Violating A Hotel's No Smoking Policy Could Cost You $250
Hotels are starting to to hit smokers with hefty fines for violating their no smoking policies. Take Dan Cole. He didn't light up in his non-smoking Marriott room, honest. Those butts in his garbage can? Um, he smoked them somewhere else and threw them out in the room?
It costs Marriott over $1,000 to scrub the smoke-stink off a room, a charge they happily offset by smacking smokers like Dan with a $250 fine.
Some hotels seek out actual physical evidence before they levy a fine. The New York Marriott Downtown first started charging people $250 for simply leaving the smell of smoke in their rooms after the brand went 100% nonsmoking in Sept. 2006. Within a few weeks, they realized they had too many complaints, says Anna Cervenyak, the hotel's office manager. Security started taking pictures of butts or ashes when housekeeping found them. Though they still make "plenty" of refunds, they now show people physical evidence, which usually is enough to draw a confession, Ms. Cervenyak says.Lingering smoke-stench can cause a nasty unwanted sore throat for sensitive folks like us—not a perk you want when paying for a room. We'd be glad to see no smoking violators strapped to plane wings and sent through hail storms, but we've been told to work on our sensitivity issues. We're willing to accept that select others might think differently, which is why we have comments.Physical evidence also plays a role when a guest tries to protest against the charge through a credit-card company. Sam Patel, who owns the Quality Inn Brick Town in Oklahoma City, says, "A lot of times you have to argue with the credit-card company" to have a smoking charge accepted. "If you don't find a cigarette," he says, the charge will not go through, and "we lose money." he says.
At least one hotel gives employees an incentive to catch illicit smokers: Swissotel Chicago awards housekeepers a $10 bonus for every smoker they catch.
Where were we?
Right, smoking in hotel rooms.
Please don't.
Now at Hotels: The $250 Cigarette [WSJ]
(Photo: Getty)
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Comments:
do roaches count as cigarettes buts?
OK, I always request non-smoking rooms and I always smoke in them.
This is probably the worst thing I do as far as being a jerk goes. Hotels have been making me sign off on smoking fees as high as $300.00 for years now but I have never been charged.
First I do a C.S.I. style cleanup of my room before I check out. All butts are flushed down the toilet, no cigarette packages are left anywhere in the room (not even in the trash can). If I have been in the room for several days and it obviously smells like smoke, I will leave a $10.00 tip for the maid. I stay in hotels as much as 200 nights a year and I have never been caught.
Why don't I just ask for smoking rooms? Many hotels no longer have them. At the hotels that do have them, they are always the worst rooms they have available. At the Ramada in Manchester NH, the smoking rooms are actually underground with a little slit window high in the wall. These rooms do not get renovated and often have smaller TV's etc. They also stink real bad.
Also, I really can't stand people who think the smell of a cigarette from 500 yards away is going to kill them. Usually the most "sensitive" of these people are ex-smokers themselves.
I had an issue with this in NJ last year. I was in a friends wedding and we all smoked a couple cigars on the patio during the reception. I also hit a bar after with a couple of the bridesmaids.
Suffice it to say I reeked of smoke by the end of the night. Came back to the hotel, put the tux in the rental bag and went to sleep. I checked out early the next morning. A couple weeks later a smoking charge showed up on my CC. It took me weeks to fight it because they said the room smelled of smoke, which was enough to justify the charge.
I love the idea of non-smoking rooms, as I am not a regular smoker and prefer to avoid that stale smoke smell, but sometimes even non-smokers can acquire the scent of smoke without smoking in the room. They need to tweek the rule
@Tracy Ham and Eggs: Ugh, I agree. Any time I'm stuck around smokers, I take a shower immediately when I get home. I don't even wear my nicest clothes when I visit my parents because they smoke heavily.
Sorry, but the smell is completely disgusting, and I'd rather not have other people mistake ME for being a smoker myself. Such a nasty, nasty habit.
Can you tell I'm very against smoking? :)
Laura Bush is a smoker so how can it be bad for you?
i always ask for a smoking room, but if all they have available is non-smoking, i still smoke in it. as someone who use to work at a hotel, i can tell you EVERY room has been smoked in. hotels have a industrial strength fabreeze type stuff that they spray to remove the smell. there's no way it costs $250 to do that.
Ultimately how than they actually prove you smoked in the room short of surveilance(sp). It seems one of these charges is fighting to be reversed in small claims.
That said I don't smoke, but I have stayed in rooms that stunk before I even got into the room. What would stop them from just arbitrarily billing me for the stench???
I am a smoker, so naturally I don't have a problem with smoking, and I do follow no-smoking signs. However I do have a problem with the "no smoking outside" or "no smoking on the property" rules, it's outside people! I've also rented smoking rooms that were a little too rank for even a smoker to take, so much so that I've made them bring Febreeze to the room. If it's a non-smoking room, you shouldn't smoke in it. But I have huge allergy problems with a lot of perfumes, so much so that my throat closes up and I need an inhaler. In my opinion that is just as life threatening as smoke is to the people that don't like smoke. When do I get to request "no perfume" rooms, or restaraunts or airplanes or elevators? Seriously if you need to douse yourself in perfume to stop from smelling like BO, take a shower.
i'm going to start defacating in the trash cans to deter them from snooping in my trash. and i'll leave their $5 tip at the bottom this time.
seriously though, tip your housekeepers. i've never had them narc on me for anything. another tip i got from working at a hotel.
Can somebody explain to me how these fines are legit? I mean $250 sounds reasonable, but what their policy levied a $2500 fine? Shouldn't hotels be required to base their fines in reality i.e. the damage to the room caused by 1 cigarette smoked outside with the butt thrown away inside is much smaller than the damage caused by 50 cigars smoked inside?
(And preemptively, even if you sign upfront agreeing to damages punishing you for breaking their smoking policy, it doesn't mean that the damages are valid. IANAL, YMMV, etc., etc.)
So the choices here are smoking-cessation drugs that appear to cause suicide, as mentioned in this prior post [consumerist.com] or "fines" without any sort of due process for the accused?
Where does it stop? Does it stop before such policies include your cheap aftershave or perfume on the 6 train at rush hour? What about your mp3 player playing so loud that those walking nearby can sing along if they happen to know the words, and share your preference for Norwegian Death Metal? And what about the sense of entitlement that allows you to bang me repeatedly with your stroller or demand that I make way for you, the whole "I have a child" thing?
I don't smoke, but smokers never bother as much as any of the other types of anti-social behavior I listed.
Why is this practice by hotels not condemned as a bogus charge just like the ones listed in this post [consumerist.com] ?
Gee, what if they applied the same logic to your filthy, nasty, dirty Starbucks habit? I bet coffee stains are a major problem for the hotel chains. Maybe they should declare themselves "coffee free"! :)
I work at a Westin where the smoking fee is called "The Renewal Fee". In order to charge the guest with smoking they need to have "evidence". They take pictures of the cigarettes left in the room. It was originally $150 but I think they bumped it up to $250.
Hey Hotels, hope you enjoy small claims court. Time to start taking pictures of your room before you leave. Sound like another excuse to charge you more for no reason.
i think a $50 fee is more than reasonable. i know for a fact it doesn't even cost $5 more to get rid of the smell. this is just plain discrimination of smokers to insult them with a $250 fine.
i'm an ex-smoker, though not one of the holier than thou ones, i let people smoke in my house and in my car. and though i think smokers have a bum deal, with the health risks and all, i think it will be extremely horrible if they somehow make it illegal, which is the direction this is all heading. something in me says that politicians need the tobacco money too badly, but then again it's an issue that can be used as a hot button in politics. if they can take that freedom away from us in the name of a healthier living, what will be next?
@jfischer: All of those situations you describe are very different from smoking because they do not affect ME or YOU directly. They do not subject others to multi-hour headaches or a much higher risk of various cancers.
Yes it is a "free" country (let not take that too far), but your freedom isnt more important than my freedom and visa versa. Leave your cigarettes to your own property and at least a dozen feet away from a building that is asking you to not smoke.
Yes there should be due process, but people like bdgbill deserve the karma they get back. I'd almost go as far as to say you deserve a special circle in hell for doing that.
@jfischer: You got it.
It's getting ridiculous. I have had to endure bawling children, baby puke and dirty diapers but I can't ask for a 'child free' anything. I'd much rather fly next to a smoker than a parent with a child.
@snoop-blog: Try to also remember that second-hand smoking isn't something that a lot of people, including myself, like.
Smoking cigarettes brings no health benefits at all and is just addictive. It's a mess and I wouldn't be against it being removed.
@bdgbill: So *you're* the reason I had an allergic reaction in the last "non-smoking" hotel room I stayed in. Thanks.
@jpmoney: Another anti-smoking zombie. If you can find any unbiased research (it's not easy) you'll see that there is no correlation between smoking and any cancer except for lung cancer IN SMOKERS. SHS is a terror tactic being used by the sanctimonious to justify their awful behavior.
What's more antisocial, enjoying a legal cigarette or exiling a portion of society for it? Lobby the Government to ban cigarettes, leave the smokers be.
I would not smoke in a non-smoking room, but I also never request one, I don't really care - I've never noticed a worse smell than the chemically 'clean' smell you get at most hotels anyways. I am not a smoker.
Meh... just smoke & then get rid of the evidence. WHat are they going to do? Have a hotel detective sniffng under your door & then bust in during mid-puff?
When I first read the title... I assumed that this was just another way for hotels to screw people out of their money.... I imagined hotels just automatically saying that you smoked & charging you (which is not beyond the capabilities of nickel & diming hotels).
I dont smoke (never have), but smoking in your own hotel room is not something I'd consider unreasonable. However, I'd probably demand another room if the one I just overpaid for reeked of smoke.
@bdgbill: I am not an ex-smoker nor are any of the people I know who are adversely affected by it. It is a health hazard and a known carcinogen. Looks like you care more about yourself than other people... smoke outside if you want but your blatant disregard for other peoples' health and well-being is disgusting.
And no I am not an "antismoking zombie", sketchy, and there's tons of peer-reviewed scientific research proving that secondhand smoke IS a danger, much as smokers don't like the fact and try to spread FUD so they can keep puffing away.
People do not have a right to smoke, they have an addiction to it.
Putting aside any thoughts I have toward smokers (i.e. lighter fluid and immolation, fire extinguishers, etc.), this is a good idea. People are paying to have a hotel room that does not reek of smoke and it costs the hotel money to clean them. This is not about any silliness of "smoker's rights", this is about the hotel's ability to generate revenue.
Put it this way: If a hotel had a convention one year and some of its conventioneers were drunk and vomited or urinated in the rooms and hallways on carpets, would the hotel be out of line for demanding a damage deposit or fine for any conventioneers this year to pay for potential damages?
If your answer is no, then why would you object to them punishing smokers for smoking in a non-smoking room?
@jpmoney: Yes it is a "free" country (let not take that too far), but your freedom isnt more important than my freedom and visa versa. Leave your cigarettes to your own property and at least a dozen feet away from a building that is asking you to not smoke.
Exactly.
Just like the old missive, "Your ability to throw a punch ends at the tip of my nose," so does any butthead's - sorry, smoker's - right to smoke end at the air you or I breathe.
the fact is, there are more carcinogens in the outside air we breathe due to pollution. the government is using tobacco as a scape goat to avoid the real environmental problems. sure blame the non-smokers lung cancer on the smokers. it has nothing to do with genetics or the coal burning power plants, or any polluting factory for that matter. you can't convince me all the smokers put together on this earth pollute more than even 1/4th of all the factories put together.
you all feel so strong about the air quality you breathe, but do you do anything about the factories who pollute? do you even go on environmental websites with this same propaganda?
next thing your going to jump onboard with is a group that says we should outlaw alcohol because drunk drivers kill sober passengers. a very similar arguement to your "you can't smoke because you are indirectly killing people".
not to mention automobile exhaust. yeah that's far better than second hand smoke. i'd rather sit next to a tail pipe of a vehicle than next to a smoker, NOT! how many non-smokers crying about air quality drive a v-6, or v-8?
ok i'm done now, unless otherwise provoked.
I just find it sad that they are now using the staff to snoop on you in order to get more money off you. I guess they have a special space on the cleaning cart for a camera.
I am suprised that they dont use a UV light to look for urine & semen stains so they could charge you for that!
@Katorok: coming from a kotaku commenter i'm offended. i've read your comments just now and you have changed my life, i am now follwing you!
the sense of entitlement smokers have still surprises me. we non-smokers aren't nazi's bent on taking away your precious cigarettes just because we feel like exercising power over you. most people find it truly disgusting, not to mention unhealthy. i work at an art school and for some reason 18 year olds still think it is way edgy to take up smoking once they enter art school. on a daily basis i have to run the gauntlet of smokers crowded in front of the building i work in. this despite the fact that there are numerous signs that say no smoking within 25 feet of the building. don't even get me started on the expanse of discarded cigarette butts that people think will magically clean themselves off the ground.
@Buran: SHS is a sham. If you can find unbiased research you will see that there is no correlation between any kind of illness and SHS.
Don't just throw back 'there's lots of research' because I have research showing otherwise. It's out there, but why read something which doesn't agree with your prejudice, right?
@snoop-blog: There's a reason I don't start my car in the garage. I've never specifically been told not to manufacture tires in a Mariott, but I hope most people have the common sense not to try that either.
@harumph: Ya but is it OK to take a businesses right away to cater whom they want? That's pretty nazi like.
@bdgbill: I would love to leave a stinky turd in your vicinity. I mean, it's not going to kill you, right?
@KyleOrton: sorry i got half-way off topic (but it was about smoking) and it was really a knee jerk reaction to the non-smoking nazi's. (and as a non smoker, i realize not all non smokers are nazi's about it.
i still say lesson here is: TIP YOUR HOUSEKEEPERS. i bet they wouldn't bother looking into your trash then, or just stay somewhere else.
but it's only a smell that some are basing the charges on. what next, will i be charged for cutting a stinky fart, because someone else may be offended?
I have adverse reactions to perfumes as well, but cant expect a perfume free room. Charging a fee is OK if you find butts, but if it only faintly smells of smoke, that could be for numerous reasons. If you are hyper sensitive or believe that you are, inspect the room when you walk in. If it smells of smoke, request a new room. Often this will get you an upgrade. If it smells of perfume, request a new room. If it is dirty, request a new room. Dont' blame the cigarettes or the perfume or the dirt. It does happen. Make the hotel clean better by simply requesting a new room. If they dont have any new rooms, request a discount.
Sorry for the rant..
@snoop-blog: Let's keep stinky farts out of this...
I don't like the smell of smoke and I'll raise holy hell if I get shoved in a smoke-smelling, non-smoking room. Taking that out on the person who stunk it up makes perfect sense to me.
I always tip my housekeeper, but not because I trash the place. I'm in and out quickly on business a lot and frequently leave a shoe or book in my room. $10 and my business card means that I always get a call and never have my stuff thrown out.
To put this whole thing in perspective - should a hotel be allowed to retroactively charge for behavior which may or may not have happened while you stayed there.
It is perfectly acceptable that a Hotel refuse to allow smoking in a room, but what does the law say?
Some jurisdictions allow for a rented property to be considered a 'domicile' and thus can not prevent any legal activity from occurring there, i.e. you might be bound by law in the hallways and common areas not to smoke, but you can't be prevented from doing it in your room.
They should triple the fee in my opinion.
@CharlieSeattle: Businesses have the right to do what they want (within the law). If the room is "Non Smoking" and the hotel is "Smoke Free" then someone who willfully smokes should pay the price. Where did I say that businesses shouldn't cater to whomever they want?
@Sketchy
Nope, I'm not a zombie. Smoking smells like arse and gives me a huge headache. I don't like it. I don't need to show a study that says so. Can you link your *non-biased* studies?
I'd rather not stay at a non-smoking hotel, and since this is the Consumerist, I'd say that I vote with my dollar.
I'm not alone and the fact that many businesses ask for there to be not smoking shows it.
It stinks and most people don't want it to affect their lives or their weekend. You're welcome to smoke all you want when it doesn't affect me *or* the business that is asking you to not do so.
To the rant on "environment",etc - we're not talking about that. Lets not be Bill-O and change the subject enough that we lose what we're *really* talking about.
Smokers have a right to smoke. On their own property, or the private property of those who permit it.
Smokers do not have a right to smoke on private property where they are clearly told "No Smoking". Period.
Why is this even a debate??
@sketchy: You know you can make a baby shut up without saying a word or laying a finger on them, right?
This doesn't work on kids younger than maybe 8-10 months, and I don't think it would work on kids more than about 4 years old.
If you've got a kid who's crying and crying and will not shut up, just whirl around and STARE at them. Look as pissed off as you can, and look them right in the eyes.
Every older infant/toddler I've done this to immediately shuts up, and stays shut up for at LEAST a few minutes after I stop staring. (Sometimes for an entire flight) And it doesn't only work on planes.
And I find that exasperated parents usually think it's hilarious.
I know people who are very very adverse to cigarette smoke to the point that it physically affects them and stops them from being able to breathe. I don't have that kind of problem but I really hate the stink.
I have no sympathy for those who can't read the signs or don't know what a circle-slash through something means. If you are THAT dead-set on smoking, rent a smoking room. If the hotel doesn't have any, go to another hotel.
I have nothing against individual smokers (I work with one who's very polite and goes out of her way to not intrude on anyone or let the smell get near anyone who doesn't like it) but if it takes hefty fines to stop people from acting like they're special, then hit 'em in the wallet where it actually hurts.