"Family Friendly" Movie Censors Were Running Porn Business

According to the Provo, UT Daily Herald the founder of “Flix Club” a defunct company that edited swearing and nudity from films and resold them as “family friendly’ versions, has been arrested on charges that he and another man paid two 14-year-old girls for sex. Police also said that the men may have been using the “family friendly” video business as a front for producing porn.

Daniel Dean Thompson, 31, of Orem, was released from the Utah County Jail on bond Friday afternoon, according to the Utah County Jail Web site. Isaac R. Lifferth, 24, of Springville, is still in jail. Bail was set at $30,000.

Thompson, owner of the edited-movie retail store at 908 S. State St. in Orem, was arrested on two charges of forcible sexual abuse and two charges of unlawful sexual activity with a 14-year-old. Lifferth was arrested on two charges of forcible sexual abuse, a charge of unlawful possession of a prescription drug, two charges of aiding prostitution, two charges of unlawful sexual activity with a 14-year-old and two charges of patronizing a prostitute.

According to a report Thursday by John McCombs, an investigating officer with the Orem Police Department, Thompson told the girls that edited movies were sold at Flix Club as a front, but he and Lifferth actually made and distributed pornography.

Thompson, a former dealer of edited movies with CleanFlicks, started Flix Club at the same address after the dealership was terminated at a time when the Hollywood movie industry was bringing legal pressure on businesses that edited movies.

Flix Club was forced to close last year in the wake of a landmark federal court ruling that said several movie-editing businesses violated U.S. copyright laws when they altered movies to remove nudity, profanity and other offensive content and offered “sanitized” versions for sale.

A former employer said of Thompson, “He was always talking about fighting Hollywood for the good of the children.”

Clean-film business was front for porn, police say [Daily Herald via Philmguy]

Comments

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  1. Celticlady says:

    ok, I’ll be the first to say it.
    EEEEEWWW!

  2. darkened says:

    I’m probably the only person that will say but the girls knew what they were doing and I personally feel nothing wrong occurred here. Immoral perhaps, but legally there should be no issue. Sadly our legality is determined by 60 year old closet homosexual and teen repressive old men. And it would shatter their fragile little mind that a 14 y/o is more than capable of consenting to sex even to the point where they would sell themselves for it.

  3. shan6 says:

    @darkened: I pretty much agree. While I wouldn’t be one to sleep with a 14 year old, it isn’t uncommon for girls/boys that age to be completely ready to consent. And it shouldn’t come as a shock, because the rest of the world is ahead of us on that. I don’t know why America is so damn sexually repressed.

  4. MickeyMoo says:

    @darkened: I’m sure they did know what they were doing in so far as they could at that age (ie: not a case of child abuse per se) but 14 is still way too young to make an argument for informed consent. There’s no way someone that age in our culture can have a sufficiently developed perspective to allow for it. And it’s illegal and creepy.

  5. braindesign says:

    @darkened: you are sick. there are reasons that it is ILLEGAL (wrong!) for anyone under 16 (in most states) to consent to sex with an adult. yes, 14 year olds are more mature in this day and age than when our lawmakers were riding in wagons to work, but CHILDREN should not be engaging in sex for any reason, especially when they are manipulated into prostituting themselves to some pervs that are old enough to be their fathers.

  6. Celticlady says:

    Obviously neither of you are Parents. (yes, I’m going to play the “mommy card”. Cause either you are a parnent or you are not.)

    I’m on my second teenaged child, (one more on her way to those years! :}}) I can tell you that most 14 year olds don’t have enough sense to understand that if you leave a paper cup of soda on a table, it will eat into the finnish, let alone, the long term reprucussions of their actions.

    And let’s face it, pregnancy and disease are serious reprucussions.

    Their brains have not fully developed to make those decisions.

    This has nothing to do with sexual repressions.

  7. llcooljabe says:

    This is consumer news how?

  8. Celticlady says:

    Only someone who does not have children would say that, @darkened.

    (yes I am going to play the “mommy card”. Cause either you are a parent or you are not.)

    Most 14 year olds don’t understand that decisions can have real and serious reprecussions.

    They dont’ understand that if you leave a paper cup of soda on a table, it will eat through the finish.

    Pregnancy and DISEASE…(’cause do ya think this scum was practicing ‘safe sex’???)

    Yeah, this is not about sexual repression!

  9. Celticlady says:

    oops sorry for the double posting

  10. Rectilinear Propagation says:

    @darkened: So 14 year olds can consent to sex and prostitution but it’s perhaps immoral?

    Um, what?

  11. 92BuickLeSabre says:

    Whoa, whoa, whoa. Actually the rest of the world is behind us on this one. And its partly because kids are a lot less mature now than when we rode around in wagons.

    We protect our kids now, we don’t send them to work in the coal mines and marry them off at 13 anymore. They aren’t expected to grow up and start a family before 18.

    We extend our protections and we extend childhood, for all of the reasons Celticlady gave, in terms of dangers and ability to consider those dangers. And if anything, they are less able to maturely evaluate those dangers. (Which, I think, is on balance, a good thing!)

    What these guys did, they did, as adults, with children. (And it’s way f’ed up.)

  12. inelegy says:

    I am shocked, SHOCKED I SAY, to find out that two people who were obsessed with sex were, well, obsessed with sex.

  13. Rectilinear Propagation says:

    Flix Club was forced to close last year in the wake of a landmark federal court ruling that said several movie-editing businesses violated U.S. copyright laws…

    Am I the only one who questions the use of “landmark” in that sentence?

    The two 14-year-olds told police they decided to trade sex for money in order to move away from home…

    Obviously the result of mature and logical thinking.
    *facepalm*
    *headdesk*

  14. Steel_Pelican says:

    How is it that these guys had a storefront selling edited versions of copyrighted material, while many of us get busted for downloading a vhs-quality copy of Caddyshack?

    @darkened: States set a legal age of consent for this reason. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and when it comes to legal purposes, that line needs to be clear and irrefutable. If you don’t have a clear legal age of consent, what’s to stop someone from having sex with a 13-year-old? a 10-year-old? You might be in favor of lowering the legal age of consent to 14, but how is that any less arbitrary than the current limits?

    Without statutory rape laws, how would we prosecute pederasts? Would we wait for their victims to file a formal complaint? Should we give child molesters a blank check to have sex with all the kids they want until one of them rides their tricycle to the police station with some DNA samples?

  15. kittenfoo says:

    You really can’t trust anybody. Ever.

  16. friendlynerd says:

    The more someone screams about being moral, the more likely they are to be total closet pervs in my experience.

  17. tk427 says:

    @kittenfoo:

    This is probably off topic, but it’s related.

    [www.wfsb.com]

  18. witeowl says:

    I am not a parent but a teacher. I am saddened, shocked, and disturbed to read some of the comments here.

    14 year-olds may be able to say the words “yes” and “no”. However, they are not able to give legal consent any more than an 8 year-old child can give consent to get into someone’s car in trade for a candy.

    It’s not repression; it’s a realization that adults take advantage of the lack of foresight and understanding of consequences by children (yes, they are still children).

  19. MDSasquatch says:

    Dateline’s “To Catch a Predator” is a great show. Take a look at the guys that show up and ask yourself: “Do I want my 14-year old engaged in ANY activity with these guys”

    SICK!

    Final point is this, out of the 50 states, why choose Utah to set up a porn operation?

  20. shan6 says:

    @shan6:

    Disclaimer: This is what happens when I leave my computer unlocked at work. I didn’t make that post, and don’t agree with what was said under my name.

    That is one mistake I won’t be making again.

  21. WhaDa says:

    WHY IS THIS ON THE CONSUMERIST????????????????????????????

  22. CumaeanSibyl says:

    I’m 25 now, but I still remember what I was like at age 14.

    … yeah, I was way too dumb to be having sex. Capable of informed consent? I was barely capable of remembering my homework.

    Anyway, whether you think it should be or not, boinking 14-year-olds is illegal, and this guy’s a fucking sleaze.

  23. darkened says:

    @Steel_Pelican: I think it should not be based on some arbitary mag

  24. darkened says:

    @Steel_Pelican: I think it shouldn’t be based on arbitrary magic number but based on situation and whether the adult used their status, position, etc as power of coercion over the younger party. Pretty much the same way sexual harassment is dealt with between 2 adults where a person in authority coerces the other into consent. Obviously a person that hasn’t fully reached puberty can in no way consent due to the entire lack of physical make up for the act.

  25. Aphex242 says:

    While the whole 14 year old sex bit is disturbing, I’m glad to hear these bozos were put out of business in their ‘legit’ trade. It’s frankly almost as reprehensible, imho.

    Kinda like putting jogging shorts on a nude statue or something…. just moronically puritanical to edit art to suit your comfort zone, and it completely misses the point in the process.

  26. tasselhoff76 says:

    They made $20 per sexual encounter, and had decided to do it because they wanted to run away from home. Clearly, they had really though things through. These are the people you think manifested informed consent?

    Then there is the 16 year old who was sleeping with one of the guys and has ended up in therapy over it, and possibly her home life.

    If you read the whole story, you may see how ridiculous it sounds to even think a 14 year old, let alone these 14 year olds could manifest consent.

  27. Steel_Pelican says:

    @darkened: Good luck with that. I think less middle schoolers will be sodomized by retirees when it’s flat out illegal, rather than waiting until after the fact.

    Would you rather have a world where 13-year-old girls have to go before a judge, and hear “sorry, sweetheart, I know that this man had rough sex with you and scarred your psyche for life, but the jury says you weren’t coerced, and there’s grass on the field, so he’s allowed to play ball. Next case.”

  28. Hanke says:

    @shan6: I always wondered, if someone was charged with having sex with a minor, and said minor was to be charged with a crime as an adult…

    14 year old can be considered to know right and wrong to the point that they can be charged as an adult, why could the same not be considered when it comes to sex?

  29. ExtraCelestial says:

    @Celticlady:
    As someone that was a 14 yo girl not too long I have to disagree. I have NO problem with the legal age of consent simply for the fact that it keeps men like this away from young girls. I do agree that they are opportunistic perverts. However to say that the girls had no idea what was going on or were manipulated into sex is just blind refusal to come to terms with reality. Parents refuse to look at their children as sexual beings (no offense to them, I’m sure I’ll do the same) and as a result put off sex talks until they’re 16 and 17 after they’ve learned everything they need to from their slutty counterparts. I recall not too long ago kids having consensual sex in my MIDDLE SCHOOL. And I went to Catholic school.

  30. Steel_Pelican says:

    @darkened: btw, these guys might have some points you could use to strengthen your case.

  31. @darkened: “I’m probably the only person that will say but the girls knew what they were doing and I personally feel nothing wrong occurred here. Immoral perhaps, but legally there should be no issue.” Unfortunately for your opinion, legality isn’t decided by why you think should and shouldn’t be okay. On the books he did something illegal. He’ll probably get a lighter sentence, either through plea bargain or as a result of the girls willingness to put the little show on – but you can’t say there’s no legal issue.

    Just because you think early teenagers are mature enough to make such decisions doesn’t make it so, especially not in the eyes of the law. Don’t confuse your opinions with legal fact.

  32. darkened says:

    @Steel_Pelican: Many of the points they make are valid until it’s brought to prepubescent

  33. darkened says:

    @Randal Milholland: I never said my beliefs were current views of legality, i hope in my life time age-ism is viewed in the same vein as race-ism, sexism and all other ism’s that people abhor now but were culturally accepted for many years. Any person that agrees with age-ism then disagrees with racism and sexism is a hypocrit.

  34. ClayS says:

    @Hanke:

    It’s one thing for a 14 year old to have sex with someone of the same age, and a far different thing to “consent” to sex with adults. In the latter case, the child can be too easily persuaded to have sex, so it cannot be a truly consentual decision on her part. I’m not so crazy about the former situation either.

  35. Viewed one way: The constant exposure to sex and violence warped their little minds. Imagine the effect on kids. Clearly, we need to write computers that can erase nipples in movies.

    Viewed another: People who are drawn to censorship are all closeted sex fiends, like Ted Haggerty.

    Let’s suggest that both views hint at the truth. Either way, this story is completely unsurprising.

    Lastly, @Parents: if you think your 14 year old is not suitably mentally armed to make decisions, isn’t that partly your fault for not equiping them for the real, creepy world that’s out there. Sheltering from bacteria doesn’t provide immunity. Real love is equiping your kids to function in the real world, not discover it all in college.

  36. @Tinkishdelight: You said “I recall not too long ago kids having consensual sex in my MIDDLE SCHOOL. And I went to Catholic school,” as if you think these things are unrelated.

    Think again. Culture is like bacteria. Exposure confers some immunity. Shelter confers vulnerability. Think on that.

  37. @darkened: So, a law saying someone in the throws of hormonal change and learning about adulthood isn’t quite ready to consent and understand fully the consequences of sexual behavior is equal to firing employees who’ve turned 65? I really have trouble accepting that.

    Are there the occasional teens who’ve matured a lot faster? Sure. But the law’s the law and most kids aren’t prepared emotionally, at least, for what they’re getting in to.

    You’re doing your best to turn laws backed by many psychological studies on what’s best for the development of children (and yes, at fourteen, they are still children) into some big social injustice that limits sexual freedom. It doesn’t.

    I will say there’s something very wrong about two kids even offering this and child protective services should out their parents through the wringers. But get off your high horse about old white men turning an -ism into a restrictive law.

    Oh, and it’s spelled “hypocrite.”

  38. @Darkened: R U on NAMBLA’s payroll?

  39. Steel_Pelican says:

    @darkened: Statutory rape laws ≠ age-ism, and trying to draw a comparison with racism is nonsense.

    First of all, neurologists will agree that the decision-making centers of the adolescent brain are not as developed as those of the mature brain. [www.sfn.org], [www.wpic.pitt.edu] . Therefore, most adolescents are physically incapable of informed consent.

    Secondly, as anyone who has lived through that period will tell you, the difference in life experience and maturity between a 14-year-old and an 18-year-old is HUGE. Even with a fully-developed, adult brain, the accumulated life experience of most 14-year-olds is nowhere near anything that could constitute informed consent for sexual conduct.

  40. Celticlady says:

    TINKISHDELIGHT,
    I’m not blind. I understand that children (emphasis here on the word children) in Middle school are having consensual sex. All that means is that they both consented. It does NOT mean they have ANY real understanding of the consequences.

    Again this isn’t about a ‘sex bad’ mentality. Hey I have 3 kids…obviously I think sex is a good thing. What I don’t think is that children are ready to make informed decisions. BOYS or GIRLS.

    BUT adults having sex with children, IS bad. No matter how you try to dress it up with the “but Mom, everyone is doing it arguement”
    Because if you are still saying that, you don’t get it, and I’m sorry to be this way, but until you are a parent, you won’t. I’m not saying people without childen are bad or don’t care about kids, it’s just different.

  41. Balisong says:

    I used to think it was hilarious that jews were going to hell for not believing in Jesus when I was a sophmore in high school. I’m sure I was a friggin’ genius when I was 14.

    14 year olds should not be having sex, consent given or not.

  42. AstroPig7 says:

    This thread is a prime example of overreactions to statements (some of which were never made) based solely on subject matter.

  43. spinachdip says:

    @PotKettleBlack: if you think your 14 year old is not suitably mentally armed to make decisions, isn’t that partly your fault for not equiping them for the real, creepy world that’s out there.

    Not really. No matter how good a parent you are, there’s some incredible amount of physical and emotional changes happening for teenagers. The desire for independence, sexual development and raging hormones combine to form a perfect storm of confusion and stupidity when it comes to sex.

    I agree with you to an extent – shielding kids from sexuality can only backfire. But shit, don’t blame parents for protecting their kids from their inevitably stupid actions.

  44. darkened says:

    @Steel_Pelican: Actually it does equal that, picking some arbitrary characteristic to define a person and then segregate and limit their rights is exactly that.

    And while I’m not stating all adolescents are capable of making a correct informed decision, they should have full legal right to make an uninformed bad decision.

    The hypocrisy comes in that adolescents can commit murder and be tried as adults, adolescents can be married and join the military (with parental consent) prior to the age of consent for some states.

    The same hypocrisy that says none of these people have the capability to drink alcohol yet randomly on some magic date can drive a car, have sex, get married, join the military. With entirely abitrarily picked dates that have no relevance to the person specifically based on their competency in ANY MANNER.

    Laws like this is what causes infantilism of our nation and is what encourages disruptive behavior from our nations younger parts. Treating a person like a child and taking away all responsibility from their actions will invariably make them act irresponsibly. Maybe if these laws didn’t exists parents would care more to teach their children to make decisions with thought instead of hoping the public schools and laws protect their children.

    And any person that thinks a 14 y/o with an adult is wrong situation unspecific, i hope you view the same for the 20 y/o and 40 y/o or 60 y/o or 80 y/o. Because in all likelihood one person’s youth is being used by the other. But this is reality people use people, and people are more than happy to be used by people when they feel their own gain is justified.

    I abhor laws like these because they punish a person for another person’s decision. The proverbial it takes 2 to tango, to absolve one of their responsibility than condemn the other, is just outright absurd and disgusting.

  45. ExtraCelestial says:

    @Celticlady:
    How *I* try to dress it up with the everyone is doing it argument? Did you even read what I wrote?

    To think that having a child is the best way to understand them is just silly. Plenty of people are shitty parents. Shooting out a baby doesn’t give you some sort of super ability to understand your mini DNA. There are kids doing all sorts of things under their parents’ roof and there are parents helplessly snooping attempting to get closer. Living under the same roof doesn’t take away the 25+ years in age difference. I was posting my comment as someone with insight that is living amongst these people not as a feared authority figure but as a peer.

    ” I understand that children (emphasis here on the word children) in Middle school are having consensual sex. All that means is that they both consented. “

    My whole argument was that 14yos ARE ABLE TO CONSENT. Feel free to reread, the comment is still there. You just agreed to that. I didn’t say that they were able to fully understand the consequences; people in their 20s and 30s often don’t even fully understand the consequences. My point has been made.

  46. tk427 says:

    @darkened:

    Just because a 14 year old child can physically perform a sex act that does NOT mean that they are knowledgeable enough to give informed consent.

    WTF does this story have to do with ageism? Should a 14 year old steer a battleship through the Persian Gulf just because the kid is tall enough to see over the wheel?

  47. ExtraCelestial says:

    @PotKettleBlack:
    No I get that. Totally. That was sort of the point. I added the Catholic thing because of people adding the parent thing. No matter how well you think you’re parenting. How firm and consistent you think you’re being. It can and will still happen.

  48. Celticlady says:

    yes, I understand that there are lousy parents out there. Heck on any given day, my 14 year old will tell you I’m one of them. Being a parent doesn’t make you understand children automatically, and I understand that your closeness in age to those kids will give you a POV, that I don’t have.

    It’s just that those people who think those 14 year olds are old enough to consent and UNDERSTAND what they are really doing, should walk a mile in the “mom jeans” of a parent of a 14 year old. Those people would see this in a whole new light

  49. darkened says:

    @tk427: If they were intent on joining the navy, passed all the types of physical and mental exams required to make into the navy and were able to excel to be promoted to navigator or helmsmen w/e it would be, why shouldn’t they be able?

    And with the way video games are and the way technology is proceeding I wouldn’t put it past a 14 y/o from being able to pilot an aircraft or ship.

    @TinkishDelight: Indeed, that is my entire point. You can only do your best to teach your children to make decisions with thought and care and have faith in them, when they fail to understand and have faith they will learn from their mistakes.

  50. Steel_Pelican says:

    @darkened:
    “…picking some arbitrary characteristic to define a person and then segregate and limit their rights…” Wrong. We don’t let blind people drive cars, and we don’t let drunks practice medicine. This isn’t arbitrary, it’s proven that blind people make bad drivers, drunks make bad surgeons, and teenagers make bad life decisions.

    “they should have full legal right to make an uninformed bad decision.” Adolescents do have that right. It’s adults who don’t have the right to coerce adolescents into that decision. A 15-year-old won’t go to jail for getting a tattoo, but the asshole who gave it to him can. That’s why we let kids off the hook when they engage in a sex act with an adult- they made a mistake and didn’t know any better. That defense disappears when you’re an informed, consenting adult.

    “…adolescents can be married and join the military (with parental consent) prior to the age of consent for some states.” Bingo. Parental consent. There, an informed, consenting adult is making the decision for the child, which is what parents are supposed to do.

    “With entirely abitrarily picked dates that have no relevance to the person specifically based on their competency in ANY MANNER” Wrong again. Minors who can prove their competency can be legally emancipated from their parents and become a legal adult if they can prove to a court that they’re ready. So, the default age for adulthood is 18 in the US, unless you can prove otherwise. Seems fair to me.

    “Laws like this is what causes infantilism of our nation…” Look to Thailand for a good model of a nation where they don’t have laws like this. And these laws don’t remove responsibility. Minors can still be charged with crimes, and held responsible for their actions.

    “…and any person that thinks a 14 y/o with an adult is wrong situation unspecific…” wrong again. As you ignored from my previous post, the functional differences between a 60 year old brain and a 40 year old brain are minute compared to the differences between a 14 year old brain and a 34 year old brain.

    “I abhor laws like these because they punish a person for another person’s decision.” Your logic is way off here. So the 50-year old priest is being punsihed for the 13-year old altar boy’s decision? Are you honestly trying to make the argument that pederasts are innocent adults seduced by cunning, manipulative children? Give me a break. Adults are expected to be responsible enough to turn down the sexual advances of a child.

  51. m4ximusprim3 says:

    @MDSasquatch: Because traditionally, the more sexually restricted a society is (and utah takes the cake), the more demand there is for illicit sexual goods (pr0n etc.)

    It’s the same reason amsterdam has less drug related problems than new york- it’s (semi) legal and regulated, so it takes all the thrill out of it for those who get off on excess.

  52. darkened says:

    @Celticlady: I will never be a mom, but potentially a father and I pray I will not become a hypocrit and will stand by my words of raising my children (if i ever have any) with as much as hope as I can they will care about making right decisions for themselves and try my best to teach them of consequences and then to have faith in them to live their lives. I’m sure it’s easier to say now but if I ever found out a child of mine was having a relationship with a much older adult, I’d probably try to stop it but I’d never involve the police, but I hope I’ll be able to look and care more about trying to find out why they have the need to seek that kind of attention and fulfillment from a person that far out of their peers and to truly help my child as opposed to just alienate them by trying to reign over them saying I own them until they leave my house.

    My parents had a few times where they could let me choose to follow my course of actions and probably reach failure (which sort of happened, but taught me alot from start to the end) or attempt to hard intervene, which if they would have then, i would have shut them out of my life probably forever.

    You just can’t control your childrens’ choice of relationships, attempting to do so by force will just lead to alienation.

  53. tk427 says:

    @darkened:

    You have got to be kidding. You would give a 14 year old child the opportunity to decide to put their own life in jeopardy, and play a part in destroying other lives?

  54. darkened says:

    @Steel_Pelican:

    So the 50-year old priest is being punsihed for the 13-year old altar boy’s decision?

    You entirely missed my point earlier, this is a clear example of the adult using his position as a respected member of a church, that is supposed to be an example of model citizen and morality coercing a youth into acts they would almost for all certainty not have done on their own.

    That is a far cry from a 14 yearold girl that cares so much about having new pair of shoes or some shiny jewelry she would readily sell her body as a means to get it.

  55. ExtraCelestial says:

    @Celticlady:
    Well I think pretty much the only person arguing that was darkened who just may have some sort of ulterior motive. As I mentioned previously at 20, 25, 30 and on you can still have those regrettable “hook ups” because you didn’t fully understand what you were getting yourself into. Biologically with pregnancy and STD risks (despite what some people will annoyingly argue) I have no doubt that they fully understand. Emotionally however is something completely different.

  56. Shadowman615 says:

    @darkened: ‘Ageism’ only applies when talking about ADULTS of differing ages. Children are certainly not the same as adults, and likening that to racism is absolutely ludicrous.

    Yes, of course, having arbitrary cut-off ages for things like voting, driving, drinking, and sexual consent may not be a perfect solution, but it’s a valid solution, the best solution available, and there is no reason to change it.
    Many of us might have agreed with some of your points as teenagers, but as most of us became adults we outgrew the angry-young man against the hypocritical world dogma.

  57. darkened says:

    @tk427: The military is already attempting to pre-recruit students of that age.

  58. pestie says:

    @MickeyMoo: 14 is the age of consent in Canada. They seem to think it’s old enough. I wouldn’t sleep with a 14-year-old either, but my point is just that this concept of “old enough” is highly dependent on culture.

  59. @darkened: “Obviously a person that hasn’t fully reached puberty can in no way consent due to the entire lack of physical make up for the act.”

    So a 30-year-old person who never went through puberty due to a hormonal problem is incapable of consenting to sexual activity?

  60. Nemesis_Enforcer says:

    Wow thats a shocker a supposed “religious” person who is really a sick and twisted fuck! Hmm that never happens must be a one time occurence. I always thought really hard core christians were jut hiding the sickness they have and trying to impose thier messed up morality on others.

  61. @darkened: “Actually it does equal that, picking some arbitrary characteristic to define a person and then segregate and limit their rights is exactly that.”

    Here’s the difference, darkened: Picking an ARBITRARY characteristic, such as skin color, is indeed morally indefensible.

    However, picking a characteristic that does in fact have some bearing on the issue at hand IS morally (and legally) defensible. So, for example, Hollywood producers don’t get sued for only auditioning white men to play Shakespeare. But more to the point, children are qualitatively different from adults. It’s not an arbitrary differentiation; children are not capable of caring for themselves without adult assistance. Where we draw the specific LINE between children and adults is at least somewhat arbitrary, but the fact that we differentiate between them is NOT arbitrary and IS morally defensible.

    Now, each situation should be considered individually when we are making distinctions between two groups based on single characteristics (is youth an important differentiating factor for free speech rights?), but it’s not a morally indefensible position, and it’s not equivalent to racism.

  62. @Eyebrows McGee: “So, for example, Hollywood producers don’t get sued for only auditioning white men to play Shakespeare.”***

    ***I meant play the role of Shakespeare in a movie. I just realized that could be read to mean acting in any Shakespeare. :) He was just the first dead white male I thought of. Similarly, nobody gets sued for auditioning only black men to play Ray Charles.

  63. darkened says:

    @Eyebrows McGee: I agree a child is not an adult, but post adolescents are fully adults lacking only in experience and I feel they should be treated in a sense that fosters responsibility in their actions, not that they have a free reign to do anything they can get away with short of murder and highway robbery until they hit the magic age of 18.

    Making a predetermination on that is as fair as making one on being blind, it is no longer arbitrary it is a matter of fact.

  64. youbastid says:

    @Steel_Pelican: “Adolescents do have that right.”

    Actually, that’s not true. It is illegal for minors to have sex, even with each other. I recall hearing of a 15 year old charged with statutory rape for having sex with his 14 year old girlfriend. Pretty effed up…she wasn’t charged with anything.

  65. darkened says:

    @Eyebrows McGee: That’s a good question, I do not have the medical insight to answer on whether that would qualify as sexual abuse as having sex with a person in the normal age bracket of prepubescence is irrefutably sexual abuse.

  66. darkened says:

    @youbastid: And in Utah (queue jokes) a 13 yearold female was found guilty of sexually molesting her 12 year old boyfriend after they found out she was pregnant by him. And she may even have to be a registered sex offender.

    Another great example is a cop that was trolling the interwebs to pick up sex offenders found a 15 y/o girl that liked to strip on her webcam for strangers and she was arrested for making child pornography… of herself.

  67. tk427 says:

    @darkened:

    I didn’t ask what the military is attempting, I was asking you.

  68. darkened says:

    @tk427: If it was that important to them that they were able to accelerate their education and physical demands of them to the point where they could succeed, sure. I’d never agree to that forced upon a person like it is done to many youth in Africa, some far younger than that.

  69. braindesign says:

    @darkened: Woody Allen???!! would you send me your autograph?

  70. stinkingbob says:

    What an interesting question. Is a 14 year old able to fully comprehend and make decisions of an adult nature?
    If we were back in the times of the 70′s or early 80′s, I would have to say no. But nowadays, kids are maturing faster and faster. Blame it on society and the culture. For that reason, I believe that 14 year olds are capable of fully understanding their actions and the ramifications of their actions. Not just sexual, but everything. 14 year olds should be tried as adults when the commit heinous crimes. In the case of those 2 14 year old girls, they knew damn well what those guys wanted and they went along with it. No one is that naive. No one. And I bet that they will be crying out that they were taken advantage of, yaddi yaddi yaddah.
    But, I would throw them in jail to.
    Of course I am not condoning that adults should look for an underage teen for sex. My point is that yes, at 14, you are capable of making of making adult decisions.

  71. stinkingbob says:

    @Steel_Pelican:

    “Secondly, as anyone who has lived through that period will tell you, the difference in life experience and maturity between a 14-year-old and an 18-year-old is HUGE. Even with a fully-developed, adult brain, the accumulated life experience of most”

    Lets see now…
    14 year old: video games, eat food, mooch off parents, live at home, doesn’t work
    18 year old: video games, eat food, mooch off parents, live at home, doesn’t work

    I don’t see much difference in the maturity level between the 2

  72. @spinachdip: 100 years ago (and in parts of rural Missouri and Utah today) 13 year olds were married off and expected to go make a life. If you’re suggesting that a 14 year old doesn’t have the mental capability now that they had 100 years ago, isn’t that an argument in favor of devolution?

    I’m not saying that 14 year olds are geniuses. But, I’ve heard a million stories about all kinds of teenaged nuttiness coming out of the most overprotective homes. That said, I’m not saying you should buy your eight year old porn, but at some point, real conversations about the real world might spare a lot of people a lot of misery. Far better that than home schooling and setting someone loose in college to discover the world of social interactions between people with differing view points and different backgrounds.

    PS- I went to public schools in New York City. And I grew up to have a Masters degree from a top school, a steady job with good income and benefits, and relatively few hangups and life disasters. And I don’t think these things are unrelated. Oh, and I looked at the David without wanting to break off his man-junk like all the statues at the Vatican. Go figure.

  73. braindesign says:

    @stinkingbob: ignorant…plain and simple…you must be a shining example of why safety scissors were invented

  74. The bigger question suggested by the discussion (total thread hijack by Darkened, not complaining, just observing) is:

    Which is more outrageous:
    #1 – 14 year old girls, selling themselves for $20 so they can run from home
    or
    #2 – Alleged sexual censors who, while not editing nudity and curse words out of hollywood movies, pay to have sex with barely pubescent minors.

    The obvious answer is that #1 is the most outrageous. And that should be surprising, although with the frequency of anti-fornicators turning out to be big fornicators (generally of the 1-2 sigma plus deviation variety), #2 may be outrageous, but it’s miles from surprising anymore. Hell, I’d be more surprised by an anti-fornicator who has a stable, happy marriage with no drugs, no whips, no children, no sheep, no underlings, no bathroom stalls, and really nothing too far out of the vanilla bland. Now that would be surprising.

  75. mantari says:

    I think he looks very cute. I’d hit it.

  76. dantsea says:

    Given that this is Utah, do you think they’ll get the heftier prison term for the porn, or for the child molestation?

  77. dantsea says:

    @stinkingbob: Thinking back on your own teen years, you don’t see any difference between the person you were at 14 and the person you were at 18?

  78. tk427 says:

    @braindesign:
    *snort*
    must…
    stop…
    laughing!
    *gasp*
    need…
    oxygen!

  79. KJones says:

    This story sounds a lot like that of Rupert Murdoch, spewing extreme right wing “pro-christian” stuff on FAUX and then supplying porn channels to customers on cable systems.

    The ones preaching the 12th century “morality” are so often the ones with their pubics in public. Ever hear the news story about a fundy christian whose kiddie porn screen saver came up during a public presentation? In front of other christians?

    There are so many cases of this sort of sordid hypocrisy that you lose count.

  80. mikelotus says:

    The age of consent in Japan is 13 and Canada is 14 fyi. But then both countries provide adequate sex education so its not an issue. 147 children died by violence in our nation’s capital in 2007 though.

  81. Osi says:

    Holy cow some people are stupid. If a 14 year old do not know all about sex, and it’s pros and cons at that age, then their parents have FAILED! And yes, I am a parent.

    Fact is, everybody are still kids until they hit 30, once that happens, you really start to experience and explore all life have to offer.

    Some states, like my own, the age of consent is 16. I was active at 14. The point is, a child (29 and younger) with adequate education, can make their decisions as young as 9.

    Not all kids are retarded …

  82. frogman31680 says:

    The police chief for our local town got caught having sex with a 14 year old girl once. Everyone knew that she was 14 and everyone in school with her knew that she was “like a doorknob” if you know what I mean.

    When he got caught, he said “I thought she was older than 14.”

    I think that in some cases maybe there should not be a law banning in right off the bat, but you should have to prove consent.

    Maybe go so far as the “love Contract” on the Chappelle Show.