Legally Blind Woman Sues Fast Food Restaurants For Rudeness

A legally blind New York woman sued several fast food restaurants for ridiculing her when she asked for help reading their menus, but a federal judge threw out the suit on the grounds that “ADA laws don’t regulate ‘rudeness or insensitivity’ of workers.” Last week, however, an appeals court overturned that ruling and now the suit—” believed to be the first of its kind—could go before a jury this year.”

Camarillo said annoyed workers served other customers before reading her just a partial list of their offerings. Camarillo can read large print when she holds it close, but can’t make out most menus.

During a visit to Burger King, employees “laughed and stared” and pointed her in the direction of the men’s room when she asked for a bathroom, she claims.

At Taco Bell, a cashier told her to wait until the rest of the customers had ordered.

Here’s what the appeals court had to say about the matter:

“Put simply, Camarillo cannot experience full and equal enjoyment of defendants’ services if she is unable to access the list of the services available to her,” the appeals court said.

“While restaurants are not necessarily required to have on hand large print menus that Camarillo would be able to read, they are required to ensure that their menu options are effectively communicated to individuals who, like Camarillo, are legally blind,” the judges wrote.

(Thanks to Jim!)

“Fast food employees mocked a blind woman who needed help reading menu” [Daily News]
(Photo: _e.t)

Comments

Edit Your Comment

  1. darkened says:

    While I personally think some accommodations for minorities are too extreme in the vein of political correctness accommodating a legally blind person by reading them the menu is very clearly not. Requiring a small business to spend $10,000s to construct a handicap accessible ramp / lift etc, is imo.

  2. pda_tech_guy says:

    Well, I dont condone the rudeness, but this lady seems like on of those really annoying ladies that we encounter every now and then. sounds to me like a stupid reason for lawsuit. Lets all head down to the Postal office or the DMV, those people are sure to be rude, then we can collect our money!

  3. B says:

    It’s only discrimination if the employees treated her differently, so the fast food company just has to prove they’re rude to all customers, regardless of ability. Not that hard a case for them, really.

  4. madanthony says:

    Hmm. The compassionate part of me wants her to get service.

    The impatient part of me, however, is sympathetic to the idea of serving the other people in line before reading her the entire menu. I would hate to be in line behind her while they are reading her the entire menu. I eat fast food because it’s, well, fast.

  5. winter_in_asia says:

    The first quote makes it sound like she was wandering from restaurant to restaurant to see what people would do to her. If that even remotely resembles how she explained it to the judge, I can see why it got thrown out initially.

    Unfortunately, people are jerks. It’s something we all have to deal with. The difference is that the average consumer has no recourse but to talk to the manager and inform him or her that they will not be patronizing their establishment any longer. Using the ADA to sue a /fast food joint for being jerks/ is just stupid.

  6. shufflemoomin says:

    Most people know what most fast food restaurants offer. You don’t go into McDonalds and ask for some lobster. Wouldn’t it just be easier for the woman to know what she wants and asks for it. Who actually reads menus in Fast Food places, anyway?

  7. friendlynerd says:

    This all seems like it would have been highly avoidable if they just had a large print menu they could hand her. Not only would it be easy and cheap to produce, it wouldn’t hold up other customers in the line. Seriously, $10 at Kinko’s could have held off this lawsuit.

  8. I have no doubt that she suffered hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of pain and suffering because of this experience.

  9. savdavid says:

    When you pay teenagers minimum wage to flip burgers you are not going to get the most refine, educated and empathetic people to work for you. On the other hand, the woman should bring someone with her when she goes out. If she thinks it is rude to have kids laugh at her, she should think about her rudeness to the poor souls behind her in line having to wait while she is read the menu.

  10. mmcnary says:

    The last time I was in McDonalds, they had a sign explaining that braille menus were available… I wonder why she didn’t use that menu.

  11. Phipps6505 says:

    My wife is legally blind. It’s impossible for her to read the signs, and she’s very grateful if there happens to be a large print menu handy. If she was out by herself and asked someone for help with the menu, I don’t think that would be an unreasonable accomodation.

    When there isn’t a large print menu available, we usually stand out of the line and I read it aloud to her. It’s terribly embarrassing for her, but if it’s someplace she hasn’t been or isn’t familiar with the menu, it’s what we have to do. And yes, ignorant employees can be jerks about it.

  12. MissPeacock says:

    @friendlynerd: I thought that most fast food places had these already. Seems like they also have menus with only pictures for those who are illiterate. I could be wrong, though.

  13. full.tang.halo says:

    Once again why the ADA is a deeply flawed piece of law. You can’t make people be nice and love everyone, sorry but there are people who are asses and you just have to deal with it. If you don’t like the service dont go there, dont like what is on the radio there is a button to stop it, tv’s yea there’s a button for that too. And as to not offend anything less than everyone, I hate you all, I hope all the bad things in life happen to “_____” your name here, and no one else, but to everyone too. :)

  14. DMDDallas says:

    Should the restaurant be obligated to read the entire menu to her, at the expense of other customers waiting in line, if that is what she wanted?

  15. Phipps6505 says:

    My wife is legally blind. It’s impossible for her to read the signs in fast food restaurants. If there’s a large print menu available, she’s very grateful. If there is not, I generally read the menu to her. We stand out of the line (if there is one). It’s terribly embarrassing, but we don’t have a choice. If she was out by herself, I don’t think it would be unreasonable to ask an employee for help, particularly if she waited for her turn in line.

  16. Phipps6505 says:

    @MissPeacock: try finding them. Most places we go don’t have them readily available. One of the reasons my wife likes to eat at Panera is that there’s a printed menu available when she walks in the door, and she can look at it before we even set foot near the counter.

  17. snoop-blog says:

    this is a s stupid lawsuit. suing someone for being rude? its f-ing new york! get real. if you want friendliness, move down south and get some of that southern hospitality. if i sued everytime someone was rude to me, i wouldn’t be able to stay out of court.

    did she get the menu read to her? ……yes

    did she order and pay money to them?……yes

    sounds like to me if she felt it was so rude that she would have to sue, she shouldn’t patron those places. get real, fast food? if you want more service, get prepared to pay more money.

  18. arch05 says:

    @darkened: You think it’s unreasonable to make a business accessible to the handicapped? You’re cold-blooded man, cold-blooded.

  19. DeltaPurser says:

    Sounds like this lady was just “looking” (get it?! looking… blind person..) for something to sue about. For crying out loud: what do you need to read at Burger King?!?!?!??!?!???!! You want ONE or TWO patties? End of discussion… Next!

  20. DeltaPurser says:

    @Phipps6505: Good point… Perhaps if the blind person told the cashier that s/he had poor vision, the cashier would be more sympathetic than if someone just walks up and asks to have the menue read off to them… That would tick me off tooo.

  21. snoop-blog says:

    SERIOUS BUT PROBABLY STUPID QUESTION: if you can read large print up close, shouldn’t you be able to read period if you got some glasses? i’m legally blind as well and it doesn’t take much to classify you as legally blind. despite being legally blind without my glasses, with them i have better than 20/20 vision. the wording of the article may be trying to have you believe she is blind, when in fact, she just needs glasses.

  22. friendlynerd says:

    @snoop-blog:

    Unless you’re black or gay. Then the South won’t work out so well for you.

  23. ClayS says:

    If she were suing one restaurant for an incident of rudeness, I could understand. But several? Possible that she was poorly treated in all cases, but maybe there is something she is doing to contribute to the mistreatment.

  24. jaredharley says:

    It looks like she’s missing her left eye in the linked article. I don’t like how they didn’t cover how exactly she’s legally blind.

  25. ThinkerTDM says:

    There will come a day that everyone here reading this *will* need extra accommodations- maybe you will walk too slow. Maybe you won’t be able to read smaller print. Maybe you won’t be able to hear so well. It’s pretty much guaranteed. So shut up about how people inconvenience you, because one day you will be that person who is slowing everyone down.
    However, suing maybe a little extreme- maybe. What the manager should have done is get another pimple faced moron from the back to read the menu to the lady, or even done it himself. I bet you he was either in his office, or talking to his team of idiots.
    Then again- bad service is a given when going to a fast food place.

  26. Falconfire says:

    @snoop-blog: From what I can tell she is the true definition of legally blind, and not what it became to dumb it down for stupid people who wanted handicap placards.

    By the current definition, Im legally blind too, and glasses are strong enough to correct my vision, but my ex-girlfriends mother truly was legally blind, she can see, but even with corrective glasses large print items had to be held up 2 inches from her face because they didnt make corrective lesses strong enough to help her beyond seeing shapes of color, which is what I see without glasses on.

    That being said, thats no excuse for being a rude piece of shit, which is all these employees where. Unfortunately as exhibited by the comments here, we live in a society that makes excuses for teenage punks who work at these stores and are allowed to act like asses with no repercussions, while we criminalize a blind woman.

    Almost makes you wish chain gangs still existed.

  27. Rando says:

    These people love using their disadvantages to take advantage of us.

  28. MaliBoo Radley says:

    @mmcnary:

    Maybe she couldn’t read the sign that offered a braille menu …

  29. pastabatman says:

    @DeltaPurser:

    is that what happened? She just walked up, and without giving any reason just said “read the menu for me”. please.

    Her deformed left eye wasn’t any indicator either eh?

    I agree 100% with Savdavid above. You want kids running your shop you get what you pay for. No caring about job, no foresight and adolescent behavior. plain and simple.

    They were rude? so sending blind women to the mens room is rude? Not callous and miserable?

    Your waiting in line longer not because of her (and so what) but because the STAFF is STUPID.

    to the braille comment – she’s legally blind. she can read. why would she know braille?

    jeez, hell hath no fury like the consumerist commenter waiting in line for a Wopper.

  30. DMDDallas says:

    @ThinkerTDM: and when that time comes, I’m more than happy to yield to the younger people instead of making them wait. I also wouldn’t demand that the menu be read out to me.

  31. balthisar says:

    @arch05: What percentage of the population is handicapped? What percentage of the population has to accommodate that minuscule population of the handicapped. If you think it’s an unfair burden to require a handicapped person to ask for help, consider the unfair burden of the millions and millions and millions of dollars that are paid just to make an invalid feel like a whole human being.

    That’s not cold-hearted; it’s just logical and pragmatic. I’m not beyond asking for help when I need it. Why shouldn’t a disabled person be required just to ask for some friggin’ help?

  32. snoop-blog says:

    @Falconfire: well seriously the fast food industry can’t fire someone everytime someone thinks they are being rude. maybe and ignorant person (working fast food mind you) thought it would be more rude to not take the other orders first. then it’s not that they were being rude, just that they were idiots, who worked at A FAST FOOD RESTAURANT! if the restaurants paid more, maybe, JUST MAYBE, this wouldn’t be an issue (but i doubt it cuz i had rude servers at nice places).

  33. snoop-blog says:

    the point is suing here is extreme. she wasn’t refused service at all. she WAS served, just maybe without the free smile.

  34. RandomHookup says:

    Well, have we blamed the victim enough yet, folks?

  35. snoop-blog says:

    if someone was rude to me, i’d complain to the manager at the most. not litigate. i know people who do just come off as being rude, should they not be allowed to earn a living? she’s not suing because they denied service to a handicapp person, that’s a legitamate lawsuit. suing over getting an atitude? isn’t it possible to mis-interpret rudeness, therefore making it more hearsay really?

  36. burgundyyears says:

    Surely she can sue people into being kind and considerate. And if she picks up a cool 100G’s in the process…well that’s just gravy for her.

  37. Falconfire says:

    @snoop-blog: Why not? Every other industry out there, if they are a good company gives reprimands or fires employees of said nature.

    The problem is ultimately they KNOW they can get away with murder because its a fast food restaurant. You fire just 2 people for being rude and you will watch your staff straighten out REAL FAST. It worked at the Dairy Queen I worked for way back when I was in college… im sure it would work today.

  38. MDSasquatch says:

    I made a mistake and went to a Jack in the Box a few months ago in San Diego, my disability was that I speak English. After several attempts to place a correct order, i just drove away.

    I might be a bit presumptuous, but if she is blind, she may have had some help driving to the BK or TB??? Couldn’t the person who carried her there read the menu for her?

    Seems like she was looking for a fight and some cha-ching to boot!

  39. cindel says:

    Fast Food places usually have a menu that can be given out to people if they request it. Tsk

  40. snoop-blog says:

    @Falconfire: yeah and maybe they could drug test new hire also……. you have no clue. you do realize fast food jobs have revolving doors at the front right?

  41. pastabatman says:

    @DMDDallas:

    so how does this work? You step aside and they serve you when? after everyone else has been served? when is that? closing time?

    Who said she DEMANDED to have it read? where is that in the article? Maybe she did ask for a large print menu. My guess would be she was answered with a blank stare and a slack jaw.

    also she did not ask for the WHOLE menu to read. from the article:

    “…reading her just a partial list of their offerings.”

    @balthisar:

    She did ask for help. They sent her to the mens room.

  42. PDX909 says:

    @darkened:

    It costs very little to accommodate disabled patrons when it’s thought of at the building planning stage, things like ramps, high contrast and braille signage, handrails, and floor markings are virtually zero extra cost when it’s built into the layout of the premises. But no, here in the US we don’t give a shit about anyone other that ourselves do we, I think most of the comments here prove that. You can’t wait two extra friggin’ minutes while someone helps out the blind lady?, shame on you. And before anyone starts bashing me, it’s not about political correctness, it’s about basic human decency. Good luck to her and her case, I hope it makes a difference.

  43. Coelacanth says:

    @SNOOP-BLOG: I don’t think you can get a declaration of being “legally blind” if all you need are corrective lenses. There are many more conditions if advanced enough (macular degeneration, glaucoma, diabetic retinopathy, to name a few) that no matter what prescription one gives, their vision is severely impaired.

    It’s hard to tell the motive behind the lawsuit without having witnessed the platintiff getting service. Assuming she’s reasonably polite, she has every right to expect courteous service from anyone.

    The fact is, people *are* cruel to those with handicaps, and it takes lawsuits like these to force people into behaving as they ought to in the first place. Nobody should have to be suffer the indignity of “justifying their existence” and apologise to the whole world every time they want a meal.

    On the otherhand, if the blind woman was deliberately withholding information in hopes to antagonise employees to strengthen/establish a lawsuit, then she’s just being greedy.

  44. snoop-blog says:

    let me get one thing straight, the rudeness was wrong, but suing is just as rediculous as my comments have been, which is my point.

  45. Alger says:

    @friendlynerd: $10 at Kinko’s would only have held it off if they had advance notice, or if they had thought ahead.

    On the other hand, teaching their employees to not be jerks in front of customers would have held it off. Oh, and it might even increase their profitability.

  46. snoop-blog says:

    @COELACANTH: said:@SNOOP-BLOG: I don’t think you can get a declaration of being “legally blind” if all you need are corrective lenses.

    so why are you chiming in if you just think but do not know for sure? i have glasses, i’m am legally blind.

  47. DMDDallas says:

    @pastabatman: I don’t know exactly what happened here. I’m just giving a plausible situation where letting other people go first is a reasonable thing to do.

    Now, if there is a really long line, then you might as well go first because you’ll be waiting all day. But, if there are a few people behind you who obviously know what they want – its courteous to let them go first.

  48. SarcasticDwarf says:

    @arch05: There are reasonable and unreasonable accommodations. Here’s an example: Many people in my family have an essential tremor, which means that their hands shake constantly. Now, if they go to Starbucks or something and order a drink, they will often ask for the same drink to be put in a larger cup (a medium in a large cup). This allows them to consume the beverage without spilling it. Now, sometimes employees will say no initially, but every time they have ever explained why they asked they are given what they requested. It is a very simply accommodation that does not greatly inconvenience EITHER party.

    Let’s take another example: I broke a few bones and was on crutches for about five months in total. When I called to order pizza I mentioned this fact while on the phone and requested that the delivery person put it on my kitchen counter (all of 12 feet from the door). By working with the company (asking in advance) everyone got what they wanted.

    So now lets look at this case. If I were legally blind in that situation I would have waited in line and when I reached the counter explained the circumstances and asked first if there was a large print menu available or failing that, if SOMEONE could read it to me. Likely that employee would have grabbed someone from the back to read it to me (probably someone whose three minute absence would not stop all food production). If nobody else was available then I would not mind waiting a few minutes. When you have a disability it is up to YOU to make the best of it. You have to know what your limits are and when to ask for help.

    I suspect what happened is that Alice Camarillo acted in such a way that the employees did not learn about her disability until AFTER she started being a complete ass. I suspect she also deliberately provoked the employees given the way she was treated at three different restaurants.

  49. just_paranoid says:

    Hmmm. What she’s got going against her is that she’s suing more than one restaurant. Makes her look like she may have intentionally looked for a discrimination lawsuit once she became blind, but since they didn’t deny her service, she’s just trying to find a reason to sue so she’s saying they were rude. I find it hard to believe a fast food worker in New York would be rude.

  50. Phipps6505 says:

    @snoop-blog: No. You cannot. To put it into lay terms, my wife’s optic nerve is very thin. It can’t transmit the same amount of information that a regularly formed optic nerve can. Part of her disability manifests itself in that she can’t see very well in brightly lit situations. Another part is that she perceives a glare across glass or plastic surfaces that the rest of us can’t see. If she holds print very close to her face, she can read it just fine (with effort). There’s no way she can read something further away than a few feet from her.

  51. just_paranoid says:

    On a side note, what kind of lawyer would actually take this case? i bet if i got in the phone book and started calling lawyer that i know of to be good reputable lawyers, and told them this happened to me, they would just pass on it.

  52. Falconfire says:

    @snoop-blog:

    !) yes I do have a clue, and I am very aware of the revolving door nature of the food industry, but what YOU failed to grasp is that for the lowest common denominator, its not a revolving door. For the people who typically are the “rude” type, they have been there for months if not years in some cases and are given free reign of the store, which is why they can be assholes. You fire them and you watch the burger punks straighten out. We actually have this same situation going on at my work in a IT department. The lemmings follow the old “pro” who acts like a child for the most part. His job was just threatened because he took one joke way too far… the lemmings are not listening to him anymore and are out doing their jobs again.

    2) If it takes a lawsuit to tell your company they are a bunch of douches, your right its ridiculous… on the part of the company and its defenders (IE you) It takes very little to take care of a problem of this nature, the fact that it exists shows how stupid people in this country are, and how accepting people are of nasty attitude and 16 year olds who belong in juvi coping a attitude to the people they are there to serve.

  53. friendlynerd says:

    @Alger:

    You don’t think teaching their employees –anything– would have required more planning ahead than printing a laminated large print menu?

    Fast food employees don’t give shit #1 about their job performance. When showing up on time and speaking English are enough to get you employee of the month, you can’t expect that much.

    This says more about the management’s lack of planning than anything else.

  54. Phipps6505 says:

    @MDSasquatch: My wife is legally blind. With a cane, she’s perfectly capable of getting in a taxi, bus, etc. and find her way downtown and into whatever store, restaurant she wants. I don’t think it’s a major imposition when she says, “I can’t read the menu, could you help me.” It takes an extra 60 seconds at most. If you don’t have that time, I feel really sorry for you.

  55. snoop-blog says:

    @Falconfire: yeah let us all put our feet down! who cares about what’s happening with the rest of the world, lets make a stand here today to not put up with anymore rude teenage punks who work a job their parents made them work and could care less that they get fired from. i say we march up to the white house and picket. forget that lets just all lawyer up, and run into these fast food places and wait for them to make a mistake!

    jeez man, i try to reserve my energy for greater causes. if they denied her service due to her disability thats one thing, but thats not what happened.

    @Phipps6505: my bad, you were right. like i said in that comment, it was probably a stupid question.

  56. ClayS says:

    @snoop-blog:
    Let’s face it, she files a lawsuit against a large fast food chain, and they are probably going to settle quickly out of court to avoid negative publicity. She knows she can take them for some fast bucks.

  57. pastabatman says:

    @DMDDallas:

    I understand what you’re saying, but the problem is applying the best case scenario to this person’s entire sum of experiences in order to make the point that she was in the “wrong” or being unreasonable.

    The fact of the matter is, that there seem to be some judges, who have a much better grasp of the situation in it’s entirety (as the have all the facts) that agree that she MIGHT have been discriminated against. At least maybe enough for the case to go ahead.

    Some judges did not. Looks like a jury might decide.

  58. arch05 says:

    @balthisar: When you’re in a wheelchair after a car crash, I’ll be sure to not help you up stairs.

    Basic human decency has gone down the shitter, and you’re the fucking posterboy for it.

  59. RokMartian says:

    Holy crap – she is missing an eye! That is probably why people were staring at her and making fun of her. Not because she couldn’t read.

    Really now, I have a hard time trusting the person behind the counter to count my change correctly – I wouldn’t begin to think they can read to me.

  60. Coelacanth says:

    @snoop-blog: so why are you chiming in if you just think but do not know for sure? i have glasses, i’m am legally blind

    I’m reminding you that there are many forms of being “legally blind,” and typically when people file lawsuits of this sort, they’re not talking about something that disappears with corrective lenses.

    Furthermore, you don’t know specifics of her medical condition, and yet you’re lambasting her by suggesting all she needs are glasses. Be responsible and qualify statements you’re not certain about.

  61. snoop-blog says:

    @COELACANTH: you were right, sorry. didn’t meant to get so rude please don’t sue me. lol. no seriously i apologize for that, and i was really just suggesting that sometimes the articles on here are worded in a way to tug on some peoples heart strings. i wasn’t suggesting all she needed was glasses, but how severe was her eyesight?

  62. Hoss says:

    I don’t enter a transaction with Taco Bell under an assumption that part of the payment is for pleasant conversation. If i got different food because I needed a special menu, or the food was priced differently, then I’ve got a gripe. Typically when I get rude service i make a mental note and never return. That is justice enough for me

  63. Phipps6505 says:

    @snoop-blog: No problem. You don’t know unless you ask. I still check with her from time to time to figure out what she can and cannot see. I think she has selective sight from time to time.

  64. rabiddachshund says:

    Did anyone else sit for a minute or two staring at the picture of the menu thinking it was a .png that hadn’t completely loaded?

  65. Steel_Pelican says:

    Why do the handicapped have more of a legal right to polite service than the non-handicapped? A “rudeness suit” brought by a non-handicapped person wouldn’t stand a showball’s chance in hell.

  66. Joafu says:

    One, I hate lawsuits aimed at fastfood, period; they have little point other than to blame someone else for your problems. Two, if this woman is legally blind, how is she getting from restaurant to restaurant? It sounds like she went from place to place looking for trouble, and if you look for some from fast food teenagers, you’re bound to find some. Legally blind does not actually mean ‘blind’ (20/200 in America- she can see at 20 feet what others can see at 200 feet) but is still a major handicap; if her condition is as serious as it is made out to be, she needs to have a caretaker with her, who would also be able to fulfill the role of ‘menu-reader’. Lastly, it’s Burger King for crying out loud, it can’t be that hard to ask for a ‘Whopper’, ‘Double-Whopper’, or ‘Shoot-My-Heart-Now-Whopper’.

    At the same time, workers need to be polite, and the things done unto her were unacceptable. They should be punished, losing their jobs, but their actions do not merit a lawsuit, especially when she seemed to seek out trouble.

  67. shadow735 says:

    Damn some of you people are big dumb heartless jerks. I bet you would be pissed if people made fun of you because you had some disability that made it so you couldnt read a menu. You guys dont have to worry though because Karma will kick you in your heartless bully attitude asses.
    Its pricks like you that would kick a puppy in the face just because he was whimpering in hunger, you all need to take a big look in the mirror.
    Sorry but I treat people as I would like to be treated and making fun of a woman because she cant read the menu and pointing to the men’s restroom when she has to go to the bathroom is morally wrong.
    I hope you all have your fun putting people with disabilities down because karma has you in its site so when shit goes bad you will know why.
    Have a great day

  68. snoop-blog says:

    @shadow735: thanks for sinking to our level and showing us your no different when you buttons are pushed.

    and for the record, and old lady asking for a “menu” in a loud restaurant could very easily be heard as “men’s room”. unless being blind trumps being deaf or hard of hearing.

  69. balthisar says:

    @arch05:

    When you’re in a wheelchair after a car crash, I’ll be sure to not help you up stairs.

    I won’t require anyone’s help, because friends and family exist. That was the whole point — not to impose on your uncompassionate, self-important self.

    Basic human decency has gone down the shitter, and you’re the fucking posterboy for it.

    And you demonstrably prove to be on a simlar poster yourself. If you consider what I wrote you illiterate monkey, I’m arguing against government requirements. We’d all be free to enable whomever we want to enable in visiting our places of business or residences. Private property being private property and all.
    Sorry for calling you an illiterate monkey; I guess I failed to understand that reading comprehension is handicapping you.

  70. unklegwar says:

    OH great, another “they hurt my feelings” suit. If someone’s rude you don’t deal with them anymore. This is our idiotic court system at work. No wonder there is such a prevalence of arbitration clauses. People sue over DUMB CRAP.

    Idiot plaintiff, Idiot courts and idiot laws.

    If I could sue for every time someone treated me in a way I didn’t like, I’d be in court 24/7.

  71. Steel_Pelican says:

    @shadow735: So the only reason you’re nice to people, and don’t kick puppies, is because you’re worried about the Karmic repercussions? Doing something out of fear of punishment isn’t exactly a genuine act of kindness.

    BTW, Karma isn’t something that has “you in its site”[sic}, it’s just the sum total of your actions. Karma is something you have, as opposed to something that will “kick you.”

    Brining religious principles into a conversation about legal protection isn’t the best idea in a country with a constitutional church/state separation, especially when those religious principles are inaccurate.

  72. FessLove says:

    I was legally blind until I had lasik. (note, legally blind is not the same as blind). I would never ask someone to read me an entire menue. Just because you are legally blind doesnt mean you don’t know what your favorite fast food restaurant offers. Lets face it, exploiting her sight to get money. Thats the new 40 hour work week. If you are too lazy to work, then just sue someone!

  73. FessLove says:

    btw, pointing to the mens room was horribly uncalled for. I agree with that.

  74. shadow735 says:

    @snoop-blog: Sorry I dont have any disabilities, (Unless you count respecting people and their feelings a disability)so you will have to find something else about me to ridicule and make fun of. Who cares if people have to wait for a few minutes while someone reads the woman a menu. People get pissed when they have to inconvenience themselves because someone has a disability that puts their forward momentum on hold.
    People don’t have hearts anymore. So I say they suck and you say? What, sinking to your level? In what way? Pointing out how people that get themselves off by picking on people with disabilities are heartless jerks? Okay I see where you are coming from.

  75. arch05 says:

    @balthisar: Exactly you ignorant bastard. You’re against ADA and government regulations?! You’re against a PERSON IN A WHEELCHAIR being able to go into a PUBLIC BUSINESS without WAITING AROUND FOR 5 MINUTES FOR HELP?! What fucking planet are you from man? Believe me, ADA puts a major kink in my particular line of work, but you know why we abide by it, other than we don’t want to be sued? Because it’s the RIGHT THING TO DO jackwad. I don’t think I’ll feel the least bit sorry when your ass becomes old & decrepit & noone wants to help you. Why don’t you just go off yourself right now?

  76. Cowboys_fan says:

    God bless America where if someone is rude to you, sue, sue, sue…geez I’da been broke for life before I left high school

  77. shadow735 says:

    @Steel_Pelican: Nice assumptions there I was raised in a household with values and morals. I treat people how I would like to be treated not because of Karma I do so because I have compassion. So don’t go assuming I am doing anything out of fear of punishment. Also where the hell did I mention religion? So I didn’t “Brining{sic}” any religious principles into the discussion. Karma is a theme that covers all religions and all beliefs, even non religion so nice grab there.

  78. Android8675 says:

    My problem with this claim is how could the “other customers” at this taco bell let this stuff happen. Clearly this woman is being treated rudely, but to hell with her, I need my 40 taco’s ASAP!

    Flying hell people. Can we PLEASE stop being mean to one another. I know you’re a bad ass in your POS BMW, but there’s no reason to get so close that I can see the color of your eyes in my rear view, and then flip me off when were at the speed limit.

    Sorry, random tangent. My point is people need to stop being A__ H___s. Period.

  79. Steel_Pelican says:

    @shadow735: Only assumptions based on what you put forth, trying to scare us “bullies” into false compassion. So are you better than the rest of us because you do your good deeds out of “compassion,” while the rest of us should just do them because we’re afraid of big bad Karma? If you don’t do things because of Karma, why are you expecting the rest of us to?

    Karma is a religious concept, there’s no getting around that, and it doesn’t “cover all religions and all beliefs.” It comes directly from Hindu, Buddhist, and Jainist religious/philosophical teachings, and teaches that one’s lot in life is directly related to one’s actions (cause and effect, not punishment and reward). Christian teachings show that one’s lot in the afterlife is directly related to one’s adherence to Scriptural teachings. Karma is more or less neutral to a person’s actions, whereas Judeo-Christian principles tend to judge actions along a spectrum of good and evil. And non-believers probably don’t believe in a universe that has mechanics in place to tally up the acts of homo sapiens and mete out experience accordingly.

    Even so, the US judicial system does not exist to make sure that everyone has a great experience at McDonald’s, and it exists even less to make sure we all abide by the ethic of reciprocity.

    And for the record, many of us who oppose this lawsuit are “treating others as we expect to be treated.” I don’t expect any private person or private business to give me special treatment, rights, or protections because of peculiarities of my anatomy or condition, in fact, I would feel patronized if I received that sort of treatment.

  80. Wormfather says:

    @shufflemoomin: HA, you can get lobster at the McDonald’s locations in Main!

    :PPPPPPPPPPPPPP

  81. shadow735 says:

    @Steel_Pelican: Sorry but you are reading into my comments too deeply for meanings that are not there and once again you are making assumptions.
    No where did I say I am better then anyone, also my opening comment was “Damn some of you people are big dumb heartless jerks” so obviously I was addressing the Dumb heartless Jerks that get off on picking on disabled people. Weather or not people get scared because of Karma isn’t my concern, I was trying to point out that people need to stop for a second and think of other people’s feelings.
    As for the Karma, you are taking that way too literally to the point of bringing in a religious discussion, I guess you never hear the comment that Karma’s a Bitch, sorry but I don’t look at Karma as a religious concept, after all what comes around goes around as the saying goes. That’s the basis for my “Karma” statement.
    Weather or not a person has a great experience at McDonalds I could give a rats ass, what I do care about is people are treated with respect and dignity not matter what they look like, what race they are, or what kind of disabilities they have while they are at any restaurant or place of business.
    Sorry Steel_pelican but you need to not read into things so literally as you are blowing things way out of proportion.

  82. jimconsumer says:

    So, if she is having this problem with employees at multiple restaurants, perhaps the problem could be her attitude? While I can believe some people would be rude and snippy because they’re not nice people, I can’t believe she would have this experience everywhere she goes unless she herself is doing something to antagonize the situation.

    Honestly, I can’t see employees “laughing and staring” for no reason. Is she not dressing herself properly? Is she not using the right tools and techniques to accommodate her disability, and thus is just bumping into everything and making herself look silly? Is she being whiny or bitchy to the employees? There has to be more to this. People don’t just “laugh and stare” at you because you’re blind.

  83. Buran says:

    @darkened: Fortunately, your opinion ISN’T the one accepted by the courts regarding what’s required under the ADA. Good thing too because you’d be surprised how many people depend on wide-enough doors, ramps, elevators, etc.

    As a disabled person myself who depends on some provisions of the ADA, I can’t believe your insensitivity.

  84. Buran says:

    @unklegwar: It’s not dumb crap when someone is treated differently and badly because they’re disabled. The ADA mandates reasonable accommodation be made, and jeering at someone who asks for help is not reasonable and is not accommodation nor is it equal — why should the disabled have to wait for the “normal” to be served? It would have cost the workers nothing to assist her, and yet they chose to make fun of her instead and belittle her, and so she filed a lawsuit that’s not stupid at all. If it takes a lawsuit and punitive damages to get big business to realize that you just can’t go around mistreating the disabled, that’s what it takes.

    Remember the case of the idiot Steak and Shake drivethru manager who slammed the window in the face of a deaf woman who was just trying to place an order? He rightfully got blasted, and his employer rightfully had to make it right. This is little different.

  85. Buran says:

    @jimconsumer: I can considering the bottom-feeders I’ve run across in some places. Why are you so quick to blame the victim without proof?

  86. just_paranoid says:

    frivolous lawsuits are a burden on society. this woman didn’t even try to escalate to a manager, district manager or coorporate headquarters, which we all know as consumerist readers, would have been the proper channels for dealing with rude employees. going straight to court, over rudeness, is utterly rediculous. the world is not fair. sorry your parents lied to you about that. people are: nice, mean, moody, happy, sad, deppressed, anxious, RUDE, but mostly people are just people. get over the rude ones. let them be like water on a ducks back, and don’t let it get to you. at least go through the proper channels of escalation, and don’t clog our court system up because your feelings got hurt.

  87. Rusted says:

    @ThinkerTDM: I was already there. I had an eye injury. To read was hard for a few days. Nicer people down here I guess.

    Hey, you-all who think that you’re invincible and immortal….,Time will clean your clock too.

  88. lemur says:

    @just_paranoid: How do you know that she did not try to discuss things with the restaurant before going to court? Do you have a source to share with us?

  89. Steel_Pelican says:

    @shadow735: If you’re going to throw around terms that are core to the religious beliefs of most of the world, you’d better know what you’re talking about.

    And I don’t think I read anything into your comments. If you don’t think you’re better than us, then are you also a “big dumb heartless jerks,” or just equal to “big dumb heartless jerks?”

    So do you care how people are treated at McDonald’s, or not? Because you say you “could give a rat’s ass” that everyone has a good experience, but then turn around to say that everyone should be treated with respect and dignity. And if you’ve been to fast food establishments in the US, I’m sure you’d agree that the the “respect and dignity” afforded the woman in the OP was equal to the “respect and dignity” afforded any other customer on any other day.

    And while I agree that it would be great if we were all treated with “respect and dignity,” the US Government has no place in determining what “respect and dignity” is, or policing its distribution.

  90. Xerloq says:

    What a lively discussion.

  91. Steel_Pelican says:

    @Buran: Why should the “normal” wait for the disabled to be served?

    And lawsuits and punitive damages are the opposite of the necessary remedy for this type of problem. If Burger King is forced to pay out to suits like these, where will they recoup the cost? Whenever a company needs to cut costs, their first course of action is always personnel. Expect training budgets to decrease, and less money spent on employee retention, so you’ll have the same restaurants staffed by teenagers who are more poorly trained and less experienced as their predecessors.

    The solution here isn’t legislation or judicial action, it’s capitalism. Start at the bottom, and deal with the restaurant that’s giving you problems. Address your grievances to local management (these are the people who will make sure that the employees are trained, not the BK CEO), and if things don’t improve, take your business elsewhere.

  92. Phipps6505 says:

    @Joafu: She most certainly does not need a caretaker with her. Exactly what experience do you have to make this pronouncement? My wife is 20/200 and most certainly does not need a caretaker. All she needs is occasional help reading something.

  93. just_paranoid says:

    @lemur: i read the article is how i know. if they omited that she tried to contact a manger/corporate, then the editor is a troll. how’s that.

  94. forgottenpassword says:

    ( Yay! another one of my tips was used! )

    Reasonable accommodations are what is in order to properly serve the handicapped without descrimination. The employees were rude, made fun of her, sent her to the men’s restroom, made her stand aside & wait while they served other customers …. all of this was done in a descriminatory manner because of her disability. Would they attempt to do this to a regular customer? Doubtfull….. they did this to her because she was handicapped.

  95. Thorny says:

    These ADA posts always seem to open up a huge can of worms. I sort of love it.

    The fact of the matter is that becoming disabled is something that’s entirely possible for anybody, so it should be a concern, even if not immediate, for an entire society.

    Business owners gripe about the costs of making their businesses accessible all the time. I’d just ask them to imagine trying to operate their business if they suddenly became disabled. They’d need a ramp to get into their own building.

    People also do not realize the additional expense it takes being disabled in and of itself. There are always extra expenses associated with being disabled — medical fees, equipment, modifications. When traveling, it costs more to rent accessible vehicles and often to find accessible lodging. Everything adds up. Personally I’d rather spend $10,000 on a ramp ONCE than have to spend at least that much every 2-3 years just dealing with my own disability.

  96. nardo218 says:

    It’s not that they made her wait, it’s ridiculing and humiliating her. Of course the clerks should be punished, and if Burger king won’t fire them an issue an apology, then what’s this woman to do to reclaim her dignity and that of everyone else the clerks bullied for being different?

    If I was standing behind her in like, I would have read the menu to her. It’s not that big a deal to help someone else and in doing so, help yourself (by moving them the hell along.).

  97. shadow735 says:

    @Steel_Pelican: Sorry if something has got you in a bad mood but the term Karma has been used in a non religious way as well as a religious way, I don’t know what hole you have been hiding under.
    It is also used in religion as well, it doesn’t have to be attached to religion so it can be used so don’t tell me I am throwing around the term carelessly because I believe in Karma even though I don’t follow any set religion (and no I am not an atheist) I am saying you are reading into something in my comments (that are not there) because you are making statements about me that have no basis in fact only on the basis of your opinion.
    Thanks for putting words in my mouth, I didn’t say {I don’t care how people are treated at Mcdonalds}, I said “Weather or not a person has a great experience at McDonalds I could give a rats ass” (then after the comma after ass,) what I do care about is people are treated with respect and dignity not(should have been a no)matter what they look like, what race they are, or what kind of disabilities they have while they are at any restaurant or place of business.
    So, would you care to try again or do you want to continue to change my words and claim I said stuff that I didn’t say?.

    This whole suit is about this woman being discriminated, humiliated and taunted in various restaurants. Also it is the job of our Govt to make sure that people are treated with equal respect and dignity, especially if they are disabled, how would it be if people treated disabled people like crap, made them eat is a corner that is boxed off from “normal” people, do you think the govt would have a job to take a look into that?
    There is a difference between being treated rudely and making fun and pointing at someone because they have a disability.

    Seriously I don’t get what your beef with me is, what because I got pissed at heartless people?

  98. just_paranoid says:

    karma is not even a theory. let alone a proven fact. can we leave the fiction for fairy tales? in fact it’s a selfish way of thinking. to think that a supreme force cares enough about what your doing all the time in order to keep you in balance is a selfish way of thinking.

  99. Steel_Pelican says:

    Incorrect use of a term doesn’t bestow it with new meaning. The term “jihad” gets plenty of secular use, but that doesn’t deprive it of all religious significance.

    It’s not the government’s job to protect anyone’s feelings. Anti-discrimination statutes (and judicial precedent) exist not to protect citizens’ emotions, but to ensure they are given equal opportunities. If the employees of the restaurants in question impeded the woman’s ability to order, they are non-compliant with ADA, and the government has appropriate remedies for such situations. Note that “civil suit” is not really one of those appropriate remedies. Also note that the government’s only concern here is ensuring her equal access to goods and services.

    If she doesn’t like the way she was treated by the employees, she should take issue with local management, or take her business elsewhere. If I felt disrespected by a Burger King employee’s tone, would I have the right to sue? What if I felt insulted by the way the Taco Bell drive-through guy gave me my change? Could I take Yum! Brands to court?

    If the ADA is expanded to ensure “respectful” treatment, we discriminate against non-disabled, because they have no legal guarantee of “respectful” treatment. Therefore, we would have to pass legislation that would make it illegal for any private employee to “disrespect” (i.e. hurt the feelings of) any customer. Clearly, this is legally questionable, practically impossible, and philosophically onerous.

    Private feelings are a private matter, and getting the government involved in protecting and policing them is foolish and dangerous. If a business (or a private citizen) hurts your feelings, it’s between you and that business, and not a legal matter.

  100. Youthier says:

    I do wonder about the rudeness of the Taco Bell claim. I think back to my naive 16 year old self and I would have been a little startled by a missing eye. If I had a restaurant full of people and this lady had asked me to read her the menu, I may have asked her to wait until after the other customers were served. Is that the right thing to do? No but fast food employees aren’t usually PR savants.

  101. Joafu says:

    @Phipps6505: Don’t be offended. All I was saying is that legally blind is not the same as blind, and I’ll go so far as saying that there are varying degrees of ‘legal blindness’, some being more drastic than others. She has one eye, probably with severely denatured lens and no cornea function to speak of given that she can see up close; how she got that way is beyond anything I’ve searched for, perhaps an accident, perhaps born with it. Doesn’t matter. She sounds like she’s been around for a decent score of years, given the fact that she was able to take appropriate action in filing a lawsuit. Don’t you think that if she has been around that long, she would have a basic knowledge of what is on a McDonald’s or Burger King menu? Or in the unlikely event of her never being in any of the places, how did she know where to find a fast food outlet of the differing types? I’m willing to wager she has used them before, and the menu rarely changes from crappy, deep-fried tar to something more exquisite. I’ve been in a Taco Bell a handful of times, yet if I were to go there right now, I’d request something simple, such as a burrito because I know they’ll have it or something like it, and if they don’t, they’ll correct me. If there is more than one type of burrito, the worker would point that out and ask me if I would want a more refined selection, so I could find out more of the menu using more passive tactics, as opposed to humiliating the worker and wasting other customers time by reading the entire menu.

    A sit down restaurant would make more sense, not financially perhaps, but the waiting staff are, in general, more helpful and friendly. Instead of having an entire menu read to her, she could have said, “I feel like chicken; any suggestions?” That would have even worked in a fast food setting, you get the drift. She went looking to humiliate either herself or someone else, turns out it was her, and now she’s taking legal action.

    Sorry for any offense I may have done to you and your’s, accept my apologies, I was merely trying to say that she is not as helpless as she makes herself out to be.

  102. lemur says:

    @just_paranoid: “how’s that.”

    That’s pretty weak logic I would say. News articles are not authored as legal documents. Journalists are not lawyers nor judges. Their interest is in a good story and the search for truth takes a back seat. Therefore news articles omit facts, even important facts, all the time.

    So if you think that if X is not mentioned in the news item, then X did not happen, you are on thin ice.

  103. kc2idf says:

    @shufflemoomin:

    Who actually reads menus in Fast Food places, anyway?

    I do. Usually when I wander into a fast food place it is far from my first choice, and usually out of desperation. Such is the set of conditions that found me searching the McDonalds menu yesterday for something that didn’t have any meat in it.

  104. TechnoDestructo says:

    @snoop-blog:

    No.

    I had a supervisor once who was legally blind. It was due to congenital optic nerve defects. Glasses would never help him, because his eyes were just fine, the signal just wasn’t getting to his brain intact.

    He could see enough to walk around and to read things right in front of his face, but he’d never be able to drive, or read anything more than a foot or two away. He was an IT guy, and he’d spend most of the day with his face about 3 or 4 inches from the screen, squinting and blinking.

    He compensated for his disability in one really remarkable way. We had dozens of different software packages deployed around the department. He knew every single serial number, for all of them, from memory. He’d just rattle off 16 and 20 digit alphanumeric serials like it was nothing.

  105. just_paranoid says:

    @lemur: so your telling me, you believe that she did escalate properly? i know common sense is not all that common, but c’mon, what does your gut tell you after reading the ARTICLE, not the post.

  106. modenastradale says:

    Based on her description of the events, I would certainly say that the fast food workers denied her equal service on the basis of her disability. I’m actually surprised this case is considered a landmark.

  107. shadow735 says:

    @Steel_Pelican: The basis of my use and meaning of Karma is no different then how any religion uses it. [en.wikipedia.org]

    The only difference is I dont prescribe to any specific religion in its use but the meaning hasnt changed. Nor does it’s base definition.

    The fact that I believe in the core aspect of Karma and that every persons actions has a resulting action or consequence, has no effect on it meaning just because I am not Buddist, or any other religion that uses karma in its doctrine.

  108. modenastradale says:

    @HeyHermano:

    Fast food employees don’t need to be “PR savants.” They just need to be properly trained so that they don’t commit torts on behalf of their employers. If the restaurants don’t want to bother training them, then they’re inviting lawsuits.

  109. just_paranoid says:

    @modenastradale: then why isn’t she suing for discrimination? her lawyer to stupid to figure out that she was discriminated against? or he knows he has got no legit case for discrimination and is therefore trying to shame them into paying up.

  110. Steel_Pelican says:

    @shadow735: Karma isn’t about punishment or reward (as per the Wikipedia article you cited), but you said it would “kick you in your heartless bully attitude asses,” which sounds an awful lot like retribution to me.

    And my comment was in regard to your attempts to remove religious significance from the concept of Karma, or attempt to re-define it by virtue of its popular misuse.

    But even so, as just_paranoid pointed out, there’s no reason to bring superstition into (what should be) a discussion of a lawsuit that is clearly without merit. You can call us “heartless” “pricks” all you want, but the fact remains that we expect equality to be protected by the government, and granting disabled citizens special emotional protection not afforded to non-disabled citizens is discrimination.

  111. shadow735 says:

    Call it superstition but to me it is a belief, positive gets you positive, negative gets you negative. You brought in the religious specification not I, call it retribution if you want, label my use a mis-use but again I will tell you that your only basic for your objection to my use of Karma is that I am not in a religion that uses Karma in its doctrine so go ahead and tell me I am using it wrong because that is your opinion.
    The fact is its not about equal emotional protections its about treating a disabled person with the same respect as one that isn’t, taunting pointing, telling where the womens restroom is when its the mens doesn’t sound to me like emotional distress, that’s like a bully picking on someone that cant fight back. Then making her wait while they service everyone else? You don’t see anything wrong with that? Where is the equality there? Yeah she was treated equally for sure.
    If you are prescribing yourself as someone that makes fun of people because of their disabilities then that’s your life and choice but your choice will reflect the type of person you are. If you can live with that then have a great life.
    People that enjoy making fun of other people that they know cant or wont fight back only demonstrate that they are trying to make themselves feel better because they have some underlying emotional problems.
    You say her lawsuit is without merit, fact is that’s your opinion based on what is in the article I doubt it’s the whole story. I am looking at the basic discrimination portion which is the basis of the suit, so go ahead and tell me that there is no case.

  112. Steel_Pelican says:

    @shadow735: Let me get this straight: because you’re not a part of an established religion that believes in Karma, you can believe in whatever you want and call it Karma, and that doesn’t disrespect the millions of people who believe in its established meaning?

    It’s only discrimination if she was denied service, or reasonable accommodations weren’t made to ensure her access. And since she’s not suing for being denied service, but rather for what appears to be “emotional distress” there is no merit in the discrimination claim, since current US law doesn’t protect you from having your feelings hurt, or protect you from “rude” treatment.

    I don’t make fun of disabled people. I don’t agree with the way she was treated, but in legal terms, there’s no case here. And if there were, it would set the dangerous precedent that disabled citizens are entitled to more respect than non-disabled citizens. She had plenty of options to redress her grievances outside of the judicial system, but it would appear from the article that she did not seek those options.

    Her best course of action would have been to hound the restaurants’ management until the offending employees were terminated or disciplined, instead of bringing suit on the parent corporation, which will likely lead to an out-of-court settlement, cost-cutting on the restaurant’s behalf, and decreased quality of service for everyone else.

  113. snoop-blog says:

    HOLD THE PRESSES! I JUST GOT BACK FROM RALLY’S AND I ASKED FOR KETCHUP, HE GAVE ME AN ATITUDE, AND DIDN’T PUT ANY KETCHUP IN THE BAG!!! …where’s my lawyer……..or do only disabled people get to sue for rude service?

  114. Buran says:

    @madanthony: Then you should have got there before she did. She walked in first? She gets served first before your self-centered ass.

  115. snoop-blog says:

    also i guess i was playing with my stereo when he was trying to give me my change and he yelled HERE! in a rude way…. what a jerk. they were also laughing and pointing at something, i’m sure they were making fun of how short i am. i called the corporate hq, and they were all apologetic, but i don’t think they really meant it so, im going to sue….

    and after all that i found out they didn’t put cheese on my burger when i asked for it, and i consider that also to be rude. i wonder how more rediculous i could sound?

  116. Buran says:

    @Steel_Pelican: Because no one likes a line jumper? How would you feel if I cut in front of you in line? It’s that simple.

  117. Buran says:

    @unklegwar: So in other words you think a law designed to put the disabled on equal footing is idiotic?

    God help you if you ever wind up a quadriplegic.

  118. num1skeptic says:

    can we also sue airlines for this? if so, all you disabled people need to start flying more so we can make laws forcing airline employees to be polite. they are a bunch of bitches!

  119. shadow735 says:

    Your statement makes no sense at all, How exactly am I disrespecting the millions who believe in its established meaning, exactly what according to you is the established meaning.
    This is my understanding of Karma,
    If we accept that the logical ethical consequence of the law of karma is to behave responsibly, and the tenet of the law of karma is essentially “if you do good things, good things will happen to you – if you do bad things, bad things will happen to you,” then it is possible to identify analogs with other religions that do not rely on karma as a metaphysical assertion or doctrine.
    The idea of karma was popularized in the Western world through the work of the Theosophical Society. Kardecist and Western New Age reinterpretations of karma frequently cast it as a sort of luck associated with virtue: if one does good or spiritually valuable acts, one deserves and can expect good luck; conversely, if one does harmful things, one can expect bad luck or unfortunate happenings.[citation needed] In this conception, karma is affiliated with the Neopagan law of return or Threefold Law, the idea that the beneficial or harmful effects one has on the world will return to oneself. Colloquially this may be summed up as ‘what goes around comes around
    Sorry but where exactly amd I misusing the word Karma, where in my belive in Karma am I disrespecting any religion?e you to tell my that my belief is wrong and that by belieiving the way I am I disrespect other religions?
    Sorry I still don’t agree its just about feelings, she was disabled, they made fun of here pointed her to the mens restoom when she needed to go to the bathroom, took other people in line before her. Sorry but what if they did that to a black person, or an asian, or a retarded person, or any other person. Would it not be ok then?
    Why, fact is that it is plain discrimination, you don’t have to be denied service to be discriminated against, where exactly would this case mean disabled people get more respect then non disabled, they didn’t help her, they made fun of her, they taunted her, pointed at her. So if she wins her case how exactly is this going to mean non-diabled people will get less respect and diabled people get more.
    So does getting special help mean non diabled are not getting respect? Let me see, she cant see good so needs more time to get helped. Sorry I cant see the connection here. Can you point it out to me?
    That fact is the article didn’t say anything about any redress to the manager or corporations that she may or may not have made so in the end we don’t have all the facts.
    What we do know is a Federal judge overruled a lower courts athourity on the case and stated the lady can sue under the Americans with Disabilities act.
    How would you feel if you were mising an eye and couldn’t read the menu, or were in a wheelchair, or had some other diabilitiy and the employees told you to wait till the line of “normal” customers had been helped before you? How is that not discrimination. Exactly how is that an emotional issue. That’s discrimination, whats next after that discrimination based on race? How you look, oh you look like a terroorists let me help these white people first.
    It’s the same concept. Plain and simple discrimination

  120. Buran says:

    @Steel_Pelican: ‘Cause it’s legal to be a jerk, but it’s not legal to fail to accommodate a disability in a reasonable way, and helping her with the menu is reasonable.

  121. snoop-blog says:

    @shadow735: ok genius tell me this, if what happened to this woman is discrimination, why aren’t they suing for discrimination? are you smarter than this womans lawyer?

  122. wereroki says:

    Because she is trying to get a new reading of the law added onto the ADA laws. It doesn’t fall under the realm of discrimination exactly so they are trying to get it determined as such. I doubt they are suing for rudeness they are probably suing for discrimination and the judge decided it didn’t meet the criteria and another judge decided it did it happens alot and thats how precendences are set.

  123. shadow735 says:

    @snoop-blog: What we do know is a Federal judge overruled a lower courts athourity on the case and stated the lady can sue under the Americans with Disabilities act.
    [en.wikipedia.org]
    The ADA is a wide-ranging civil rights law that prohibits, under certain circumstances, discrimination based on disability. It affords similar protections against discrimination to Americans with disabilities as the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which made discrimination based on race, religion, sex, national origin, and other characteristics illegal.
    There you go, so you want to make any more smart comments.

  124. snoop-blog says:

    @shadow735: you still didn’t answer my question. and the article also said: “Sharpe said ADA laws don’t regulate “rudeness or insensitivity” of workers.” sharp is only a federal judge but what does he know. this woman is going to lose in court and get stuck with the bill. rightfully so.

  125. snoop-blog says:

    the appeals judge just probably needed some good p.r…..it is election year. just because they overturn it does not give it any more merit imo.

  126. shadow735 says:

    @snoop-blog: I did answer it, Go read the article again
    “A federal judge in Albany threw it out, saying the law doesn’t require restaurant workers to be polite.

    Yesterday, a Manhattan federal appeals court overruled the lower court, and Camarillo can sue the restaurants under the Americans with Disabilities Act. “

    Federal appeals court overrules Federal district courts it goes up the chain …
    It goes Federals District Courts, then Federal Court of Appeals, then The United States Supreme Court which has the final say and over rules all other courts.

  127. shadow735 says:

    @snoop-blog: here is some info to mull upon what discrimination against a disabled person is.

    Title III – Public Accommodations (and Commercial Facilities)

    no individual may be discriminated against on the basis of disability with regards to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation. “Public accommodations” include most places of lodging (such as inns and hotels), recreation, transportation, education, and dining, along with stores, care providers, and places of public displays, among other things.

    Sorry but if they made her wait for service and took all the other customers before her and pointed her to the mens restroom when she was a woman they denied her full and Equal enjoyment of the goods and services provide by the restaurants.
    I am sure a Federal appeals Judge would just go in favor of the lady just for some good pr. Good thing your not a Judge because If they do overturn another federal judge they obviously know that there is a case for discrimination.

  128. Feminist Whore says:

    This bothers me on so many levels. First, she obviously went from place to place looking for things to take offense at. Second, oh my god get some shades. Third, and most important – what kind of idiot has to read the menu at fast food places? They have the same f**king thing the last time you went there. In fact, they’ve had the same f**king things for the last 20 years. And if it’s new, you’ve heard of it on TV. There is no excuse to not already know what is offered, and ideally you should already know what you want to order before you walk in the damn door. Ugh.

    Still, my avatar can relate — [www.youtube.com]

  129. modenastradale says:

    @snoop-blog:
    Judges at the U.S. Court of Appeals are not elected. They’re appointed by the president for life, and cannot be removed from office except by impeachment.

    Try again.

  130. brennie says:

    @jimconsumer: I’m with you. The bathroom thing is messed up, but otherwise I’m not sure how you would prove in court that the staff was making fun of her. It’s pretty routine for a young staff to be cutting up, pointing, and laughing at any place they work. Human nature makes us think they must be laughing at us, but really there is no way to prove that. Where are the other customers or witnesses?

  131. PermanentStar says:

    Well, according to the Americans with disabilities act, “Public accommodations must comply with basic nondiscrimination requirements that prohibit exclusion, segregation, and unequal treatment.” And a fast food restaurant is considered a “public accomodation” under the act. It does also state, though, that “They also must comply with specific requirements related to[...]reasonable modifications to policies, practices, and procedures; effective communication with people with hearing, vision, or speech disabilities; and other access requirements.”

    I guess, per the legal definitions, she has a right to a lawsuit so long as she can prove that they did not effectively communicate with her, and that they provided unequal treatment. However, it’s hard to say whether being a jerk is not considered knowing how to effectively communicate with a vision impaired person as depicted in the law, or that by being jerks, that they were treating her in an unequal manner because of her vision impairment – and you can say, yes, because they made her wait to read “a partial list” of the menu to her until after other people ordered, but, one might argue that is not unequal treatment, because none of the other customers were requesting the menu be read to them.

    Does it suck that they treated her badly, yes – but under the letter of the law, does she have a case that the way she was treated was in violation of the ADA?

  132. emax4 says:

    @shufflemoomin: People who read the menu at fast food restaurants are patrons of said places that need to know if an item previously sold is still available (i.e. Shamrock Shakes, McRib), those from out of town (i.e. Texas residents visiting a different state who are used to seeing a McDonald’s Texas burger in Texas), and those visiting a restaurant in an out-of-place or different setting (some McDonalds sell hot dogs).

  133. StevieD says:

    ADA

    Oh get real. What a firetrucking abuse of power by the government. From the perspective of the small business owner the ADA compliance requirements are a costly expense.

    Take wheelchair requirements.

    My building has two small steps to the the front door landing. Two. Now I know a wheelchair can not easily transverse the steps. A ramp would seem reasonable IF that was the only entrance to the business. My SIDE door is ground level. No ramp needed, no need to try to wheel up a ramp. Would make life easier. So why not have handicap access at the SIDE door? Because according to ADA the ramp must be near the main entrance door yada yada.

    Gotta have a wheelchair ramp for employee entrances with stairs as well. Why, can’t an employee use the side door? No, must have an wheelchair ramp, no exceptions.

    Cost of wheelchair ramps for my main building? Easily $2500. Number of times wheelchair ramps used? Zero.

    How do employees or customers in a wheelchair access the building? Side Door. Just plain common sense, something the ADA requirements lack.

  134. yesteryear says:

    i worked in a diner for a while, a tiny place where i was the only person behind the counter most times – meaning i was taking orders and cooking. there were a couple times when i had to read the entire menu to more than a few blind customers. why? because it was a tiny place, where the sale of every hamburger and milkshake counted, and we liked our customers to feel taken care of. basically – it wasnt a fast food dump. this is one more reason why people shouldn’t be eating this crap. i hope she wins 20 kajillion-zillion dollars in damages and puts all of those places out of business.

  135. TheUncleBob says:

    I think a lot of people are missing a very important point.

    Should the restaurant employees have been nicer? Yeah. Duh. Not only is it a good business decision, but it’s a moral thing as well.

    But… should the government be stepping in, telling people they *have* to be nice to a particular group of people? Do we really want thought police?

  136. Buran says:

    @alphafemale: How is it “obvious”? And if you’re so sure she’s intimately familiar with the “fucking” (might as well not sugarcoat your rudeness, eh?) menu, then please enlighten us how you’re familiar with her day-to-day activities. We’re waiting.

  137. Buran says:

    @StevieD: If you don’t like the rules, then why are you in business? You knew the rules and opened a business anyway. Why are you so special that the rules don’t apply to you? Oh yeah, and didn’t we get over the “a different entrance off to the side is not equivalent” thing back in the 60s?

  138. Buran says:

    @TheUncleBob: If regulations weren’t in place to help the disabled live a normal life, then they’d be treated like shit (well, even more than they are already treated like shit) because then there’d be no reason for anyone to get their head out of their ass and extend common courtesy to other humans. Is it sad that it had to be codified into law? Sure. But this discussion thread provides plenty of proof why it was necessary. All the rules say is that the disabled have to be accommodated in a reasonable fashion. How hard would it have been for these lazy, judgmental idiots to actually lift a finger and provide the small amount of help she required?

    Apparently laughing, pointing, jeering, and saying “I’m tired of you” and slamming drivethru windows in the faces of the customers, even though it takes more time and results in firings, bad press for employers, public anger, lost customers after the news gets out, and even though it feels good to be helpful to other humans, is preferable.

    THAT is why the ADA exists. And when you go through life with a vital life function severely impaired, as I do, you appreciate the ADA. It’s not just the big things, it’s the little things like subtitles on exhibit movies at a local butterfly house that make all the difference in the world.

    Instead of bitching about being forced to do something, just do it, be a help, and realize you did someone a lot of good.

  139. WraithSama says:

    @nardo218:

    You’re missing the point. Yes, they were mean and ridiculed her, but that does not warrant a lawsuit. Can you even *IMAGINE* how much more hopelessly, obscenely flooded the courts would become if everyone could sue people who were “mean” to them? The legal system is already a circus, but setting that prescedent would open one hell of a can of worms. As long as they complied to the mandate of the ADA (which they did, no matter how asshole-ish they were about it), there is no merit to her claim.

    The woman’s situation is unfortunate and lamentable, but she doesn’t deserve a cash payout. The employees in question should be fired, however.

  140. Phipps6505 says:

    @snoop-blog: Federal judges are appointed for life. They don’t need any PR, election year or not.

  141. Phipps6505 says:

    @Joafu: I can only speak for experience. We go into a fast food place, my wife likes to know what’s on the menu. We go to Taco Bell once every couple of months, she usually asks me to rattle off the menu. It doesn’t strike me as unreasonable for a visually impaired person to ask someone about the menu. Yes, Colleen has been in the blasted restaurant many times before. But just as you or I probably unconsciously scan the menu when we walk in, she likes to have the same opportunity.

  142. pastabatman says:

    @alphafemale: troll.

  143. pastabatman says:

    @WraithSama: So say you. Not the Judge.

  144. Feminist Whore says:

    I’m surprised that so many of you seem to think that just because some of us don’t believe the whole of this woman’s story, that we are somehow saying that people with disabilities don’t deserve equal accessibility. This womans story would make more sense if she were simply suing over the lack of large print menus. To drag a lot of – in my opinion, unbelievable – tales of teens pointing and laughing, and purposely trying to humiliate her, only makes her seem delusional. The knee-jerk responses of absolute faith in what this woman says seems to be more a defense of the ADA than anything else. I certainly haven’t attacked the ADA in any of my posts. I’ve expressed my opinion on the validity of this woman’s claim. If her claim as merit on any level, she isn’t doing the disabled any favors by making it more about snickering cashiers than the availability of large print menus. Just because someone is disabled doesn’t mean they are above reproach.

    It’s just a matter of the odds.
    She is claiming this happened in a total of 7 restaurants.

    Camarillo made the claims against Burger King restaurants in Catskill *1 and Hudson, N.Y., *2 operated by Carrols Corp.;
    McDonald’s restaurants in Catskill *3 and Cairo, N.Y., *4 operated by Magliocca Stores Inc.;
    a McDonald’s restaurant in Hudson *5, operated by Reeher Majik Inc.;
    a Taco Bell restaurant in Kingston, N.Y., *6 operated by El Rancho Foods Inc.,
    and a Wendy’s restaurant in Hudson, *7 operated by Wendonie LLC.

    She claims she has been mocked and humiliated on more than one occasion in each of the 7 restaurants. I do not believe that people are that rude. Has anyone here ever seen anyone over the age of 10 point and laugh at a disabled person? In my 20+ years of hospitality and food service employment, I have never seen a single one of my coworkers, no matter thier age, treat anyone the way this woman claims to have been treated. If a person finds that the people they come in contact with on a regular basis are rude, perhaps they need to ask themselves why they piss everybody off.

    [www.ca2.uscourts.gov:8080]

    @pastabatman – what’re you 12 ?

  145. the lesser of two weevils says:

    Since this took place in New York she’d no doubt have also wanted them to read her the entire nutritional information on every single item on the menu as well.

    Im going straight to hell. At least there’ll be people to serve me a taco supreme already there.

  146. TheUncleBob says:

    @Buran: It’s not an issue of complaining about doing something good or nice – it’s an issue of being “forced” to do it. It’s not “good” or “nice” if you don’t mean it. Additionally, if the ADA says that “I” have to be nice to a particular group of people, does that mean “I” can be rude to other people who aren’t protected by the law? That’s not equal, at all.

  147. girly says:

    I’d say forgetting the rudeness, she probably deserves a small compensation for them serving other people ahead of her. It’s a minor inconvenience that sounds like it was done just because she was disabled and they weren’t prepared like they are supposed to be.

    Probably they should also get whatever fine the ADA might stipulate for not having the large print menus (if they are supposed to provide that).

  148. pastabatman says:

    @alphafemale:

    12? me?:

    “Second, oh my god get some shades.”

    Hilarious!

    “Third, and most important – what kind of idiot has to read the menu at fast food places? They have the same f**king thing the last time you went there.”

    The same idiot that doesn’t go to the brilliant mcdonalds a few times a month. Hard to believe, i know, but true.

    I literally thought you posted simply to get a rise. You made amazing assumptions based on knowing nothing about the situation but coming to conclusions based on how you live your life and how all others should be.

    So because you’ve never seen this happen, it therefore does not. Because you think ‘everyone’ should know what they want to order before they come in, she’s an idiot. or something. or whatever.

    The biggest reason there is a knee jerk reaction to ‘believe’ her, at least for me, is that (although there are differing opinions)the judge felt that based on the information he/she had there was merit in the case.

    That’s not to say that the other judge or judges thought she was lying, but that possibly they felt that under the law it had no merit.

    So they find out she’s lying, THEN she’s an asshole. They find out shes not then guess who are the assholes.

    Additionally, i really don’t think this is about rude behavior. It’s about people, and in a way, the sorta “culture” of the these restaurants, making the simplest things in life a royal pain in the ass because they’re lazy sh** heels and being completely fed up with the bullsh**.

  149. modenastradale says:

    @pastabatman:

    Pasta, I agree 100%. AlphaGirl’s comments were juvenile and very provincial, and not at all helpful.

    Personally, I tend to believe the woman’s story because I’ve witnessed similar cruelty before. On top of it, food restaurants in particular just don’t give a damn about their customers (especially in New York — personal experience — I don’t know why that is).

    By the way, AlphaGirl, I didn’t think you were a troll, but your “oh my god get some shades” comment caused me to believe (or at least hope) that you were 10-15 years old yourself. Now that I know you’ve been in the workforce for 20 years, I feel just a little less confident in the state of our society.

  150. modenastradale says:

    @modenastradale:

    *fast food

  151. Feminist Whore says:

    oh wow! no really! wow! that’s so clever how you switched my name up like that, only about 102 other people before you have done that, and oh boy grrrrr yeah it just makes me so gosh-darned mad! Why I could just spit! :/

    I don’t see what’s so bad about saying get some shades, admit it, that shit is shocking. pasta called it deformed. It doesn’t seem deformed to me, just missing the eye. I found it disturbing and said as much, and I know that you aren’t suggesting I shouldn’t be allowed to voice my opinion. I don’t walk around on the beach with a bathing suit covering just my remaining tit while exposing my garish mastectomy scars, and then expect people not to notice. That’s right though, it’s illegal for me to walk around with an uncovered chest, whether there be a tit atop it or not. I also don’t see what’s wrong with expressing my opinion on people who show up at a fast food restaurant and don’t know what the fuck they want. I am tolerant of many, many things, but that will never be one of them. And for the life of me, I can’t understand why you are so upset about my observation that fast food restaurants have had the same menu’s for the past 20 years. Are you guys in charge of new menu items at some fast food place or something, and you’re upset I haven’t noticed? Ok Ok, you guys have introduced a myriad of new items, and by myriad I mean 2. And the woman does say she goes to these restaurants all the time, not rarely, and certainly not so rarely that she would forget what they served. In any event, I should have realized that some of you boys have a tendency to be over-emotional and sensitive about the most random of things, so consider this an official apology to your tender self of steams. Now, if you have a need to nag at me further, you’ll have to find me in a more recent thread ;-)

  152. Trick says:

    I find it amusing that the blind lady actually thinks the idiot behind the fast food counter can read!

  153. pigeonpenelope says:

    @savdavid: i was a minimum wage paid teenager working at burger king. i was helpful to folks of a variety of disabilities. yes, they should be paid more but attitude is something a manager should be coaching to. it shows poor leadership when their employees are insensitive to disabilities.

  154. pigeonpenelope says:

    @Trick: hahahaha!

  155. pigeonpenelope says:

    @alphafemale: you make a good point.

  156. pharmerjon says:

    When I*point to eye* was done pointing and laughing at her (lots of pointing), I think the employees had “an eye” for the solution. The problem is have her bitch or EVERYONE else bitch, Its a lose, lose. Proper response is “look sideshow, while I *point to eye* can appreciate your right to be allowed out of the cage once and a while, you can’t come in here just ****LOOK OUT*** oh…that was nothing. Thank you for patronizing this fine establishment.
    Bottom lime – you wanted to be treated like everyone else YOU WIN. They treat everyone like shit and can you blame them? Hell, we only see them at work can you imagine how bad their life must be outside of it? Makes me want to make fun of the disabled just thinking about it. Has anyone seen my midget?? That little rascal!!!
    -I’m not satisfied until you’re not satisfied.