She writes:
When I went to pay for the order, I noticed a gratuity already included on the bill. I told the waiter, “this is take out gratuity is not included.”He looked at me and said “that’s how we always do it.” I sat there staring at my bill scratching my head wondering if i should sign this receipt. A few seconds later they told me that they were out of what i had ordered. Good I thought. Cancel my order completely, but I’m taking the receipt.
We called the Coconut Grove Johnny Rockets last night and spoke with a manager who explained: “It’s the law that we have here.” Even worse, the Coconut Grove Grapevine posted another Johnny Rockets receipt, and it looks like they are adding the 15% gratuity to the post-tax total. Let’s see what the Florida Department of Revenue thinks of the arrangement:
…Rule 12A- 1.011(11), F.A.C., provides that the unless the following conditions are met, a gratuity is taxable as part of the total sales price:
The charge is a voluntary gratuity or tip added to or by the purchaser to his bill or money given freely by the purchaser over and above the sales price of such food or drink product; and Separately stated on the purchaser’s bill or invoice as a gratuity or tip; and All such voluntary gratuities must be distributed in full to the employees at least every six months with no part accruing to the benefit or advantage of the dealer.
Even if the tip is legal, does Johnny Rockets really think they are worth a mandatory 15% gratuity? Stop pretending to be Per Se and earn your tip.
Restaurants and Bars Standard Industry Guide [Florida Department of Revenue]
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@MsClear: No wonder your budget doesn’t allow for take aways when you add 20% to every restaurant meal. That’s insane. 20% of the price of your food for carrying it to you because that is their job? Shit, I’m getting a job as a waiter.
On another note, tipping for take away takes the biscuit. I’d hate to be insulting to the rest of America when I say only in America, but where else would you see something like that. Here, have free money for hating your job and pressing some buttons and treating me like crap.
I can’t get my head around the American states that force some stupid high price onto everything you buy after you get to the counter (I know the UK taxes too, but it’s not added after you get to the counter its the standard price, and it’s not different between places in the same country, which is also insane, but that’s another story), but forcing tips, get the hell out.
Minimum wage is just that, the minimum wage you can be paid, you won’t be getting less than that. Plenty of jobs are on minimum wage with no tips.
@camman68: If abolishing the tip and replacing it with a decent wage would provide bad service then how do all the other countries where tipping doesnt happen, have good service? They do what a lot of places should do and that’s FIRE those who dont perform to the level of service that is required of them. There is already too much coddling in this country
@Pithlit: I guess I don’t see the problem. $2.57 isn’t much money, true, but things like that can add up over time. If you’re trying to manage your money, you may have a limit set for what you can spend on non-essential purchases like entertainment or dining out, and extra fees could put you over your budget. So I don’t think she was out of line to question the fee, but it was totally out of line for the employee to lie to her. (She may have become obnoxious about it, I don’t know, but that’s when you call your manager instead of making up excuses about being out of burgers.)
@AnneofAndover:
Yeah, I agree…. I would have raised hell at corporate for THAT kind of treatment (the cash register jockey lying & saying that they were out of food because the customer didnt want to pay an automatic tip for no REAL service rendered).
And to the others…. i dont buy the BS rationale that because the waitress has to take time from serving tables (& earning tips) to stick my burger in a bag that THAT somehow deserves a tip? You dont deserve a tip for missing out on others’ tips.
I tip $1.00 for take-outs at non-fastfood restaurants. Generally, the same amount I tip a bartender for bringing me a beer. I love it when a restaurant adds the tip in automatically for dine-in meals. I figure if they want to determine the appropriate amount to tip for me, then bully for them…and me. Saves me money as it will generally be less than I would have left in the first place.
$2.57. . Thats almost a gallon of gas. In Ca gas is 3.25 a gallon so im taking my gratuity and putting it in my gas tank.
lol… I just noticed that the restaurant’s phone number, manager name, & employee name is right there on the reciept…LOL! NICE!
Waffle House adds a mandatory tip to all take out orders as the waitstaff must take time away from in store customers to handle the order. If WH did not add the tip, the waitstaff could just refuse to handle the takeout order in order to devote more time to the in store paying (tipping) customers.
Seems quite fair when you think about it.
However, 15% is a full service, sit down and be served tip for many people. Adding 15% is a bit on the high side for grab and go meals.
blame this all on the fact that restaurants have the legal right to pay employees a fraction of minimum wage and expect them to live on tips.
there should be a mandatory 15% if it’s staff makes less than minimum wage. either pay your employees a fair wage or mandate a gratuity. waiters and waitresses are human too and to have to deal with $3 an hour base salary is almost slave labor. restaurants REGULARLY demand an extra hour of work from employees that don’t involve the prospect of a tip (rolling silverware, cleaning the kitchen)… that should be qualified as slave labor for that hour…
waiters/waitresses are caught in the middle of it. you never know what you’re going to make in a day. it’s an ugly feeling kissing customer ass only to be screwed on a tip.
if you don’t want to tip… get a tv dinner and STAY HOME.
BTW, a family member used the Applebees car side service the other night. Applebees claimed to have a waitstaff member dedicated to the car side service. I think an automatic tip was added to that bill as well.
@ Onouris
20% is generous, but I hardly think it’s excessive. It goes without saying that this is a tip for good service. Eating out is a luxury, but that’s not because of tips. It’s just a luxury.
@fuzzymuffins:
If mandatory tipping is allowed, then what incentive is there for a server to provide good service?
You know what is ALSO an ugly feeling? Being made to pay a tip when your server is a complete ass to you.
I also absolutely support servers making at least the standard minimum wage. I also would support having the prices go up a little.
I go out to eat for convenience, relaxation, and pleasure, not to be given the chore of figuring out the restaurant owner’s payroll for him.
@forgottenpassword: The incentive for a server to provide good service is exactly the same incentive that the rest of us have to provide good service on our jobs, moron. Of course this will make no sense to you if you don’t feel obliged to provide good service on your job.
A server making minimum wage can also be tipped, of course, if the service is above average. Some other jobs in which the worker is paid minimum wage or above also customarily get tipped, such as services provided to you when you are traveling.
There are a lot of self righteous people that post here. It’s funny. It also explains why my job sucks.
At least I almost have my degree, so I can stop dealing with you assholes on a day to day basis.
Royal Caribbean Cruise lines add 15% to every single thing you buy on the ship except jewerly. They add it to a bottle of water, they add it to the ice cream cone someone took 5 seconds to sccop out…They do it because they refuse to take responsiblity for paying their hotel division employees fair wages.
Tipping is for your Server and the Delivery driver, if you’re not serving me food at a table or bringing it to my door, forget it.
Buffet restaurants, same deal with exceptions. If you are clearing empty plates, bringing new utensils, and keeping the drinks filled, OK. Otherwise you get nothing.
I’ve seen tip lines added to receipts at Quiznos and even McDonalds. Outrageous to think Fast Food workers deserve a tip for doing their job.
Waffle House adds a mandatory tip to all take out orders as the waitstaff must take time away from in store customers to handle the order.
Not @fuzzymuffins, but to your point:
A five minute interaction in which I pay and walk out with a bag is not worthy of a tip equal to what I would give for 20+ minutes of service that requires actual attention. You want to recoup something for lost time? Fine. Call it a “Take-away charge” and add a dollar to the bill.
Ok….enlighten me. Who is the tip going to if I tip on a takeout order. Am I crazy for wanting to see the face of the person I am tipping. If I’m tipping that 15 percent automatically its going into Johnny Rockets bottom line as far as a fool like me is concerned. Help me out on this.
@speedwell:
no need to be a jerk, I have dealt with workers who provide horrible service basically because they get paid the same no matter what. I think earning a tip is the way to make sure servers do their job well.
The thing that bothers me with tis situation is that if she were paying cash, she probably wouldn’t have seen the receipt until AFTER she paid, and therefore not noticed the added gratuity.
As far as running out of certain items, my sister used to own a Johnny Rocket’s and all the items were made fresh. Nothing was to be frozen. This meant daily deliveries of meat, bread, etc. Fries were cut on premises, etc. Assuming this is still company policy, other than the root beer, I could see how this could happen.
I always figure that I should be paying less for takeout. I’m not taking up space in the restaurant, and less staff is needed to deal with me.
Takeout is not worth as much to me as a sit-down dinner. It’s not a bonus that it is convenient.
@forgottenpassword: OK, please accept my apologies for being a jerk.
Thing is, why do servers who are paid an OK wage need extra incentives from customers just to do their jobs properly? Is there something wrong with them? I work in a very high “internal customer” contact IT support position. Even if I am patient, kind, and thorough, I still don’t have the right to demand that my users supplement my pay out of their own pockets.
The fact is that if I do my job well and get many complements from people I train and assist, I get to keep my job and maybe get a yearly raise or even promoted. I may get a yearly bonus if bonuses happen to be on the table that year, but that’s more a “thanks for helping the company make a lot of money” gift than it is an individual recognition. If I screw up too many times, I may be retrained or fired. I live with this awareness. There is absolutely no reason why restaurants need not operate on the same system. The job of waiting tables needs to join the 21st century already.
@speedwell: You know that beforetips, servers make around 3 bucks an hour, right? Legally, if they don’t make enough tips to reach minimum wage, their employer is supposed to make up the difference, but I wouldn’t call that an ok wage.
@B: Yes, I know all about the lousy waitstaff minimum wage. That’s why I was careful to refer only to servers making an OK wage (a market wage, say). I was addressing the stated concerns that if paid adequately, servers would give bad service. I think better of people than that, even if most posters don’t. So my expectations, pardon me, are a little higher.
@speedwell: The problem with your argument is unless your in the mentioned California, just about no one makes a “fair market” wage.
I made more serving ice cream at a dairy queen than my fiance could make WITH TIPS some nights. Thats just retarded.
i don’t think tips should be included on the bill, but i think people should tip for takeout.
the deli/restaurant i work at (Isaac’s Deli – central PA chain), does dine-in, catering, and takeout.
i’m a tron and make 2.83 an hour (plus tips) but i also do takeout orders, which is nearly just as much work as waiting on a table. i know alot of other restaurants don’t work the same way Isaac’s does (trons do alot more than waiting tables), so it might not be right for all places.
But i hate working on takeout orders WHILE having dine-in tables, and not getting anything out of it.
@PotKettleBlack: That’s what I was thinking, which was to add a negative number. They can’t argue with it because you’re adding your own tip, plus or minus. On top of that, you could always dispute the charge with your CC company, if you charge it.
Something else, (I hope I’m not repeating this since I didn’t feel like reading the sea of comments), she could have gone over to the place and flagged down the incoming customers to notify them that they’re out of food, and to recommend a place that DOES have food and DOES NOT charge a 15% gratuity for take out orders.
@Falconfire: The problem with YOUR argument is it’s insanely one-sided. I was not addressing the issue of servers who don’t make a more acceptable wage than the current waitstaff minimum wage. Nor did I say anything about a “fair” market wage. Please take at least one remedial reading course.
I do not tip. Stupid custom.
i used to work for Johnny Rockets ( for 2 years) and I am not definding what they did, and i never did it. But Johnny Rockets automaically claims that a server gets an 8% gratuity for every check. so when you dont tip on a take out that server acually loses money when helping you. so i guess this location is just trying to make its emplyees happy because where i worked everyone hated togoes and would try to pass the phone off to another employee. if by adding a tip to my take out means that my food is ready when i get there and its how i ordered it then fine by me, but 15% is high they should have gone with a 10%. less people would care and would just sign and get on with life.
@kable2: Are you in America?
@kable2:
You must enjoy your food with phlegm.
Those who don’t care to tip have an easy solution: eat at home. There are so many food options that you don’t even need to know how to cook to have a good (OK, edible) meal at home. All you need is a microwave. Enjoy!
@PotKettleBlack: John Hargrave tried it as a part of a ZUG’s 2nd credit card prank. It didn’t work.
@dugn: Poorly written? You’re too kind. The manager hit the caps lock key and deserves to die. I would have said something like “The manager is a total jackass.”
@Falconfire: “Some nights”? So what? How’s your fiancé do on the other nights? Or on a great night? How about overall for the month? Or the year? Does he keep track of his tips and pay taxes on the full amount?
If your fiancé wants regular, guaranteed income, maybe he should get a job scooping ice cream too.
@Onouris: With all due respect, I don’t think you fully understand how things work here. Tipped employees in most states aren’t paid minimum wage.
As for taxes, US state and local sales tax is usually much lower than VAT/GSM depending on your country. It just requires some math on the customer’s part to calculate the final price.
Alright, I don’t like to spam my own site, but I wrote an article about how much tipping is mainly due to the wrong reasons. And it’s generated the most hate-mail of all of them too, mainly from people who are servers. It was written back in September and people still poke at it.
I’d like to get more comments on it though, here’s the address:
[riverstyxxx.blogspot.com]
look at the order… wish the government and state would tax the jerk a lot more because he’s going to be in hospital soon causing us all more financial pain.
everything should be more expensive for unhealthy food — taxes, gratuities, miscellaneous surcharges.
eat some veggies and stop become another medicare problem.
Ahhh Johnny Rockets. Home to some of the greasiest, most disgusting burgers I’ve ever had.
As for the tipping matter, I’ve actually had this discussion with a waitress who I went to class with. IMO, tips are earned through good service, hence the word Gratuity! I’m actually an excellent tipper. If service is good, I usually leave about 20-25%. However, I’ve left nickels or pennies for terrible service. And I’m talking really bad service, like an hour wait for water. I’ve walked out of restaurants without leaving a tip when it’s already included on the bill, and the service was awful. Tips are earned.
@shenanigrams: Nice to know you’re such an expert on dietary concerns, and that this one meal would push the submitter over the brink and into greasy, greasy cholesterol-induced… uh, death.
When was the last time you fell off the wagon again?
Okay, it feels like I’m the only one (of those who’ve commented, anyway) who parsed Carey’s post-tax bit properly.
The issue is not that they calculated the “tip” on the post-tax amount; it’s clear the used the pre-tax amount. The issue is that a “tip” that IS NOT VOLUNTARY is taxable.
The restaurant wouldn’t let the customer purchase the food without the tip, so the restaurant owes tax on it (which is supposed to be paid by the purchaser, presumably).
So the total amount should have been $17.16 + $2.57 = $19.73, PLUS sales tax on $19.73 (looks like 8%, so $1.58), totalling $21.31.
As it was, the customer was charged $21.10.
The state wants its 8% of that $2.57 “tip” — 21 cents.
If the tip were voluntary, the state wouldn’t be entitled to that money.
BTW, the other blog talking about this establishment had an apparent reply from the manager. Worth reading, if you can stomach the all-caps.
[coconutgrovegrapevine.blogspot.com]
And if you can stomach the arrogance.
@fuzzymuffins: By law, those same restaurants have to make up the difference in wage if the waiter does not make the difference in tips. But then again, why mandate a gratuity? Just pay regular wages.
@Falconfire: You really need to check the other tip “discussions” here on Consumerist. It’s not just california that don’t allow for less then minimum wage for “service industry positions dependent on tips”. Alaska and hawaii only allow two dollars under State minimum wage of 7.50 as the tip differences. And there are more examples, but I’m not going to look them up again. Not even half the states have that stupid 2.50 an hour wage.
@probablyawkward: Wrong. Waiters in every state are paid minimum wage, either by wage+tips or wage+underpaid tips+difference by employer. At minimum, in a pay period, they get paid the same as any other minimum wage worker. In EVERY state.
@probablyawkward: No I’m sure their basic wage before tips is below minimum wage, but they legally have to be paid minimum wage if their tips don’t make it up, hence the word minimum, so I just don’t see how the argument they get a crap wage works for them and not everyone else who makes just as much.
The crazy tipping of Americans makes some people actually think it’s a requirement of eating out there. I’m too tight to be giving away money unless it’s really above and beyond, though. I see people tipping just because they think they should. When I point out that the person was actually a bit of an ass and was never around, ‘ah it’s ok’. What the hell
Brain washed! Hmmm now if only I can turn that to my advantage somehow.
Papa Johns does it behind your back!
We ordered a couple of pizzas and used debit card for the order. When it arrived, we gave the delivery guy cash and signed the receipt. Later we pulled up the bank statement and noticed the Papa Johns bill had jumped 4 bucks.
In my opinion, I think the manager was tipping himself. He said “I don’t know what happened but it will be fixed by morning”.
We have NEVER used plastic for Pizza since.
I’m a waiter and to all those who say they don’t tip because society tells them to, or whatever their reasoning is, I have one simple request: tell your server before they even take your drink order that you will not be tipping them under any circumstances. If you don’t want to tip, fine. But you know damn well that your server is operating under the assumption that you are.
I live in Sydney Australia where tipping is not mandatory (and yes, waitstaff have a minimum wage here (I think it’s something like 10 or 15$ an hour).
I know that it’s a massive system to change, but with the mark up that restaurants are already making on food (here, a tiny bit of steak and 3 green beans on a massive white plate will set you back $35), I would really object to paying a further 15!% for service. I know it’s callous for me to say but I don’t want to help pay someone’s wage because the restaurant who is making an absolute fortune off me already is too stingy to pay its staff properly. In the short term I might be helping that particular waitstaff, but in the long term I am just helping the problem along. I don’t know too much about workplace relations, but how about actually helping petition for some sort of hospitality union or something to help people who work in catering rather that helping perpetuate a system where people are forced to scape and bow and smile in order to make up a large chunk of what should be part of their regular wages anyway?
We don’t always get good service here. Some waiters are crap, some waiters are good. I see my tip (when I tip, I usually round up about 20%) as my feedback as to how service was, not the meal. But if forced tips are becoming the norm, how does that help encourage good service? I think it’s a very sneaky way of doing it. I would rather have optional tipping and marked up food upfront like we do here.. at least I know what I am paying for when I walk in the door.
Huh. Annoying, but if you get to write in the total, and you put in the original amount before signing it, what could they do then?