Staples saw our recent post, “Staples Tries To Charge Senior Citizen $390 For Basic Computer Repair,” and Bob MacDonald, Staples VP of Technology Services, sent in the following rebuttal:
On behalf of Staples, and our entire team of EasyTechs, I wanted to respond to the recent post regarding an allegation that we attempted to charge a senior citizen for unnecessary computer repairs. We have spoken to those involved in this episode, including the store manager and the technician. (We were unable to contact the author of the post due to missing contact information, and our calls to the customer have not been returned.) The facts are these:
The customer brought his computer to our store on January 28 stating that his computer was running slow and generating excessive “pop ups.”
We conducted a system analysis (which is the first step of our PC Tune Up process). The system analysis indicated the presence of a Trojan Horse (storm.gen). Since the PC had only 256mb of RAM, we also recommended a RAM upgrade to boost performance.
At that point, we recommended a virus removal, RAM upgrade, and detailed diagnostic to determine if there were any other hardware problems. Total cost with installation: $243.00. The customer declined, insisting that we complete the free PC tune up, even though he was told that a tune-up would not fix the problems with his machine.
A month later, on February 29, the customer brought his computer back to the store and spoke to our tech, stating that his computer was still slow and that now his email and internet were not working. We pulled up our records from his previous visit, explained to him that the degrading performance was probably due to the viruses that were still on the machine, and repeated our earlier recommendation.
It was at this point that the author of the post intervened and began a separate conversation with the customer. They soon left the store and we didn’t hear from the customer again. While there are many errors and distortions in the original post and the subsequent discussion threads, the most important facts are these:
The customer was never charged and paid no money to Staples. We correctly diagnosed his problems but the customer did not want to pay to have the problems fixed. The cost to fix the problems would have been $243 – quite a bit less than the $390 that was claimed. (We offer a very good value in computer repair, with most of our prices at or below our competition.) Staples system analyzer tool uncovered at least two potential problems with the computer, and we stand by our recommendations for additional RAM and virus removal. (Removing a virus can be a lengthy and difficult process, and off-the-shelf virus programs are generally useless when the machine is already infected.)
Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer. We believe that is what happened here. In any case, there is absolutely no evidence supporting the most spectacular charge in the post – that the computer was opened and the RAM intentionally removed in order to provide a cover for bogus charges. Our team of more than 1,400 technicians do their best each and every day to satisfy our customers. While we are not perfect, we have a pretty good track record in taking care of our customers, and when mistakes are made, we usually go the extra mile to correct them. That is part of the Staples culture and the easy brand promise, and the inaccuracies, distortions, and unfounded speculation contained in the post will do nothing to change that.
Bob MacDonald
VP of Technology Services
Staples, Inc.
PS – Please let me know the best way to get this posted in a prominent location on your site.
When I look at this story, I think of two aphorisms. The simplest answer is usually the best answer, and never ascribe to malice what can be explained by simple ignorance. So we can either assume that the Staples tech had a nefarious plan to bilk the elderly, one which would only materially benefit himself in a small way, or we can say that either or both the tech and the old man and Michael made a series of mistakes and misunderstandings. Still, the RAM unseating is very strange. They are basically locked into place and it takes a human hand to press the button and unseat them. In any event, whichever explanation you choose, we recommend making friends with a local tech and using his services instead of taking your broken computer to a retail tech support service.
PREVIOUSLY: Staples Tries To Charge Senior Citizen $390 For Basic Computer Repair
(Photo: Soul_Motor)
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Someone please submit this story to the anti-virus makers’ PR departments. I wonder how they will feel about Staples claiming that their products, which Staples sells, don’t work. If I were Norton or McAfee, I think that I would reconsider how much promotional money gets sent to Staples to fund their various rebate promotions.
To all you jackasses saying that he could do it cheaper elsewhere, you need to put things into perspective. This elderly gentleman bought a computer for personal use, and clearly has absolutely no idea on how to repair it. Sure, he could order his ram on newegg (if he knew what ram was — which I doubt) by using his credit card on his infected computer. That’s a brilliant solution. It would save him potentially $40 on ram, and maybe get his visa number stolen. To make said purchase, he would have to determine on his own the type of ram, how to install it, and then actually do the installation. Think about that now. This man opted for a FREE TUNE-UP AT STAPLES.
He does not know anything about computers, and that would be far more hassle than it’s worth. To all those saying staples should have suggested AVG, it’s free, but the store is not allowed to use it. Word came down from above while I was working at staples that it had become an issue because technicians were putting trial, shareware or freeware software on people’s computers to run diagnostics, antivirus, etc. It became an issue, so it’s store policy that we are not allowed to use those software options for the services. Staples sells anti-virus. They’re not going to tell a man to go get the free one instead of buying it off the STORE HE’S RECEIVING A SERVICE FROM.
These technician services are available at stores like staples because not everyone lives in their mother’s basement and spends their leisure time on a computer. To a lot of people, it’s an easy job. To the elderly man, he may as well have been working on a car, because he would not have had a clue as to what to do to fix his computer.
“PS – Please let me know the best way to get this posted in a prominent location on your site.” = We’d like to send you a check if you publish this letter on your blogger machinerator.
I had worked for Staples during their previous entry into PC repair work (which they discontinued at all stores due to mishandling of the business model) all the way through the launch of EasyTech. I can honestly say that they do anything possible to make the customer happy, including a full refund if the service doesn’t meet expectations. Unfortunately, this occurs frequently, as the lack of training beyond how to make sales is appalling. The only correction I have to Mr. MacDonald’s rebuttal is that EasyTechs are only provided with off-the-shelf antivirus software (Norton rebranded for Staples) as of the time we parted ways. I was a little surprised to see the original story posted because the Staples culture I remember was a very honest one. Staples: Out to screw customers? NO. Room for improvement? DEFINITELY!
@Cicatriz: “These technician services are available at stores like staples because not everyone lives in their mother’s basement and spends their leisure time on a computer.”
No, actually, i live in the ghetto and work 70-75 hours a week. Leisure time is thus spent far from computers and often asleep. However, i know plenty of people who fit that description who don’t know the first thing about fixing computers. If you’re going to try to slag people do be more artistic in doing so.
In response to anti-virus software being useless in removing viruses:
This is true in MANY cases. Anti-virus software generally does better at preventing the infection then cleaning it. I had a computer with Vundo on it and Symantec and AVG could not get it removed. It was finally removed with a lot of manual intervention and technical knowledge.
Protecting from viruses – most software does a decent to a great job. Cleaning? Downright useless to ok depending on the severity of the infection.
staples doesnt charge by the hour, they charge by the job. $90 for virus removal, $30 for ram installation. You might say that this is excessive, but consider that they’re paying $90 for a job that may take 2-3 hours. They’re not charging PER VIRUS, they’re charging for full virus removal. This fee is not excessive, especially if they’re removing 3 or 4 viruses (and lets face it, if you’ve got one, chances are you’ve got many). $30 for ram seems high, but they’re taking on the liability of any problems that may occur… in other words, if your computer breaks, they’re liable. So $30 is reasonable (come on people, labor, insurance, etc. If you’ve worked in a corporate retail environment, this is not outrageous). Also, Staples isnt New Egg. They have employees who they have to pay, so naturally, their ram prices will be higher. $50 on new egg, $80 in Staples.
RAM LINK:
[www.staples.com]
so that’s $120 in labor, $85 in parts after tax… $205 so far… and that’s assuming that the ram is $85. If it was older, SD RAM is still more expensive, and depending on the computer, 1GB may have been 2 sticks of 512, which would also be higher in price.
Finally… I’ve worked on computers off and on, and I’ve certainly seen RAM come unseated without the aid of a person. YES, it can happen in a car. If the man (or perhaps a child or grandchild of the man) looked at the RAM, they may not have snapped the ram into place. I cant tell you how many times I’ve seen that.
I dont mean to defend Staples, but I am trying to defend the Tech… It’s not fair to assume that he was taking advantage of the man, my guess is that he was just doing his job.
This is actually a fairly reasonable rebuttal. Picture this:
Customer: “It was slow, but I used to be able to check my email and look at the internet. Since you guys got done with it, I can’t even do that anymore”
Clerk: “Our records show you had several problems that you chose not to fix. Your email and internet troubles are likely the result of you leaving them untreated.”
Customer: “No, you don’t understand, it’s not working at….”
Helpful Stranger, interrupting: “Excuse me, I couldn’t help but overhear…
Original: “He explained that his computer had worked well enough for e-mail and web surfing, but after he took it in for the free diagnostic it wouldn’t start up anymore…”
Bob’s Version:“… customer brought his computer back to the store and spoke to our tech, stating that his computer was still slow and that now his email and internet were not working…”
Not bad, except for the “stating that his computer was still slow” bit. I suspect that this is a bit of confabulation (or outright CYA lying)that got added somewhere in the Staples chain of command. Maybe by Bob himself, since he later demonstrates his willingness to play fast and loose with the facts:
Bob:“there is absolutely no evidence supporting the most spectacular charge in the post – that the computer was opened and the RAM intentionally removed in order to provide a cover for bogus charges.”
Here’s The “charge” that Bob is talking about: “Since he had never opened the PC case up, there was only one explanation: While rummaging inside his computer, a technician had (accidentally or on purpose) hit the button and caused the damage that they were now trying to charge him $390+tax to fix”
I don’t know if you’re being intentionally dishonest here, Bob, or if you actually think that your description is an accurate characterization of what he wrote. Either way, that’s exactly the kind of crap that makes you less credible than the original story.
Obviously the RAM WAS unseated.
Bob may have made a mistake when he said it could have happened in transport. He should have known that this community is eager to jump all over anything like that. But he wasnt saying that it’s HOW it happened, only offering a suggestion… I think the main point is that there is no reason to suspect that it was the Tech. Really, the EasyTech shouldnt have even opened the computer, its not necessary to tell what kind or how much ram is inside a computer…
So we can jump on that “transport” comment all we want, but we’re missing his point.
I’m not a pc-repair technician, but I consider myself an advanced user from a hardware and software standpoint. About two months ago my parents’ desktop inexplicably stopped working. The bios would load and then just hang. The RAM had become a bit unseated, and after reseating it, the problem disappeared. This desktop has been in use since 2002, but had never been moved in a car, only pulled in and out of a cabinet. It is not impossible, or even improbably, that his computer’s RAM became unseated. I have also heard first hand from friends who have flown with their custom built desktops that the RAM has become unseated and even become loose inside the case, though that’s while being jostled by baggage handlers. Incidentally, NEVER check your computer when you fly; it’s a terrible idea.
I’m going to give Staple’s the benefit of the doubt in this case. If you knew *my* grandpa, you’d feel bad for them. Old men can be crazy and unfair to companies that make mistakes or aren’t on the same level as them.
Having removed a virus or two in my time, unless you are willing to perform a reformat the removal of some viruses will take an Act of God to completely remove all traces of the virus.
Off the shelf (commercial) products can work, and free stuff can work, but not all products work on all viruses and sometimes even a combination of products will not work.
At the same time I doubt any “special” Staples product is going to work any better. Some viruses just embed themselves way too deep into the registry and backup files to be easily cleaned.
So what is a fair price for any business to perform virus-malware-trojan etc cleaning of a computer? Based upon best cases scenarios I would say $25 for 5 minutes of work the consumer should have done themselves up to several hundreds of dollars for the hours that I will spend cleaning the computer…. at which point just reformat the sucker and move on.
$75 from Staples seems to be a reasonable balance between the extremes, and I bet for most customers the fee is quite appropriate.
@SomeoneGNU:
Protecting from viruses – most software does a decent to a great job. Cleaning? Downright useless to ok depending on the severity of the infection.
Let’s say you are 100% absolutely correct.
Why, then does the Staples website advertise products that “remove(s) viruses” if they cannot actually, you know, actually remove viruses?
Why does Staples sell a product (for as high as $79.99) that Bob from Staples says “are generally useless when the machine is already infected”.
Those are Bob’s words, not mine.
He said that the $243 was the charge for the first visit. The $390 charge was allegedly for the second visit, which prompted the customer intervention. The Staples note does not take that into account and spins it such that the $243 was the charge in question at the time of the second visit.
There’s a difference between simply reseating RAM because it’s not being detected or causing problems (recently happened to me) and the RAM popping out of it’s slot because clips weren’t engaged. Anyone who has installed RAM knows that it’s not like putting a key in a hole… you have to ram the RAM in there to the point where someone new to it may think they’re damaging the computer.
So, since those of us who have installed RAM know that it takes quite a bit of force to make it actually “pop” into the slot, then surely we know that it would take a ridiculous amount of jostling during transportation to make it “pop” out, even without clips engaged.
@marsneedsrabbits:
Symantec, AVG, McAfee, they *DO* remove viruses, just not well. Simple viruses? They do great. Removing something like a word macro virus, it’ll clean it right up. A virus like Vundo? I have yet to see any product(except utilities written specifically for Vundo) successfully remove it or its thousand strains.
So let’s review a few things here:
1. Anti-Virus software is a very good tool at keeping yourself from GETTING infected.
2. Anti-Virus software DOES remove viruses, and in some cases, does it well. However, a manual sweep or specialized tools generally will do a better job.
3. Depending on the infection(and with most modern viruses I’m seeing this tends to be the case) anti-virus software is generally useless.
4. AV software’s defintion of “removing” a virus is often just making sure it’s not running. Most do a less than stellar job of cleaning up the damage.
Anti-virus software is a lot like a condom. Its strength is in keeping you STD free, but once you end up with one pennacillin is generally a better treatment plan. But the analogy is NOT perfect because, unlike a condom, the AV software does give you a chance at removing the virus.
Generally useless? I would agree with Bob. Completely useless? No. Is Staples misselling a product? If they are so are every computer store I’ve seen that offers the exact same product. And that means your beef isn’t with Staples but with computer stores in general.
To you people plugging antivirus programs you paid for, allow me to retort with Avast! Antivirus. Yes, the name is stupid, but it’s free for home use and and is more efficient and less intrusive than most other solutions. It checks your startup data and memory, and then scans active memory, stopping viruses as they attempt to load. It’s also light on resource usage. They update the virus database daily, and the updates occur automatically without you having to do a thing.
Pair that with ZoneAlarm, an excellent user-friendly software-based firewall that also happens to be free, and I’ve had no virus/spyware problems since.
When you do have spyware problems, you can’t beat Spybot Search & Destory (also free).
Another example of an under investgated claim by a person who just sends in a story. Just keep in mind this is not Journalism and you won’t get too upset.
@masonreloaded:
Exactly, that VP is is so full of shit and so is anyone else who thinks ram can just simply come loose on its own. It takes a good deal of force to let one out.
Secondly, I have my doubts he even knows what the inside of a computer loks like , let alone how to repair, upgrade or even build one from scratch.
I used to work in a tech shop and old computers like that that have a virus is a nightmare. 1 virus usually means more than 1. And anything slow usually means tons of spyware. BTW when a customer pays for a service it usually means you have to clean it FULLY. If you never been a tech you don’t know what it means to do that.
Judging from the 256 Ram.. probably win 98 se or ME…
If I were the tech i would just tell the guy it would be more worth it to get a new computer. (of course i would probably get fired for turning a customer away)
If that cost is really industry standard what is the guy going to do? “Hey i’ll give you half price for no reason?”
I’m a former IT guy, and Staples is one of the few chain stores I’d recommend to people without technical expertise. In my experience, they are more knowledgeable than Geek Squad or CompUSA or any of those. Now, in this man’s case, most of what was described is straight labor, which is only $75/hour elsewhere. A competent tech could perform both the RAM upgrade and virus/spyware removals in a single hour, 2 maximum. I estimate he could have gotten a better deal for between $100-180 at a private place. So Staples isn’t incredibly pricier, all things considered. I agree with the commenter way above that said people like this should own a Mac. It just makes things easier for people.
The RAM unseating line is bullshit. Anyone who’s tried to upgrade their RAM and tried to yank it out after forgetting to press the tabs on either end knows this, too.
If it was put in right in the first place, it doesn’t become unseated. The only way it could happen is if the RAM installer was too inept to push in the RAM until both tabs clicked closed.
@krom: If it was put in right in the first place, it doesn’t become unseated.
Right — IF it was put in right in the first place. It is very possible that the memory could have been put in WRONG in the first place, but the computer would still recognize and use it. It is PERFECTLY feasible that the memory wasn’t installed correctly from the factory (i.e., the tabs weren’t engaged) but the memory was installed “good enough” that the computer could see/use it. I’ve seen it happen many times.
I’ll chip in here. I agree with the Staples version. It’s an old PC, a customer who probably needs some help setting up, disconnecting and transporting the dinasour. And it sounds like the kind of repair that doesn’t require rocket science knowledge
Things go wrong. He sought help. He refused it. He transported the PC repeatedly. What’s he expect?
Staples, around here, is pretty decent with stuff.
@Logan26: No it doesn’t. I’ve seen ram that was seated just enough and the tab not fully engaged function. Then a slight bump or a move unseats it. What the hell is wrong with you people? Just because you’ve never seen it, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. If you’ve never been in a car accident, does that mean it doesn’t happen?
I have seen many computers that don’t have the clips, and have had to take computers apart before to reconnect all sorts of cards that are more or less the same thing as RAM slots….
anyway…
I don’t know. That’s still a pretty large mark-up, but I have had the pleasure once or twice ( At Best Buy of all places!!) of an employee telling me step by step what I needed to buy and do instead of leaving it with someone to fix.
the fact that it says “bilk” will bother me for a good while.
OCD of me?
The funny part is… these Staples/Best Buy/Future Shop techs receive bonuses once certain dollar figures are reached on a quarterly basis.. the more they bilk from customers the more bonus cash they make if they hit their sales targets… These targets are spelled out in the stores P&L statements.. these bonuses dont include Spiffs etc. that are pushed and earn the techs extra $$
Simpoleca
Ok, this is what the elderly gentleman heard when he brought his computer in for a free tuneup:
“blah, blah, blah, mumbo-jumbo, $390 !?!“
This is an elderly gentleman and – I admit to a wild guess here – just wants to be able to see the email from his son/daughter with a picture of his grandchild attached.
@CharlieSeattle: If you are paying more for older memory, you are being had. I can pick up a 1GB stick of “older” memory for a heck of a lot less than something new. On the order of $50 or more less than “current” memory. Try Newegg.com or Pricewatch.com….save yourself some money…
As for the virus problem…poor guy should have headed over to Fry’s and bought a new system for $400. Better system, running faster, with no viruses. If he was dead set on keeping it, having a local kid you trust do the work of a full backup/reload would be highly worth it. Heck, if he was really that old I would have done it for free for the guy.
@IndyJaws: Excellent points. Although I’m not really clear now whether the quote was for $250 or $400, skilled technical work and parts are generally not offered for free, especially at large corporate store that most everyone expects is there to turn a profit of some sort.
I personally HATE messing around with old machines that novice users have managed to get infested with trojans and spyware and viruses. It’s basically a situation that I’ll “lose” whether I charge or give it away free – as soon as I touch the keyboard there’s someone they can blame when they do their next boneheaded thing that created a problem. Giving away or charging for an hour implies several free hours of help unrelated to that issue with some people. AND – you’re a bad guy if you tell them they need to install and keep up-to-date virus protection, patches, a firewall, not go to certain sites, or otherwise change their behavior so their computer will work well.
Not knowing the true situation here, I’ll actually give Staples some credit for responding and bringing up that more reasonable figure of $243. If “repairs” were that expensive, I’d either encourage the old guy to find a high school nerd to clean it and install some RAM, or tell him to consider a new sub-$500 machine if it was a few years old. Just like a car, there are diminishing returns on keeping an old klunker functional.
That said, that RAM “chip creep” story seems fishy – someone’s full of it. It probably happens somewhere in the world, but I’ve never experienced it on anything I’ve seen. The store had it booted up to test it, so somehow this RAM was unseated between then and the time it made it home? Very, very unlikely – although if Staples was inside cleaning it (and didn’t boot up afterward) it’s possible that the canned air or nozzle hit the RAM clip. But I’d expect standard protocol would be to boot it up after a cleaning. As much as I hate to side with a corporate Big Box, Staples seems to run a cleaner ship than most and I think the truth is somewhere between this letter and the OP.
Bottom line – if your car mechanic’s shop will fix anything for free/cost, then maybe expecting Staples to do the same is a reasonable assumption for you. Mine doesn’t.
A tech worth his salt would have walked the guy over to the new computer section and offered to transfer the guy’s files for free or at a very MINIMAL charge.
@greenpepper: Well said.
@timd1969:
Way to be argumentative just for the sake of it.
Anti-virus and spyware software is generally good preventive maintenance software but once you let your definitions expire and get hit by a virus or some other threat they’re all pretty much useless.
Once you’re infected the roles reverse and many forms of spyware will actually protect itself prevent you from installing Internet Security software. Sure us geeks can usually fix this problem pretty easily but the average PC user has no clue what to do and rely on professionals to perform the service for them.
@Simpoleca:
I think that pretty much every retail and sales job in the nation provides some sort of bonus if you hit a certain goal but that doesn’t mean that all sales reps are dishonest.
I’ve done enough corporate and individual IT work that RAM coming unseated doesn’t surprise me at all.
I’ve had it happen when I’ve moved computers (home built, Intel motherboards), or when new equipment was shipped from Dell.
HEY BOB MACDONALD, VP OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICES, STAPLES, INC:
You’re either lying, misinformed, stupid, or all three. Let’s go ahead and assume that you’re not lying, and look at the “facts”:
1) The customer’s previous dealings with Staples are not germane to the discussion, and it only serves the purposes of defending Staples’ reputation by making a customer look stupid. Throwing your customers under the bus is not exactly having the desired effect however, since it only exposes your company’s unwillingness to see reason.
2) Asking the store’s employees whether they attempted to rook a customer, and taking them at their word when they tell you no, does not constitute an investigation of the situation. Your insistence that the services in question only cost $243 betrays your blind allegiance to your company; has it occurred to you that the employees could have TOLD this gentleman that the services would come to $390, with the intention of pocketing the excess? Clearly not.
3) Additional RAM, while helpful for just about any computer’s performance, is not called for in the case of repairing a computer infected with a trojan. It will do nothing in terms of defending the computer from other viruses, and it will do nothing in terms of removing the current one. Attempting to convince an elderly man otherwise is a blatant and crass up-sell attempt on your company’s part, pure and simple.
4) A bank of RAM will absolutely NOT “easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer” — whoever told you this is, again, either lying, misinformed, stupid, or all three. RAM requires a specific set of actions to even partially unseat it, and it’s patently impossible under normal circumstances for it to come loose without the intervention of a human hand — a hand like, say, one that belongs to a Staples employee. A bank of RAM might come loose if you’re transporting it in a paint shaker, but it WILL NOT HAPPEN “in the course of transport”. Period.
5) Since a bank of RAM will not come loose without human intervention, this raises an important question: when PRECISELY was it that this customer gave his consent for Staples to physically open his computer? If it was a known factor that his computer had a virus, it seems to me that Staples already knew the problem was SOFTWARE based; Staples had no reason to open this man’s computer. This, of course, leads me back to the whole “taking your employees at their word” thing.
Your position doesn’t hold water Mr. MacDonald, and it sounds to me like you’re not doing your job (except for the “protecting Staples’ interests” part, of course. Since it has to be one of these three options, I challenge you, Mr. MacDonald, to answer this simple question:
WHICH IS IT? ARE YOU LYING, MISINFORMED, OR STUPID?
I await your reply.
Couple thoughts on this:
The Storm.gen trojan that was apparently on the system sounds pretty nasty: [research.spysweeper.com] and to get rid of it 100% would probably require a drive format & system re-install (Sure a virus software might be able to remove the virus, but it may have damaged some system files that would allow another virus/trojan easy access to the system so the owner would probably be re-infected in a week.).
If the system had only 256M of ram, it was probably a rather old system, and may not be worth investing additional money for more RAM. It really depends on what this guy was using the system for…surfing the net and E-mail Win-XP and 256M RAM may be fine. With that being said, when you start talking about investing $250-300 in an older system loaded with spyware/viruses, I may have just said F%#$ it and bought a new system.
@marsneedsrabbits: Have you worked on viruses? Some are removed quite easily by anti-virus software, so Staples can certainly make the claim that the software “removes viruses.”
Other viruses are impossible to totally remove. But they don’t claim on their site that their software removes EVERY virus, so your careful parsing of Bob’s letter is invalid. As it is, he actually looks a lot smarter than you.
@algormortis: I think what he’s saying is, “Since Consumerist loves to post these one-sided pieces without bothering to ask for a response from the other side, the least you could do is make room for my letter. After all, I didn’t just blow off the complaint; I investigated and here’s what I found out.”
I like a lot of things about Consumerist, but I get annoyed that its editors are too lazy to make a simple phone call before posting as fact something that is as questionable as the original posting.
@ClankBoomSteam: Long-winded, pointless post.
Usually I love ‘The Consumerist’, but I gotta side with staples here.
I don’t know what a $40 tune-up covers, but anti-virus removal is not part of it. I work for a small shop that does repair as part of our business, and I’ve never seen anti-virus removal for less than $300-$400.
In fact, if we can recover the data we usually recommend a full-on reformat drive/reinstall OS/recover data/, which we sometimes _have to do_ anyway, for $100. (+ a little extra if they want us to install apps for them)
Somebody like this should get a mac. When I fix my friends’ computers, I usually start out by asking “when’s the last time you did windows updates?”. If I get a blank stare, then I recommend a mac.
i’ve always had good experiences with staples (unlike evil office depot), but this story is still hard to swallow… ramdoes not just pop out.
Another bit that’s odd to me:
off-the-shelf virus programs are generally useless when the machine is already infected.
Um. What? That’s exactly what virus software is supposed to do. Is he confusing virus removal software with virus prevention software?
And if that’s even true, what was Staples planning to do instead?
I think 243 bucks to fix all that is expensive- but factor in big box stores high prices for computer parts like ram and the fact that virus removal CAN take a long time it’s not necessarily unreasonable. Like others have mentioned, if you can’t do it yourself it’s gonna cost you.
Also, sometimes RAM does come unseated sometimes. This machine only had 256 MB of ram so it’s probly pretty old… Who knows how many times that machine has been moved? Maybe it got knocked a little out, and vibration handled the rest.
A couple of things that I notice seem fishy in the rebuttal:
Staples has specially designed spyware removal software? They refer to this particular worm as Storm.Gen, and a quick search of Google reveals only Webroot as referring to the trojan as Storm.Gen.Y, so if I were betting, I would bet that Staples gets their software from Webroot.
The Storm worm is easily removed, by hand if necessary.
Storm attacks Win2K and above. Any competent tech would notice that a Win2K+ machine running 256MB of RAM would seem odd, and would open the cover to check the RAM. My first assumption would be 2×256 MB and one is missing, defective, or broke. If the tech didn’t open the cover to look, bad for Staples.
Upon seeing a single stick of RAM, I would pull the stick and look at the label. I have seen situations where someone placed more RAM in the machine than the BIOS could address, so I would look at the labeled capacity.
I find it almost impossible to unseat DDR SDRAM by moving the computer. I suppose it has happened, but I doubt it in this case. More likely, it wasn’t re-seated. No big deal, it happens, re-seat it and stop blaming the customer for that one.
To quote Bob: “the degrading performance was probably due to the viruses that were still on the machine”
Bob, Virus, or viruses? You only indicated a single trojan, no mention of any others.
And “Removing a virus can be a lengthy and difficult process, and off-the-shelf virus programs are generally useless when the machine is already infected” is completely false. How else does one remove a virus? Virus removal is correctly done with software NOT on the computer, you know, so the AV software itself doesn’t get infected.
Furthermore, if AV software is useless, then why sell it?
The worst part for you, I agree, the customer should have the trojan removed, and should have more RAM. I won’t even argue your prices, they are what they are.
That said, I won’t be a Staples customer in any way, shape, or form with your attitude. I can deal with disagreeing with a customer, but how could I trust any of your tech’s if I their upper management blows smoke as badly as you do.
1.) RAM can easily be dislodged during shipping or transport. Do a rollout of hundreds of desktops and/or servers. I’d lay better than even odds that quite a few of them will require reseats of memory modules.
2.) Even CPU heatsinks/fans can become dislodged; especially with the newer, heavier solid copper/copper core units. Aftermarket heatsinks are even more likely unless they bolt through the motherboard
3.) Staples and most other B&M stores charge rather high prices for memory…unless its on sale. Obviously, the memory here wasn’t onsale. $80-100 for 1Gb of older memory at these stores isn’t uncommon. High? Yes, silly; no. They sell far, far more when they go on sale (once or twice a month). They’ll probably charge $20-40 for installing it too. Again, high? Yes but the work is warrantied as well. If they break something else while doing it; they fix it or replace the machine. Your neighbors kid doesn’t offer that kind of promise.
4.) AV software in most cases will not install, or repair, most heavily infected machines. You’d have to boot off CD/DVD or pull the drive and work from another machine to get a decent chance at removing most infections now adays. Norton, Kasperskey, et al generally suck with adware/spyware/malware whatever you want to call it as well. Those often require more manual work which takes quite a while. Most of them have also gotten more malicious and dirty as of late with constant changes that the virus and malware databases aren’t being updated to catch quick enough. $80-100 flat fee isn’t out of line to charge for something like that. I’d charge quite a bit more. It’s YOUR fault the machine got infected, now its my job to clean it. Its not cheap either. Drive your car without oil and blow the motor? Yea, its your fault and you’ll pay for it.
I’m glad to see atleast a response from Staples was posted though I’d imagine most people reading it have already made up their minds (instant guilt on the corporations part)
@ClankBoomSteam:
I agree with all of your comments, the only nit-pick I have is that part of the service is dust removal, so they had to remove the cover. Which is probably when the tech looked at the memory stick. Again, no big deal if he didn’t fully re-seat it, just apologize and be done with it.
I won’t dispute any of the other points in both posts because it’s he said she said. But I have been a computer Geek well… since the Apple II days. Ram, can unseat itself through travel. Specially if it was not properly seated in the first place. I had a company where we shipped and set up touchscreen kiosks to most of the large universities around the US. Each one had 5 computers inside. One of the steps for the installer was to open the computer and make sure the ram was still properly seated in the slots.
Although my opinions may be assumed by some to be completely biased, as I in the past have worked as a Staples EasyTech, I give you all my word that I write with complete sincerity and honesty.
ClankBoomSteam, in case you are not aware, all customers who have technical work done at Staples are required (before any services are performed) to sign a release with their complete contact information and an itemized list with individual prices of the services provided and the hardware or software purchased, with a clear subtotal marked. Also, all technical services are itemized with the price on the receipt the customer receives. It is incredibly unlikely that a dishonest employee would attempt to steal from a customer in this manner; there are simply too many ways that a customer could easily be aware that the numbers simply do not add up.
As a tech, I think we should also reiterate the point that virus removals are an expensive service because they are potentially incredibly time consuming. When work at Staples, often times I would be able to tell simply from the System Analyzer that a removal would be a lengthy one, based on number and type of malware. The flat rate is there (I assume) because a by-the-hour rate would not fly well with the customers, along with the complexity of trying to honestly and accurately record time spent in an environment of multitasking and an emphasis on customer service. During my time as an Easytech, I saw MANY virus-infected PCs come in, and I can honestly say that in-store price we charged would almost always be worth every penny versus charging on a per-hourly basis.
We as online readers can’t know for a fact how the RAM got loose. It is possible that the employee maliciously removed it, although I find this unlikely because neither employees or managers make any kind of sales incentive when selling tech services (or anything else for that matter). The free PC tune up does include a physical PC cleaning, and memory may have been loosened unintentionally during that service. Or it may have taken a hit being put in or taken out of the car. We simply do not know.
Ultimately, if the associate was dishonest, he deserves to be punished/fired. Staples, in the years I worked there, was a very ethical company that would never support dishonest actions. Did I know certain dishonest individuals? Absolutely. But the company in practice and as a culture always stressed honesty and service to our customers.
Just my thoughts, please feel free to comment or question. If you do, please just don’t do so in a way that makes anyone look like a 5-year old.
Finding a kid to do your work or buying a mac is great advice. But in this case, I say that Staples has a plausible explanation. Will we get a counter-response from the OP?
@cosby: @david.c: @mikelotus: I concur. I once lost an unpatched Windows 2000 partition almost as soon as I plugged it into the internet. Before the patches finished downloading, I caught a malware-installing trojan that wouldn’t let me install McAfee or update the system without a fight.
I eventually cleaned the system, but it was pretty much fubar at that point and I gave the partition its last rites.
@27spots: @BuddyGuyMontag: The operative words are “already infected”. The off-the-shelf programs are great at prevention (so long as they’re current) but are useless against many pre-existing conditions.