a C-Pap machine for many years now and NEVER sleep without using it, not even for a nap. My sister-in-law died Feb 18, 2001 from sleep apnea at the age of 51 years old because she fell asleep without her machine. Sleep Apnea affects people of all shapes, sizes, ethnic backgrounds, or gender to insinuate otherwise is childish and ignorant. In addition, I’d like to say that on the return flight from Bangkok to Tokyo there WAS and outlet provided in in COACH and it was a simple matter of plugging in an adapter under my seat. I’m not sure why these outlets are not more readily available. Nothing will replace what my friend and I missed on that first day of our vacation that had been in planning for over 2 years…but what United offered is insufficient and insulting considering what we went through. Thanks for all your comments! Glenn.
I know some of you don’t understand his conditions and assumed that he is out to get a big check. Imagine this, you go to a restaurant, the food you ordered arrived late and was over cooked. Would you not sent it back and expect them to cook you another meal and/or at least comp your meal? Pretty much the same principle. Plus, if you are not there to see it actually happen, you wouldn’t understand.
I happened to be on that same flight. Not only the security guys were rude to him, but the flight attendant were walking around saying to people “The Fat Guy can’t Breathe that’s why the flight was delayed”. Was there a need to say that to anyone? No. He doesn’t even mentioned that. No one deserved to be treated like that.
The trip was planned way in advance and UA should have been able to accommodate him as promised. $125 voucher is an INSULT. When UA overbooked the flight, they give people hotel and cash all the time… at least they can give him a round trip ticket.
@coold8: “turns out I am still alive”
Oh? Don’t be too sure! You may not be!
@cpraser: They said “The fat guy can’t breathe”? Oh, come on now.
Actually in your restaurant scenario I wouldn’t have a huge fit about the food (unless it were actually burned and/or contaminated and/or moldy). I’d just figure it was a bad restaurant and wouldn’t go there any more, and would tell everybody I knew how bad it was. But I’m not the type of diner who sends food back unless it’s likely to make me sick. Maybe that’s the difference between us.
Obstructive sleep apnea is caused by a blockage of the airway, usually when the soft tissue in the rear of the throat collapses and closes during sleep. Most people who have sleep apnea die from having accidents from falling asleep at the wheel or from cardiovascular disease (obesity is a common comorbidity in sleep apnea and cardiovascular disease.)
With sleep apnea you don’t get enough rest because when you stop breathing, your brain kicks in and wakes you up. It’s a big problem because people with the disorder can have their sleep interrupted scores of times in a single night.
A CPAP machine keeps the airway open, but think gravity here: It’s not a problem if you are sleeping upright as you would be on a plane, because sleeping in an upright position would keep the airway from being obstructed. It is extremely unlikely that someone with sleep apnea would be at risk from snoozing on a flight.
@csdiego:
I know I said the same thing… come on now. But unless you were right there to hear it yourself… you wouldn’t believe me.
Let me give you another example then, You bought a device, it said on the box it could do so and so. It does half it was promised, would you not take it back to the store and try to get your money back?
But in all seriousness, I think UA should at least NOT insult anyone with words or $125 check.
@cpraser: I guess I wouldn’t just trust the box to tell me about what the machine can do. If I were going to spend $1000 (about the cost of a flight to Thailand, right?) on a gadget that I relied on to keep me alive, I would do some research, and if the claims on the box seemed too good to be true, I’d think twice before making such an important investment.
I’m not trying to hate on someone who has an inconvenient medical condition. I just think this passenger was overconfident to think he’d be guaranteed to be able to use the CPAP all throughout his trip to Thailand and back. The fact is, life is a life-threatening condition. By planning the trip, he undertook some risk. I sympathize with his trouble and I might think less of United after this, but I don’t think a lawsuit is justified.
If Virgin America and Virgin Atlantic has outlets under every seat on their planes…
I had no idea OP had so many doctors that just happen to read consumerist.. I’m assuming they are all doctors since they seem to know his condition and everything about sleep apnea. Yes a lot of overweight people have sleep apnea,also a lot of people get overweight from having sleep apnea. That isn’t the only cause of it. My grandson at age 3 was finally diagnosed with sleep apnea when we constantly kept telling the doctor how he would quit breathing when he slept. We were finally able to get him a referral to an ENT and turns out his adnoids and tonsils are HUGE. Got them both removed, no more apnea. He was born with that, no outside factors were involved and for the record he was considered underweight. Short necks are genetic in my family so most of us have sleep apnea. I wonder if that’s why ancient societies appreciated long necks? was it so they wouldn’t have to listen to the person snoring?
@ClankBoomSteam:
No. I’m a healthcare representative for a huge insurance company and over 90% of the cases we approve CPAP for are overweight. OVER 90%.
Next?
@timsgm1418:
Yes, everyone has an “Aunt Edna” story, common psychological phenomenon. When was your 3 year old last in Thailand? How long was he on a CPAP machine?
That is all.
I’m so sick of people thinking they’re special because they’re fat. I’m almost 100 lbs over my BMI and I don’t ask for, nor do I expect special treatment. Jeebus.
@PirateSmurf: When that happens I just wake up. And frelling stay up.
@seth1066: I think they proposed upgrading him to biz, but as he wasn’t allowed on to fly, he probably never set foot on the plane. So he believes he was upgraded, but can’t confirm it, since in fact he never got on a plane.
Count me as a slim male with good abs, good diet, lots of exercise and severe obstructive sleep apnea. Someone posted that they had never met a slim person with sleep apnea. This is probably because doctors have bought the lie that only overweight people have sleep apnea.
I had seven doctors who missed my diagnosis because they thought only fat people had sleep apnea. Thanks to the internet I finally diagnosed myself and had a sleep study.
Without cpap I die soon – it might be the first night or it might be the 365th night, but it will kill me. Actually my doctors fear something worse – a crippling stroke.
I gave up a long career in international business because of a fear of the long flights. Twenty-two hours to India and trying to ensure that my cpap would work for the whole trip was too dangerous to continue.
As for comments about surgery, they are very out of date. The number of surgeries is going way down because they have such a poor track record.
BTW, I am not commenting on this guy’s case, just some of the postings by poorly informed people.
Did you know that untreated sleep apnea is the number one cause of heart disease? The number one cause of stroke? The number one cause of type II diabetes? Don’t feel so bad, most doctors don’t know this either.
@sibertater: So, you ARE just assuming that this guy is overweight. Over 90% doesn’t necessarily equal 100%, last time I checked.
Next?