Link?

Customs is doing a fine job - of choking international travel into this country. I'm sure we'll see considerably less people touring the USA from overseas once it gets around that you can't bring so much as an electric shaver into the USA without it being seized as a "WMD". Jeez.

As usual, the government continues the slide into Nazism where you needed papers just to shop.

@pegr: Watch the video. It's a CNN thing.

I wonder how long it will be before they stop someone that actually knows their rights and is willing to fight for them.

@Randy: You're confusing the nazis with the bolsheviks.

@asujosh1: They will just end up locked in a holding cell in their underwear for being uncooperative.

Is this only happening to people that are coming into or going out of the country? Could this happen to me if I'm flying from PA to CA with a carry-on laptop or smart phone?

it's cuz he's brown.

Is Customs afraid people are smuggling drugs in their laptops? What exactly are they hoping to stop by confiscating electronics?

Steganography FTW!

I had read about this, that the government is often copying the contents of all electronics w/ storage. Such as laptop, MP3 players and PDAs. Question is, if they copy the contents of my MP3 player that has legally purchased MP3s, can the RIAA go after the government?

@Asvetic:

Going out too. There was a story here last week about somebody that had their laptop contents downloaded upon leaving the country (to Britain or the UK I believe).

If the US wants economic stimulus, they're going to have to stop the bullshit. People aren't going to come here if they're going to have to deal with stuff like this.

What ARE our rights involving this??

I would like to be more informed, as a US Citizen, or what my rights when entering my home country are. Are there any sites hosting formal information pertinent to this discussion?

As long as people put up with this it will only get worse.

Just another reason I refuse to fly.

if they copy the contents of my MP3 player that has legally purchased MP3s, can the RIAA go after the government?

They won't bite a hand that feeds them generously. There's a ton of Congressmen that take contributions from the RIAA, American Intellectual Property Law Association, Sony BMG, etc, etc.

Your only right is the right to get thrown in jail if you protest. Welcome to Orwell's 1984...

@Asvetic:
Have you ever gone through customs? NO! You only go through customs entering or exiting the country. This is not TSA this is Customs.

@Aeroracere:

I'm sorry, your rights are classified information on a need-to-know basis. You need NOT to know in order to stay submissive.

@mopar_man: I was more curious if this was just a customs/international thing, or if I could encounter the same on domestic flights within the US.

It's ludicrous- any terrorist worth his salt will just copy the "C:\My Documents\Terror Plots\" folder onto an innocuous and easily over-looked USB thumb-drive prior to boarding...

@alice_bunnie: That's what I was asking. No need to bite my head off, I didn't know.

@Asvetic: give it a few minutes

@B: No, if there were drugs or explosives inside a device, the x-ray scanners would find it. This is clearly rather about information that may be on the laptop.@

Asvetic: No, AFAIK, only the customs and border patrol folks have been demanding access to international travelers' computers. The TSA may require you to switch it on if they deem it suspect, but I've yet to hear of any instances where they've spent time searching through the files therein. In nearly all cases, they'll just x-ray it and you'll be done.

@asujosh1: This is a pretty touchy legal issue. The blog "Upgrade: Travel Better" covered it briefly a few days ago, and it's unclear whether the border area (whether it's an actual physical border or a customs control area of an airport) is subject to the same legal protections as the rest of the country. If you've ever traveled by car into or out of Canada, you know you basically have to submit to any sort of a search they want, or you (best case) get turned back. This takes it a huge step further IMO if they are now indeed confiscating personal property and or collecting data off machines. The guy's a US citizen for cryin' out loud. Still, when you're traveling internationally, you're put in a bit of a compromising situation where it's often simply easier to just waive whatever rights you think you may have in the interest of proceeding on your journey without being detained.

Truecrypt + hidden partitions FTW. The customs inspector wouldn't be smart enough to find it.

[www.truecrypt.org]

Searching the PCs is required. There is no other way to transmit data from one country to another. I heard about this FTP technology coming out someday, but it'll be a while before its widely available.

@doormat: They are going to search your pc one way or another. TrueCrypt just gets you in more trouble in that situation.

@Bladefist:

Google "rubberhose encryption", since you obviously don't know why TrueCrypt is FTW.

I know. But still. All it takes is one knowledgable person to figure it out and now you look really suspicious.

Can we force them to sign NDA's at least before searching my company laptop?

Welcome to the USSA.

@Bladefist: He's referring to double disk encryption where you encrypt a disk twice one that you can unlock and have fake files / or meaningless files displayed when you are forced to hand over a password while the other one keeps your real files safe and secure.

It can even be done with entire operating systems living double encrypted (whether or not true crypt supports that from boot I'm not sure there are other solutions that do if it doesn't)

Simple solution might be just keep a linux live cd in your cdrom and have it boot to that instead of your real os and watch them stare blankly at a linux gui

They would be violating the law in some cases. If my work laptop were treated in the same manner, I would have a nice case of "you're screwed" for them as I work for a bank. There are some records that they are absolutely verboten from seeing as they contain customer information in them. This likely could fall under the invasion of privacy laws and someone should be smacked, very f-ing hard, for allowing this to occur. I hope I travel internationally soon so that I can let them know that if they so choose to "inspect" my hard drive, they very well better be ready for a long time as someone's bitch.

@darkened: Pointsec is one that works well.

@Bladefist: I'm sorry, but explain why having strong encryption on a personal laptop make you look "suspicious"?

Since when did the desire to protect and conceal personal information become probable cause? The mere implication is another further sign of the creeping erosion of our constitutional rights against unreasonable search and seizure, and some folks' willingness to allow it to happen.

@B:

They would say "child porn" (which is laughable).

@VeeKaChu: Apology accepted. But I was not talking as me, I was talking for the Nazi Customs people. Get a clue.

@VeeKaChu:

I'm with you. This government has become more and more powerful, but you still have the right to keep your data/home/files/personal information personal. If that makes you look suspicious...well...that isn't what America is supposed to be about, now is it? Freedom doesn't mean "free...as long as you check in with the government about all your thoughts and plans".

@DMDDallas: In either event, you've got to watch out for those "Commie-Nazis."

TrueCrypt just gets you in more trouble in that situation.

@Bladefist: That's why you have "C:\TrueCrypt Drives\private_data.tc" full of understandable-but-innocuous information, and "C:\windows\system32\dximastr.dat" is the TC file with all your juicy important data.

Since when did the desire to protect and conceal personal information become probable cause?

@VeeKaChu: It's not probable cause so much as just "suspicion". Specialized third-party encryption apps aren't common, and people who go out of their way, by the nature of the program, make it clear that they are hiding something. This leads people whose job it is to uncover hidden things to press further when they find encryption software, and not to readily believe "I have nothing".

So, why did we fight the cold war again? Oh yeah, I remember one reason was because the Soviet Union, E. Germany, etc..., were POLICE STATES.

Go on youtube and look for videos of the Berlin Wall being torn down, or the borders of old Warsaw Pact countries being opened. Those people know what oppression is like, and they were happy to finally be free. Here, morons who accept the increasing security state have no idea what they are giving up. We're quickly becoming a UK type total surveillance society, and I'm not happy about it.

Great story, thanks for the transcript. Were they able to speak to anyone actually affiliated with Customs or TSA about this?

@FLEB: Thank you. I understand TrueCrypt. I too would love to have rights. I am just saying, in the chance you come across a highly intelligent individual who has chosen to work in customs, and he or she is able to determine you are using something such as TrueCrypt, he or she may deem it fun to make your life a living hell by keeping you there and forcing you to release your information. While it may appear to not be encrypted to the naked eye, I am sure trained people could figure it out. Especially now after they read this blog post.

@mopar_man: People are willing to float across the ocean on a home made raft to get to the United States. This seems trivial in comparison

Encryption!!! TrueCrypt!

But there's a really interesting debate as to whether or not providing an encryption key is considered self-incrimination. Law enforcement can force you to provide a physical object, like a key to a safe. Or, if they need to get into the safe, they can just break it open. Encryption is a bit difference. No matter what some uberHax0r tells you, the CIA or other three-letter-agencies do not have to the ability to crack modern, well designed encryption algorithms in any time period that would be cost effective. With that in mind, if some law guy wants you to provide your encryption key, it would be a case of the 5th amendment (or would it?)

IANL, but it's an interesting idea that hasn't been fleshed out yet. IIRC, the story that brought this all on was a Canadian guy also going over the border. The customs agent asked to see his laptop, and he had a directory of child porn open. The agent incorrectly shut down the machine (really a no-no in the forensics world for a few reasons), and when they booted it up later at the office, they realized that the directory with all the CP was then encrypted. Now they're trying to force the guy to give up his key, and the lawyers are fighting it out.

TrueCrypt has a plausible deniability function in it, though. You can provide it two passwords, one for one volume and one for the other. If someone forces you to give the password, you give the password to one volume and the other remains hidden.

@doormat: Truecrypt + Steganography for the SUPER WIN!

I have a huge problem with this, particularly with regard to US Citizens coming back into the United States. It would seem to me that a US Citizen at the boarder should be afforded their full rights under the constitution, including the prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure. However, I don't take as much issue with it being done to foreign travelers. They are coming into our country, and should be willing to subject themselves to the appropriate entry requirements. It would be the same if a US Citizen were traveling to say China. It's expected that you will likely undergo more scrutiny than a Chinese citizen would. Forcing a US citizen to allow a search of their person, private, confidential data on a laptop is a blatant violation of the prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure. Hopefully someone will stand up for their rights and get this into the court system.

@Bladefist: "a highly intelligent individual who has chosen to work in customs"

Dude, really?

On the subject of encrypting, I'm with the camp that thinks it draws suspicion if it is recognized. Just think of all those people locked up in Gitmo "on suspicion". I would prefer hiding things in plain sight.