A U.S. businesswoman was arrested by Saudi Arabia’s religious police for sitting with a male co-worker at Starbucks, says CBS news.
She sat with a male colleague in the Starbucks’ family area, the only place women are allowed to sit with men.“Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked ‘Why are you here together?’ I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin,” she told the Times.
Following her arrest and interrogation, the woman was hauled before a judge.
“He said ‘You are sinful and you are going to burn in hell.’ I told him I was sorry. I was very submissive. I had given up. I felt hopeless,” she told the Times.
Saudi Cops Grab U.S. Woman In Starbucks [CBS News] (Thanks, J!)
(Photo:Scarequotes)
More From Consumerist
-
U.S. Airways Passenger Arrested After Saying She Has "Surgically Implanted Device" Inside Her
-
Netflix: We’re Only Doing One Season Of Arrested Development
-
American Airlines Flight Grounded Because Typhoid Fever Apparently Still A Thing To Worry About
-
That Overdue ‘Twilight’ Book & DVD Could Get You Arrested
-
Complaining About McDonald’s Food Is One Thing But Slapping Workers Is Just Rude
As a country, we need to not send one more penny to the Saudis until they abolish these bullshit superstition laws. We need to deport their ambassadors, withdraw any military protection, and suspend all business transactions until they join the rest of us in the 19th century.
For the “when in Rome” commenters:
As foreigners traveling abroad, we should do our best to uphold the laws of the country we visit, within reason. However, absurd laws like Saudi Arabia’s should not be tolerated by any sane, reasonable person anywhere in the world. Establishment doesn’t make it right. There’s a difference between respecting custom & sovereignty, and supporting tyranny and oppression. It’s one thing to find Singapore’s ban on chewing gum ridiculous, but abide by it anyway. It’s another to uphold the wholesale rape of civil rights on behalf of idiotic superstition.
I really consider the women who live within that culture. I feel pity by them. Islam = benefit for the men.
What? Where is a cheer chain when you need one?
@matsayz: That’s rich. If she was arrested for sitting in the wrong place in Starbucks, then the guys bothering her were wearing fucking dresses.
I’ll be happy to sing Kumbaya around the fire with these people when they stop arresting English teachers who name their bears mohammed, killing dutch citizens, and burning buildings down over political cartoons.
And I said “these people”. I feel free to think of Saudi Arabia today as we might have thought of the american south 50 years ago (or more recently). I don’t feel that we should have given credence to the south’s “peculiar institutions” then and we shouldn’t give any to the saudis now.
Selling expensive coffee in Arab , LOL. What a nice way to get back at them.
BLACK GOLD=COFFEE
Not news. This stuff has been going on for decades.
To quote American Dad, from ‘Stan of Arabia’:
It’s great if you’re from mars, but not if you’re from venus!
If you wanna drive a car you’d better have a penis!
So if you’ve got a vagina, a vulva, a clitoris and a labia… stay the hell away from Saudi Arabia!
Religion must be separated from law, but only always.
@Celeste: Women can drive in Saudia Arabia.
@Adam Hyland: One key difference – the American South is part of our own country. Saudi Arabia isn’t.
I’ve known for years that I wouldn’t go to Saudi Arabia for all the money in the world, because I know I would fail to follow some obscure role-of-women law and get arrested for it. It’s not worth it.
They are few countries that are as religious as the good ol USA.
@Steel_Pelican: But you’re in THEIR country, thusly you have to abide by THEIR laws, no matter how absurd they seem to you, a foreigner.
The alternative is to simply not visit said country.
@dapuddle:
There are probably none with as diverse a population as the USA either. And I’m proud that we are tolerant of our people’s religious, racial and cultural differences.
The tourism industry there must be booming!
@Anitra: Well, absolutely. I’m not suggesting we send the national guard in like it was Arkansas. I’m suggesting that people working there for western companies leave. I wouldn’t work there, unless it was for a ridiculous salary and I’m sure the woman in this story won’t go back to work there afterwards.
I guess Saudi Arabia is pretty forward-thinking, I mean drinking Starbucks coffee *is* a crime.
These people have been programmed to think this way from day one.
Anytime a society puts that much focus on a religion, stuff like is bound to happen. Be it Islam, Catholicism, whatever.
I think evil is the only way to describe it.
@howie_in_az: My status as a foreigner does not supersede my morality. Americans living in Apartheid South Africa who “abided” by the forced relocation and segregation were party to the injustice.
Saying “I was a foreigner” does not absolve you from moral culpability for supporting laws that are universally unjust. No government has the right to supplant the human rights of its subjects- these violations transcend national boundaries, therefore transcend citizenship. One doesn’t have to be a citizen of a country to protest transgressions of this magnitude.
One could ask “what would you say to foreigners who flaunt US law?” If a Canadian national had obeyed the law and not let Blacks into White schools in the 40′s, he wouldn’t get a free pass just because he wasn’t a citizen- he’d still be morally culpable for supporting a despicable practice. The same is true for an Englishman living in Nazi Germany who sold out his Jewish neighbors. Saying “I was a foreigner, it wasn’t my place to disobey!” just doesn’t cut it when we’re talking about things that are this big.
Oppression and subjugation is wrong, regardless of what country you live in, or what country you’re visiting.
@Buran:
True, it does say where women are allowed to sit with men, but cultural precident (and law) dictates that it has to be her husband or other male relative (father or brother usually), because Islam restricts the contact of unmarried men and women unless they are blood relation. From what I’ve read, even parties (like to celebrate the birth of a child) are often celebrated in one home, but with the men in one area of the home, and the women in children in another, since Islamic law forbids even the contact of married women with men other than their husbands or family members.
To us, it seems asinine, and sexist, but to Muslims it is part of a sacred order from God (although the feelings of women about the sacred law can vary from that of the men, but you will even find women who agree with – probabaly due to how they were raised). I’m not saying it’s right, but at the same time, you can’t really judge the morals and laws of another country by our standards – there are differnet cultural and religious backgrounds to be considered.
Consider the good old US of A – for the longest time, we women conceded our rights to men, we accepted that we couldn’t vote, own property, etc, but, slowly, the times changed, people’s attitudes changed, then came changes to the laws – with an Islamic country, that doesn’t have the separation of church and state though, they don’t have the ability to change the law, because it’s the word of God, sacred law, and you can’t make ammendments to the word of God. Do I believe that they treat their women wrongly, yes, but changes in laws and regime, etc need to come from within a country. As ridiculous as the law may seem to us, if you are working in a nation that is vastly different from your own, and you’re aware that the laws are different, it is your responsibility to abide by them. someone said you should only abide by laws that are reasonable – but reasonable or not, I would think if you’re going to be in a foriegn country, you need to abide by all laws, if not to just save your own skin.
Yeah, why is this on consumerist?
@Steel_Pelican: Well put.
@akyiba: Where’d you hear that? The last article I read on the subject, dated Feb 1 of 2008 says that the ban could be lifted this year. If they can drive now, that would make it a new privilege all of one week old.
And relax. It’s lyrics from a song from a cartoon.
…they didn’t tell her she was going to hell because Jesus said so.
@Derp: So the next time someone says that to me I should just assume that Christianity is a horrible, bigoted religion?
Thank god she wasnt caught singing a tune to herself…. she could have been stoned in the public square!
I do agree with the “when in rome” comment, but how is one to know all the laws of a foreign country (or even their own country?)? I do agree with the commentor who said that explaining the law to the person & giving a warning is a more reasonable thing for a cop to do. But even our own cops sometimes have a problem with that. [www.youtube.com]
@Rectilinear Propagation: yes.
For those who haven’t read William Sampson’s tale, here it is:
[watch.windsofchange.net]
Fast warning: The site is filled with right wing douchbaggery, but the story was posted, so there you go.
@Meat_Shield: Dude, she _was_ following the law. She was in the family section. That’s, you know, where women are allowed to sit.
If this pisses us off we need to cut ties with places like this. I am very much for respecting the mores/values of other countries but that doesn’t mean I need to send them my money.
Well, I don’t know what the big deal is. When your in another country obey the law. What did they expect?
No one forced this woman to work in Saudi Arabia. She was happy to collect a paycheck from the Saudi economy while Saudi women were being oppressed all around her, but it was suddenly an outrage when she didn’t get to live her life of privilege for one day. Pfft. If you don’t like it there, don’t work there. I wouldn’t.
“It’s their country, their culture, their “religion” and their laws” is one thing. It’s entirely another that they want to come over here and force the same oppressive laws upon us … HERE … in the US, Europe and the western world. That’s been the whole point of all the splodeydopes and smashing planes into buildings and chopping off heads.
If you hadn’t said Saudi Arabia, I would have assumed by the men’s actions it was Kentucky or Alabama.
I know one needs to respect laws and whatnot, but these seem to go along with the way the world was run hundreds of years ago by the Catholic church.
I am not trying to knock on anyone, but this does make the people of the Islamic world seem like complete and utter idiots. It just seems silly to have such a stupid restriction. It even seems more silly someone actually cares about it.
OMA! a woman is sitting next to another man! The world is at an end!?!
I mean come on really, some people seriously need to figure out this is the 21st Century (A.D.)
The funny part is she was actually following the law and doing what she was supposed to. Yet 3 guys in dresses scream a woman committed a horrible sinful act and suddenly she is drug off to jail.
When are people going to realize that religion is just as made-up as their laws are?
@EvilConservative: I’m a woman and a feminist, and you know what? It is their law. You don’t like it? Don’t go there until the people of that country change their ways. I don’t like it either, but if I willfully went to another country, I would obey their laws or I would leave.
Or, better yet, if you feel that strongly about it? Feel free to go there and fix it yourself.
@pinkpuppet: No you aren’t.
@melanie.dawn: @kimsama:
Yes, a woman getting arrested in Starbucks for not following an established, albeit moronic tradition, is totally akin to Jews in 1930 Germany. Thanks for trivializing the Holocaust.
On second thought, why don’t you two go over to Saudi and put your money where you mouth is. I’m sure the Saudi women will appreciate having someone speak up for their rights.
@Adam Hyland: I always depend on men to determine whether a woman is a feminist or not. As PinkPuppet said, “You don’t like the rules of a country, then stay away.”
@pinkpuppet: You can’t be a feminist if you don’t see a problem with this.
@LissaKay: Oh please do tell me how you have been forced to live under Islamic rules? Your post can be summed up in one sentence: “Muslims are evil.”
A true feminist (not the ball-busting Feministing sort) would never defend any of the oppressive practices of Islam.
@LissaKay: Way to go with the straw man argument. Saying you follow the guidelines of the country you’re in has nothing to do with feminism, your politics or religion.
@zouxou: Have you not been paying attention to these freaks? Those are THEIR words, their proclamations. Not that they would ever succeed, but they will make our lives hell while they try to force the rest of the world to submit to Islam. Wake up and smell the coffee, infidel! They are already here, already eroding away our rights, right here in the US, restricting our right to speak the truth about Islam, restricting out right to secure ourselves. Living in denial does not make the truth go away!
There is a basic misconception at work here. Simply sitting in the family section does not equate to following the law. Yes, it is the only place women are allowed to sit with men. No, that does not mean ANY male– it means male RELATIVES. She chose to disobey the law. Even giving her the benefit of the doubt that she didn’t know what the law meant, it is a basic tenet that ignorance of the law does not an excuse. I don’t agree with the laws oppressing (protecting) women in Saudi Arabia, but then I also disagree with many US laws. The bottom line is follow the damned law no matter where you are.
As for the person equating this to the atrocities of Apartheid and the Holocaust, that is a red herring. I can follow the laws of Saudi Arabia (ie not be in public with a unrelated male) without turning over another woman to the police and without forcing her to do anything.
@zouxou: Meh. I’m just saying he/she isn’t a feminist. there is no reason to lie in order to lend credence to an argument. I mean, you probably wouldn’t believe me if I told you I was a muslim fundamentalist if directly afterwords I made a convient arguement that just so happened to draw strength from an apparent lack of bias, would you?
And quit trying to pull the H-triv card. Some things are comparable. the treatment of women in many cases in some of these places is as bad or worse than the treatment of communists, homosexuals and jews in germany before the actual start of the final solution. no one is actually, realistically telling you that apartied was the same thing as killing ~10M people. What we are doing is providing an analogy that shocks the conceience in order to get people to think about these rights violations for what they are, rather than spout some law and order nonsense.
There’s a great Saudi blog that deals with a lot of this stuff. [muttawa.blogspot.com] The author doesn’t update it anymore (out of fear of discovery) but the archives are a great read.
@femmesavante: Ok. It was against the law for black people to be served at the same tables/area as white people in this country not to long ago. the reason that changed was that black people sat down to eat and didn’t get up. Should we have clucked our tongues at them or should we have gotten upset and wanted justice.
No one here can go back in time and tell this woman to not sit down at that table. No one can go back and tell here that maybe saudi arabia isn’t the best place to work. What we can do is either be supportive of her or supportive of them. Let me know which side you are on.
@Adam Hyland: If she had broken this law with the intent to help Saudi women gain some independence, her case would be sympathetic. That isn’t the case. She had no greater purpose or goal aside from drinking coffee and getting her work done to get paid. So no, I am no supporting her. If the story were different where she did this in protest or it was a Saudi woman who was arrested, then I’d be on my soapbox screaming.
@Steel_Pelican: And I’m sure you haven’t spent a penny that had some direct or indirect benefit to SA. Also, care to go to SA and start imposing your morality on their residents? As the old saying goes, less talk, more action. Yet your actions are lacking and talk is cheap.
@femmesavante: I mean, did she need to? Maybe if she had known about the law, she might have broken it on purpose (not likely, but w/e). The fact remains that if she were a man, we wouldn’t be having this conversation, hell, if she were a saudi woman, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. That’s maybe more important. Did anyone in this thread even KNOW there was a law against this before today? How many women have gone to jail for getting a coffee with someone not their husband? How many other laws like this are there in Saudi Arabia?
i cant stand muslems, they are so weird.
that is all
@Adam Hyland: Actually I did know of this law before today. It’s Sharia law– basic Islamic law. In countries that follow Sharia law, a woman cannot be ANYWHERE with an unrelated male. Exceptions tend to be made for foreigners, but you are still expected to respect the laws in public places. So although working with her male coworkers in their office is permitted, flouting the law in public isn’t. Once again, learn the laws before you visit.
True if it were a man we wouldn’t have the same conversation. We might have another. Given that you’re unfamiliar with the laws there, alcohol is illegal. A friend of mine decided to smuggle in vodka. He was caught with vodka in his hotel room, convicted and sentenced to five years. So by your logic, he should have been released and allowed to introduce the citizens to the freedoms of alcoholism? So as he sits in jail, my comment to him has been and still will be…”Dumbass, you should have followed the law.”