Julie found that only about half of her seat was available due to the size of the passenger next to her. The passenger was apologetic, but obviously couldn’t magically shrink her body mass and make more room. Julie asked if she could purchase a seat in first class but was told they were sold out, and there were no more seats available. “A flight attendant suggested that the only way to change my seat was to ‘find a cute boy or girl’ and sit on their lap.” Instead, she spent the flight half in her seat and half in the aisle. When she emailed a complaint to Delta and asked for a refund, they thanked her for her feedback.
Julie asked Christopher Elliott, ombudsman for National Geographic Traveler, for advice. His suggestion will sound familiar to Consumerist readers: escalate it! “You could have—and should have—appealed this to someone higher up.” When Julie took his advice, Delta apologized and gave her a $250 voucher.
As far as plus-sized passengers go,
Delta, and most of the other network airlines, tends to look the other way when someone unusually tall or wide boards their aircraft. At least one carrier, Southwest Airlines, doesn’t. It requires that plus-sized passengers buy an extra seat (but they get their money back if there are empty seats). I could find no policy regarding these above-average travelers on Delta’s Web site, which says to me that your seatmate wasn’t out of line in booking only one seat.
(Thanks to Jim!)
“Hey, where’s my airline seat?” [MSNBC]
(Illustration: Getty)
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@forever_knight: Calling anyone who disagrees with you names automatically means you’re a poopyhead.
@Asvetic: When the planes were designed has nothing to do with the seats in them. Seat designs are always changing. It is simply a matter of money, the airline makes more money if they have a narrower seat and can do a 3+3 layout instead of a 3+2.
@Shadowfire:
“‘If you take up more than the alloted space, you should pay more.’
Alright. If you take up less than the alloted space, do you pay less? Be careful with that one.”
Uh, nope? You paid a set price for set dimensions. If you go OVER that, you should have to pay more. If you go UNDER that, hey, good for you. They don’t give me a partial refund if I don’t eat all my dinner at a restaurant, but I sure as hell have to pay more for dessert.
One solution: airlines need to leave a couple of seats empty for “emergencies”: obese people, people who can’t sit in the exit row, broken seats, etc. If someone pukes on your seat, you should be able to sit somewhere else. Leave the back row empty for in-flight reseating, and then the contributor could have been put back there.
I’m not old enough to know this first hand, but I’ve heard wild tales of days when air travel was considered a luxury. People would wear their best clothes to get on a flight, and pilots were looked up to like heroes.
Now it is cram em in and give em crap to eat, and charge em extra for everything.
IRISMR — You’re right, fatties are entitled to the same rights, but not *extra* rights due to their extra size. You get X amount of space on a plane for Y amount of dollars, but you do not get X+ amount of space for only Y amount of dollars.
The person sitting next to a fat person is entitled to his or her space.
@witeowl: “I would grouse if I was told I had to pay double….for a seat”
The woman in the OP had to do just that. She paid full price for half a seat. And her aisle-mate got an extra 1/2-seat for free. Where’s the fairness there?
@Buran: There’s no discrimination here- people who use more than 1 seat (even if it’s 1.00015 seats) should pay for the extra space. Whether they use that space for their bags, their ass, or just for personal space, they have to pay for it. If your baggage takes up more space than the airline allows, they charge you to accommodate it- does this discriminate against the overpacking traveller?
Truthfully, if there’s any discrimination here, it’s against the average-sized passenger. The average-sized passenger pays for a full seat, but often gets less, while the plus-sized passenger pays for a full seat, but often gets more. Imagine this in a restaurant, where black patrons pay for a 12oz steak, and only get a 10oz, while white patrons who pay for a 12oz steak get 14oz.
I had a horrible experience where not one, but TWO very large people sitting next to me (who were really smart too because they brought FULL SIZED PILLOWS WITH THEM which literally made my window seat like a cave) and I kid you not the guy’s leg was on top of mine and there was no way to sit without some part of his body touching mine. Disgusting. I am not a thin person but if you are over 300 lbs you should just be required to buy an extra seat or something. Or planes should have a ‘big boy’ class or something for large/tall people.
Another thought: morbidly obese people are handicapped, in a way. As such, they should be treated sympathetically, but at the same time should expect to make accommodations.
And for the “it’s what they deserve” crowd: if you see a jock on crutches because they broke their leg, do you refuse to open a door for them because it’s their fault for having played sports? Should the airlines charge extra to people in wheelchairs because their osteoporosis is the result of a poor diet? The same sympathy is due the morbidly obese.
Having someone else occupy part of your seat has got to be unsafe in the event of an emergency. I also thought that the armrest had to be down for takeoff and landing. (Key word there is “thought”.)
I wonder if airline passengers should start putting pressure on the FAA rather than on the airlines who have no interest in doing anything about it.
For simplicity’s sake, can we create a derogatory for fat people on planes?
I vote for calling them “Hurleys”. Example: “Jesus! Did you see the size of that Hurley in 14B? I’m glad I’m not in 14A.”
@DeltaPurser: So what are they going to do, say “Size X or above, you must purchase two seats?”
There’s a difference between “plus sized” and big enough to require 2 seats. I am technically plus-sized, but I have never had trouble getting an armrest down, nor have I ever had someone complain I was taking up part of his or her seat. Am I uncomfortable on planes? No more than the rest of the world, I think.
I’d rather require that stinky people purchase two seats, because I have sat next to far more extremely odorous people on planes. Seriously, America, consider a shower.
@Steel_Pelican: So why don’t people who take two huge, rolling carry-ons which together occupy an entire overhead bin have to pay more?
@Galls: HERE HERE! I’m 6’5″ myself, and I stand behind that proposal 100%. I took a Delta flight from SLC to Newark back in August ’07, and I was RIGHT BEHIND the exit-row seat, which was occupied by a tiny girl (couldn’t have been more than 16 years old, weighed 90lbs soaking wet). Those four hours were some of the most frustrating of my life.
Passengers should pay by combined weight of passenger and luggage. After all the airlines noodled it about in the press how much more people weigh today with fuel costs so high. So there should be a minumum combined weight of passenger and luggage and if exceeded then you have to pay a penalty.
And if a larger person forced me into half a seat I would make sure that I utilized tissues hocking up some and stuffed the tissues between us on my seat. Let that person be as uncomfortable as I am.
@ElizabethD: That doesn’t solve the problem that a size 0 who takes a fraction of the fabric of the size 20 is still paying the same price. And at Lands End, the sizes do go up to an 18 before you move into plus-size. So, the smaller sizes still subsidize the larger. Same thing with shirts.
@Shadowfire: I *DO* believe us skinnies should be charged less! It takes less fuel to move my scrawny 130lb ass across the country than the 300+lb’ers.
and of course it’s possible to get the larger people on the plane to move. Just yell “FREE BUFFET AT THE TERMINAL!”
Shouldn’t she only be getting half a refund?
I can’t believe how rude and obnoxious it is for this overweight person to think that a normal sized person who sits fine in their seat must be discomforted for an entire flight. Then, sit with someone’s fat rolls sweating all over you? The woman who wrote this was very nice – too nice. I would not tolerate this behavior, it is utterly disgusting. Oh and I’m not some skinny minny either. I’m 5’4″ and a normal weight for a woman, and I have no problem fitting my fat ass into a seat.
Flying is becoming such an awful experience with overweight rude people, people who smell and crying children. I actually pay for business class to avoid all this awfulness and it’s worth it.
I agree that obese people need to take more responsibility for themselves. I think you should be able to charge more if they need more space. I’m sick of overweight people, who the majority of, did it to themselves, playing the sympathy card. It’s as if we are all supposed to feel bad for them. Don’t mention it… or you’re discriminating. C’mon… take some responsability for yourself!
@Buran: So we should all be punished? No, this is not about discrimination, it is about math. You should be charged for the space you take up. If you take up 1.5 seats, then sorry, you are charged. Plus, considering the extra fuel they use it would be unfair. What about the rights of the person who now has to suffer because of the airlines unwillingness to charge the person for 2 seats (since they are using 2 seats)? Your plan would result in fewer seats on a plane and a cost increase much greater than you seem to believe. Also, you are making an assumption that everyone will fly once. But if I fly frequently AND am not taking up 1.5+ seats then I am paying quite a bit more which is totally unfair to place the burden of cost upon myself rather than the larger party.
And your point about requesting another seat was rather naive. As to the exit row, for every one person who does not want the responsibility there are 10 more who want the extra leg room. You see this as analogous to a full plane and the attendant asking for someone to switch into a seat with no room. No one is going to agree this plan. To say that this is an awful analogy implies that there is a way that they could be compared which they cannot unless you are trying to create two situations which are completely different.
@johnva: Someone your size and confguration was on my flight back from C*ba a few years ago.
He spent the entire 5 hour flight with his knees wedged into the back of his seat tray and his feet dangling a few inches off the floor. (Luckily it was a late-evening, no-meal flight because I have no idea how he’d have managed.)
There have been few times I’ve been glad to be only 5’6″ but that was one of them. I’m surprised he was able to walk when we landed.
@sotally tober: They already do. It’s First/Business class.
@neithernor: Because an airline employee wasn’t doing their job to make sure that people meet the carryon restrictions.
@lihtox: This isn’t about sympathy, it’s about getting what you paid for- a full seat. I’m sympathetic to the misfortunes and disabilities of my fellow passengers, but I refuse to pay for those misfortunes and disabilities, and when I pay full price for 3/4 of a seat, I’m paying for someone else’s disability.
@Asvetic: That’s bad math. 17″ doubled is 34, but that assumes a one dimensional ass. For seat width calculations, you have to figure in at least two: ass width and waist thickness from front to back. I have a 38″ waist and can fit, comfortably, in a 17″ seat. But man, the 19 and 21″ seats are a lot ore comfortable. 6’2″ is a PITA on a plane, though.
@sotally tober: Yes, they call those seats “First Class”.
Also, since airlines are more than happy to charge you an extra $75 if your bag is over the weight limit, or tell you your bag can’t go carry-on if it doesn’t fit in the space provided – why shouldn’t they charge someone extra if they are unable to fit into the provided seat?
What if two huge people are assigned seats together? Do they both get bonus sky miles and vouchers for them for inconveniencing each other?
My worse flight experience was with a gangly, skinny teenage boy who kept elbowing me in the ribs whenever he needed to do something with his computer, his mp3 player, cell phone, or food.
The problem was only solved when I switched seats with my husband who was shaped differently enough that the excessive elbow movement missed him completely.
People are all different sizes and shapes. It’s easy to blame excessive weight, but really… I’ve been next to larger people who don’t have problems with the seat. I think it’s about shape, not size.
delta sucks…i try to avoid them. The planes i have flown on with them in the past didnt even have monitors to watch TV. How 1990!
This happened to me once, but being asked to sit next to a bloated person on the bus isn’t the same thing. The bus company took a passenger off the bus (he going to the next town, 40 miles away) and paid for a taxi fare while I got a comfortable seat for the 300 mile trip, leaving two seats to Two-Ton Tom.
As a paying passenger, the thin person is under no obligation to allow the overweight one to lift the separating armrest. If the overweight person can’t fit between the centre and aisle armrests, it’s not the thin person’s problem. If you’re forced to sit next to someone so porcine, insist (politely) with the stewardesses that the armrest be kept down.
When airlines book, they should be under an obligation to practice the “sell two, refund one” policy to anyone who is overweight. If an overweight customer buys the ticket by phone or internet and does not tell the travel agent, the overweight person should be the first one bumped off the flight.
There is discrimination against overweight people, but expecting thin people to be inconvenienced by overweight people’s size is like an overweight person expecting a size 4 to fit. It’s unrealistic and silly.
@Jim (The Canuck One): I can usually barely fit as long as people don’t lean back in front of me. When they do, it sucks. As long as I get there first, people can’t lean back because their seat won’t move. If I don’t, it’s not nice. Some people will be considerate if you ask them politely not to lean back, but most don’t care.
I don’t even consider myself all that tall. The space between seats IS a problem with lots of airlines because they don’t fit a large number of normal people. Obesity is a different problem because it’s often more of a side-to-side problem. Thus, it can be remedied with the purchase of an additional seat. Being tall can’t be, since it’s the configuration of the cabin that is the problem.
On really long flights I usually get up every couple of hours to walk around and get a little more blood flowing to my legs (I get an aisle seat if I can when I’m flying alone so that I don’t inconvenience other passengers so much by doing this). Big planes like 747′s usually have some open areas near the stairs where you can stand up out of the way, and this helps a lot.
This is Heaven:
[peterthink.blogs.com]
This is how it should be. Or close. They could add those satellite TV/game devices you get on JetBlue, Virgin and America West. But this, as a coach seat, is how it should be.
And really, viewed as a strategist, what if there were two models of airtravel. At present, there are two profitable models, and a mass of bad models.
Model 1: Low Cost at all costs. Typical: Southwest in the US, Ryan Air in Europe
Model 2: Nice experience. Examples: Midwest and JetBlue (before they started leaving customers on the runway).
If you are morbidly obese, you can opt for two seats on Model 1 or one seat on model 2 at a higher price.
If you were slick, you might run your fleet into two models (United and TED, Delta and Song, are you listening). But you have to commit, hard, to your model.
If you are booking through an online booking service, the brand connotes the value: cost effective or amenity friendly. Would you pay $30-50 more for a two inch wider seat?
If it were important to you, Mais Bien Sur.
Message to fat people:
You’re overweight? I couldn’t care less. You balk at the idea of having to buy a second seat because your of love handles? Fine with me. But if you spill over into the area that I paid for I reserve the right to remove you from my space by any means necessary.
No one has the right to discriminate based on your weight but you also don’t have the right to usurp the space or services I paid for. You don’t mind being plus sized? Fine. But you should make accomodations for yourself that won’t punish others for your own problems.
If you don’t have any qualms inconveniencing me by spilling into my seat, I don’t have a problem inconveniencing you by stuffing you back into yours.
However, I will agree that it would be prudent for airlines to set aside a few seats (back row of the cabin) that are made to fit larger patrons.
one more reason i like southwest.
@Asvetic:No, most Americans are not overweight. I’ll bet there are significant portions of large people on the other six continents as well.
Ugh, I sympathize with the woman in the story. I seem to attract the larger travelers among us as seat buddies. In fact, when I am already sitting down and my neighbor double-checks their seat number and sees me sitting there, they usually have this gleeful smile on their face. I’m usually not that bothered by the fleshy passenger stealing half my seat, but more by the fact that the airlines try to overcharge me when my luggage is 1lb overweight.
@MDSasquatch: Haha I’m imagining someone old lady in one of those dry cleaning bags.
@Rusted: Actually, according to the CDC, 66.3% of adults over age 20 are overweight or obese. That being said, being a bit overweight or even into the obese range probably isn’t usually a problem for airline seating. The people that are spilling out of their seat are probably mainly just the morbidly obese.
Um problem is I’m quite normal-sized…maybe a little big but not morbidly obese (size 36 waist, 6 foot even) and even I have trouble sitting in a standard economy class for 6-7 hours at a time. If you looked at me, you’ll see that I’m not that big, but I hate flying precisely because of economy class. It’s a problem with the seats being too small for more than 50% of the population. They need to increase pitch by at least 10% and increase width by at least 15-20%, especially for international flights. United’s seat pitch and width is 31″ and 17″ respectively; try sitting in that for the duration of a Chicago to Hong Kong flight.
@erratapage: exactly! That’s why building larger seats isn’t necessarily “enabling” the overweight — it would mean EVERYONE has more space, including the tall people who have commented on this post (and whose inability to fit into a seat doesn’t have any moral stigma attached to it).
@neithernor: Problem is, the changes required to accommodate taller people are different from the changes required to accommodate the morbidly obese. Taller people need more seat pitch, and obese people need more width (as well as sometimes seat pitch too if their gut sticks out that far). It’s not just about moral stigma.
Sorry if this was covered already as I only made it half way through but…
This is EXACTLY why I like JetBlue. I am 5’11″ and 350lbs. I have flown AA, Delta and a few others. Sometimes I sorta fit, sometimes I need a freaking shoe horn to get in and out.
Recently I started using JetBlue. Seats are wider as in VERY comfortable. Leg room is bigger, as in several inches. I was never able to stretch my legs while seated before on other carriers. The TV in the seats and such are just an added bonus.
I am all for saving money but I refuse to make myself and people around me miserable just to save a few bucks. Until the other carriers decide, like JetBlue, to start thinking of the customer and not just the bottom line… I have my carrier. Otherwise, I will happily just drive.
@johnva: Here are two solutions if they do lean back on you. First, aim your A/C at the top of their head. Second, get a glass of water and, while pretending to sneeze, flick some onto their head.
@Rusted:
Uh, no. US and Canada are by far the fattest nations on earth. 2/3 of their populace is overweight, with half of this being obese.
Perhaps rather than a fat section on a plane, it would make more sense to have a small thin section, where the seats are less expensive.
People respond better to rewards than punishments. Reward people for being thin.
@din: And what about those who are not at fault for how they look? It’s easy to dismiss it as “you eat too much” but there a lot of people out there who can’t do anything about it and have sought medical help to no avail … so why should people who have done nothing wrong be discriminated against?
@johnva: I have an absurdly tall friend and he always flies first class. Problem solved.
The fact of the matter is that plane seats are small. There are a few groups that I feel bad for: at 5’6″ I am not NEARLY as tall as some of you and I have a problem when people put their seats back. So I have sympathy. Anyone with broad shoulders, you have my sympathy as well because its just the way you were built. You can’t help it and I don’t expect you to sit hunched in your seat. It is okay and I will try and give you a little extra shoulder room and not put my seat back and break the kneecaps of anyone taller than me.
My dad was on a flight once where a woman needed not one, but TWO seat belt extenders. You know the things they demonstrate with? TWO OF THEM!
@Javert: I don’t feel I was being unreasonable at all. The smallness of the seats has been a problem for a long time. Yes, wider seats mean fewer people on the plane. So you raise the price a bit to make up for it, like I said. Make the plane’s replacement a little longer to fit an extra row or three in. The difference can be made up in pricing differences and designing planes differently in the future. And yes, “I can’t fit in this seat” is a perfectly valid reason to be moved. With flight crew permission you can move out of your assigned seat. I know people who have done it. It’s just that the exit row reason is the best known due to the announcement.
@cef21: Or just realize that you’re a selfish jerk if you punish someone for using a feature of the seat that they paid for!
@bukz68: I wouldn’t go assaulting other passengers. That’s a good way to find yourself on the wrong end of an airport police/TSA squad when the plane lands, and maybe a lawsuit too.
@ecwis: Yeah, I think this is worth it on a long international flight or something. It’s hard to justify the cost on my much more frequent short domestic flights. I don’t intrude on anyone else’s space, but I’m uncomfortable. Also, where I live almost all the planes are those small regional jets. Those don’t even *have* a first class that offers more space.
Know how they have those metal frames to check if your carry on is the right size? Picture that, but for customer asses.
“I’m sorry sir, your ass is too big and you must purchase a second seat”.
At 6’5 and 260 lbs I don’t fit into the fatty class, but I’m not Tom Brady thin either. I fit just fine into the seat as long as the donkey in front of me doesn’t recline the seat. But, Murphy’s Law applies and people recline the seat into my small seat pitch and if you ask them to stop killing my knees they yell at you for bothering them or not allowing them to use the space ‘they paid for.’
I had one of the ‘I paid for it’ people in front of me on my last LAX to JFK flight. The lady just kept pushing her seat into my legs. The lady complained to the flight attendant that I was kneeing her in the back and complained. The nice employee looked at me, looked at her and cheerfully said, “Sir, if it would make you more comfortable, there is one last seat in First Class, you can have it if you’d like to stretch out.” Needless to say I accepted as the lady in front of me started yelling that I was getting special treatment for making her flight uncomfortable.
The flight attendant simply told her with the biggest sh*t eating grin that she was making her flight more comfortable by removing the offending party.
Needless to say, the CEO of American got a glowing letter from me praising the flight attendant and asking for a raise for her.
I have a 36 inch waist and 52 inch chest, do I have to buy another seat because my shoulders don’t fit in a standard seat? I’m not overflowing the seat next to me, in fact, I’m quite fine with the armrest. So do we pack the plane like a game Tetris for people like me? Or do I get lumped in with the fatties?