Scott, a member of management for a retail chain, wants to share the other side of the checking-ID debate:
Your website continually runs stories about how merchants aren’t allowed to ask for ID during a credit transaction. I work on the management team at a nationwide retailer, and credit card fraud occasionally hits our location. Every so often, we are hit with something called a ‘retrieval request’ from one of the big 4 credit authorization companies (Discover, AMEX, MC, Visa). This means we have 48 hours to provide a legible signed receipt, and video evidence of my staff checking a photo ID to verify the cardholder.
If we are unable to verify that my staff checked the ID of the cardholder, we are hit with a 100% chargeback to our account. That’s right, they charge back the entire amount, because WE DIDN’T CHECK ID. Thusly, I have informed my staff to check photo ID on ALL TRANSACTIONS, as I am tired of dealing with bad debt. If a customer will not provide ID, I will not take their payment. I am not sure what merchant agreement your readers keep referencing, but this simply isn’t true. How can I not check ID, per their agreement, and yet still be held liable for passing a stolen credit card? I would rather lose a customer than lose thousands of dollars in chargebacks every month. Just my two cents.
Update: See this rebuttal—with actual documentation instead of just opinion—sent in by another manager.
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(Photo: Brett L.)
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@eskimo81:
That’s very nice. You’re breaking a legal agreement with your credit card companies, however.
I will not show you my ID when I purchase with a credit card. If you refuse to sell to me, I will file a complaint with Visa. They will slap you down.
Check the card signature against the receipt. That’s your fraud protection. If you don’t like that, don’t take credit cards.
@TinkishDelight: Regardless of the ID for purchases issue, it’s probably not a good idea to be walking around with no identification…
This is a hot topic and we need to get some investigative journalism involved to reveal both sides of this puzzle. Just my opinion, but it looks like we are taking a wiki approach here and it would be nice to have the big four chime in with an official statement. Plus, is it not possible that local/state law differences may preclude the optimal situation the big four suggest in their agreements?
In any case, just go to Guadalajara in Mexico, and use your CC. Every average joe manning the register will ask for ID. All retail down here has a valid photo ID as a requirement for accepting CC.
They can’t make you show ID because an ID is not required to recieve a credit card.
@Happy13178:
If the consumer refuses to show ID, I’m sure the retailer can simply exercise their right to “refuse service to anyone” based on some other minor factor. Just because the CC companies won’t let them refuse a transaction based on this, doesn’t mean that they can’t find another reason not to complete it if they don’t want to.
@StevieD:
oops, sorry. you really have no idea what you’re talking about here. the whole point of signing your card when you receive it like the goddamn sticker tells you to do is so that someone else can’t sign it. but guess what – even if you don’t comply & someone else signs it, the merchant is STILL NOT LIABLE!
see, there’s these things called interchange fees. in the pre-VISA days, these were typically called extortion fees. the merchant pays the fees & as long as they hold up their side of the agreement (see afore-mentioned “easy-to-follow steps”), they are not liable for a fraudulent transaction. with VISA’s zero liability policy, the cardholder is also not liable. VISA is never liable. guess who that leaves? if you guessed the card issuer, you were right! they receive the bulk of the extortion…err…interchange fees (VISA skims a bit off the top like a good racketeer) & these are designed to offset the cost of fraudulent transactions. take a percentage of every transaction to cover the bad ones. sound familiar? it should – it’s how most insurance works.
@StevieD:
radioshack, for one.
I’ve worked at about every store in the mall there is (thank God I escaped to a cubicle). By far, the worst group is the people who leave the signature line blank. BLANK! They figure that way they HAVE to ask for ID. Guess what? The card is nto valid! At least write SEE ID or CHECK ID on it with a Sharpie people! Some dummy can steal your card and sign it any way they please and then what good does a blank card do you? Like a clerk working for minimum wage and even lower appreciation cares about credit card safety.
Funny there is a thing called a PIN. They should institute those for credit cards also, instead of a stupid signature agreeing to something I already agreed to.
Also they could put your picture on the card as one of mine does. (Love it when they still want to see ID.) If they did those 2 things offline CC fraud would pretty much go away.
Now I AM confused. I, too, heeded the advice of many financial experts both online and at my credit union, and wrote “ASK FOR ID” inplace of my signature on the back of my Visa card. As others have said, I want them to ask but they usually don’t. However, I got stern lectures from the guy behind the counter at the U.S. Post Office – twice! He claimed that the information I had been given was faulty, and implied I was lucky he agreed to accept my credit card for payment. I finally wrote my signature, very lightly, across the Sharpie-penned “ASK FOR ID.” You can HARDLY see it, but it seemed to satisfy Mr. USPS. But now I’m wondering – DOES writing that instead of your signature invalidate your card?
@Michael Belisle: Refusing to show ID is in no way suspicious.
A similar situation is that it doesn’t make you a likely terrorist if you refuse to show ID at the airport. It just makes you someone who probably cares about privacy more than most. The difference there is that they are empowered not to let you fly as a result (by secret, classified “laws”). But I don’t think they can arrest you, even at the airport, for refusing to show ID, because it is not suspicious just to refuse to show identification.
I also do that, since I was once a victim of credit card theft, now none of my cards has a signature, instead I have written with a marker pen, “CHECK ID”, and when they ask for ID verification I thank them, if they don’t check the card I ask them to check the card again and tell me what it says. It’s a good idea to not sign your card and to allow the store to request it. No big brother here, just common sense in a world where ID theft is rampant.
Someone at a credit card company needs to confirm/deny the whole “we need video evidence of you checking the ID”.
It’s never bothered me to show ID and it won’t unless the cashier tries to record any information off of my ID (Apple thread). That’s never happened with my card though; that’s the kind of bullshit they insist on doing if you have to write a check. A commentor in the Apple thread said that someone tried to make them show ID when using their card as debit. This would also make me upset because debit cards require a PIN. The “I” stands for Identification. Since I’m the only person that’s supposed to know it the PIN should be enough to prove it’s my card.
I don’t understand why people think not signing a card protects your identity. Please fill me in.
@Michael Belisle: that prank is hilarious. i also recommend his superbowl prank… that one is incredible.
as far as all of the privacy rights people out there who want to protect their identities by not providing ID… i’m just not feeling you. if you are so concerned about ‘the man’ knowing about your spending habits, don’t use a credit card. do you really think that information is going to some database maintained by monks? i don’t have data on this, but i would imagine more ID theft originates in the customer service/data management departments of credit card companies where they have access to your personal information for much longer than the 10 seconds it takes to write down your DL #, than in stores where they have but a few seconds.
and about those commercials that show the person who does NOT use his visa holding up the line and making life awful for everyone else. i see this as security loss in the name of convenience.
so, don’t show your ID… but don’t complain here when you get a bill for something you didn’t buy and visa doesn’t rectify it in 10 minutes or less. 6 months of disputes vs. 10 seconds of flashing your picture ID? the choice is obvious to me.
@morganlh85: I sometimes run out to the supermarket with just my card, since its only a block or two away.
@threeoutside: here’s the thing: it is advantageous to the card issuer if you sign ASK FOR ID or something similar. if they are in possession of the card & can prove that the signature on the slip doesn’t match the signature on the card, they can file a “compliance” case with VISA. this type of case means that the merchant didn’t comply with VISA rules. if VISA rules against the merchant, they will be liable for the purchase amount PLUS stiff penalties for non-compliance.
so, in short, if you sign ASK FOR ID on your card & sign something else on the slip (& the merchant accepts it for payment), you are passing fraud liability from the card issuer to the merchant.
smart managers will train their cashiers to follow the acceptance procedure to the letter to avoid this type of cost. stupid managers invest in surveillance equipment instead of employee training, thinking that will save them. WRONG!
My BofA card has my picture on it. But of course, I can’t use it now because I opted out of the rate increase. Otherwise, I will gladly show my ID when paying with a credit card. It’s painless.
All I have to say Is I refuse to show my ID for any purchase where the government doesn’t require it PERIOD!!!!!!!!! I refuse to have any one take a copy of my ID for anything Period!!!!!!!! I have be the Victim of identity theft when I was in my early Twenties because I allowed some Retail jockey take my information at a Future shop as condition of a sale for using a credit card. It took my 6 years to clear it up. It almost cost me my job in the military due to the credit issues.
IT IS MY IDENTY and I will not give my business to any place that treats me like a thief and ask for ID even for cash purchase. I will not show ID or give personal information as a condition of completing a sale where I’m giving them MY money.
I run my own business and I will not treat my clients like thieves. Yes I’ve had some one use a fake credit card but it is the risk “I” take for giving my customers and clients the convince of using a credit card which benefits me by more business being conducted.
Some of you people are sheep and until it happens to you will not know the difficulties that affect you by it. Not being able to buy a car, a home. Having to go in person to pay cash to take pay for your flight to take vacation because you can’t even get a credit card. Leaving a huge deposit at a hotel for the same reason. Not being able to rent a car so changing and planning where you go on vacation because of it so you wont need one.
How many people freely give their ID over to a video rental store, a job application before their even hired? An apartment rental credit check before they even are show the place or chose to live there. Many it seams on here is comfortable in showing it in a retail place where a minimum wage person works the counter with little training and incentive to protect the information you just handed over to them. Your school, your work, ect ect ect ect. What are they doing with YOUR personal information? Who has access to it? What are they doing to protect it? People freely give up so much of their personal information that they are risking some thing more valuable then any thing they could own and that’s their Identity!
Go a head an be sheep’s and the good retail customer that the industry has moulded you in to being. I will continue to protect my own interests and question the practices of these companies and will take my business else where if I don’t feel comfortable with how the treat me ore any of the personal information that I chose to give them.
From big to small there are data breaches happening from the Government to local fitness centers loosing computes and data with your information on it. People information that was so freely given and trusted to some one else is being lost on a regular basis. Think about that the next time some one asks for your Drivers licence and SSN and ask why do they need it, what are they going to do with it and how are they protecting this information.
Think about what would happen if your identity is taken by some one else and you have credit so poor that you couldn’t open a checking account. Think about the next five years can be like. Need to move and rent a new place, good luck , need a new phone line , cell phone, utilities, All the convinces of having a credit card, booking a flight, registering on line for that night school coerce, buying a few downloaded songs. Registering your kids on line for a community program. The list gets very long and difficult to deal with and it’s not some fantasy it’s happening to people every day.
Most credit cards are not valid if they are not signed.
@yesteryear: I don’t know where you’re getting this stuff about it taking “6 months” to file a fraud complaint. Like I said in the other thread…I’ve done it twice and spent about a grand total of 5 minutes on it. They only mildly tried to resist, by asking me if I could have made the purchases and forgotten. I just said “absolutely not. I’m 100% positive this is fraud”. And they just instantly credited my account, re-issued me a new card number, and that was the last I heard of it. Maybe it’s worse with different issuers, but my two were with two different credit card companies and they both handled it virtually the same way.
You do have a bit stronger point about ID theft being more likely elsewhere. This is probably true. But it doesn’t mean that we should just not care about minimizing the release of our personal information. The best security practice is always to limit the release of any sensitive information ONLY to people who “need to know”. A clerk or store does not need to know my DOB, DL#, address, or any of the other data that is on my driver’s license in order to verify and process my credit card transaction according to credit card rules. Therefore, I do not show them my ID.
I don’t think the problem is so much checking ID, as much as in the case of the previous Apple story, recording personal information into a store’s database. There is no reason for a retailer to keep a copy of a driver’s license number or home address.
@ju_ju_eyeball: EXCELLENT deduction. Visa/MasterCard companies are not your bank per say; they are the processing houses’ that work on behalf of the consumer via the consumers bank (the card).
Being “middle-men”, they have legally figured out the way to cover their butts, never lose a dime, and force the onus of finance on either the consumer OR the merchant, no matter which way the transaction goes (valid or fraudulent).
I always refuse to show ID when using my mastercard for transactions where the merchant handles my card. Why? Because with the number on the front, the number on the back, and the data printed on my state-issued ID card, they could impersonate me in online transactions. I take other precautions with my card (spending limit that can’t be exceeded, etc), but preventing someone from having the required data to screw me saves me time on the phone to the credit card company later on. I value my personal time, and dislike wasting it because some retail store clerk somewhere has good memory and more greed than ethics.
When I used to work at a bank I would get idiots all the time who didn’t want to show their ID. They would ask why or refuse. WE HANDLE YOUR MONEY, THATS WHY! Then they come bitchin when hit by identity fraud.
In my American Express terms and conditions, it plainly says “Your American Express card is all the ID you need.”
@xamarshahx: That’s quite a bit different. In that case, it’s to protect the customers’ own money. In the retail situation with a credit card, I benefit in no way by showing my ID.
Consumerist,
I’m a big fan and daily reader and all that, but you sort of dropped the ball with this post. You should have called Visa to clarify the ID situation, or to at least comment on this retailer’s accusations. I don’t think it’s fair to run stories like this without asking each party for a comment.
Check ID. It is such a little thing but can prevent a whole lot. I have had my CC stolen–thousands charged at Bloomingdales. Another friend, card stolen and within an hour hundreds charged at the Gap. A third person had her purse stolen and charged at a local grocery store. Someone I know even had a payroll check stolen and cashed.
Credit card theft is not a victimless crime. It is a form of identity theft.
Simple. The credit card companies care about their asses, not anyone elses. They don’t want you to check id because that might slow down the sale, or cause a “sale abort”.
They also don’t want to take the liability for fraudulent charges. This is their system to make sure they get to pocket maximum $$$$, by screwing the merchant.
Acronym alert!
You’re lucky that they even allowed you to pay without a C&P.
@RvLeshrac: What’s a C&P?
@gingerCE:
It was a credit card. Assuming you reported it promptly, your liability would max out at $50, and could be zero.
Checking ID helps the store – it has zero benefit for you.
What I find most interesting about the “asking for ID” phenomenon is that I never get asked for ID when buying high ticket items, like computers or televisions. Buying a $10 t-shirt at Steve and Barry’s? EVERY TIME!
@xamarshahx: I bank with Wamu. One time a women in front of me was withdrawing (no deposit) $700. How do I know? She asked me if she filled out the form correctly. I watched as she got to the teller. The teller asked for ID. The woman had none. The teller asked for her debit card. The woman had none. The woman did have a Wamu checkbook but she only flashed the cover, not opening the checkbook to show the checks. The teller hesitated, then gave her the cash. My jaw almost dropped.
Thankfully another time two people were trying to withdraw money from a bank account using a business card as ID. Just a regular business card with no picture, just words. The teller told them he could not accept a business card as ID. Thankfully they were turned away.
@Happy13178: I appreciate being asked for ID, since my card has been stolen in the past, and the clerk has no idea whether I’m the card’s actual owner or not. I get irritated if they DON’T check. Especially considering I have “SEE ID” written on the back of my card…
@Happy13178: 99 times out of ten you’re annoying a valid customer, but if that 1 out of 100 is a person using a stolen credit card that gets charged back, you’re giving 1% of your goods out for free. Having had multiple of my cards stolen, I’d be glad to show you my ID. I don’t care; I’m me, and don’t plan to steal any cards.
I’ve also worked in retail management and gotten these requests; however, I have never been asked to provide proof that we checked ID, only the signed receipt.
Its weird…I’ve lived in both New Jersey and Delaware…In Delaware EVERYONE checks your ID. Even restaurants. I don’t think I’ve ever been asked for an ID at some retailer in NJ
I don’t believe this guy at all. While I was working in retail, I once asked a lady for ID, and she got all snippy and said I don’t need it. When I asked a manager what to do, he said it wasn’t our problem. Even if the card was stolen, the store was still going to get the money, so no I couldn’t demand ID. In short, not our problem, it’s for the person whose card was stolen to deal with it. Plus, not every business has video surveillance, and I have never heard a manager go “Oh we gotta check our security tapes again. Retrieval request. Yep. Oh it was JOHN who didn’t check for ID – that’s a write-up!” How would you even go about that?? It’s not like the tape is close-captioned with the name of each customer. And surveillance cameras are low-quality picture – you can barely tell what’s going on.
The more I think through this, the more I think BS. This sounds like someone’s trying to argue that laws protecting the “”"RIGHT”"” for people to not show ID with their credit card really does help the consumer rather than the store the stolen card was used at.
My opinion on this is just because it’s a law doesn’t mean it’s correct. All you people yelling about us “sheep” showing our ID are nuts. To me, you’re the sheep, blindly following a law because it touts you have RIGHTS and you like that word, and you never look at the pros and cons of it.
@jenny79: Another reason to get a DL as early as possible is for insurance reasons. Most, if not all, insurance companies take the amount of years you’ve been licensed for into consideration when determining your rates.
I have a photo id bank card with visa option. Very handy, no one asks for ID when I use it.
I don’t really understand what the big deal is with providing ID to show you’re the person whose name is on the credit card. Why is that a problem?..
I apologize if someone has already said this (too lazy to read all posts). Wouldn’t the easiest answer be to have your photo ID directly on the CC?
If it’s an ID theft situation you’re worried about, don’t… unless you’re checking into a hotel, where you usually have to provide your address, phone #, etc.
That’s where you’re most likely to get your ID stolen. It’s a combination of having all that information in one place, plus low-paid & low-skill non-security-vetted (usually) labor with loads of time on their hands. If you think the cashier at Wal-Mart is going to remember all the info on your ID card, may I suggest a tin-foil hat?
@LEA9017: Is it that difficult to show your ID with every CC transaction? What if you have an older ID that looks like it could be fake? Is it that difficult to show your ID and your passport, just in case, with every CC transaction? But what if the passport is fake? Is it that difficult to show your ID, your passport, and your birth certificate with every CC transaction? Oh, but what if you don’t have one (foreign born, fire, natural disaster, etc)? Is it that difficult to show your ID, your passport, your birth certificate, and/or leave a DNA sample? Surely nobody would have an objection to that!
I have *rarely* been asked for ID. I think the exception was when I was carrying an old card and my signature was kinda faded and smudged. But after reading the Consumerist, I’m just *waiting* for some retail drone to ask for my ID so I can say, “no thank you”. Let the games begin!
When I worked retail, I always checked ID on every transaction, no exceptions. Even when I was on comission.
Conincidentally, I caught more instances of fake and stolen credit cards, IDs, and checks than all other employees combined over a 1 year period.
Imagine that.
@johnva: No, they can’t arrest you. They’re supposed to subject you to an extra search [www.tsa.gov] . But I imagine they won’t be nice about it if you have your ID in your pocket and are just refusing to take it out.
We may not find it suspicious, but I’m not surprised that some merchants (and people in this forum) do and chose to refuse the transaction instead of processing without an ID.
Deciding whether a situation is suspicious is a matter of personal opinion. But the agreement with Visa is not.
Sounds fair to me. I think people are far too paranoid about “cashiers with photographic memories”…if they hold on to your cards too long, then just tell em that you’ll be keeping a tight watch on your account, so no funny business. They only go after the money of idiots anyways. Less trouble that ways.
I actually get upset when I pay with a credit card and people DON’T ask for my ID. Just goes to show that someone could have stolen my card and they wouldn’t even notice.