Scott, a member of management for a retail chain, wants to share the other side of the checking-ID debate:
Your website continually runs stories about how merchants aren’t allowed to ask for ID during a credit transaction. I work on the management team at a nationwide retailer, and credit card fraud occasionally hits our location. Every so often, we are hit with something called a ‘retrieval request’ from one of the big 4 credit authorization companies (Discover, AMEX, MC, Visa). This means we have 48 hours to provide a legible signed receipt, and video evidence of my staff checking a photo ID to verify the cardholder.
If we are unable to verify that my staff checked the ID of the cardholder, we are hit with a 100% chargeback to our account. That’s right, they charge back the entire amount, because WE DIDN’T CHECK ID. Thusly, I have informed my staff to check photo ID on ALL TRANSACTIONS, as I am tired of dealing with bad debt. If a customer will not provide ID, I will not take their payment. I am not sure what merchant agreement your readers keep referencing, but this simply isn’t true. How can I not check ID, per their agreement, and yet still be held liable for passing a stolen credit card? I would rather lose a customer than lose thousands of dollars in chargebacks every month. Just my two cents.
Update: See this rebuttal—with actual documentation instead of just opinion—sent in by another manager.
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“LEAKS: Amex Document Shows Proof of ID Check Is Not Required For Chargebacks”
(Photo: Brett L.)
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Perhaps I’m being over simplistic, but why don’t more card companies just issue cards with photo and signature on the credit card itself? I know I’m missing something here but if the photo and signature are part of the card design itself this would:
- reduce showing a photo id at checkout
- put the burden squarely on the retailer to confirm that the photo matches the user
- signatures are required to on physical applications for most cards so that’s easy and passport photo places I’m sure wouldn’t mind the extra income (of course Consumerist readers make their own passport photos)
- there is plenty of technology out there (in the personal id card space) that can reproduce these onto “blank” credit cards
- since no other personal info (drivers license #, address, etc) in theory this would be more secure
- in theory fraudulent applications could be cut down as they would have a photo record for each application
the only hole really comes when the consumer swipes the card themself, ie self-checkout/gas stations, but even that could be limited if the photo and signature could somehow be encoded on the stripe as well so it could appear on the merchant’s screen…or really sophisticated software might even be able to match digitally captured signatures to the encoded signature for an extra level of security.
my old BoA check-card had this feature (oddly my new one does not), can someone help poke holes in this idea?
The problem is that fake photo ID is really easy to make. As in, i’m sitting in Tacoma, Washington right now and i would put good money after bad that i could have a credible-looking fake ID that said my name was Steve Jobs in, oh, two hours. Not only are we different genders, not only do i probably weigh 100 pounds more than him and am three inches taller…but if i were to have Steve’s billfold (i don’t!), every merchant which insists on ID would be clowned.
Again, i object much less to CONSISTENT and POSTED policies of checking ID. The Apple Store, the Virgin Megastore, Amoeba Music, some Denny’s, etc…they all have this. It’s the game of “suspicious transactions” that bother me, because we all know how that pans out. If you’re only asking people who you don’t approve of for ID, chances are you’re going to claim it’s “suspicious”, no? I’m “suspicious” of dumb rules that don’t protect anyone and prove to harrass people of social groups that a cashier finds undesirable, since by brown immigrant queer butt seems to be rather undesirable to lots and lots of cashiers.
thats a lie about the video proof. ALl VISA/MC asks for is a signed receipt. IF the video thing was true, then all those other mom-and-pop stores that accept CC and dont have cameras would be screwed.
@peetahvw: It has been done before. And studies have been made that concluded that it was ineffective and time and time again, many cashiers have ignored the photo printed on the card.
It also didn’t help that many issuers dropped the photo card feature due to its lack of popularity.
And oddly enough, I feel that even if they had those anyway, the same cashiers and merchants would ask for ID anyway.
On the whole, it’s really simple though. Treat me nicely and do what you’re supposed to do and you’ll get an easy-maintenance, loyal customer for life. Turn me down thinking that I’m not worth your time and you’ll earn more money from those that will comply with your twisted rules and I’ll be on your a$$. I’ll make it worth your time plus interest.
I’ve only had to do that once with one store because they decided they wanted to take a step further (I have time on my hands) and hopefully, I’ll never have to do it again.
@ RenegadeBarista– like I said, the application fees for drivers licenses/permits/non driver licenses can be very expensive. Some people just can’t afford to shell out 50 bucks or more for an ID. And not all libraries have photo IDs. Also, some people may live in a rural area where it is difficult for them to reach a DMV(the sort of people who drive 3 hrs each way once a month to do all their shopping in the nearest town).
I *never* show ID if I use a credit card. For those of you who are proud to show the minimum wage clerk, your drivers license with your drivers license number, your date of birth, and your address on it; perhaps you should go view the current stats on identity theft.
Most of the time the clerk is simply being an a$$ in the first place. And as for the evil credit cards companies may not pay…most retail stores dont even require a signature for under $25.00…that is how worried they are about it.
@ Jenny79– thanks for the advice!
@azntg: I hear you – but isn’t that just poor training and the companies not giving it enough time to be adapted by the general public? i’m sure if the major issuers moved to a photo + signature printed on the card itself as a standard, and did it for 5-10 years (or however long the standard expiration period is to ensure every user of their card at least automatically received a new card with photo + signature) it would “stick” I guess I don’t understand why they killed off the program…
@peetahvw: I would be inclined to agree if we lived in an ideal world. But alas, as I’m sure you know, ideals and reality are (sometimes) mutually exclusive. The industry can stick to their guns, but the general public and companies may choose not cooperate and vice versa.
In the case of the photo credit cards, it was a bit of both. In my opinion, it was a good idea which was taken on somewhat half-heartedly by the creditors (anything less than a permanent industry standard basically means death on a whim) and virtually neglected by the cardholders and clerks (either ignored outright or used for sentimentality purposes, etc.).
I believe Bank of America (on their debit and some credit cards) and Citibank (on some credit cards) still offer the Photo card feature.
Truth be told, I think the industry to invest in more security improvements into the cards. For example, in most of Europe and in Canada (slowly phasing in for the Interac network), they use the “Chip and PIN” system. Overall, for the time being, it is relatively secure and miles more secure than the magnetic stripe and sign concept. Of course, there are problems such as: “What happens if your card is stolen and the thief actually knows the PIN?” or the vestige of the swipe and sign on the card, etc. It’s hard to live in this world, isn’t it?
@Happy13178:
:99 times out of 100, the consumer you’re asking for ID is completely legitimate and won’t appreciate being treated like a thief.
It seems that you don’t pay attention to the people in line around you. Almost everyone I know feels that stores should be checking id with checks and credit cards. Every time someone asks for my ID with my credit card, I thank them for making sure if my card is ever stolen, it won’t be used at that store.
@Vandon: Ever heard of a fake ID? It’s really not hard to make one, especially if you only have to fool some cashier.
Even when clerks “check” your ID, many times they are not doing a thorough job. I remember several years ago when I was 17, going to the store with my father’s CC to purchase something (with his permission), and handing the clerk a Platinum Visa card, being asked for ID, handing them my ID with a name that did not match the CC and being able to make the purchase.
Other times, I have gone into a store, grabbed my wife’s CC, been asked to show ID and been able to make the purchase even though the names again did not match.
Showing an ID is not an effective protection for the consumer, it is however a protection for the retailer.
@winter_in_asia:
They can certainly exercise “we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason”, but there are limitations. It is actually UNLAWFUL to do so depending on the reason. If the patronage by disabled customers are small enough, the business many find it economically favorable to not make the building ADA accessible, then pull the “we reserve the right to refuse anyone for ANY reason”. No, this would be unlawful.
Do you remember Denny’s store that was threatened with lawsuit and settled for exercising racial profiling by requiring pre-pay at employees’ discretion?
Using that excuse for not letting them get away with laying their own rule that conflicts with Visa or MC policies is in bad taste and will result in their acceptance privilege being revoked for discriminating against card users (as opposed to cash users) and too many “this merchant doesn’t accept my card, yet displays Visa or MC logo”.
Anyways, if the cashier doesn’t understand why it’s a big deal to show ID, ask the same question in return. For my protection, I want your name and home address and driver’s license number to help assist in investigation in case I become a victim of identity theft.
@Thorny:
this is the exactly the type of person that sparks the big issue with the debate in the first place. If people didn’t react negativiley about being ID-ed then there would be no issue. This is 2008 – you have to change with the times and whip it out — it helps protect YOU and the Retailer and the CC company. By making it a personal issue and getting pissed off because the 20 yr old girl working behind the counter doesn’t trust you is just sad. I worked high end retail around the years of 04-06 pampered bitchy ladies would get upset and be VERY RUDE to sales associates when you ask them for their ID – because they think you are doubting that they “have money” or how Thorny puts it… you don’t “trust” her. That is NOT the case… we have camera’s on us and endless meetings about how we now have to start ID-ing people and it’s really uncomfortable for salespeople because you are so NOT understanding of any of it. Trust me I don’t want to ask you….I really really don’t- IT”S MY JOB…don’t make it so personal! It’s obvious that these women have never worked in the industry and are spoiled brats. ♥♥ Now on the other side to be understanding towards these women… I assume that she must not be a regular customer or if she was I wouldn’t ask for her ID ( probably because I already have every detail of her life on my screen anyway- and the camera hovering over me can see that) . But she also acts like this because it’s a NEW thing for her that we have only started doing recently and she doesn’t do well with change. Well hey GET OVER IT! I hope if someone steals your CC that they get asked for ID…you don’t think about that though. I doubt this problem of women getting upset happens at normal places like Target… I assume most of the attitude comes from your higher end places..saks..nordis…neimans…bloomies..etc…big freaking babies these pampered women are.
@eskimo81: If you want the benefits of accepting credit cards, and you have agreed to the terms and conditions of the credit card company NOT to deny a sale based on a customer’s choice not to show you ID, then you need to comply with the agreement you entered into with the credit card company. Making up policies in violation of that agreement won’t fly, buddy.
Being a merchant gives you special rights to override any contract you want the benefits of but won’t step up to the plate on your end, eh? Stop accepting credit cards or stop violating the terms of the transaction, thief.