This is round 3 in our Worst Company In America contest, Ticketmaster vs. Wachovia. Their crimes?
Ticketmaster’s inability to fix their system allows scalpers to buy up all the tickets for a concert within minutes, depriving fans of their chance to get a ticket for a fair price. On top of that, Ticketmaster routinely obtains sole vendor relationships with venues, so that even the initial ticket prices are inflated.
For their part, Wachovia profited in millions by allowing scammers to use stolen identities to drain money from customers’ accounts with unsigned checks, despite receiving thousands of warnings about the fraud.
Choose the greater of two evils.
This is a post in our Worst Company In America 2008 series. Keep track of all the goings on at consumerist.com/tag/worst-company-in-america/
STILL OPEN FOR VOTING: Facebook vs The American Arbitration Association, Comcast vs Menu Foods
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@AaronZ:
Unfortunately, it appears that you are not paying attention. Wachovia is assisting in defrauding the customers of OTHER banks. Pick a bank. Get a checking account. Thief gets your checking account number. Thief processes transaction THROUGH WACHOVIA taking money from your checking account. Wachovia is notified – and does nothing.
And if you think going to concerts is a priority – then you might want to consider growing up before posting on big people sites.
@johnva: Agreed…that was the problem I saw with the menu Foods vs Comcast matchup. “Worst company” doesn’t mean the same to everyone. And it’s not that it’s the poll’s fault, because with most polls comes a degree of sujectivity. But you start to see that disconnect in the comments.
I had to go with Ticketmaster here. Setting aside the fact that Wachovia has a very minimal presence in my area (we have a total of 8 locations in the state, none of them particularly near me – and I didn’t think we had any until I looked it up), if I’m not happy with my bank, I can pull my money out and go somewhere else. There’s plenty of choice. If I want to go to a concert (and don’t want to pay a scalper), I HAVE to get my tickets through Ticketmaster. I have to pay their fees. There’s no way to avoid it, other than not going to the concert at all.
I agree- this gimmick is hopelessly broken. Worse, the site is popular enough that certain patterns of “interesting” votes and comments now happen. Unless the astroturfing gets better the votes/comments are going to continue to head south. Especially seeing the flag comment thing is gone now. Hmm, how did that happen.
Till then, count on a cable company losing this (unless the hire the same “viral marketing/PR” firms, then watch out. . .)
I’ve been too many concerts. I’ve never once used Ticketmaster. Nor have I ever used Wachovia tho starrion brings up quite a good point.
@starrion: And if you think going to concerts is a priority – then you might want to consider growing up before posting on big people sites.
Which part of posting on the ‘big people sites’ is belittling other posters for not being mature? AaronZ obviously cares more about going to see his favorite band, lecturer, or event more than some bank doing little to stop fraud. He, like the majority of people on this site, have probably never been affected by Wachovia. He also, like the majority of people on this site, has probably been anally ravaged by Ticketmaster for the past 25 years. Does that make AaronZ less mature than you? No,it does not. Apathy and immaturity are two completely different things, but I’m sure someone as obviously learned and worldly as you already knows that.
I noticed that although ticketmaster uses PR to “assure” people that they are trying to prevent scalping, behind the scenes, they really seem to encourage it. Take, for example, their recent purchase of Getmein.com, a sort of Ebay for ticket scalpers. The scary thing is that Getmein’s tagline is “Tickets for true fans. Guaranteed.” Let’s just hope they never bring the site to the US.
@DrGirlfriend: I see this as the beauty of the system. If you’ve been screwed by Wachovia, or know someone who has, then you will be more inclined to vote for them. However, most people have only read about the Wachovia crap on the internet, so are less familiar.
In general, I support the vagueness of the poll, as it lets you, the voter, decide what the poll means to you.
/Note to everyone who is speaking about Ticketmaster in relation to Hannah Montana or Britney Spears concert tickets: Here in Louisville, Ticketmaster controls the Ballet, Opera, Musicals, Orchestra performances, (big name) comedy acts, and plays in addition to normal pop and rock concerts.
I’d say ticketmaster consistantly screws over more people than wachovia does….. so ticketmaster gets my vote.
@starrion: I think we can all agree that both are evil. I think its annoying to belittle someone for picking one company or the other. I think we can have a civilized debate here (until the PR reps start poisoning everything). I think as others have mentioned, its matter of how many, how much, how long, people are affected. Almost all of us are impacted by TM’s monopoly (at least if you go to a concert, sporting event, opera, play, etc). Wachovia’s actions have impacted fewer and so it tends to get less votes. My view is that TM is intentionally being evil while Wachovia is being negligently evil (if that makes sense)and so I voted for TM.
@Ex_EA_Slave:
Losing my temper at Aaron was not cool, but having had people raid my bank account was infuriating. Moreover Wachovia wasn’t not trying to stop fraud, they noted in internal documents that allowing the scammers to operate was very profitable in fees, and they opted to effectively provide bank access to identity thieves /fraudsters.
I’ve gone to events with tickets bought at Ticketmonster. While it’s infuriating, I was aware of the cost and opted to pay it to see the show. At least Ticketmaster didn’t try to empty my bank account.
Ticketmaster is way more horrible than Wachovia. I’ve had nothing but pleasant experiences with Wachovia but Ticketmaster screws you over no matter the show.
I have to say, the reasons given by the voters for TicketMaster are pretty weak, IMO. “Screws over more people” is hardly (IMO) a useful benchmark; what’s worse, screwing a hundred people for an overpriced concert ticket, or screwing fifty people out of several thousand dollars for several months at a time? Quantity does not override quality, I think.
Those who don’t have Wachovia near them, or who don’t bank with Wachovia, and therefore vote for TicketMaster are particularly weak. “Because it didn’t happen to me, I think they’re okay.” The US didn’t get involved in WW2 until 1941. I guess that means the Germans were pretty swell guys up until that point, eh?
TicketMaster abuses a monopoly position in a non-essential, non-critical, purely-luxury-driven market. Wachovia screws a lot of people in an essential, life-affecting market whether they’re a Wachovia customer or not.
@failurate: or read the comments at this point.
I have to go with the company that rips you off even if you don’t do business with them. Wachovia.
Ticketmaster’s been screwing people for years. While identity theft is on the rise now (and Wachovia sure isn’t helping), I was shut out of many a show in the late 90s because Ticketmaster strangely only had obscured seating as soon as the tickets were on sale. -high school sadness-
At least with Wachovia you can go to another bank. Monopolies are bad, mmmkay
@sgodun: “Those who don’t have Wachovia near them, or who don’t bank with Wachovia, and therefore vote for TicketMaster are particularly weak.”
I think a failure to institute policy is slightly less bad than *intentionally* muscling your monopoly power to rake your customers over the coals.
Also, the scope and duration of the issue at hand: Wachovia has only been failing for a short time, and will fix the issue (probably?). Ticketmaster has been an awful monopoly since I was 10 and bought tickets to Steve Miller – and there’s no indication they’re going to get any better (if anything, they’ll keep tacking more/higher fees until some legal official takes them to task.)
@ starrion
Pot/kettle, kettle/pot.
There’s nothing else I can say to you that other’s haven’t already said better.
Hmm… I chose Wachovia, being scammed by people in faraway countries is worse than my inability to see a Broadway show.
Wow, so far I’m 3 for 3 as far as the majority votes. We should have a contest to see who guesses the most winners. The prize could be a bag of discount coupons, and the executive e-mail addresses of a company of your choice.
I say Ticketmaster, because you can choose your bank and credit card…Ticketmaster has the ticket market practically cornered, so it’s hard to avoid them in lieu of another vendor. The last concert I went to, I was so disappointed that I had to get tickets through Ticketmaster. It wasn’t feasible to get tickets from the venue because it was several hours away, so I had to get them online. Two $25 tickets ended up costing $72 after all the stupid service and delivery fees. But what could I do really? That’s who the venue worked with – and it’s the case for the majority of different venues.
I don’t like Wachovia, I have heard a lot of bad stories. But I also don’t bank with Wachovia because I know how bad they can be ….but generally, you can choose to bank somewhere else.
Getting screwed by ticketmaster equals out to not getting to see a show or having to fork out an extra $20-$100.
The scam that Wachovia is running with equals out to people losing their entire banking accounts, getting crushed by bounce fees, having their credit scores ruined and just generally being raped and pillaged while Wachovia collects money from obviously fraudulent accounts.
Ticketmaster’s opperation is pretty up front… you want this? you pay this!
Wachovia is back-dooring folks by profitting from fraud.
“the bank, in fact, solicited business from companies it knew had been accused of telemarketing crimes.”
I voted Ticketmaster because of it’s monopoly status, and ridiculous overcharging of tickets. You can always choose another bank. There are a number of banks that I refuse to do business with, but even more that are perfectly acceptable.
Does that make Wachovia’s crime lesser? I don’t believe so, but it did perform the greater crime on a lesser scale than Ticketmaster, who continues it’s bad practices today with no intention of stopping.
Sigh. Hate monopolies, and BofA (editors, don’t forget to mention their buying MBNA then trying to stealthily change every damned condition of millions of cardholders, one blank-return-addressed-envelope, the key sentence defining the term change buried in 4pp of 9pt legalese text; I’ve caught four (4!!) letters from this, so far) will get my Evil Bank vote later.
And to those that are sneering at those of us that like live music – you’re sad, lonely and artless people. Don’t hate those of us that aren’t.
@starrion: You don’t HAVE to bank with Wachovia either. You don’t HAVE to bank at all. I HAVE to see the Mars Volta, and I effectively HAD to pay more than $90 for two thirty-dollar tickets! Ticketmaster must die.
Ticketmaster is an illegal MONOPOLY! It’s a smack in the face that they are the ONLY way to get a ticket in many cases, and to have to pay $10 (more? less?) worth of bullshit “convenience” charges for the privilege.
Ticketmaster is pure evil. They engage in all sorts of unethical monopolistic behavior.
Ticketmaster’s entire business model is evil. I have been nothing but happy with the retail banking aspects of Wachovia. While Wachovia overall may have some scummy bits there are good parts too. Ticketmaster is 100% scummy bits.
@AaronZ: I think a failure to institute policy is slightly less bad than *intentionally* muscling your monopoly power to rake your customers over the coals.
I’m not arguing that TicketMaster is abusing a monopoly power. My point is, how much damage is it REALLY doing. The product that TM offers is a 100% non-essential luxury product. In the grand scheme of things, literally 0% of the population NEEDS a TicketMaster or comparable company. That, if nothing else, makes it a non-necessity.
Wachovia, like all banks, are pretty much a life necessity, and people do trust their lives to banks like Wachovia. So when Wachovia abuses their position or otherwise screws up, it impacts the lifeblood of a large number of people. That, IMO, makes it FAR worse than anything that TM could possibly do.
Also, the scope and duration of the issue at hand: Wachovia has only been failing for a short time, and will fix the issue (probably?). Ticketmaster has been an awful monopoly since I was 10 and bought tickets to Steve Miller – and there’s no indication they’re going to get any better (if anything, they’ll keep tacking more/higher fees until some legal official takes them to task.)
Again: It’s a NON-ESSENTIAL LUXURY. If you don’t like the way TM does business, don’t buy from them. It won’t affect your ability to live, have a home, feed your children, etc if TM charges a small fortune for a concert ticket that you don’t purchase. But if Wachovia screws up (as they did) then it DOES affect those things. You want to talk about scope, then talk about the real-world impact that these two companies have on people. TM fleeces people with disposable income. Wachova screwed over the working class for a huge amount of money (and privacy).
I fail to see how TM could even vaguely be considered the worse company here. It reminds me of when rich people get all pissed off because their favorite five star restaurant doesn’t have their favorite brand of caviar, while at the same time some homeless guy across the street is rummaging through a trash can looking for a pizza crust.
BTW: For all the people saying “go to another bank”, you forgot something important.
Wachovia’s screw-ups also affected people who ARE NOT Wachovia customers. So, choosing a bank that ISN’T Wachovia is not automatic safety against Wachovia.
Ticketmaster is a cancer. It represents everything that’s wrong in the music industry. I’m appalled the Federal Trade Commission had let these crooks screw fans and artists for so long. Wachovia screws people too, but you can choose to take your business elsewhere.
PPL, WTF IS WRONG W/YOU??? The idea of banks being so lenient with identity theft is less harmful then expensive tickets? WTFFFFFFFFF? That’s insane. Vote for Ticketmaster as worst and you’re just showing Chase, Bank of America, Commerce, etc. that they don’t need to pay attention to identity theft and scammers, just have a field day!
And whats the big effing deal with ticket scalpers?? I paid just over a hundred bucks last month to see the Spice Girls. I really really wanted to see it and the price I got was amazing for where I was sitting. Fees are something you can’t avoid, like death and taxes. Learn to factor fees into the price. If you really want the ticket, you’ll pay the money and you won’t complain like a little baby. And those of ya’ll who are voting for Ticketmaster are the ones who are gonna raise such a stink when your bank has an identity theft scare.
@lovelygirl: Not really; my indifference to Wachovia thing is based more on the fact that it really shouldn’t be surprising. All banks screw people, all the time. Wachovia got caught at it and is being investigated and prosecuted; Ticketmaster is one of the last great robber-baron monopolies and grossly responsible for the commodification of art (though when it comes to the Spice Girls that might have been a foregone conclusion, too.)