In February 2007, the Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center in Los Angeles abandoned Gabino Olvera, a mentally ill paraplegic man, on the street: “[The hospital] took him across town in a van and left him in a soiled hospital gown without a wheelchair in the heart of the city’s homeless area.” Olvera, with the help of an advocacy organization called Public Counsel, is now suing them for neglect and elder abuse (although we’re not sure how the second one applies since he’s only 42). His case is “one of about 50 reported incidents in the past 12 months of sick, confused and homeless patients being left by ambulances” in downtown LA.
Witnesses who came to Olvera’s aid said they saw him dragging himself on the ground with hospital papers and documents clenched in his teeth while the driver sat in her van and applied makeup before driving off.
The incident was captured by security cameras at a nearby homeless shelter.
Olvera’s lawyers say that one purpose of the suit is to force area hospitals to stop illegally dumping the homeless.
“Paraplegic man dumped in LA gutter sues hospital” [Reuters]
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@chouchou: Godwinned!!
I think the air pollution in L.A. got to those people’s heads at Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center.
PITHLIT, I could see you’re a compassionate guy and have genuine concern for your fellow brothers and sisters but I’ve talked to alot of homeless people and my conclusion is homeless people are homeless because they don’t want to work. They’d rather get loaded all day long. There are exceptions like how Snoop-blog and his family tried to get assistance but it didn’t get to them in time but I truly believe most homeless people don’t want to work.
With that said, I feel its fucked up for a hospital to do that but administrators at these hospitals have their hands tied. Alot of hospitals are losing money because of the way our system is structured and it is the administrators job to make sure their hospital is profitable. Is it right? Fuck no but if the administrators don’t make money for the hospital, the administrators are out of a job. So whats a person to do? I challenge anyone to try and make difficult decisions like this when their job is on the line.
Our healtcare industry is all fucked up right now and I don’t see it getting any better but we can’t blame the hospitals or doctors or administrators for this fuck up. The real blame goes to the government for letting this happen. The Nixon administration let healthcare get privatized thus leading to the proliferation of HMOs where profit is their main goal, not improving peoples lives. The thing to do to stop this is all the citizens of this great country need to write their congressman/woman and their House Representative about our fucked up healthcare and then see if they’re doing anything about it. If not, vote their asses out because obviously, they’re not looking out for their constituents best interests. If the people on this blog are complaining about our healtcare system and don’t bother to let their state rep know about it and use your voting power, then YOU’RE part of the problem.
We should, in this super power country*, have free health care. But we don’t. So to all the bleeding hearts complaining about the hospitals actions, tell you what; *you* pay the bill. Because I’m tired of paying it with my tax dollars.
They *should* have dropped him off in the shelter, not by it. But I wasn’t there. For all I know, they dropped him off at the curb in front of the shelter. And for all I know, he still has partial use of his legs. Did he drag himself into the hospital in the first place? I doubt that.
It’s an effed up situation, but it’s taking place in an effed up country. Let’s not act so surprised.
@glass:
* for the time being…
@ChrisC1234: yeah, you clearly haven’t taken care of some asshole homeless alcoholic who sneaks drinks when they think no one is watching, piss and poop in their bed because they know the nurse will clean them up, expose themselves to the candy stripers to get some sick sexual pleasure (or more likely in anger as it shames the victim). I’m not defending this particular hospital or this particular incident, but if you haven’t worked in a hospital caring for these people, you just don’t know the truth of the matter. Hospitals are NOT boarding homes for homeless, yet hospitals are often tricked into boarding homeless (they come in feigning all kinds of illnesses, or even threatening to commit suicide, knowing that it will get them 2-3 days of warm bed/food/drugs). MOST OF YOU JUST DON’T F4#@ING KNOW. So please don’t judge something you don’t know about, you’re ill equipped to stand judge and executioner here, but most of you seem willing to do just that.
This homeless guy, most homeless people, HAVE the ability in this great country to get back on their feet. This is a f$#@ing fact. MOST homeless do not have the will, desire, drive, whatever you want to call it, to do so. You wanna call alcoholism or drug dependency a disease? All right then, let’s FORCE these people to get clean, force them to STAY clean (it can be done) and require them to contribute in a positive way to the society that has allowed them to live (for far too long if you ask me) on its coattails. I’m tired of people complaining about society’s ills with no solution in mind. That’s a lot of empty f4#@ing wind. Hot air. Zeffer. Nada.
Tough times demand tough solutions, even ‘draconian’ ones. Society today would shun a ‘leper island’, even though in times past having a ‘leper island’ saved 1000s of lives. So now we must suffer the consequences of the HIV/AIDS epidemic, where MOST of the HIV infected got so through risky sex or IV drug abuse (MOST, not ALL yfa). Sooooo, now we have 1000s and 1000s of AIDS patients costing US more money for health care, we have AIDS patients BRINGING BACK TUBERCULOSIS into the USA, which had almost been eradicated from our country in the early 70s.
The masses don’t KNOW what to do to fix our problems, which are very very real and are piling up day by day. The politicians running right now have HALF solutions, or WORSE, which aren’t solutions at all. I predict that we’re totally screwed. We may make it another 20-50 years, but beyond that I see a very real ‘end of time’ approaching. And with the human population climbing up to 20 billion by 2050 (that may be off a little, I’m pulling that up from memory) human life, which in most places is already considered quite cheap, will become universally ‘cheap’ and one shudders to imagine what horrors that will bring.
You f4#@ing bleeding hearts who don’t have the BALLS to make the tough choices today to stave off this future will realize far far too late that sometimes hard solutions in the long run end up saving lives, saving society.
eofm.
Under EMTALA, the hospital isn’t required to care for a patient long term – they just can’t turn them away if they present in the ER.
The very simple fact of the matter is that hospitals are not the appropriate facilities for mentally ill individuals. Should they have dumped him downtown? No. However, if they couldn’t place him in a state facility or private charity, they don’t have much of a choice. They can discharge him from their facility where he would have left through the front door, and gone around back to the ER again where he would cause problems and take an available bed from someone who really did need emergency care.
It’s a messy problem, but just to reiterate, the hospital had no legal obligation to keep him.
@Elvisisdead: There is a difference between taking him TO the charity and dropping a patient on the street besides charity. Especially when the patient cannot WALK.
@banmojo: You forget that most homeless suffer from a range of mental problems. From maniacal depression to schizophrenia. They should be in hospitals and not on the street. A person with a mental problem CANNOT use all resources to get yourself off the streets. They need medication and care first to stabilize.
And Tuberculosis is can be caught by ANYONE. So AIDS bringing it in USA is bullshit. A person that has Tuberculosis that breathes on you and you have a chance of catching it.
As for sur-population and hard solution, your kids should euthanase you. You are the mass. You cannot take care of yourself. And they will inherit your money.
And if you are not part of solution, you are part of the problem.
If a paralyzed individual is left in the street, it’s highly probable that their condition will deteriorate to the point that they need to be admitted to the emergency room of a hospital. Putting all moral judgments aside, it doesn’t make economic sense for a hospital to abandon handicapped individuals in the street. Not to mention the negative publicity the hospital is receiving. Patients with the means to pay may choose to take their business elsewhere.
@kidgenius: The problem isn’t that he was dumped, its that he was dumped on the street, as opposed to a Mission, where he could have gotten assistance. Los Angeles does have some programs set up to help the sick and infirm homeless, although downtown Los Angeles has 60,000 homeless that the city keeps trying to steamroll over. Two years ago, the mayor pushed through a piece of legislation that outlaws tent cities, like Skid Row, so now the homeless who don’t find space in the Missions or the other shelters HAVE to pack up EVERYTHING they own every morning or get arrested.
The hospital isn’t a homeless shelter. I don’t want to sound insensitive, but I don’t want to pay for this guy’s emergency room habit. I can barely pay for my own medical care.
They should have called the LAHSA Emergency Response Team- which I just found in two seconds of googling- at (213) 225-6571.
@snsr: They should have called the LAHSA Emergency Response Team- which I just found in two seconds of googling
yeah, theyll just pump that into their treo….
@jawacg:
USC is a private university. A glance at their financial statement [www.usc.edu] shows that they receive NOTHING from any government entity related to Health Care Services. They do appear to have a research grant in the amount of $245,463 from some government entity. I also looked for Hollywood Presbyterian on their list of affiliates. They are not listed by USC. Draw you own conclusions.
This [www.latimes.com] article also sheds some light
“Olvera was taken to Hollywood Presbyterian after an automobile accident, according to the complaint. After his arrival, the suit alleges, hospital officials failed to diagnose and treat him for a urinary tract infection or take into account apparent signs of mental illness.
After several hours at the hospital, Olvera was taken by ambulance about 12:30 a.m. to the Midnight Mission in the skid row area of downtown Los Angeles.
The mission staff noted that Olvera did not have a wheelchair, and they did not have the facilities to deal with someone in his condition, the suit alleges.
Olvera was brought back to Hollywood Presbyterian and placed in a wheelchair in a corner of the waiting room, where he sat unattended for eight hours with no food or water, according to the suit.
“During this time, Mr. Olvera continued to exhibit signs of mental instability, which were ignored by the hospital,” Vera said.
The next morning, Olvera was driven to skid row.”
Yes, the attorneys probably were salivating when they saw this case.
Damn link won’t work. It’s the 6th story down on this page. Free registration may be required. [www.latimes.com]
I would guess, going by the press piece that this has been going on for awhile and probably will not stop anytime soon.
Hollywood Presbyterian must be quite the cold and uncaring place
@Petrol42: And to everyone else that thinks along the lines of “my conclusion is homeless people are homeless because they don’t want to work.” A majority of downtown LA’s homeless are VETS. Something like 70%. From Vietnam, Korea, even Iraq. I bet you’re the same assholes that whenever anyone says something against a war, you say “support our troops.” Well, now’s your chance!!!
Sure, there’s a good chance that a lot of them want to get loaded or fucked up on drugs, but they’re also bat shit crazy from PTSD and it’s a way for them to escape. It’s our government’s lack of support for our troops AFTER they send them off to war that’s contributing greatly to this problem.
@youbastid: And the statistic for the rest of the country is 25%, fwiw.
@ChrisC1234: OR so scared you will lose your job if you DON’T “follow procedure” you turn a blind eye to such atrocities.
I think that this highlights the problems with a for-profit medical system.
That for profit medical system you complain about is the best in the world, despite whining by socialist ‘tards like Moore.
Canada’s health system works because they can ship the cases they can’t handle a few miles south to the US.
The reason we are in this current state is because of activist judges and the federal government. If an indigent was injured, the ambulance would simply deliver him to the county hospital, and he would get government provided medicine … not as good as a private hospital, but still free.
Judges started allowing indigents to sue for not being brought to the nearest ER, and the US congress passsed laws requiring all ERs to handle all walk-ins, regardless of ability to pay.
End result:
County hospitals get closed down all over.
Only the insured get charged real cost for their care.
The homeless and indigent get the very least help the hospital can get away with … and this help is paid for by people who work but do not have insurance.
@kbarrett: But are we, as a country, ready to let people die on the steps of a hospital because they lack the ability to pay, in order to save money?
I have no compassion for homeless people. Let them die. And I say that with true experience. My father was homeless… everyone tried to help him. Everyone. People went into debt giving them their own money to keep him afloat. but he took advantage of everyone, didn’t pay any of his bills and ended up on the street. Now he blames everyone but himself when he did it completely to himself. It’s no one elses job to look after you… and that includes the hospitals.
@melanie.dawn: I think it goes without saying that not everybody who is homeless is the same person as your father. But if it makes it easier for you to turn a blind eye, go for it.
@melanie.dawn: Not every one is your father. As much as you despise him, he’s only one among many. You use your bitterness against every homeless person. It’s the same logic as a misogynist who hates women because his ex dumped him.
Most of homeless people could be kept off the streets, either by mental health programs, social re-education or additional resources. The magic of this, is the fact that it would cost a lot LESS than government programs investing in BIG business, who can take very well care of themselves. Or military programs to fight wars in countries that don’t give ship about USA. Or tax cuts to the ultra rich, who don’t need them already.
@Pithlit: i’ll bring the rope.
they could at least have left him the wheelchair ferchrissake.
These are sad stories but what else is the hospital supposed to do? The Rebublik of California shut down all its mental hospitals and has no other alternative programs set up. Hospitals would quickly turn into shelters.
I think they should have done what their mission statement states:
Mission Statement – “Quality care with compassion and respect.”
I live 8 blocks from the Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center. The Kaiser Permanente Medical Care is only five blocks away from the Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center. I wonder if the private ambulance service gave Gabino Olvera a choice of hospitals.
I actually know Public Counsel. I hate to say this, but he is probably an illegal immigrant as they are known to work a lot with helping illegals in Los Angeles–and I could see them jumping to take on this case–maybe not in a good way. While I sympathize with him, there needs to be a system where a shelter can take him in. The hospital did attempt to drop him off at the shelter but the shelter refused him. If the hospital did call other shelters (and there aren’t a lot in Los Angeles), the other shelters probably told the hospital they had no room. Nobody wanted him, not the shelter, not the hospital, etc . . . in the end because of his mental illness they should’ve dropped him off at a mental institution of some kind.
The hospital has painted a nice fat bullseye on its butt here, but to be fair we are all equally to blame for this situation. As a society we have an obligation to end homelessness, but it is unfair to place the economic cost of preventing it on one sector of the economy.
@kbarrett: While the Canadian system isn’t perfect–is the US system of HMOs?–very few patients get “shipped off” to the US, and that certainly is not what makes the system work. About as many American patients seek treatment at foreign hospitals to avoid the high cost of US health care.
Having lived in both the US and Canada, my conclusion is that if you can afford, or your job provides, top-notch coverage in the US, you are marginally better off there. But if like many Americans your job doesn’t include decent coverage and you can’t afford it, you are much better off here.
Also, if you are middle class and get really sick, in the US, you are basically screwed. The government doesn’t cover your care, and insurance won’t renew or will become much more expensive.
“Here’s the thing…if it’s a private hospital (like many are), and this guy can’t pay for it, why should the hospital be paying to treat someone who can’t pay them?”
Right. I mean it’s not as if compassion for their fellow human being is part of their mission.
The important thing to remember here is that it didn’t happen to you or anyone you know so it doesn’t matter.
Is there any way we can put a special tattoo on the forehead of anyone who agrees with the quote above so that the rest of us know not to bother trying to help them if we see them in an upside-down vehicle after an accident or in a burning building? Unless, of course, they can pay us on the spot to assist them.
Hey, business is business.
Boy there are a lot of issues here. Personally I do not want forced socialized health care or mandatory health insurance. If you want to set up a voluntary Govt. run health care system where fees are on a sliding scale based on income, that is fine by me.
Most of the homeless I have seen and dealt with are there because they refuse to conform to society. They would rather panhandle then work a job where they have to follow the rules.
@gingerCE: I “hate” criminal aliens as most of you know, but I don’t care if this guy is fresh from the border you don’t leave a human being with no real clothes wearing a shit stained gown and dragging his ass on a sidewalk.
@Sudonum: Thanks for digging out more info on this.
If the man came in after an auto accident he most likely is not homeless and most likely his medical bill would be covered by the auto insurance of the at fault party. So this inability to pay is a bullshit argument in this case.
The failure to diagnose a urinary tract infection is malpractice at best. Failing to note mental instability is also malpractice. Failing to give the man food or water while he was stuck in the corner in a wheelchair is negligence. Kicking him out of the van on skid row wearing a shitted up gown is just plain mean and hopefully criminal.
This story did remind me of something important if you are dealing with the elderly or infirmed. A urinary tract infection can cause/trigger mental instability, confusion or dementia. So if grandma all of a sudden seems like she has fallen off her rocker, have her checked for a UTI.
The biggest problem any time the consumerist posts an article dealing with a) healthcare, b) healthcare, and c) healthcare, is that tons of people throw their comments in without reading the rest. There are about 90 comments so far, and between every 20 comments or so is someone saying “it’s terrible, but what else should they do?” With about 19 comments in between saying what else they should do.
The facility I work in gets extra money for taking in people like this. They call it “Crisis Placement” – with some sort of added monetary onus for accepting the person.
The sad thing is that 99% of the time the person who is placed in our facility has been kicked out of several other places before and makes the lives of the consumers and staff hell. Nobody makes a snap judgment on anyone new at this place, but it sure makes everyone a bit wary when someone is moved in late at night(even though there is a year long waiting list). Five of the last six people that were taken in on this “Crisis” program were kicked out after months of their physical and verbal abuse against other residents and staff. Police were called many times and drugs/prostitutes were also in the mix. Only after a lawsuit was threatened did the company move the person(s) out.
I was as disgusted by this story as many others, but some of these homeless disabled people are very difficult to deal with safely and I believe there needs to be some sort of housing that can handle this type of person – challenging behaviors need to be handled by staff who are trained and willing to help them. There just aren’t a lot of those types of homes available and these disabled people end up getting dumped on the street. It’s a vicious cycle with no end in sight.
eh, Its LA…the whole town is a wasteland. I say dump all teh homeless in that crappy city. hahaa…