Reader Matt has launched the dreaded EECB (Executive Email Carpet Bomb) on Home Depot—attaching a copy of a formal complaint that he filed with the Metropolitan Police in Washington, D.C..
In addition to poor customer service and an inadequately maintained and stocked store, Matt says he was illegally detained by the Metropolitan Police and forced to return to the store to show his receipt to a Home Depot employee.
According to his police report, the officer stopped Matt without reasonable cause and forced him to comply with “store policy.” Matt feels that this was a violation of his 4th amendment rights.
Why are the Washington D.C. police enforcing Home Depot’s “store policies” as if they were laws? Nothing better to do?
Here’s Matt’s letter to Home Depot’s CEO Frank “Li’l Frankie” Blake:
Dear Mr. Blake,
Since purchasing my home in March 2007, I’ve spent nearly $10,000 on various projects around my home; most of that was spent at my local Home Depot in Washington, DC. Despite the poor inventory, poor customer service, long check out lines, disorganization of the store, rummaged-through/opened/broken/incomplete items sold, and many other problems with the store, I’ve shopped there because it’s local and has a good-sized lumber/drywall supply. After a recent incident, however, I’ll likely not return and instead will probably drive a few miles further to a Lowe’s in Maryland or Virginia in the future.
Long story short, I refused to show my receipt to exit the store, and was detained illegally (albeit briefly) by a uniformed Washington, DC Metropolitan Police officer in the 5th District on February 21, 2008. I’ve submitted a formal complaint to the police department, which is attached. I refuse to be treated like a criminal and be held at your store illegally in the future. As you probably know, most retail shrinkage/loss occurs as a result of internal theft by employees, not customers, so the store “requiring” customers to display receipts at exits likely isn’t doing much good anyway (not to mention that customers are not legally required to display receipts).
In addition to this incident, I’ve experienced the below within the past few months:
-Lack of knowledgeable sales staff
-Discourteous sales staff
-Inattentive sales staff
-Trouble receiving replacement parts missing from a ceiling fan kit; the local Home Depot associate actually opened up a new box for a different fan, gave me parts he assured would work, and sent me on my way. The parts didn’t fit my fan at all, and now the local Home Depot has yet another opened and incomplete item; the Chinese manufacturer was more efficient and shipped the parts to me as a courtesy.
-Saw used for cutting/ripping plywood and other lumber has been out of service for some time (forcing me to go elsewhere)
-Initial refusal by a cashier to allow an exchange of a Commercial Electric brand item; she claimed that the item was not purchased at a Home Depot, even though this brand is sold exclusively by Home Depot (after wasting 30 minutes of my time, a manager overrode the decision)
-Inaccurate inventory numbers, resulting in perpetually out-of-stock items (e.g.: one time, the store’s inventory system indicated to a sales rep that the store had hundreds of an item in stock, yet no associate could find the large, oddly-shaped item, forcing me to go to a competing store out-of-state, which has helpful staff and plenty of the item readily available)
-A store security guard grabbing my person and my purchased items and not allowing me to leave the store; my father had the receipt and already left the immediate area (Again, this type of action is unlawful; store employees or contractors have no legal right to touch/assault customers or prevent them from leaving, even if no receipt is shown. After purchasing the items, a customer’s obligation to the store ends.)
-Common items out of stock (one more than one occasion, I couldn’t find a CPVC 1/2″ elbow; this is a very common part, and it’s frustrating to have to rig several components together to complete a project)
-A 40-minute wait to even speak to someone about ordering a sheet of laminate countertop material (I recently built my own kitchen cabinets and counters); three other associates were present and available in the department, but claimed that the one busy associate was the single person in the store who could give me a rough guesstimate of price (I gave up and drove a few miles out-of-town to Lowe’s, which had a handful of popular styles of laminate sheets in stock, unlike Home Depot).
When I first arrived to DC, I was happy to hear that there was a Home Depot in town, as I was familiar with the “You can do it, we can help” attitude portrayed in advertisements. My experiences (only some are list above) have proven, however, that the Home Depot is most certainly not in a position to help as advertised. In fact, I wish I would have spend the thousands of dollars at Lowe’s or other stores. Even with a further distance to travel and possibly higher prices, I wouldn’t have left the store stressed out or frustrated nearly every time.
Mr. Blake, I realize this is a long e-mail, but I hope you– as Home Depot’s CEO– will consider what I’ve said and work to institute changes at the Home Depot in our nation’s capital; until then, though, I’ll likely find a store that’s well-organized and staffed with persons who are helpful.
In addition, I read today that Home Depot recently posted its first-ever annual sales decline, with a 27% drop in the fourth quarter of 2007. With those losses, I’m surprised that Home Depot hasn’t gotten back to basics like having good customer service, sensible policies, and treating customers as they should be treated.
Please feel free to contact me via e-mail or telephone at [redacted] should you have any questions.
Yours,
Matt
UPDATE: Home Depot’s CEO Has Responded To This Complaint
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@loquaciousmusic: If he had simply stopped shopping there, Home Depot would have lost a little money and they wouldn’t have even known about it. By documenting these problems, complaining about them to the CEO and the police, and pointing out exactly how much money Home Depot would lose in the future because of his boycott, he may actually get something changed. Instead of whining about his lack of life, we should applaud his efforts.
You’d probably tell Rosa Parks to get a life and sit in the back of the bus, too, because what’s the big deal?
(NO I am not equating this guy’s complaints with the civil rights movement.)
@Balance_In_Life (PSN):
Hey dude, if you read the rant: his father had the receipt and was out of the immediate area.
Whether he should or should not have shown his receipt is COMPLETELY irrelevant!
The ONLY important issue at hand is that they did not have the right to detain him, but violated his rights by doing so anyway.
Ignore the receipt, it’s not important. Wanton violation of personal rights with no probable cause, and the fact that this violation is considered acceptable practice, is the matter at hand.
@StevieD: “This standard applies to any retail establishment, you shop in my stores you get to follow MY rules. Government rules don’t apply.”
Government rules don’t apply on private property? This is the best news I’ve hear all week! I was worried my illegal cockfighting operation would get shut down, but since it’s on MY establishment, government rules don’t apply, right? And you know what? Just for the hell of it, I’m going to instruct my employees to NOT wash their hands after using the restrooom! Don’t tread on me, Big Brother!
@bkpatt: “, but upon probable cause” (That would be the douchebag refusing to show his receipt, if not arising suspicion before-hand.)
Using the same logic, you can imagine a conversation like this:
Cop: bkpatt, let me search your laptop. I think you collect kiddie porn.
bkpatt: No, I don’t collect kiddie porn, and I’m busy right now.
Cop: Aha! So you do have something to hide. Now that I’ve established reasonable cause, I will search your computer, bkpatt, you kiddie porn collecting douchebag!
There are plenty of people with concealed weapons and/or highly skilled in hand to hand combat who are looking for and excuse to hurt someone. When someone like this who knows the law inflicts bodily harm on the store employee and can’t be prosecuted, maybe the policy will change.
So what is the right thing to do?
It bothers me every time they ask me to show them the receipt, yet I go along with it.
Should I ask them if they’re accusing me of shoplifting?
Perhaps offer to return the items I’ve legitimately purchased?
I’m just at a loss, really. I’d like to “never” shop there again, but unfortunately it doesn’t really seem like they care whether or not I shop there.
In my local hardware shop, you have to show your receipt to an attendant at the front door, who then peruses tne receipt to see that it matches the items in your possession.
This is a major chain store throughout the country ( Australia) and is accepted practice.
Customers take it for granted and think nothing of it. The attendant is always polite and smiling, thanks you for co-operation and wishes you a happy day.
It is hard to tke offence under these circumstances!
Stores have no right to enforce their policies on their customers. Once you exchange money for goods it becomes your personal property. They have no right to detain you or inspect you. It’s none of their god-damn business at that point.
@bdsakx: Good point, if you really wanted to steal something, at least have some kind of receipt to show, even if it’s not for th egoods you have. I doubt that a receipt with 100 items on it is going to be compared against the 100 items you have, item-for-item. However, not having a receipt when you’ve bought something just doesn’t make sense. How else would you justify being able to remove goods from the store? Everyone gets a receipt at the register which is feet from the door, so to not have one just is illogical.
I don’t ever see the problem with showing a receipt. If you’re not a criminal you have nothing to hide. It’s a minor inconvenience and if you’re a pro, you can have it in hand ready to go. Just because you have the right to say no, doesn’t mean you can’t have the common courtesy to just go with the flow instead of causing a damn scene. There are really 2 ways that being asked for a receipt can end:
A) You show the receipt, out the door you go (max: 30 secs)
B) You complain, cause a scene, maybe get detained, complain some more. Come to the Consumerist and complain more. (total time: a helluva lot longer than 30 sec.)
@loquaciousmusic: Name calling, nice new low you stooped to there, bub.
where as I do believe our rights are constantly being stepped on and forgotten, showing the receipt would have saved him a lot of time. He could have then sent the complaint and never shopped there again.
Nicely handled, Mike. Your complaint, and your email, is topical, correct, and well-stated. Even if it doesn’t solve the problem now, properly-filed complaints like this are going to be important as we head into the real battle of keeping companies from infringing on basic rights in the interest of (usually ineffective) measures to protect their imaginary “right to a profit”.
::raises beer::
And to all the sheep who want Mike and the rest of us to just shut up and put up with unreasonable searches…
::raises muzzle::
@codexile: That’s why small, local businesses are nice: They DO care if you shop there.
@Nissan: Maybe that’s even scarier. If your rights are violated with a smile, it’s okay? (Then again, I’m not sure if Australia has a fourth-amendment equivalent.)
@edrebber: It would sure be a hell of a lawsuit. I’ve nearly been in it a few times, but so far every time my husband or I give the legal warning (“You have no legal right to detain me, but since you’re putting your hands on me, I have a legal right to defend myself. However, since I’m [insert dangerousness here], I have to warn you that my defending myself may result in bodily harm to you. This is your warning; you have five seconds to remove your hand before I defend myself. One. Two.”) …the employee always leaves off. Perhaps we keep running into the ones that are smart enough to realize they’re not getting paid enough to get beaten!
Wal-Mart sells Commercial Electric CFC bulbs. Just they don’t say commercial electric on the outer package. It is stamped on the bulbs.
Not for notta, if there is no one in front of me, I’m not going to bother fighting the senior citizen or cop-wanna-be at the door. I’ll stop for the second or two it takes. Not worth the fight.
BUT, if there is a line, NO F*CKING WAY am I waiting on for this. Ain’t happening.
I don’t ever show my receipt in these stores. I only do it because I like being a jack ass to the employees. I love it in Walmart when I walk past the old people at the door and act as if I can’t hear them yelling at me. I’ve even been follow all the way to my car before while ignoring the guy who thinks he has any power to do anything.
This guy sounds like a complete stubborn jackass! He seems like the kind people avoid helping because he emits an asshole beacon.
@Balance_In_Life (PSN): I’m guessing you’d say to Rosa Parks “just get out of the seat and stand for a few minutes”.
@humphrmi: He likely ticketed a dozen that day, and likely only you got out of it. He still made a profit for city. That’s what counts.
I generally avoid shopping there because of
Too many items made in China, putting Americans out of jobs.
Home Depot puts mom and pop stores out of business (which is very damaging to our economy).
The store is disorganized, and the help is terrible.
However, if you’ve shopped there once, you know they check receipts at the door. If you don’t like that policy, don’t go there.
On the rare occasion I have to go to Home Depot (namely because the True Value I used to go to, closed shortly after Lowe’s opened up), I know they are going to check the receipt. It isn’t like they are going through your pockets or frisking you, or making you go through metal detectors on the way out.
Keep in mind Home Depot also has self checkout, so I am sure corporate feels some need to make sure people aren’t just bagging and walking out with product.
@joemono: That’s not the same thing, way to twist my words.
@ CMU_Bueller and all who say the store has a right to detain and search people without cause…
If the government does not have that right then how can one state that private entities do? If not for the scale of the entity (Home Depot) this could be compared to a private citizen strip searching house guests as they leave to ensure that nothing was being stolen from the house. It is ridiculous.
The bottom line is that just because people think it is stupid does not mean that there is no right to do something. I think many of the comments made criticizing the OP are pretty stupid but I would be just as worked up if you weren’t allowed your right (albeit to be stupid) to speak your mind.
The 4th Amendment is a pretty important right and if Home Depot found something illegal in one of their illegal searches it would not be thrown out of court as it was not an illegal search by the government but rather information discovered and passed along by a private entity. I would personally rather not be searched by proxy for the government.
Sam’s Club does this. Is it illegal? I really wouldn’t care except that I have to stand there for 10 minutes waiting to show my receipt for my one rotisserie chicken why twenty people with flatbeds get “checked” in front of me. If it’s illegal, maybe I’ll just walk out.
@Balance_In_Life (PSN): So if the cop told you to turn your t-shirt that said Vote Obama inside out because it would only take 5 minutes, that would be okay?
That’s why they call them *rights*. It is *NOT* okay.
–Michael
the quality of service at that home depot has declined rapidly since it opened a few years back … and they seem to be so concerned with the checking receipts while they have absolutely no concern about the day laborers hanging out in the parking lot all day (drinking, lounging in the landscaping, walking by your car as you trying to get out, etc…) … i just shop at the smaller local hardware stores where there is better service and they don’t treat you like a criminal
@ClayS: No. They are not allowed to touch you. At least in DC and Md, if anyone in a store lays a hand on you it’s assault. Even if you are shoplifting.
Im glad to see more people fighting the “show your receipt” requirement. Its an illegal search plain and simple. Unless they have reason to believe you have committed a crime there should be no check.
of course, the store will claim this is not to stop shoplifting but to make sure everything you purchased made it into your bag! How sweet of them.
Thumbs up for the man standing up for his rights. And shame on those saying we should forfeit our rights for a little convenience.
@bdsakx: Go right ahead and blend in. And while you’re at it, RTFA.
The poster states that his father had the receipt and had already left.
Would you suggest stores pin the receipts to our shirts so we don’t forget on our way out that they assume all of their customers are guilty of theft until they walk out the door?
@mthrndr: As others have pointed out, when you joins Sams and Costco, you sign and agree to their membership contract, which includes verbage that allows them to check receipts.
No such contract exists by default when you enter a non-membership big box store.
FWIW, I stopped shopping at Home Depot about two years ago. Without exaggeration, they had perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 of the items I was looking for at any given time. The sales staff was mediocre at best, the shelves are always in disarray, and nearly every time I bought something I’d have to come back and return it
True story: I once went in to buy a gallon of mixed paint. The only person available was an unsupervised 20-something year old man who was clearly autistic and had a “New Employee” badge on his vest. It took an hour and a half to get the paint, during which I made four attempts to engage a manager or other sales person to assist the poor guy (who clearly had no idea what he was doing). The punchline, of course, is that the paint I received was not the right color so I had to get ANOTHER gallon made. (This time I forced the issue; I went behind the counter and sat in front of the register until the paint was mixed.)
I’ve since done my shopping at Lowes (much better, but not perfect) and my local Ace Hardware, the latter of which contains the most helpful and attentive salespeople I’ve ever met in any business.
@mikelotus:
I wasn’t talking about a Home Depot, but rather giving examples of other stores (like Best Buy and Wal-Mart especially) where the person at the door waved me passed before I could whip out the receipt. And the person had the pen in hand to check.
Ya fuck that shit. If the alarm goes off when I exit the store I don’t stop. My thinking is: I didn’t steal anything. What? I lose my rights to privacy just because a machine beeps and red light flashes? Now I got to let some guy with a double digit IQ and a triple digit income root through my bags?
As far as I know they got someone at a monitor in back, turning on the ‘alarm’ when someone ‘suspicious’ goes through.
I have to wonder what kind of legal action this person can take against the police? Seems like wrongful arrest to me.
Can I go up to a stranger and ask to see a receipt for the last thing they bought and then call the police if they don’t? What CRIME was committed when he didn’t show the receipt.
I just keep walking and so far no one has hassled me.
@suburbancowboy:
I have a better idea. I’ll shop wherever I want to. If they have a policy I don’t like, I’ll ignore it. If they don’t like the fact that I won’t follow their policy, they may refuse to do business with me or ask me to leave. Because absent probable cause for a shoplifting detention, that is the only legal authority they have over me.
The *only* reason stores ask to see receipts at all is because of all the *sheep* that just comply. If the *sheep* would stand up for their rights and refuse to comply, the stores would stop doing this.
So so all the *sheep* … just say no so that the rest of us stop being bothered.
Outside of Costco, I ignore the *sheep* lines and walk right out of the store, but I do hold up my receipt as I exit. If they say something as I walk away, I simply reply “no thanks”
don’t go to lowes or home depot if you want actual service. go there for cheapness and to be treated like you have the plague. same with most big box stores. once you’ve mastered this lesson, then you can move on with your life.
TIP: small hardware stores are much better at helping you and having the usuals in stock.
@Balance_In_Life (PSN):
Can I set up a camera in your bed room and bath room? If you have nothing to hide, why not?
@homerjay:
That is the stupidest statement in the world, “Let’s agree to disagree”
Let’s get sick for our health.
Let’s fight for peace.
Let’s pray for atheism.
Let’s agree to disagree.
Let’s add to subtract.
Let’s be stupid for intelligence.
For those who feel that the Bag / Receipt checks are OK, what if they changed it a little. What if they moved the Receipt check to the edge of the parking lot. The setup barriers at all of the exits of the lot and then stopped each car as it leaves and see if they will show their receipt. If they say “No”, should they then have the right to not only search you, but your car and anyone in it? I don’t think so. Should we be putting up with these types of things? You may want to, but I don’t. They have no rights to touch me, or my items unless they have probable cause. In most places they will not even approach you unless they have video evidence to go along with it because eye witness accounts can be easily faked or false.
I am not a sheep, and will not follow their rules. If they don’t like it, that’s fine, ban me from their establishment.
BTW: I’ve never been banned from anywhere.
Buran: Feel free to surrender yourself, but don’t you dare complain about someone else not bending over.
Word!
@shor0814:
Possibly – but I see it as a starting point. Rather than grab someone and detain them, start gently by asking them for a receipt.
The real crux of the issue is: Who is authority going to side with: The guy or the merchant/police.
I think we both know that answer….
Because I don’t shop at Home Depot if I can help it, I asked my husband who is a self-professed Home Depot addict about this thread. He verified that he has never been asked for his receipt at our local Home Depot. I can’t imagine being asked for my receipt at ANY local store (other than Costco). For that matter, I can’t remember EVER having to show a receipt in my 41 years, despite having traveled extensively.
Yet, so many on this thread act as if it were a common event. I would be startled and offended. I would probably raise a holy stink while I was digging out the receipt. I would probably be banned from ever shopping there again which would be meaningless, because I don’t tend to go back to stores that make me raise holy stinks.
And I would write letters to the manager and corporate office. And waste at least as much time on the issue as our Home Depot customer. I have better things to do. So don’t make me show my stinkin’ receipt!
I am familiar with this Home Depot and it is horrendous. However, Matt was not illegally detained. The store requested to see his receit to make sure he wasn’t stealing something. When he refused, the store suspected he did steal something and asked the police to look into it. This is legal. The police can detain you briefly for any reason they see fit, whether you are walking down the street or in your car. It’s called a Terry Stop. And by the way, probable cause refers to searches of property, and it doesn’t really apply here.
No, Matt was not legally required to show his receipt, but the officer can detain him if the store claims he was shoplifting. If he didn’t steal anything, the receipt would only serve to prove he didn’t.
If Matt refuses to show his receipt and the store says he stole something, the officer can decide to arrest him.
People need to learn to pick their battles.
I was a little off on the Terry stop. An officer must have “reason suspicion” to detain someone under this ruling. But if Home Depot emloyees say he stole and the officer believes them, that probably would satisfy the requirement.
Although I disagree with you not showing your receipt when you were leaving the store (like it or not, the store has policies. If you have questions about those, you can ask a manager to explain, but wasting store associate’s time is what causes lack of personnel available to assist other customers. And this is one of those times where you should have been taught growing up to pick your battles… this is one that didn’t have to be picked.)
…. that said… I commend your course of action to resolve your situation. Again, i don’t agree with the problem you are making the complaint about, I feel you are equally to blame for the issue that started all this… the receipt, but, you are going about handling your complaint in a very level headed way. Your letter is clear, outlines all of your complaints, gives good examples, overall it is very well composed.
Seriously, you are a whining bitch and I’m sure the store is glad to get rid of you.
It would be one thing if all that ever happened was they detained you. I would be pissed too.
However, there is a whole list of times you complained to someone about something. Most people might return something occasionally, but you are on a mission to have everything done your way
You are a whiny bitch. Deal with it. A whiny bitch.
@Dooley:
hmm… ‘lets agree to disagree’ is actual a pillar of society remaining peaceful. People will have differing views on things, and most times, each view is partially right, and partially wrong, but overall unimportant enough to where it is best to ‘agree to disagree’ to keep the peace.
Its one of those things that makes sense when you get married, and do your best to stay married instead of taking the easy way out with divorce.
It amazes me how people think that checking a receipt is somehow an infringement on their rights. For starters…stores should ask for receipts…it helps stop theft. If you dont like it, then shop elsewhere. You are in THEIR store. If I thought someone was walking out of my house with my stuff, hell yes, I would do something to stop it.
Also…read what the bill of rights actually is…its to prevent the govt from putting restraints and restrictions on the people.
I worked in retail for 6 years, and most of the theft is internal, however, internal theft takes many more man hours to investigate and pursue. They have to try to curtail the theft somehow.
For all the complainers…here’s a very simple suggestion….
Keep your receipt in your hand until you get in your car. Think you can handle that?
@FilthyHarry: triple digit income in retail? What planet do you live on? Unless you mean $7.00 per hr.