Xbox 360 Breaks Down 5 Times In A Row, But Microsoft Refuses To Replace It
Greg writes in to tell us that on January 2nd, his Xbox 360 unit broke down for the fifth time—it lasted eleven days this time, setting a new record for Shortest Period of Functionality. In the past year, it's been out of commission for over 12 weeks total. He's now asking for a new or refurbished unit, or else a refund, but Microsoft is determined to keep him in an extended warranty repair cycle indefinitely and won't negotiate. Surely by this point it's just cheaper to replace the defective unit, isn't it?
My family cannot play video games. My family cannot watch movies. My family cannot get anybody from Microsoft to help us. I bought the extended warranty for the system, bought the HDDVD add on, bought dozens of games and dozens of movies, bought a bunch of arcade games and videos from Live, but apparently our brand loyalty and investment in [Microsoft] products doesn't mean what it used to.Here's a timeline of Greg's Xbox 360 adventure from the past year:
| 1. | He bought an Xbox 360 and an extended warranty in early 2007. | |
| 2. | It was defective, so he called 800-4-MY-XBOX and arranged to have it repaired. | |
| 3. | Three weeks later the console was returned in working order. | |
| 4. | It broke down again. | |
| 5. | Repeat steps 2 & 3. | |
| 6. | He bought the HD DVD player add-on and began buying HD DVD movies. | |
| 7. | It broke down a third time. | |
| 8. | Repeat steps 2 & 3. | |
| 9. | On November 28th 2007 it broke down a fourth time. | |
| 10. | "Paul" at Microsoft says, "that since this is my fourth broken xbox that a supervisor needs to talk to me so that I can get a new console instead of another refurbished one. Paul promised a callback between 5-8pm on the 29th. He recorded my new phone number and address." | |
| 11. | Nobody calls. | |
| 12. | Greg calls Microsoft and talks to a woman who says Paul must have been from a different country, "perhaps Canada she thought," and they do things differently there. She says her supervisor says no deal on the new Xbox. Greg discovers that his account has no record of his conversation with Paul or his new contact info. She says someone will call him back. | |
| 13. | Nobody calls him back. | |
| 14. | Greg calls again and speaks to "Kim," who says a supervisor tried to call but Greg's phone number was disconnected. There's no record of his call from the day before or his new contact info. | |
| 15. | "Eventually" someone named "Jessica" contacts him and arranges for the fourth repair. He receives his Xbox 360 in working order "a few days before Christmas." | |
| 16. | On January 2nd, it breaks down for the fifth time. |
Now Chris at Microsoft has told Greg that "it's impossible" to get a new Xbox 360 console. Maybe what he really means is that it's impossible for Greg to get a working one.
Update: Our esteemed TV-friendly editor Ben suggests you may have a case for demanding a replacement or refund under the federal lemon law, the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (see more information on it here). You should check the fine print of your extended warranty and then see whether or not you can move forward on getting a new unit without Microsoft's permission.
(Thanks to Greg)
(Photo: drdementox)
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Comments:
@Caswell: I think that might be the best option as well...if I bought a 360, I think I would make sure that I could get a new one if mine failed, especially after the fifth time.
I wonder though...why do people keep using their 360 as a catchall media system? I get that it plays HD, but even back with the old XBox, people were stuck without any DVD player when their console died - why do people think they can just replace a regular DVD player with a console that is first and foremost for playing games?
good luck, man. all i can suggest is to call late at nite...i've had much better luck w/ their support line if i call after 10pm (ET). the one time i called in the afternoon, things didn't work out so well.
i've had to send my box back twice already & even though it works now, i get the rrod every time i turn it on. i have to power cycle it 3-6 times before it boots up. i just don't want to send it back b/c i'm addicted.
Lemon law, lemon law, lemon law. If an item is still broken after being repaired three times for the same defect, you're entitled to a refund or a completely new one under federal lemon law.
How did this happen? the first Xbox was basically a tank, and now the 360 is a piece of s. It tempted me at first, but now I will never buy a Xbox 360 unless they redesign the whole shebang.
Shame.
@Ben Popken: yeah, but is it the same problem? my first 360 had an issue with the sound board/connectors. the drive was broken on my second one. the one i have now has a case of the rrods. if greg's in the same position i'm in, he could be riding the repair loop indefinitely, no?
It's a known fact that the Xbox 360 hardware was poorly designed. Most of the hardware failures are due to overheating. There's an aftermarket kit you can buy that helps the heatsink clamp down on the CPU/GPU better. That might help Greg get his 360 up and running. Just google around for "x-clamp mod".
I'm wondering....
Whom did you purchase the extended warranty from? Microsoft automatically hooks you up with a one year manufacturer warranty that DOESN'T cover parts or labor (ie. you're gonna pay). Depending on whom you bought the warranty from, after the manufacturer's warranty runs out, your extended warranty from your retailer automatically kicks in, and I know for a fact Best Buy and Circuit City only offer replacement guarantees, as opposed to service plans.
@JD: Considering the device and peripherals they bought advertise themselves as a catchall media system, perhaps it should actually do what it promises.
It's more space-efficent (and possibly more energy efficient having only one standby machine instead of 2 or 3 of them) and keeps clutter to a minimum.
@Ben Popken: I'm pretty sure federal lemon laws don't yet apply to video game consoles... but a state lemon law might apply to computers and is worth a try.
@Caswell:
Re: Best Buy
Agree 100%. When mine broke, I just got a brand new one at Best Buy, and since it was still under MS warranty, it didn't even use up my PRP. I even got to keep my old hard drive.
@IrisMR:
Well they have redesigned the whole thing. You want a falcon board. look for a 175w rating for the power supply on the outside of the box. These should have a very low rate of failure.
@Ben Popken: He'll probably have even less luck with this angle, MS will surely list 5 different failures and get out on a loophole.
@JD: The xbox360, moreso than the original xbox, is designed to be a media center. It is not out of line to expect to use it like one. Besides, reading a DVD is less processor intensive than playing a game and the drive runs almost the same amount (depending on game caching) so really watching DVDs is LESS stressful on the system than playing games. Not to mention most movies are 2 hours but a gaming session might be many times that.
My 360 (launch unit) red-ringed on Saturday. I went looking for a new one with the Falcon motherboard and HDMI. I've heard they're quieter and more reliable. I couldn't find one (everyone was out of stock for some reason). When I checked Circuit City, I was amused to see their demo unit powered up in the display case with the Red Ring of Death flashing. Heh.
I actually skipped the whole X-Box 360 repair cycle and just fixed the RRoD myself. All it took was about $7 in parts (from Lowes) and about an hour of my time.
Haven't had a single problem since.
That said, if I knew then, what I know now... I would have skipped this format war and just purchased a PSP or DS.
Mine was also a launch unit with the extended warranty and it finally died at the beginning of Dec. 07. I called Microsoft...they sent me the shipping box...I sent it in...a week later I get the package back from Microsoft with a brand new unit that was manufactured a couple weeks earlier. They also included a letter apologizing for the breakdown and they also included me a new unit so I could get back to gaming sooner and also included a card for a free month of Xbox Live. I thought they did a great job.
@Dibbler: Dont be so sure its a new unit. Does it have HDMI? Apparently MS found a lot of the xenon model 360's in storage this fall and had them taken apart and put together with the newer heatsink from the Zypher board. Those units were made in december (I got one as my last repair and it lasted mere hours)
Okay maybe its a new unit, but its a xenon that's been refurbished.
hmmm I'm about in the same boat, I'm working on my 6th unit at the moment. (sigh)
I'm on my 5th 360 to date. First one bought in 2005 lasted 5 minutes broke, replacement shipped back was broken, third one lasted a year and a half broke was out of warranty. Purchased 4th one lasted 2 weeks broke. I love it when they say Microsoft doesn't like to inconvenience its customers then tells you 3 to 6 weeks for replacement. Good times.
I'm with Ben on this one. The 360's are broken from the factory if you have to get it replaced more than three times. Get a refund on it, and if they don't play ball (which will be their usual choice) then sue.
I just read an article saying that they when they get a broken 360 in they replace it with a "repaired" unit and just keep cycling them out. The article even said that MS is still finding stockpiles of launch units to send out as well.
I bought my 360 in April of 07 and it's been good to me though I use my original Xbox for a media center and I don't play games on the 360 for more than a few hrs a month. I also use the original Xbox for DVDs.
@IrisMR: The first xbox was not a tank! If you bought the first generation you got screwed over with the dvd player. I can't remember the last time I played an xbox without getting a dirty disk error.
I got my elite about 4-5 months ago and everything has worked perfect (knocks on every peice of wood he can find)
I had an Xbox360 that occasionally got the red ring of death. I finally traded it at Gamestop (at a loss). Too bad this guy just doesn't dump it and switch to another platform. I hear PC's have a lot of games....
@Geekybiker: The letter said it was a new unit. On the back it listed the manufacturing date as 11-24-2007 so I assume they can't just put a new date on a refurbished unit. I bought a refurbished Zune and it has "Refurbished" stamped on just about every flat space they could find so I'm thinking they'd do the same here. It didn't come with the HDMI port and looks just like a normal unit.
@solareclipse2: i think it depends on the repair. when i sent my first box back, i got a different "repaired" unit (different serial), but when i sent the repaired unit back, i received the same one. i'm thinking that they use a triage method for repairs - once diagnosis is complete, if the repair can be performed in a short period of time, they repair & return. if it requires more detailed work, they replace with a different unit.
@IrisMR: no retail units dont suffer from these same problems due to better cooling and a new cpu and gpu...however the refurbs are older and dont have the new hardware in them. buy one retail you are safe but if you send a 360 in until ms runs out of old units (pre july 2007) then you could get another dud.
I would go through the same crap as you. I love my 360 and cant stand my PS3. Even if it constantly broke i would still use it as much as possible.
Who did you pay for an extended Warranty?
Microsoft has a 3 year on the 360 right now without paying a dime more.
If you bought it(the warranty) from a store Best Buy for instance then take it in there and get it swapped for a new one. If they give you any hassle ask for a manager.
I am on my 4th or 5th 360 but I haven't been without one for a day since I purchased an extended warranty on the first one through best buy. Not that the breakdowns don't bother me but I still have another years worth of trade ins at my local B&M so I deal.
If all else fails email Major Nelson and politely state your case , ask him to get you in touch with someone who can help you.
Be careful about buying the extended warranty from stores like Best Buy (and not for the usual reasons). If you have a lot of DRM'd content that you have purchased (videos, Live! Arcade games, Rock Band songs, etc), Microsoft has to perform some kind of transfer for you to be able to unlock that content on the new machine. I think it is also tied to your Gamertag, but you will only be able to use it if you are logged in as that person on the new XBox. This is an ongoing problem for them that they are struggling to resolve, and last I heard, they do it on a case by case basis. I'm not sure if it is possible to get this transfer if you swap out your unit for a new one outside of their warranty program.
I can attest to Greg's problems with customer service losing his previous converstations, and not having his information on record. Nearly everytime that I've called 1-800-4-MY-XBOX, my previous case information seems to have "disappeared". Their customer support line is embarassingly bad. You're better off banging your head against the wall.
@Dibbler:
11-24-07 and no hdmi = remanufactured xenon board. Anything else made that late would have HDMI.
It was never sold, so I suppose technically its new. Old stock new, but new.
@Zoom:
I've been waiting nearly 6 months for them to reauthenticate my DRM'd games. Every time I've called, they tell me that someone has to call me back to perform the operation. After multiple attempts I just gave up. It wouldn't have been so bad, but with the insanely sloppy Live service over the past few months, all of my downloaded games and content have been locked behind MS's draconian DRM system.
@MisterE: Exactly why I don't have a next generation console...My Pc lets me play most of the good games on console, and most of them look and perform better on pc. Plus well I can do a lot more than just game on my pc.
@Josh Smith: 3 years is only for the rrod. regular warranty for any other issues is 1 year (unless you live in europe - then i think it's 2 years).
Take'em to small claims court!
@adamsummers: Welcome to the wonderful new world of "no physical media". Works great for music too, and soon will be available for movies as well.
@Ben Popken: Negative, the Magnusson-Moss warranty act does not state specifically how many repairs entitles you to a replacement product or refund. It only says you are entitled to replacement/refund after "a reasonable number of repair attempts" have been made. 3 Is the generally accepted number though, but the law itself is not specific. It also does not state that the replacement has to be new. Just a different product, however you do have the option for a refund under the law.
If he bought it with a credit card they might be able to help him get his refund or cover the cost of a new one.
But if he paid cash I think he would be better off getting a new one and take the old one and sell it off for parts or even mod it or something.
I personally love my playstation, would love to have the playstation 3 but for now my ps2 works just fine and I have had it for about 5 years.
@LazloNibble:
Trust me, I'm well aware of the implications of DRM. Microsoft's wouldn't be so bad if they let me authenticate/deauthenticate my content at will. I've been much happier with the iTunes and Playstation Network models.
Don't know if this works everywhere. But my roommate had the same issue. Upon the third time it broke, he went to Meijer where he bought a new one. Meijer, unlike Best Buy, does not match up serial numbers on the XBox to serial numbers in the system. So he stuck his in the box and returned it for a refund. Now this may not work everywhere, but we as consumers are sick of getting the run around. Maybe if the companies just listened to a little Blue's Traveler once in a while....
This is Greg, the 5 time loser...
@rustyni: I bought the extended warranty from Microsoft ($30 I believe, then I actually renewed it early after the second repair). Then I found out that Microsoft extended it to 3 years... so I guess I'm good until 2011...
@edrift101: I wouldn't dare repair it myself. The last customer service guy kept asking me if I had installed a 3rd party cooler or had modified it in any way myself.
@Geekybiker: I mentioned to them the problem seems to be solved with the new falcon chip and they refuse to "confirm or deny" the falcon chips existance.
@STrRedWolf: Yup, that's what it looks like I'm doing. I'm going down to file in small claims tomorrow. It's $19 in Cambridge MA I believe.
@UrbanKnight: 6th? My God...
Maybe its time to move on to a console without such a massive failure rate, i.e. Sony PS3 or Nintendo Wii...
I never understand brand loyalty. If I purchased something, after the second or third breakage (Depending), I'd be looking for a new company to go with.
@Zoom:
The Best Buy I exchanged my broken 360 at let me swap my original hard drive (with all my data/games on it) with the new one, so I didn't have to worry about getting my stuff reactivated. Of course, that was the second store I tried. The first store was not going to let me keep my old hard drive.
I had a good laugh when Bill Gates said he could see a future where the Xbox360 was "the most reliable console". Hopefully we'll never know a dystopia in which things are so bad that all the other consoles are even less reliable than the 360...
@Papa Midnight: it's not about brand loyalty. i was a nintendo gamer long before i was running windows 2.1 on my first pc. xbox just has the best games right now. wii has some fun games, but nothing like what i play on the 360. & the ps3 doesn't have a single game that appeals to me yet.
@Brine: you are probably suffering from the DRM & don't even notice. any content downloaded from XBL authenticates against your hard drive & your 360 box. did you buy any games off XBLA before you swapped consoles? if you did, disconnect your cat5 cable & try playing the game...guaranteed it won't work. it's not a huge issue, but as adamsummers pointed out, their connectivity hasn't been all that great as of late & no XBL connection = no XBLA games that can't be authenticated.
A friend modded his 360 to keep it continuously cool by installing a water-cooling system to it (which runs on its own power supply, separate from the 360'x). He also keeps the side panels off.
It is simply a lousily designed game console. Imagine a high performance sports car but that has a puny radiator that is incapable of cooling the engine properly.
This is a fairly typical story regarding the Xbox Live support. Microsoft really has no interest in consumer satisfaction, it's all about sales numbers.
The reliability of the console should make any consumer think hard before purchasing this device. Why go through all the trouble? Does Greg know that he also not only lost his console but his right to play his XBLA games offline? Or how about his right to play XBLA games with another profile so for example his wife likes to play Bejeweled 2. Oops, sorry honey, Microsoft took that away from us because of their console hardware failures.
I'm not going to post here and start a flame war about competing platforms but I will say this. If you do your own research you'll see that other platforms have better downloadable content DRM. You'll find that their failure rates are much, much lower than 30%. You'll find that even though there aren't as many games available, many of them are of high quality and to me quality is greater than quantity.
Disclaimer: I own all current generation home consoles and handheld portables.
@mac-phisto: I replaced my console about a year ago, and I have unplugged the cable since then, and the XBLA games I downloaded prior to the failure still work fine. Who knows? *shrug*
This is exactly why I do not own any new-gen consoles right now. That and there are no games that appeal to me on the consoles. Welcome to the world of digital downloadable content that is not yours even if you pay for it, I refuse to pay for anything that has to be digitally downloaded. I definitely wouldn't consider downloading anything to an Xbox360 if I owned one considering its high failure rate.
I own a PSP and a DS however and I am pretty sure with the PSP if you do choose to pay for digitally downloaded content you can either back up the memory stick to your computer or the download is tied to your PSN account so you can redownload it any time. I know I have heard of people downloading the game Beats multiple times without paying more than once for it. Either way if your system fails you are not out all the stuff you paid for.
I can confirm that PSN saves your downloaded content to your PSN id.
From reading other forums, it sounds as if the refurb cycle is something to avoid. Seems once you send your console in and start getting refurbs this is what you have to look forward to.
I hate to do it, but I may just get a PRP on the 360 I bought from Best Buy after Christmas. Better to get a completely new unit than get into the refurb cycle.