Staples saw our recent post, “Staples Tries To Charge Senior Citizen $390 For Basic Computer Repair,” and Bob MacDonald, Staples VP of Technology Services, sent in the following rebuttal:
On behalf of Staples, and our entire team of EasyTechs, I wanted to respond to the recent post regarding an allegation that we attempted to charge a senior citizen for unnecessary computer repairs. We have spoken to those involved in this episode, including the store manager and the technician. (We were unable to contact the author of the post due to missing contact information, and our calls to the customer have not been returned.) The facts are these:
The customer brought his computer to our store on January 28 stating that his computer was running slow and generating excessive “pop ups.”
We conducted a system analysis (which is the first step of our PC Tune Up process). The system analysis indicated the presence of a Trojan Horse (storm.gen). Since the PC had only 256mb of RAM, we also recommended a RAM upgrade to boost performance.
At that point, we recommended a virus removal, RAM upgrade, and detailed diagnostic to determine if there were any other hardware problems. Total cost with installation: $243.00. The customer declined, insisting that we complete the free PC tune up, even though he was told that a tune-up would not fix the problems with his machine.
A month later, on February 29, the customer brought his computer back to the store and spoke to our tech, stating that his computer was still slow and that now his email and internet were not working. We pulled up our records from his previous visit, explained to him that the degrading performance was probably due to the viruses that were still on the machine, and repeated our earlier recommendation.
It was at this point that the author of the post intervened and began a separate conversation with the customer. They soon left the store and we didn’t hear from the customer again. While there are many errors and distortions in the original post and the subsequent discussion threads, the most important facts are these:
The customer was never charged and paid no money to Staples. We correctly diagnosed his problems but the customer did not want to pay to have the problems fixed. The cost to fix the problems would have been $243 – quite a bit less than the $390 that was claimed. (We offer a very good value in computer repair, with most of our prices at or below our competition.) Staples system analyzer tool uncovered at least two potential problems with the computer, and we stand by our recommendations for additional RAM and virus removal. (Removing a virus can be a lengthy and difficult process, and off-the-shelf virus programs are generally useless when the machine is already infected.)
Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer. We believe that is what happened here. In any case, there is absolutely no evidence supporting the most spectacular charge in the post – that the computer was opened and the RAM intentionally removed in order to provide a cover for bogus charges. Our team of more than 1,400 technicians do their best each and every day to satisfy our customers. While we are not perfect, we have a pretty good track record in taking care of our customers, and when mistakes are made, we usually go the extra mile to correct them. That is part of the Staples culture and the easy brand promise, and the inaccuracies, distortions, and unfounded speculation contained in the post will do nothing to change that.
Bob MacDonald
VP of Technology Services
Staples, Inc.
PS – Please let me know the best way to get this posted in a prominent location on your site.
When I look at this story, I think of two aphorisms. The simplest answer is usually the best answer, and never ascribe to malice what can be explained by simple ignorance. So we can either assume that the Staples tech had a nefarious plan to bilk the elderly, one which would only materially benefit himself in a small way, or we can say that either or both the tech and the old man and Michael made a series of mistakes and misunderstandings. Still, the RAM unseating is very strange. They are basically locked into place and it takes a human hand to press the button and unseat them. In any event, whichever explanation you choose, we recommend making friends with a local tech and using his services instead of taking your broken computer to a retail tech support service.
PREVIOUSLY: Staples Tries To Charge Senior Citizen $390 For Basic Computer Repair
(Photo: Soul_Motor)
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“Contrary to assertions in the blog, a bank of RAM can easily become unseated in the course of transporting a computer.”
Between apartments and various dorms, I’ve moved my computer 11 times including one cross-country move. The last 2 or 3 moves, I was not gentle with my computer as I was looking for an excuse to get a new one, and this never happened to me.
These free tune-ups are so bogus it’s rediculous. All they do is get your computer on the bench and try to sell you overpriced stuff and services to support their tech department.
The guy didn’t want or need an upgrade or upsell on his RAM… he wanted the PC back to the way it had always been with the original RAM size- which seemed to have required virus removal and nothing else.
@rjhiggins: Pointless, substance-free “rebuttal”.
@emt888: Ah so because it hasn’t happened to you, it can’t possibly happen then? How many years have you been in IT?
@Crymson_77: Really? Because I just checked out the price for RAM for my parents’ comp (Dimension 8100, taking PC800 RDRAM) and it’ll cost about $300 to max it out at 2GB. Fairly certain anything recent would be significantly less (and mind you, this system shipped with 128MB installed, with Windows 2000).
Life’s most-important questions, answered by commenters on this Consumerist post:
Q: Can a stick of RAM become unseated?
A: With 20 yeas and 13 nays, the answer is yes.
Analysis: This is a stupid argument, which has gone a little something like this:
To be fair, someone made a good point. Maybe it was ptrix.
The tech probably took the ram out to verify which replacement stick to look up availability and price. Upon reinstallation he didn’t reseat it properly, either by accident or by design. Of course, the VP leaves the possibility of technician error out of it, blaming the situation on the vague idea that the ram became loose on its own.
@CharlieSeattle:
If the ram is seated, it will not become unseated without force applied to the clips holdng it in. If the ram is inproperly seated, then yes it can come free but only under that instance, to say otherwise when seated properly is complete and utter bullshit.
@SomeoneGNU:
You’ve seen ram come unseated that you know for a fact was seated and clipped in place. I find that highly unlikely.
@CharlieSeattle:
And you are full of shit.
I have worked for a large computer company for 14 years. We ship and deliver orders on many thousands of systems, servers and notebooks per month in 4 countries. Ram can malfuntion and act like it’s not installed or just cause glitches without the end clip being unlocked. I’ve done it to myself by installing a new video card and flexing the motherboard causing parts to shift in their sockets. Only after reseating the apparently fully inserted memory would the system boot. Video cards, network cards and modems, even cpu’s, last gen Xeons were notorious for this, shift around in their sockets imperceptibly. Generally cheap parts are more likely to do this, but any motherboard or ram or add in cards can do it. Sometimes thing just don’t line up perfectly due to tolerances being off or not lined up well during assembly. Cheap cases make the problem worse, especially in shipping. Get a sturdier case if you want to cut this problem down quickly. Use shrinkwrapped palletized
shipping by truck when possible vs. UPS.
About viruses and other malware, sometimes you get lucky and get it, especially if you research the best ways to nail a specific infection. Also, run the cleanup program first in regular mode, then run it again in safe mode. I can’t emphasize safe mode enough. Sometimes Registry editors or cleaners help with this too. Don’t mess with the Registry or deleting files or changing their properties at home, kids, especially without a backup, unless you are ready to reinstall the OS from scratch.
After doing this enough times, you learn if you can fix it in a reasonable time or you actually save time by backing up the data and reloading OS and apps. I always think I’ve seen it all, but every day another new stupid computer trick reminds me nothing is impossible.
@moviemoron:
When was the last time you been inside a desktop? All desktops have clips to hold ram in place.
I like to know why we have so many who put that much faith in the RAM holding hardware.
@Terminal-Alkyne: Because it’s so rare that it fails; particularly when simply “transporting” one’s computer.
Let’s look at it from a different perspective. An older gentleman has a computer that has 256MB of RAM. He brought it in for the free tune up according to Michael the OP (Original Poster). According to Mr. MacDonald, he brought it in for running slowly and having excessive pop ups. Michael never got past the RAM issue and can’t address the particular viruses or how many there are, only overhearing what the tech said about four viruses. Mr. MacDonald only mentions one infection, the Storm worm and indications of two potential (hardware/software?)problems. If there truly was only the the Storm worm, it has nothing to do with pop ups as it tries to blend in the background as much as possible. If it had other problems then wouldn’t it have been more specific than being a potential problem? Both accounts agree on the recommendation of a diagnostic scanning for hardware problems and the recommendation of more RAM. To go with Mr. MacDonald’s account since Michael didn’t get into anything past the RAM, if the free tune up found only problems with virus or trojan infections and the man didn’t have complaints that indicated any hardware issues, why mention the diagnostic scanning or increasing the RAM since he didn’t have any complaints to begin with in the hardware department? Let’s just assume that the RAM came loose with wear over time, random shaking from car or handling, gremlins, anything other than saying that someone accidentally or willfully popped the RAM out. Mr. MacDonald says that the older gentleman had two visits to Staples where Michael didn’t mention it. It could go either way there depending on whom you believe. Both accounts agree seem to agree that there was no money paid to Staples. Mr. MacDonald says that they correctly diagnosed his problems, but we don’t have proof of that and it is his company so we can’t say that is 100% accurate. And then Mr. MacDonald winds up again with their recommendations and the RAM issue. The Consumerist has the comparison with the original post, Staples shop repairs and Staples at home repairs and says they think the 2GB RAM is what was possibly quoted. Here’s what I think, if you are still reading at this point.
You have an older man who is very tech illiterate with a computer that has functioned sufficiently up to this point.
He saw/heard an ad for a “free” service. We know why it’s free. To generate paid services. But Staples is a for profit company.
The tech did his job of diagnosing what they thought the problems were and quoted the Staples appropriate repair/solution along with an upsell of hardware diagnostic test and additional RAM. Why? To generate revenue for Staples and possibly for the tech. Was the RAM and diagnostic scan needed? In my opinion, probably not if the customer didn’t have complaints about the way the computer ran normally.
If the Consumerist assumption of the 2GB RAM was correct, would it have worked? A computer old/cheap enough to come with 256MB RAM as standard might have not been able to run RAM as high as that.
Michael was trying to do a good deed and relate a story on the Consumerist and while he might be the smartest guy in that town, we have no assurances of his competence.
I’m not a computer expert, but I do work in a service industry where misunderstandings and things not completely heard or understood can cause big headaches so I can relate. Also, I agree with some of the commenters that say at even $243 I would consider a new computer for just general browsing and e-mail.
Last point, I promise. It does seem a little used car salesmanish with that PS add on. Flame on!
@ClankBoomSteam: Rare? And this is provable?
@Terminal-Alkyne: Proving a negative is a fallacious request to make.
My point is that, clearly, many of us on this thread have a great deal of trouble buying the idea that this guy’s RAM unseated itself, particularly when there is reason to believe that the Staples employees opened up the case on the computer in order to facilitate dust removal ~ a convenient (and more likely) explanation for the condition of the man’s RAM than “it probably just happened on its own”, which is effectively Staples’ official story.
@ClankBoomSteam: Well then, do not say that it can not unseat itself.
Wow, sounds like they should rename “free tune-up” to “our chance to sell you overpriced equipment and service”
Nice that Staples got to tell their side of the story, but they’re still pushing overpriced and unnecessary product!
@Terminal-Alkyne: In my experience it can’t. Ditto for plenty of others here.
And I hasten to point out that we’re talking about one SPECIFIC instance, here — one in which the MOST LOGICAL POSSIBILITY is that the computer was opened, futzed with, the RAM dislodged as a result (either intentionally or otherwise), then the computer closed up again.
If you prefer to believe the less logical idea that it “just happened in transport” — possible or not — go right ahead.
@Hanke: Absolutely. I’ve never seen properly seated RAM unseat itself, but I’ve definitely seen RAM that wasn’t set right to begin with.
But maybe there’s a middle road to this story: maybe the RAM was loose and maybe the Staples guy caused it, but just out of incompetence, not malice.
And on another point, part of the reason professionals cost more is that they have more overhead, for example liability insurance and payroll taxes. Pay the neighbor kid, pay a local pro, or pay a big-box with a CEO and a headquarters campus. The local folks will probably give a lot better service, the big-box will give press releases and “customer service” platitudes.
To Bob MacDonald,
I like how you call this thing an “episode”. This is not a TV show, which you can fast forward or a case of some mental disease you can take a pill for. Poor service is not an event. You suck, you screwed up, grow some balls and apologize. I think there is a greater likelihood of your brain becoming unseated than a bank of ram so please humor me and give your head a shake a really violent one, like bash it on a wall or something. Thanks for that typical verbal diarrhea, I love it, love corporate america and the brainless VP that spin the mantra.
Update! The score is now
Yes: 22
No: 17
The “no it can’t” crowd is clearly gaining. But can they overtake “yes it can”? Oh the drama!
“Staples repairs” is an anagram for “appeal rests sir”.
This man’s appeal to Staples Repairs, by virtue of what the anagram tells us……rests – case closed.
this guy’s just plain wrong. the customer got overcharged since Staples’ #1 rule is UPSELL, UPSELL, UPSELL. this guy knows it, and so does all of corporate.
@IndyJawscosby: I get my cavities filled by the kid down the street for 1/4th of what that fancy “dentist” guy down the street charges. Even gives me a tube of toothpaste, too. I should stop all those old people from entering that ripoff artist “dentist” office when the kid down the street won’t charge nearly as much. Damn him ripping off the elderly!
I am also surprised at the faith people have in DIMM chip clips. They are designed to be low friction, with a simple positive lock mechanism. Above all, they are designed to be cheap and easy to manufacture. Computer desktops are not designed with vibration mind. The mother board is prone to vibration from the fans, and flexing if it’s heating up. Add to the fact that there are many cases where installing the RAM chip is awkward and inelegant.
Come on people. How often is it recommended that you unplug and plug back in a peripheral card if it’s acting strange? Just do a google search on “unseated ram.”
@dweebster: I just think of how often my ‘computer literate’ causin thinks the only solution is an upgrade, or a fresh install of windows. The kid down the street is just as likely to turn your computer into a humming money pit as the guy at Staples.
My heart really goes out to people who don’t have a good computer person in their lives.
@ottawa_guy:
wow you think you can remove an virus infections in an hour flat huh? Damn you are good. I have spent 5 hours worth of multiple scans/removals then spent 1-2 hours manually deleting viruses/malware off of PCs.
Also as a business sense you ALWAYS offer potential upgrades to customers. ESPECIALLY when they desperately need it (laff 256MB with XP)
RAM can and DOES pop loose during transport. That is why the first thing you do when you get a PC from someone is open the side and make sure nothing is loose.
For all the obviously ignorant people who think an off the shelf AV will always work fine when a computer is already infected:
TRY WORKING ON A PC BEFORE SPEAKING
Potential Issues (take your pick)
1. Computer cant connect to the internet to update the AVS
2. AVS won’t install on infected PC
3. As soon as you install the AVS, it becomes hacked by the virus and useless.
Most people will run special versions of AVS with the built in updates, or run them off of USB keys with bootable OS. Or even in WinPE with the AVS/updates built into the environment
I met Bob MacDonald once when I worked at staples (an “Easy Tech” like in the article)…. he was a real dick…
(since then gotten a real job and a college degree, w00t)
So, let’s distill the “RAM can become unseated”/”RAM can’t become unseated” argument down to basic terms:
Things break/Things never break.
A PC is a fairly complicated piece of equipment.
Thinks break.
I saw a tire come off of a moving car once. I’ve seen quite a few computers with unseated RAM. Whether or not Staples is run by weasels, things break.
I’d like to know which magical universe the people live in where things never break and everything works always.
Things break.
RAM becomes unseated.
Live in the now, dudes…
If Macs are so flawless and foolproof, why are there Genius Bars? @pastabatman:
So, when the wheel flew off the moving car, who do you think was last one to touch the lug nuts, the certified mechanic from the nationwide auto-repair chain, or the car owner’s neighbor dude who said, “My old man is a television repairman, he’s got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.”
@Trumps: “RAM can and DOES pop loose during transport. That is why the first thing you do when you get a PC from someone is open the side and make sure nothing is loose.”
Ram will NOT, read NOT pop out on it own if seated properly in todays machines. If the ram has unseated itself, it was never seated right to begin with.
@clinky: “RAM becomes unseated.”
Only if it was improperly set into the machine to begin with.
@Trick:
well first off mcafee and norton suck
secondly ever store and every tech is different as all we are given is norton scan and clean which no tech uses cause it’s crap.
personally I use Kaspersky, Webroot (Sophos) w/ AV, and some various tools like smitfraud when needed
the only other two anti viruses I would use is the corporate symantec av or trend micro
staples doesn’t sell AVG or PC Tools fyi.
@ClankBoomSteam: Don’t listen to what they tell you. Your post was brilliant. Thank you.
Working with PC’s for a number of years at a local shop I will say that I have seen RAM become dislodged during transport. Does mean that it completely popped out and was floating around the case? Probably not, but it could become dislodged to the point the machine would not boot. This could easily happen if the guy put the puter in the trunk and the unit bounced around..maybe he went over a pothole? We don’t know. I’m going to say this. Despite all of what I’ve read on here, and despite the fact that some of you think that Staples is an ultimate retail evil, they have always been good to me and are very customer focused. Unlike the Geeks, who I’ve had terrible bouts with in the past, they are focused on helping the customer. With that said, give them a break and go after someone that does rip people off regularly like the Geek Squad!
@rbear11: I resent that. I worked for Geek Squad for several years. It has become a puppet company of Best Buy; any gouging or bad service you get from them is a product of BBY pricing and bad hiring practices by Best Buy.
@drjayphd: I will concede that point. Rambus DRAM has always been outrageously expensive. BUT! it was only in use for a short time because everyone looked at the prices and said, “Just what the hell are you smoking?????” Shortly after, SDRAM came out. Were you using a more standard technology for memory, you would be seeing exactly as I previously stated. Since they got screwed by the ebb and flow of technology…well all I can say for them is that I am sorry that happened. The is even more sad because of the following:
[www.newegg.com]
And btw…that’s older tech too…
Compare that to:
[www.newegg.com]
And my point is made…
We asked if the OP had any response to Staples. This is what he wrote:
And…
The $150 quote for the virus removal was probably including the necessary antivirus software.
Virus Cleaning = $89.99
Norton Internet Security = $59.99
Total for the two = $149.98
I can think of a few reasons why a computer case would be opened for a Staples PC tune-up
The most obvious is that the service includes the removal of dust from the inside of the computer.
The second reason for opening the case (and I think this is where the RAM incident occurred) is that the Staples System analyzer most likely recognized that the PC only had 256mb of RAM. The tech then probably opened the case to see what kind of RAM it took so that he would be able to quote the customer for the right part. My guess is that when he put it back in he didn’t clip in in all the way. I don’t believe for a second that this was done maliciously but the tech probably denied opening the case out of fear because of all the attention this has received
@pastabatman: I consider myself fairly techno savvy (for an end user) and I bought a Mac because I got tired of always cleaning up all the crap that PCs collect (and give out). In order to keep your system running smoothly, you have to install two to three different AV programs, do a system scan to free up hard disk space ever so often, etc., etc. It gets to be more than a pain. I used a Mac throughout college and never should’ve stopped. I wasted good $$$ with Windows based PCs and have absolutely nothing to show for it (save for my nephew who has a decent computer to play games on). I don’t hate to say that I bought a Mac because I’m tired of PCs . In fact, I’d love to shout it from the mountain top!
Virus removal is a lenghty process??
run scan, erase corrupted files, restore needed files from disks or
back ups, re-run scan to make sure you didn’t overlooked anything….
these guys at staples think everyone is a noob and that they can BS their way out of anything…
RAM coming unseated happens all the time. it happened to my computer as well as on my roomie’s. it doesn’t actually come unclipped like the idiots around here are supposing it just is slightly jarred by moving and thus not recognized. you just remove it and put it back in and it works perfectly.
I see nothing but lies. Oh, and $243 is still a rip off.
I ran a quick internet search for the virus that Staples claimed to have already identified on the infected box(storm.gen). It seems that it is a very well known virus that the antivirus companies I checked (Symantec, AVG (which is free) and McAfee claim to detect and repair. I admit that manually removing the worm is probably over the old guys head, but the instructions show that a professional would easily remove it in a couple of minutes. Plus, it does not cause the symptoms described.
From the Wasington Post (1/19/07) “Storm Worm hits computers around the world”:
“…most users would not notice the malware, or trojan, which creates a back door to the computer that can be exploited later to steal data or to use the computer to post spam.”
Manual storm.gen worm removal instructions from F-secure (f-secure.com):
“If Windows 95, 98, and ME operating systems are used, it is recommended to restart a computer from a bootable system diskette and to delete an infected file from command prompt. For example, if a malicious file named ABC.EXE is located in the Windows folder, it is usually enough to type the following command at the command prompt:
DEL C:WINDOWSABC.EXE
and to press Enter. After that, an infected file will be gone. If Windows NT, 2000 or XP are used, a malicious file has to be renamed with a different extension (for example .VIR) and then a system has to be restarted. After restarting, a renamed malicious file will no longer be active and it can be easily to delete it manually.”
Manual storm.gen worm removal instructions from McAfee:
“Removal –
All Users :
Script,Batch,Macro and non memory-resident:
Use current engine and DAT files for detection and removal.
PE,Trojan,Internet Worm and memory resident :
Use specified engine and DAT files for detection. To remove, boot to MS-DOS mode or use a boot diskette and use the command line scanner:
SCANPM /ADL /CLEAN /ALL”
One other thing. I am not an expert, but if the RAM is not seated I do not believe that it would work. If this computer had a total of 256k of RAM it would most likely be all on one stick. I would think that without any RAM the computer would not work at all. I could be wrong.
The ram thing can and does happen. I can’t even count the number of times I’ve opened up a non-responsive computer, and seen a bank of ram partially out of its slot. This can also happen with drive cables, PCI/PCIe cards, etc.
First step in diagnosing a computer that powers on, but does not boot: Reseat EVERYTHING.