We read a lot of stories about companies doing boneheaded things but rarely do we read anything like what reader Nathanial sent in.
An avid gamer, Nathanial carried his XBOX 360 around to various events, collecting signatures and artwork from members of the gaming community. When his XBOX finally died, he contacted Microsoft to make sure that he could send the console in without having the exterior case replaced or damaged. Microsoft ensured him that his request would not be a problem.
Nathanial included (along with his XBOX) a letter explaining the markings on the case and requesting politely, but firmly, that he receive his original case back.
And he did.
Unfortunately, someone at Microsoft took it upon himself/herself to scrub the exterior of the box until the signatures were completely removed. This just seems spiteful. Trying to picture the person who thought that giving someone’s signed XBOX a bath was an awesome idea makes our brain hurt.
We read complaints for a living and can’t help but wonder why gamers given so little respect by the companies that make such exorbitant profits off of them. The complaints we get are insulting. From retailers who allow their employees to “check out” products before selling them as new, to consoles and games crippled with broken DRM, gamers are consistently treated like children, or worse, criminals by the companies that benefit from their loyalty.
(I say this purely from observation, as I’m not what anyone would call “a gamer.” The vast majority of video games give me motion sickness, to be perfectly frank. I’m quite fond of Lego Star Wars, however.)
Here’s the letter Nathanial sent in with his XBOX:
To whom it may concern:
Enclosed in this package you will find one Xbox 360 console, serial number 610537654806. I pre-ordered this machine months before the Xbox 360 launched, and I’ve been a proud owner ever since it arrived. Although the original warranty for my machine has expired some time ago, I still keep the sales receipt and original retail box.
I have taken this unit along with me on some of my travels over the past two years, and during that time I have acquired a number of signatures from notable members of the gaming community.
Among those signatures are several members of the Rooster Teeth Productions staff, certain members of the Xbox 360 team, and some of the staff from Bungie Studios. Those signatures are also joined by custom artwork by Rooster Teeth Comics artist and Halo fan artist Luke McKay. This console represents some special memories–of which I am quite fond–from the past two years of my life. As you can imagine, this particular unit has a great deal of sentimental value to me and is quite possibly of reasonable monetary value as well.
I am well aware that in many cases new replacement units have been returned to those who have sent their consoles for repairs. I would be displeased if this were to happen to me. When I put in the service request for my unit, the agent that took my call assured me that the same unit I have sent to you would be shipped back to me. If you must send a different unit back, please put my original case on the replacement unit. Having put the above information forward, it is logical to conclude that I would be most disappointed should I receive a different console with a plain white case in return.
Please take care in handling the case, as despite the fact that the ink is permanent and has had plenty of time to set, the possibility yet remains that it may be smudged.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Here’s how he received the box. The few marker smudges that Microsoft failed to eliminate are circled. You can read a more detailed description of the events here.
Another Gamer Screwed by Microsoft [Hawty McBloggy]
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@Dibbler: Read the full article. The serial #s match. This is the same box with a cleaned case. CLEANED not replaced. F’d up.
… the guy felt it comming, I think that’s why he enclosed the
letter and was very carefull.. he knew he could not trust MicroSoft…
yet he went against his instict and sent the system.
about the employee that took the time to scrub that, i work with
manufacturers and there is no such policy to spend time/money cleaning
the outside of a system… if I were his manager i’d probably suspend
or fire that employee…. for damaging a customer system & second
for slacking off cleaning a system instead of doing his work
makes me wonder why more and more people stand by consoles… you don’t hear this kind of issues with PC’s
@marchhare22: I’m not saying it doesn’t totally suck. This guy had something valuable to him, trusted MS with it, and now it’s gone.
I like to buy and trade in vintage concert posters/handbills from the 60s and 70s, some going for hundreds of dollars each. I could use one to mod up a 360 case something awesome– permanently glue it to the side– would make a badass retro machine! But do you think regardless of some company’s assurances over the phone, that I would ever send it in that way?
Hell no, unless it was either insured for full value or I removed the art from the case first.
It’s a shitty lesson to learn: if something is valuable to you, you take the extra steps to protect it. A phone call or 2 by the original gamer maybe made him feel like he was securing his property, but it really wasn’t.
Main problem is that this gamer guy is trying to be an amatuer collector of gaming memorabilia– sigs, artwork– but he didn’t understand or know how to protect his hard work and investment.
@Lo-Pan: Agreed. But unless you get to a small gathering of developers, then you have to wait in several lines for a LONG time to collect these signatures. It’s really a pain. Not to mention the $50+ dollars you spend just getting into the place.
@AlteredBeast: Actually, I will never be mad a company for something an individual did, unless it was via gross negligence on the part of the company, ie hiring a sex offender to do house calls, etc. But I will judge them on their response to this matter.
I don’t buy the premise that these signatures were in any way valuable.
@A.W.E.S.O.M.-O: If you’re using water, it’s very hard. Acetone wipes that stuff off with nearly no trouble. And it’s not hard to get acetone. I know this due to having accidentally marked myself too many times at work.
@omerhi:
I had a console repaired. I sent it in to a postmarked box that got mailed to Texas.
The system I got back had a new serial number, wasn’t synched to my controllers, and was BLEACH WHITE. I also got it back really fast – it went through a “repair process” of less than a day according to the timestamps on my UPS tracking numbers.
Now, let me blow your mind with some Sherlock Holmes shit. First, list what we know:
1.) They’re getting millions of these, because it was a widespread manufacturing defect and they’ve offered to repair for free.
2.) The repair process is very short – a few hours from opening my box to shipping out a new system.
3.) The Xbox I got back was extremely clean.
What I conclude from this is that they take the machines in, scrub ‘em up, drop in a new board and ship out to a list of customers based on the receipt of the old hardware. This is probably the best way to keep the SLA down – just repair the damn things and fire new ones out as quickly as possible. This “scrubbing” process is a likely consequence of that procedure – they’d have to make it look like all these refurb systems were new to keep customers happy.
Gosh, I have to agree with Consumerist. I’m not a gamer, I don’t play games, I don’t own a console, I don’t even play games on my computer; and I think gamers are treated like shit. I’ve seen it happen at Worst Buy and my friends who are gamers relate bad experiences to me as well. What is wrong with the industry? Doesn’t the gaming industry make more money than Hollywood? Don’t these gaming folk deserve as much respect as any other media consumer?
Insanity.
Oh, and Microsoft sucks.
@cmdr.sass: Not to you they aren’t.
Once you open the case, your warranty is voided. If he bought a new xbox and switched cases, then the new xbox RROD’d, he is SOL.
I feel sory for this guy but if that case meant that much to him he should have never sent the old game in and just bought a new game box and replaced the cover on it or at least removed the case and replaced it with a temp case(that he would have to buy). stuff like this happens all the time because people in corporations are idiots without a ounce of common sense.
Something like that cant be replaced and trusting a coporation like microsoft has always been proven to be a bad thing
@moore850: You my friend are why BA agreements exist. This was a damn shame, and I tend to agree with the posters who thinks this was a tech guy who decided to keep the case, but how is that worth a “7 figure lawsuit”?
(one thought, I wonder if they mark the systems themselves when they get them in. That would make sense that they would mark the unit with what needs to be repaired and the customer name and address before it gets taken apart. After its fixed and the packing slip is filled out they automatically wash it off. I know this is unlikely, but I worked for a car dealership that used to mark every repair that came in that way)
Micro$oft should have never made the offer, if they were not willing to ensure that the consumer’s needs were addressed. He was not asking much and art/signatures was not the work of a younger sibling. They owe him big time, but gamers get no respect, even if Hollywood and the Music scene are dying still.
The mistake he made was that he put his trust in MS to do right by him. That’s all. The signatures on his box were obviously important to him, and he new he was taking a risk sending it in, otherwise he wouldn’t have enclosed the letter. His concerns turned out to be very valid. But, none of that makes it right what they did to him.
Rubbing alcohol will pull permanent marker off just about any hard surface easily. There’s always the chance it spilled and ruined the side of the case and nobody was brave enough to admit what happened.
Not saying it’s right, just refuting the idea that it would have taken someone a lot of effort to remove the permanent marker. I used to work at a video store and we’d mark all of our CDs and electronics with our store code in permanent marker, but when we received discs or equipment from other stores we just removed it with rubbing alcohol and wrote our own info instead.
@ADismalScience: Good thing you’ve never made a mistake!
What the repair facility did was NO mistake, in my opinion. It was intentional and done out of spite. I say that because I’m certain it took quite an effort to remove the permanent marker. If the case had been _replaced_, that would have been a mistake…
@savvy999: Right I totally agree with you about his methods of protecting his investments were not… sound. But none the less when a company lies to its customers making false promises this is a problem (sort of the idea behind this site), and a problem that will be repeated unless methods are in place to prevent future occurrence’s.
I have to wonder how long his letter stayed with the unit. Personally, I’d have taped heavy shipping paper over the artwork, labeled “PLEASE DO NOT REMOVE”.
(But I’m probably a bit more paranoid than average.)
I agree that this was quite unfortunate, and the gamer was clearly wronged. However, I found it odd, almost disturbing, that people commenting on the original post were ‘crying’ as if this were apocalyptic. Maybe I’m just a cranky old Tempest-playing child of the 80s, but isn’t that a wee bit of an overreaction?
Sounds like it’s time to trade in that XBox for a PS3 or Wii, eh?
Granted Sony or Nintendo aren’t paragons of the cnsole gaming but I just don’t understand why ANYONE who owns an XBox at this point has any faith in M$. They’ve shown time and again just how little they value their console customers.
@brianala: Even if rubbing alcohol spilled on it (certainly possible as most electronics repair places use it constantly), it wouldn’t have removed ALL of the marker. Plus, the smudging looks like someone deliberately WIPED it down.
Looks like the cover was replaced if not, most likely the whole unit. They do that for a fast turn around. Remember, they do get a gazillion units for repairs in a month.
@A.W.E.S.O.M.-O: Mr. Clean Magic Eraser. Removes Sharpie for rlz.
Wow, that is completely unacceptable. I’d take them to small claims court if they don’t respond with good compensation.
Also, all those saying “This is Microsoft, what’d you expect?” Isn’t this the same company that comp’ed all those Zunes, without being asked, because of shipping problems that may have caused the Valentine Zunes to arrive after Valentine’s Day? Short memory here, I guess…
I think someone at MS stole the cover. Then doctored another cover to make it appear someone had erased the permenant marker.
Adrian Monk
Two things:
(1) The serial numbers match, so they washed the unit, clearly.
(2) Did anyone look at the graffiti on one side? It basically pokes fun at how shitty 360s are…so, it would stand to reason that MS didn’t like this and washed it the hell off.
(3) The guy is a nerd. These are game developers dude…not movie stars.
@ARPRINCE: That’s what I’m thinking happened as well and the smudge marks are just coincidental.
It doesn’t matter though. A robot didn’t open the box, a support rep did. And upon seeing the letter and art work/sigs on the case, they should have escalated it instead of running it through the normal process. It’s just inexcusable.
The problem with his letter he included is this sentence:
“Having put the above information forward, it is logical to conclude that I would be most disappointed should I receive a different console with a plain white case in return.”
The person that serviced his XBox obviously hates his job and that sentence practically egged him on to send the XBox back sans artwork.
I feel sorry for this case but next time don’t tell them that you’ll be pissed off if they do (fill in the blank).
Make that three things. Threw in the nerd bit on a whim.
@The Bigger Unit: The serial numbers would match if they replaced the whole unit though.
(And since when do movie stars deserve to be idolized? It’s all irrational, at the end of the day.)
i think someone from the repair place stole it, it was his original console but perhaps the repair guy put a new case around it. it wouldnt make much sense for some guy just to wipe it off for no reason.
I am hinging my money on the cover being replaced. I will bet they probably damaged or kept the original cover.
One thing that might keep in mind when you are at a bench for a living fixing Xboxes the techs there probably takes pride in his work or was probably not informed of the letter. They probably figured “I will make it look just about like new for the guy”.
@savvy999: Ah, I was wondering when the “blame the victim” dance would begin.
Thanks to Micro$haft for helping me make up my mind – for the past few weeks I’ve been thinking that I’d be shelling out for either a PS3 or a 360 soon. I can write-off RRoD stories – all manufacturers have QC problems (although yes, M$’s seem to be worse than most) – but this…is just spiteful.
Between the widespread reporting about 360 failures and the underwhelming public response to Vista…it’s an interest time to be Micro$haft.
To whom I say: F you.
@cruster: I’m guessing you never really were on the fence. But let me take the bait:
Do we honestly believe Microsoft (that’s Micro$haft, cruster, in case you were wondering who I mean), do we believe that Microsoft has a policy in place that says “If you see a console come in with signatures and art work, immediately erase it?”
If it was indeed erased, then it was done so by an immature, malicious, and spiteful support technician who should likely be fired.
My bet is still on whole unit replacement, which is still not excusable. But at least the intent here is laziness on the support reps fault and not anything malicious.
But I think it only fair to see how Microsoft responds to this issue first, before judging them on it.
@cruster: I’m in the same boat — the fiance wants to play Halo, I want to play BioShock and the two racing games, but I also don’t want to be sending in the console every other month after it dies… and GT5 is looking pretty awesome.
I’d be crying if I got that kind of treatment. Only, why would I send Microsoft comic books and why would they try to wash them?
It was probably outsourced to someone who can’t read, let alone read english. Sorry dude.
@Dibbler: “I find the article confusing”
That’s because you have the reading comprehension level of a fourth-grader if you can’t grok the story. Shrugging off this malicious outrage proves you’re a troll. Please go away.
And to those suggestion he should have replaced his kewl, lovingly-customized cover with a blank one from eBay, or insured it (ha! – good luck with that), etc., it’s a fair bet that he would have, if the customer service rep would have told him, “Sorry, but you’ll have to take your chances.” Which they didn’t.
He then went through the extra effort of explaining his situation. Only so some MS rep could snicker while buffing off the artwork with steel wool and alcohol.
Peter Moore (X-Box’s Prez) needs to personally intervene, canvass the hallways of Bungie, Microsoft, Valve, Xbox and every other Xbox hallway of note and deliver the poor guy a replacement case of such staggering kewlness that the poor guy is mollified. A free year of XBox Live would be such an insult…
Their Exec Staff must make this a challenge of their personal creativity (or their assistants) and effort that it becomes industry legend. Or they deserve to die a flaming death.
And all this said as a guy that doesn’t even like console games that much.
Obscene. Just obscene.
@Trai_Dep: FYI, Peter Moore left MS for EA some time ago. He headed out right around the time that Microsoft extended their warranty to 3 years due to massive console failures.
@gamehendge2000: Oh, fuck you and your stupid prejudices. Some of us are in sexual relationships and go outdoors and don’t eat pizza 24-7. Some are even female. (OMG! WTF!!!11) Dipshit statements like yours help explain gaming is so expensive: clearly it’s done only by lonely ugly people who don’t spend their money elsewhere (like clubs, clothing, showers).
He had a valuable (to himself if nobody else) item destroyed after being assured it would not be. The last thing you should offer is sexual gratification as a replacement. Should I come to your house, smash your [thing you love] with a crowbar, then offer a hooker as compensation?
Fuck you.
one MORE reason to boycott microsoft game consoles. they know they are shit and breakdown, and then provide complete crap service and treat the gamers like shit.
i’ll stick with my sony consoles. never had a playstation EVER breakdown.
@snoop-blog: my Playstation One after 8 years of service… by which point it was pretty cheap to replace with a brand-new one anyway.
@Trai_Dep: I agree. They would make news if they could somehow obtain these signatures or signatures from someone equally worthwhile. It would be great press for them. And to add, permanant marker isn’t as hard to get off as you think. Regular nail polish remover can get it off. They have those Mr. Clean Magic Eraser things now too. Seeing as the serial #’s matched, it looks like someone just did this out of spite. It’s pretty horrible really, that someone would go out of their way to rub off the markings, with or without a letter.
Is XBOX Live the only successful MS product in the past couple years or what? Vista and the rate of failure of MS’s xbox and the service around the xbox seem to be some major shortcomings on their part.
I haven’t bought an xbox yet thanks to the roommate having one, but I think that Microsoft has screwed me enough in the past with their OS software alone.
@The Bigger Unit: Those games developers bring in more cash then those druggie movie stars. Plus the movies today are either a poor hollywood adaptation of a video game (gasp!) or some horrid remake of something they did already.
I think 1.18 BILLION in January alone ads some credential to the signatures.
[news.zdnet.com]
> A.W.E.S.O.M.-O at 09:23 AM
@rwakelan: Ah, I see. Need to get me whatever they used to scrub it off…
100% isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol does a good job on permanent markers. A lower percentage works but it takes more scrubbing.
@artki: ditto.
i work in a lab, and we use ethanol to take sharpie off all the time.
maybe they spilled a little bacardi 151 on the case, and when the guy saw the marker streaking, he freaked out and just wiped it clean. don’t wanna get caught drinking at work!
Oh man…that really REALLY sucks. Sorry, man. I’d have gone completely apeshit!