Reader Jereme writes:
This last evening I was hungry and decided that I wanted Jack In the Box. So I went to the Manhattan Beach, CA store on Sepulveda Ave. When I pulled up and was beginning to determine what I wanted for dinner I noticed a sign on the order board. It stated that in order to use a credit card it required a 30 dollar purchase, ID and a signature. While I have seen minimum payment requirements before at various liquor stores and restaurants I have never seen one so high especially for a drive thru window…
I did ask if they accepted debit cards which I was told no. Since I did not have any cash I left and went to another fast food drive-thru that did accept my debit card without a minimum purchase or other requirements. I have read many posts on your website regarding this and the many responses from your readers. I did not make a fuss or a scene, I simply drove past their window without making an order as I did not feel that store wanted my business. I did send a complaint to the corporate office of Jack In the Box as well regarding the violation of the merchant agreements. While reporting them to VISA may do nothing I felt that your readers should know that some franchisees are getting a but silly with their credit card use requirements.
Jereme updated us:
As a follow up, I reported to the corporate office, VISA, and my bank. I heard nothing from Jack in the Box, VISA gave me their rules on what is not allowed, and Wells Fargo stated that merchants can set minimum purchase prices. I replied back to my bank with the answer I received from VISA. I have not yet heard back from my bank since that initial response.
…
I just got off the phone with Jack in the Box corporate customer care. The guy on the phone was nice enough, however he was not aware of the VISA merchant agreements either. He did state that the particular restaurant has had some cc fraud issues recently. But this shouldn’t cause users to be imposed with 30 dollar minimum purchases. He asked if I was able to be able to make a purchase using alternative means, so I stated that I did not have cash and did not return. He did offer to send out a coupon for some free Jack In the Box good at any of their restaurants.
Really, Jack In The Box? $30? A fast food place is one thing, but it’s kind of sad that even Wells Fargo can’t bother to read the Visa merchant guidelines.
The relevant section reads:
Always honor valid Visa cards in your acceptance category, regardless of the dollar amount of the purchase. Imposing minimum or maximum purchase amounts in order to accept a Visa card transaction is a violation of the Visa rules.
Visa Merchant Rules (PDF) [VISA]
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I live right by there and have never had problems using cards at that jack in the box. there has never been any such $30 rule or sign.
but I haven’t been since this guy has so I’ll go tonight and check if its true.
(and their curly fries are the fuckin bomb at three am when you’re drunk.)
I used to work at a jack in the box, and I know for a fact:
JiB is incorporated, not franchised.
I once charged $0.07 just to see if it would go through. it did.
I had my own business for ten years and considered a minimum credit card balance. Then I thought, “Why would I turn down little sales? I’m trying to make money”.
Imposing a minimum balance is basically telling your customers, “I don’t want your money”.
Of course, I always carry SOME cash on me and have never considered paying for fast food with a credit card. If you can’t carry enough cash for a Jumbo Jack then maybe you should stick to eating Kraft Mac and Cheese at home.
@snowpuff: Actually… That isn’t the rule as per the contract..
“Always honor valid Visa cards in your acceptance category, regardless of the dollar amount of the purchase. Imposing minimum or maximum purchase amounts in order to accept a Visa card transaction is a violation of the Visa rules.”
If you buy something at the store for $1 and the store has a minium purchase price of $5, they can make the argument that they accept the card, but tack on the fee.
Can anyone quote the agreement that no fee will be imposed for using the card?
Also, is no one asking why they need ID when it’s against the rules to require ID for a signed card?
i used to work at a jib. only a 5 person car load of stoners could spend $30 at one time there. who the hell spends that much on fast food in one shot unless they’re getting a large group order? what a way to kill business.
I go to the Jack In The Box over by my office all the time & use my credit or debit cards 100% of those times. My order never goes over 5$ & I’ve NEVER had a problem. Always the best service there actually.
Shouldn’t this post title be changed? The limit is for credit, the OP said they didn’t take debit at all.
Rampant credit card fraud in Manhattan Beach?!?!? But that’s where the rich people live! I thought only deadbeats lived in poor “urban” areas? I’m in shock…
I’ve been to that JITB and this guy is full of crap. There is no minimum purchase nor a sign on the board. He just wanted some consumerist attention.
@durkzilla: That’s not allowed either. I bet if you were to have picked up the phone and called Amex regarding it, they would have contacted the dealership and addressed it. I paid for my last car with my Visa card. The dealer was shocked initially but eventually went through with it upon verifying the card with Visa. That alone knocked $600 off the price of the car through cash back.
@corrosive: Congratulations, you have just discovered what 75% of all articles on consumerist.com are all about. Pretty annoying, yet I still read daily.
@James Sumners: So you will carry a printout of Visa/MC merchant rules in your wallet, but you won’t carry a single $10 bill just in case you run into a coffee shop/fast food joint that doesn’t accept credit cards?
@donTHEd:
Jack in the Box in a noun…and in some unfortunate cases, a verb. It’s basically what Spitzer did to Dupree
@snowpuff:
Yes, several times now.
The terms of the merchant agreements are different. It can cost a merchant a fee to process your credit transaction and it absolutely murders their profit.
My friends parents own a small business selling vacuums, and the majority of their revenue comes from inexpensive vacuum bags, which people usually only buy 1 or 2 of. If they didn’t charge a minimum fee they would never be able to keep their store open.
Its not about JIB, its location, location, location. MB has people that are closer to God, don’t ya know!
@greensmurf: the bomb?
@Phillip M. Vector: Even that is weird for a fast food place, isn’t it?
I think no one’s asking because the merchant’s reason for asking for ID is going to be the same reason for the ridiculous minimum: fraud. Also, with a minimum that high it kind of makes it a moot point. The ID check never becomes an issue if no one wants to spend that much money.
I wanna know what happened to the flag button. Should we just reply to the offending comments with “Flag”?
@ophmarketing: Uh, no . . .
I think the phrase pennies make dollars its applicable. Many small fees do two things : 1. add up to large sums; and 2. extract a transaction fee from the merchant over and above the large purchase transaction fee. While those fees are generally a % of the total balance, minimum amounts are charged for transactions. For example, a small convenience store is actually better off giving you a can of coke and a pack of gum than allowing you to pay for it with an AMEX.
@That-Dude: RE: part 1; I am inferring that you can have many small frauds committed to add up to a large fraudulent action.
@bohemian:
Wow, they write your CC on the check too?
I would have just gotten a debit/CC card, report it to the bank as lost or stolen, gotten a new number issued, and then given the old number anytime I wrote a check in your situation.
I’ve reported merchants to Amex, Visa, and M.C. for imposing minimums. Never, I mean never, have the card companies made the merchants change.
“I know why they might be doing this…several major POS software packages have a threshold limit where the transaction is immediately approved before actually calling up the bank to verify the card…these small sums are then batch processed at the end of the day or during slow periods.
I know of two fast food chains were purchases under 30 dollars will be approved in this manner. So it’s very simple to hand them any old card you want, get your food, and never get caught.
You can tell this is happening because the receipt will print out extra fast..only taking a few seconds instead of the normal 5-15 seconds in other places.”
THIS IS FALSE.. I write sofware that interfaces with credit card processing systems and a web based system responds in under 3 seconds.
@scoosdad: You mean two laminated sheets of paper the size of credit cards? Sheets of paper that weigh less than an ounce? Yeah, man, my back is all kinds of screwed up from them.
@jdsmn: I don’t carry cash. Simple as that. My wallet is merely a driver’s license and credit/debit card holder.
Do these merchant agreements regarding no minimum purchase requirment also apply in Canada?
That’s odd I’ve paid for Jack in the Box with credit cards with no minimum issues. Though to bolster your point, there was one time I went to a Dunkin Doughnuts and they had a sign that said they no longer take credit cards because of the large amounts of fraud.
A theory I have is that the credit card thieves are now using drive-throughs to test their stolen cards. Before it used to be gas stations. But now that gas stations are immediately flagged for fraud, they are turning to other places to more easilly test their cards. A drive through would be idea for this as it’s quick and doesn’t require a signature. Therefore, I suspect this Jack In The Box, must have had a high amount of charge backs. By imposing these limits, high purchase limit and needing identification, the crooks will go elsewhere to test their cards. So it’s probably not a corporate wide policy, but something the local franchise needed to do otherwise they’d be losing money hand over fist due to fraud.
Visa and Mastercard’s agreements specify that debit cards with their logos are to be treated and accepted exactly like one of their credit cards.
If a merchant accepts the credit card they must accept the debit card also.
Wow, I wish I lived where all you live…
People bitching about spending more than 6 bucks for fast food???
McD’s in Boston…
For a double 1/4lb. w/cheese meal is 6 bucks, NOT supersized or even large!
BK is not much better. 5.89 for 1 double whopper w/ cheese meal…
You can run a visa debit card as a credit card. It works the same except you have to sign the receipt..
@corrosive
Yep your right I am full of crap, because you know I went there because I have used the card without any problem at all on a small purchase. It wasn’t until last week that I noticed the sign. I didn’t have a camera on me at the time so I couldn’t snap the picture. Up until last week though I hadn’t been to that particular JinB for months. So I can’t say for sure when the sign went up. Sounds to me like you haven’t been there in a few weeks either. Who knows maybe they have taken it down since then because there is no way that I wasn’t the only one to make the complaint to JinB corporate.
@forgottenpassword: I live on the west coas, Calif we dont have Whitecastle so you guys are spoiled and yes I am jealous, the only way I can get a white castle is if I buy them at the grocery store in the frozen section.
OMG but they are so good, someday I will go to the east coast and be able to have a fresh one. I just hope I dont pee my pants due to how good I know it will taste!!!!
That store manager is an idiot, not only is he losing sales, but if he would set his machine up to honor DEBIT cards, he would save the 1.2 to 2.o in points charged for the transactions. Why do you think all the major vendors have their equipment defaulted to debit, because it saves them a TON of cash in relation to the volume they do. Resturants work on narrow margins, and why his district, regional or corporate office hasnt pointed this out to the manager is a little hard to believe. My first guess is the guy doesnt want his cash flow traceable.
If they do this for debit/credit, they should do this for cash as well.
When I buy fast food, I simply pay using international wire transfer. Or sometimes, simply gold bullion.
i do occasionally like me some ever-so-unhealthy jack in the box jalapeno poppers.
they’re tasty and good for those late-night cravings.
i tend to roll up on my bike (since they will serve bike customers at my local one, big ups) and pay with plastic and roll off with no problem.
given the trouble that WA has with identity theft and allegedly “stolen” cards (demanding my ID because i’m brown but not from a white dude in front of me=so f-ing classy, not.), i’m amazed they’re not trying this BS here.
It is illegal for any store to require a mimimum pruchase in order for you to use your credit card. Illegal.
If some business has this minimum purchase policy, call your credit card company and get them reported.
I used to go to CiCi’s pizza back when it was still cheap and they used to have a policy where they didn’t take any kind of credit or debit cards at all. HOWEVER, they did have a small “ATM” machine next to the register that you could use to get cash, but it charged you $.99. I went back a couple months ago and their food was may more expensive and they had gotten rid of the ATM. I still paid with cash though, so I’m not sure what their new credit/debit card policy is.
Wow, I live right next door to Manhattan Beach and i used to go to that jack in the box quite often. I ALWAYS payed with debit card and there was NEVER a minimum purchase policy. I just went there a couple weeks ago actually with no problems at all. Maybe they were lazy or their credit card machines were down.
@MissTic: As far as I have seen… Even at some of the large businesses, cash is definitely faster than credit cards. As someone who works at Starbucks, I can definitely attest to the fact that until a credit card can be processed as quickly as the blink of an eye, cash will be more convenient.
Just as the poor baseball fans can bitch all they want about being forced to purchase tix to meaningless games in order to get tix to a great game, the merchants can suck it when it comes to eating transaction fees.
If y’all don;t like to eat the 40-50 cent fee + 4% of the transaction amount fee, don’t accept the cards at all. it is really simple. Nobody places a gun against the merchants’ heads to accept credit cards. You want cash only? Go for it.
You want the safety of guaranteed payments despite fraud? You want the exponentially greater customer pool of those who insist on using plastic? This is the cost.
Also, there absolutely IS a difference in the acceptance/declination of cards. If the receipt comes up before five seconds has elapsed, there is no way in hell the approval was made by checking the individual’s account through the issuing bank. None. All that was checked was the algorythm of the card number (there are specific sequences that must be used when creating a cc account number) and/or a check against a data base for known bad/stolen cards. Typically, gas pumps are the place you would encounter the more lax approval.
First off, I have seen several businesses with minimum limits on CC purchases. These limits violate the merchant agreements with Visa and MC and laws in some states. I have seen VISA pull agreements with merchants that violate the agreements. I have never encountered a Jack In The Box that has a minimum on credit card/debit card purchases. But I would NOT stand for it and I would raise all kinds of hell.
Wells fargo is in business to get the big money from corporates not us little people even though they drain us with nickel and dime stuff. I alledge that by my account anyway they take the checks out of my account first and then post the deposits so they can suck out a little more blood in the amount of $34.00 Does no good at all to talk to them.
Just to let the OP know, Jack In The Box accepts paywave (RFID) CCs at the drive thru, and Wells Fargo offers paywave credit cards.
[www.wellsfargo.com]
If you used paywave, there wouldn’t be anything Jack In The Box could do, as the transaction already went through. Of course the downside is you have to want the card with RFID in it, which is a little privacy invasive for some people.