Julie found that only about half of her seat was available due to the size of the passenger next to her. The passenger was apologetic, but obviously couldn’t magically shrink her body mass and make more room. Julie asked if she could purchase a seat in first class but was told they were sold out, and there were no more seats available. “A flight attendant suggested that the only way to change my seat was to ‘find a cute boy or girl’ and sit on their lap.” Instead, she spent the flight half in her seat and half in the aisle. When she emailed a complaint to Delta and asked for a refund, they thanked her for her feedback.
Julie asked Christopher Elliott, ombudsman for National Geographic Traveler, for advice. His suggestion will sound familiar to Consumerist readers: escalate it! “You could have—and should have—appealed this to someone higher up.” When Julie took his advice, Delta apologized and gave her a $250 voucher.
As far as plus-sized passengers go,
Delta, and most of the other network airlines, tends to look the other way when someone unusually tall or wide boards their aircraft. At least one carrier, Southwest Airlines, doesn’t. It requires that plus-sized passengers buy an extra seat (but they get their money back if there are empty seats). I could find no policy regarding these above-average travelers on Delta’s Web site, which says to me that your seatmate wasn’t out of line in booking only one seat.
(Thanks to Jim!)
“Hey, where’s my airline seat?” [MSNBC]
(Illustration: Getty)
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@johnva: Ouch, those regional jets are bad. I’m flying on one this Sunday. :- If you are a frequent flyer it might be worth it trying to get Elite status, usually by just staying loyal to one airline. If not, most airlines have upgrades that you can buy (subject to availability). Purchasing a guaranteed First Class ticket is usually a lot more expensive.
United seems to have the best system for upgrades if you have no Elite status. I’ve been upgraded several times with them. They cost $65 per 500-miles.
So if your flight is 980 miles you need to use two, totaling $110. I find it easier to justify the upgrade if I find a really cheap fare.
I have seen it too many times where overweight couples book onto flights and don’t sit in adjacent seats so they manage to make more than one other passenger suffer because of their size. When booking together, you should travel together, period end of story. This might make fatties think about the impact they have on others when they have to suffer it themselves!
My wife had to suffer a 12 hour flight having the choice of being pressed up against a fattie or leaning out into the aisle and suffered back pain as a result of the seating position she was forced into.
I’m not exactly petite (5’11″, 200 lbs) and I have no trouble sitting in a seat in any size plane, from a 14 seater on up. But I do make a point of not infringing on anyone’s personal space when sitting next to someone.
Anytime I have been booked in a seat adjacent to someone who has to raise the armrest because they’re too big, or someone who has to use a lap-belt extension then I just get reseated. Being a frequent flyer does have its privileges
For those apologists who claim abuse or discrimination – get a freaking life! I don’t want/need to subsidize your eating habits by having to pay more for a seat on a plane because they have to cut out a row/column of seats to make room for bigger people. Seat sizes have not changed over the years – people are just fatter. Lose the weight and give us all a break!
@jonnyobrien: If I were the one seated in front of you, I would’ve tried to find your mother before talking to the flight attendant. In case you didn’t know, the seats are designed to be reclined. If you can’t fit into a sit like that, request an exit row. They have more leg room and the seat in front of you doesn’t recline. You could also purchase a first class ticket, or upgrade.
@ecwis: seat*, not sit
@FLConsumer: this has been the obvious solution for years now. simply charge passengers based on their reported weight. if at time of boarding they’ve gone up/down in weight, they’d get either a rate increase/decrease. This way kids would fly for much more reasonable rates, and fat disgusting slobs would pay their appropriate ‘tax’ for fatting up our beautiful world. This really is the only fair way to charge for ticket fare. You should ask me about my policy regarding 1st class (it’s called ‘first class’ so I take that to mean that rude people, arrogant people, dickheaded people shouldn’t be allowed to buy tickets for 1st class, because clearly they AREN’T 1st class people in the 1st place :^) I’m serious.
@BStu: Wrote: “We’re supposed to feel bad for obese people who might have to purchase a second fare? It’s not that I’m (entirely) unsympathetic to the plight of the girthy, but it’s not my fault that they’re fat. Maybe we can charge the fatties 1.5 times as much, and I can pay half-fare since I’m only using half of my seat when I’m stuck next to jumbo.”
Hi! My name is Jumbo. No, it’s not your fault I’m fat but maybe the airlines should charge anit-humans like you 1.5 times more for being an idiot who ignorantly classifies people of different physical appearance than yours. That sounds ‘fare’. Ha! Get it?! ‘Fare’. HA!
Exactly how is this to be enforced?
Tickets are e-tickets, and many passengers check in at e-counters. Weight doesn’t necessarily equal width: it could also be height or muscle. If it is fat, how is it distributed?
What about non-obese people with wide frames?
What about people who are fat because of illness? Wouldn’t charging them more violate the Americans with Disabilities Act?
It’s easy to criticize fat people. Successful and lasting weight loss is not so easy. Only 5% of people who diet lose weight and keep it off.
The fact is that airline seats are unrealistically small, especially for long flights. People have died because airlines pack passengers like sardines.
@ecwis
What does Mother O’Brien have to do with me on a business trip? Last time I checked Mother O’Brien wasn’t required to come with me on business trips.
I was sitting in my seat, occupying my space when a giant head of hair came crashing into my space. So if my knees are in your back, how about not reclining the seat? The seat moves, my knees are sort of attached to me.
Seems to me that you now are advocating a fat tax, a tall tax, a wide tax and a bring-your-mother-to-work tax now. First it’s the fatties, now it’s the tallies, then the momma’s boys, where does it end?
Oh, and I did upgrade, I went to first class as ‘punishment’
i think southwest has the best policy. it’s only courteous, to require individuals who take up more than on seat, to pay for more than one seat. apparently, the policy works condidering the company is doing well.
would you overweight people really feel comfortable patronizing a company that caters to you? i would think that would be more embarrasing or even worse.
The commercial airlines have been shrinking the fucking seats. Up until about 7 years ago, I was 80 lbs heavier – I had no “spillover” problems, because of my shape (I don’t gain weight in my middle), but my hips were squeezed in between the armrests so tight I could barely move (and the armrest would slip up when I stood).
Now, I am a size 4, and regularly described by other people as “tiny.” And yet, on certain commercial airlines (I’m looking at you, fucking US Airways), when I sit in the seats…my hips are squeezed, and the armrest often flips up when I stand. The fuck?
I like the classes-of-airlines idea someone gave above – the legacy airlines are trying too much to compete with lower-priced carriers, and it’s not working for their image at all.
@MRT: steerage
Fat people have no feelings!
Actually, I hate Delta. My last flight with Delta, I sat next to this couple. I had the window seat while they had the center and aisle seat… for 3 people! They had a 1-2 year old child with them that decided to fly on the mother’s lap, who of course was sitting next to me.
The child would cry the entire flight. Part of me hated that, but the other part of me realized that children do this and there wasn’t much I could do about it. So I put the headphones in and turned up the music.
But what totally disgusted me was that instead of going to the restroom to change said child, the mother decided to change the diaper right there in her lap next to me. *barf*
But hey, at least she wasn’t fat.
I’ve sat next to fat people, smelly people, loud people, extremely talkative people…I’d rather fat people have to pay for two seats if that is what it takes for the to be more comfortable. I can’t imagine being large and fitting yourself into a normal seat can possibly be comfortable, and it is unfair to lift the armrest and have another half a seat just because you think you can. Just as if stranger next to me were to do the same. The weight is just an added variable to the discomfort.
thin people suck.
@johnva: Because the airlines think “average size” is what it was in the 1960s. Time to update.
I was sandwiched between my husband (175lbs) and a stranger (400lbs) on a small Continental flight from Houston to Tampa last summer. While we sat on the tarmac, I was forced to sit on my husband’s lap and the flight attendants just smiled at me as they walked through the aisle. No one said a word to me about seat belts because I had a seat belt on – I was SHARING my husband’s seatbelt with him. Thankfully, there were a ton of open seats on the plane in the back, so my husband and I were able to move once the plane door shut. I felt bad for the large man next to me, who clearly was uncomfortable and embarassed. I wrote to Continental about the situation (I wasn’t seeking compensation of any sort) and my reply was that as long as the passenger can use the seatbelt extender, they do not have to purchase an extra seat.
The man next to me had 2 seat belt extenders. :/
@jonnyobrien: “I have a 36 inch waist and 52 inch chest, do I have to buy another seat because my shoulders don’t fit in a standard seat? I’m not overflowing the seat next to me, in fact, I’m quite fine with the armrest. So do we pack the plane like a game Tetris for people like me?”
This is a brilliant solution!
Each passenger must enter their dimensions and then the airline makes the “puzzle” of seat assignments available online as a game! (With little tetris-like bricks.)
No one knows where there’ll be sitting until they get to the airport for boarding, but are assured the most comfortable configuration possible.
@Buran: No they don’t. They just don’t care if their customers are uncomfortable now because they make more money if we are. If the discomfort of airline travel were actually cutting into their bottom line, they might make changes. But it’s not.
I’d just like to say, for the record, that you should NOT allow your 3’8″ child to recline the seat, because I am 6’4″ and have feelings (but none in my legs), you insensitive bastards! Also, changing your kids’ diaper on the seat during take off and then leaving it there for the entire 4 hour flight is UNACCEPTABLE. Please, if you must change your child on the seat, deposit the diaper in the bathroom immediately.
P.S. You and your family are the types of New Yorkers that are known throughout the world for their obnoxious douchery, and the flight attendant thinks so too according to her knowing wink and sympathetic shoulder shrug. There, I said it.
I should have taken this advice on my delayed-for-four-hours, post-Thanksgiving flight from O’Hare to Reagan. This man was big AND tall, took up half my seat (thank god I was in the aisle, the girl on the window looked miserable), and blared his DVD player at full volume.
But… how, exactly, does one broach the subject with a flight attendant? “Are there any other open seats?”
I totally agree the airlines have to be more realistic about who is flying with them, and a lot of it is height– I’m also 6’1, with a lot of my height in my legs, and flying is absolute misery for me most of the time. I always get behind the person who insists on pushing their seat back all the way the second they’re allowed to, and no matter what I say or plead or ask they usually just blow me off, fall asleep, and have a lovely flight while I have to do all sorts of contortions just to not have my knees throb the whole way. It was especially bad on a flight back from the UK about 10 years ago; I think the guy in front of me had been travelling for days or whatever– he reclined immediately and was in a coma for 10+ hours. The flight was full so I couldn’t really move.
I haven’t flown in about 2 years and plan to keep it that way as long as I can. It’s just not worth the hassle.
@banmojo: So you obvoisly can’t ride in first class according to your own policy, since you’re being elitist and arrogant right now.
This is what happens when pigs are finally able to fly.
They should make fatties sit together so they keep each other uncomfortable. That way they will volunteer to buy the extra seat.
@inelegy: Ha! I don’t like that prejudice against the overweight is the last acceptable form of discrimination. But, I do like that one.
@Quite a few others: Just to reiterate, I’m not saying I, as a plus-sized person, shouldn’t pay more; I’m saying I shouldn’t have to pay double. Replace the three seats in a few rows with two, larger seats per row, and I’ll pay a reasonable premium.
Honestly, I am as uncomfortable squeezing (successfully, mind you) into a regular seat as you are sitting right next to me and watching my discomfort.
I’d love to be able to call and request “Hurley” seating.
@witeowl: Airline tickets are sold by the seat. The reason you have to pay double is because if they sell you 1.5 seats or whatever then the rest of that space is useless to them. The seats are an indivisible unit, and the airline could sell two seats for two full ticket prices if someone wasn’t taking up more than one seat.
Let’s do a thought experiment, and say that the airlines did what you are saying and added some bigger seats in a few rows, and made them cost 1.5 times as much. Do you know what would happen? Non-fat people would really want to buy them, because they would be like first-class space for a price not much more than economy. Some first class passengers would wonder why they are paying so much more if the fat people can get a seat that’s just as big for only 1.5 times economy. Would you restrict these seats to fat people? If so, how would that be fair to everyone else who also wants a bigger seat for a cheap price? Even buying two economy seats you are typically getting a great deal with comparison to first class. What you are asking for is like first class, but with fat people being exempt from paying for first class.
The reason this isn’t done is that it simply isn’t compatible with the business model of most airlines. Unless that changes, I predict your options will remain either buying two economy-class seats or buyign a first-class seat.
@SeraSera: I wonder, would it be better if I called a flight attendant over and slipped him or her a note with “Are there any other seats open?” written on it? It’s the most subtle way of requesting a new seat, I think.
@banmojo: That doesn’t work though. The increased costs to the airline to fly someone who weighs more is only a little fuel burn. There aren’t kids tickets because it costs just as much to fly them as it does others.
@sotally tober: the obvious reason is money. The more people on a plane, the better as far as profits go.
The problem I have with weight restrictions is weight doesn’t equal fat. Body builders are all over weight, professional body builders would be considered morbidly obese if you went just by hight and weight. So you could charge more for them since they wouldn’t take up way more room (well some of the huge ones would but not most)
Girls wearing strong perfume (or guys with cologne) fat people who breath really loudly with every move, etc all bug me, people who talk obnoxiously loud or with really irritating voices also bug me, every one of them make my plane trips uncomfortable. Bsically everyone has flaws, and we cant fix them all so we need to deal. I think its a matter of personal responsibility. I am a big guy 6’3 and close to 300 lbs. My knees touch the seat in front of me in coach, and while I dont overflow into the seat next to me, I do take up all of my seat. So when I fly, I fly first lcass or economy + on united since it has more legroom. It’s more expensive, but I am bigger and it would be rude of me to bother other people becasue of my size.
@UPSETPANDA: I think that would be the fastest way to meet the FBI and State Police at your destination or an ‘alternate’ airport.
As a passenger who isn’t living in constant fear of anything, I still wouldn’t be a fan of seeing a note passed to the flight crew.
Note to flight crew? That’s a beating.
I once boarded a flight on standby, so I did not have an assigned seat. I, and the other standby passengers, were told to pick any available seat. When I got on the plane, there were two seats left and the air conditioning was not working. The packed plane was hot as a sauna and it had already pushed back from the gate – we were escorted onto the tarmac – so the other passengers were all seated and buckled (and sweating their asses off).
I was going to take the first seat I came across, but then I noticed a good looking woman in the very back, frantically waving at me. I smiled and trekked all the way back there to sit with her, at which point I noticed the whale who had followed me onto the plane. You see, I’m short and thin and the man behind me had to be at least 400lbs. He was walking sideways through the aisle, he was so big. The cutie was quite happy to have avoided that disaster and I had a wonderful flight and plenty of stimulating conversation.
So, if this is how it works out every time, I say, bring on the fatties!
Between my fear of having to sit next to someone who takes up half my seat and my fear that I will be forced to sit captive in a plane that is delayed for hours, I have not flown in a long time.
@fishiftstick:
Wow – the first sensible comment in this entire conversation.
I’ll be the first to say that I am a bit overweight, but I’m not what you would call obese. Still, I’m 6’4″ and 300lbs and I’m built like a linebacker.
Tell ya what, to those of you who are “lucky” enough to be smaller who wish to complain about my larger size that I have no control over, I’ll saw off one of my arms to make a bit more from for you.
Then I’m going to beat you to a pulp with it for being such a moron.
I think it’s a fair compromise!
@ManicPanic: No kidding. The cost and effort put into making separate sizes is a major inefficiency. Why they don’t just make clothes in one size is beyond me. Geez.
As for the rest, it’s called *public* transportation for a reason. You have the option of chartering a private jet… oh, yeah, except you don’t. So if equipment updates are required to accommodate bigger person, you’re probably gonna have to suck it up and pay a small subsidy, just like you did for disabilities, etc…
@xtc46: I would pay premium fare to avoid people with annoying voices yakking away on their mobiles… on any form of public transit. Being squished in silence is a welcome alternative!
@siskamariesophie: That’s funny. I always atract the weirdest person to walk down the aisle. Big smelly lubovitcher – check. 400 lb woman with cheap cologne – check. Vegan activist – check. Alkie – check. But I’d rather sit next to any of these creeps that I’ve sat next to than fly United.
@banmojo: Who wants kids to fly? If you’re going to charge heavies extra, you should charge extra for kids, ages 4-12. They bounce. They squeal. The kick the seat in front of them. They are a PiTA to all. NO Airline should ever charge LESS for children. Have mercy on the rest of us.
@Mrs. Basil E. Frankweiler: I’m not saying don’t make all the sizes but BUT a size 20 is substantially larger than a 6-10 which I believe is the size of the average american. So if I choose to eat responsibly and work out to maintain a healthy body weight, why should I have to pay for the person who thinks McDonalds and “4th meals” are a healthy lifestyle?
@johnva: John,
The solution is for two models of airlines. One, like Southwest. Lean and mean. One, like Midwest, with big comfy chairs and a price premium. Since these are both profitable airlines (and united, Delta, US Air and AA are generally not), clearly, there are models that work, and models that don’t.
Again, the solution for people who can’t fit in a 17″ by 30″ seat is simple: Buy 2 seats, garnering over 36″ in width on the lean and mean airline. Or, fly the comfy chair/price premium airline and get 21″ of width, and a wide arm rest between them and the next customer. At 21″ of width, you’re talking a 50″ waistline capacity, at least.
I don’t fly very much. I’m a fat guy. On the rare occasions when I do fly, I buy two tickets. If I’m gonna take up 1 1/2 seats then I should pay for 1 1/2 seats, and since the airline can’t really sell 1/2 of a seat I can understand why I would need to buy two. Can’t say as I’m really thrilled with paying double what everyone else pays, but I can’t think of anything that would be fair other than that option.
Personally, I’d find it far more embarrassing to try and squeeze some poor bastard in next to me than it would be to check in with two tickets.
I actually experienced the same thing while riding Amtrak this summer (Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to Albany.) I was placed next to a very nice lady who unfortunately occupied both her seat and half of mine. No fault of her own (I told her not to get upset.) When I pointed out to the woman doing the seating assignments that I couldn’t sit at my assigned seat, and asked to be seated somewhere else, she just turned to me and said “That’s not my problem” and walked away. I pointed to two empty seats that were right in front of the aisle I was assigned and asked if I could sit there, and she simply said no. So I sat DOWN on the floor , in the middle of the aisle and refused to budge. She just walked away. Eventually, another worker happened by, and the woman who was sitting across from me (who had witnessed the entire thing) stopped him and said “I hope you aren’t going to make this woman sit on the floor for the entire trip.” He immediately understood the problem and told me to sit in the empty seats I had originally pointed out to the woman doing the seating assignments. When the seat-assigner happened back and saw me in the seat she had said I couldn’t sit in, she started to yell at me, but I just pointed to the gentleman who was at the other end of the car and said “Take it up with him – he said I could sit here.” Apparently he was a supervisor or something because she had no desire to “take it up with him.”
@jonnyobrien: Why though? I mean, I’m asking for a different seat, and it isn’t a veiled attempt at asking for everyone’s valuables.
The problem with buying an extra seat, FWIW, is that airlines routinely overbook flights. I have a relatively large sibling that sometimes buys a second seat for himself, and on more than one occasion he’s had the airline try to wedge someone into the “unfilled” seat next to him that he paid for. That puts him in the position of choosing between being (a) the fat jerk that spills into his neighbors seat, or (b) the mean jerk that wouldn’t let someone get on the plane despite a technically empty seat.
Funnily enough, he says Southwest has been the worst in this regard.
COOL! My tip got used! (I’m Jim O)
On a flight from KC to Minn. I got stuck in a seat between two fat people on a smaller plane (had only one aisle going up the middle of the plane & 3 seats on each side). I had to basically pull in my shoulders & arms (& put them in my lap) because both of the fatties’ elbows, arms, fatrolls spilled over the armrests. Thank god it was less than a two hour flight! Had no problem on the later 8+ hour minneapolis to gatwick (england) flight on KLM airlines. There were a bunch of open seats everywhere & no fatties sitting next to me (this was in 2002 I think).
btw…. I ddint even know that the armrests move on flights.
Note: Just want to say that I am just slightly overweight, but have a small bodyframe so I have no problems fitting easily into an airline seat.
I got shoehorned in between two morbidly obese women on a flight from Fairbanks, AK, to Anchorage.
Once was enough. And if that had been longer than a 45 minute flight, once would have been too much. It isn’t happening again.
@fishiftstick:
When I weighed 250 pounds, I fit into one airline seat. They are not unrealistically small. The only thing unrealistic here is gigantically fat people who think they’ll fit in one coach seat, or that other people should have to share their seats with them.
All you have to do to comply with the ADA is “reasonable accommodation.” If there is no reasonable accommodation to be made, you don’t have to do squat.
You might make a case for sticking a fat person next to an otherwise empty seat being reasonable. Maybe for moving them into an empty business or first class seat, even. But if there are no empty seats, and you can’t avoid a fat person spilling into another paying customer’s seat, I think it’s perfectly reasonable to kick them off the flight.
And asking ME to take up the slack for some other passenger is NOT reasonable accommodation. If I’m faced with the prospect of a long flight with someone else spilling into my seat, I’ll make a fucking stink about it. I’ll get kicked off the flight. It isn’t happening again.
@UPSETPANDA; It’s not WHAT you’re asking, it’s HOW you’re asking. In the era of out of control flight attendants post 9/11, you’re passing a note to a member of the flight crew.
Then again,. what do I know, some posters are looking for Mother O’Brien to scold her because I can’t fit in the space behind their seat with it reclined.
@jonnyobrien: I think it’s pretty paranoid to assume ill intention just because someone passed a note to a member of the flight crew. Maybe THEY had suspicions about someone else and didn’t want to alert the person. Or maybe they just want to avoid embarrassment for themselves or their seat mates. Seriously, I think that the flight crew can handle it themselves without your help if the note contains a threat or whatever.
How about making the really obese people sit together & allow them to have an empty seat between them while charging them for 1 & a half seats? That way two fatties could share (the cost & the space) of one extra seat. They’d get their extra space & only have to pay for half of the extra seat instead of a full extra seat. Make it in the last rows & make fatties board first. Of course this would mean splitting up traveling groups or pairs of people, but for the sake of comfort…. I dont see anything wrong with this. A friend & I had to take two different seats way far apart from each other because of a seating screwup, but I didnt mind.
@jonnyobrien: I think the Mommy comment was basically saying you were born big. That has advantages to you plenty of times–personal security on the playground, an advantage of height and broad shoulders in daily life. When I sit next to a fat person who oozes over onto me, I feel sorry for them and make the best of it. Meanwhile, I’ve sat next to large-framed jerks who make no attempt to lessen my discomfort–taking both armrests, etc.
I recently flew with a small dog in a carrier under the seat in front of me. This was on United. The carrier counted as my carry-on and I had less leg room. I still had to pay an extra $150 round-trip to have less leg room and fewer bags. It was my choice, though, to fly with the dog. Sometimes, you just have to suck it up.
My best friend is quite large and miserable on flights. She can’t afford two seats or First Class. She’s clean and pleasant and very considerate–kinda folds her arms in front of her on her lap because she feels bad about the seat-mate being crowded. (She has a glandular issue–she doesn’t do fourth meal.)
I think a compromise would be in order: a small extra fee to those who are too large, assessed and paid at check-in or at the gate. Maybe you could require, as with pets, that the large person notify the airline in advance that they’re going to need more room and know they will have to pay say 75 bucks more each way. The airline could keep one or two seats open for this purpose (or other things like someone puking on the seat, etc.) and these extra fees would help offset their loss of sales for those extra seats.
Another option would be to have the flight crew address the situation. Just like they re-shuffle if yo don’t want to be in the exit row, they should do that when size issues crop up. There’s a whale in 12C, but a mother and small child in two seats elsewhere on the plane: move the two people from next to the fat person and put the mom and kid next to the fat person. The kid’s not going to need the whole seat and we all make sacrifices of comfort when traveling.
The over weight passenger had no right to occupy the OPs seat. That’s stealing. The OP should have been given a full seat and the overweight passenger should have been the one hanging over into the aisle.