It looks like Bush’s economic stimulus package is going to take the form of instant cash bonuses: $800 for individuals and $1600 for married couples. That’s dumb, everyone should get Costco coupons! All kidding aside, the NYT says the ~$500 rebates granted after the 2001 recessions proved “surprisingly effective…people spent most of the money rather than salting it away in savings or using it to pay down credit card debt. A 2004 study by economists at the Department of Labor, Princeton University, and the University of Pennsylvania found that households spent between 20 and 40 percent of the rebate within three months and another third in the following three months.” Will this “wealth surge” be just what the countries needs to beat back the forces of recession holed up in our economy, terrorizing our financial well-being? Bring on Operation Cash Dump.
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this was dumb the first time we did it, and it is even dumber this time.
when can we be smrt? i mean, smart?
@youbastid: Are Mac mini’s made in China?
@Shadowman615: From what I see these days, even *that* kind of bush is pretty unpopular.
Big surge in support for Pierce, though.
@Saboth: Earned Income Credit. I worked in a hole-in-the wall tax place here in Los Angeles for few months doing some clerical stuff. I saw people come in with w2 showing wages of $8000 and get a big fat check for $6,000 refund. Here is the deal, most of these people were so aware of this credit, they have also become adept at gaming it. I forgot what the income limit is, but they knew that all they had to do was earned such and such and they’d probably get such and such big refund. Think about that, they were totally aware that they ONLY had to work up to a certain amount to maximize their “free money”. Talk about encouragement….
The republican party is unbelievable. This is OUR money being redistributed by the government. I call that socialism.
I have a better idea – instead of spending all the money to find out who deserves the checks, paying people to do the work required, the paper the checks will be printed on, the postage, etc…. – JUST DON’T TAX US AS MUCH.
Yep nothing like getting a huge tax break to cause the country to go further into debt and thus further into recession… AHHH but wait, because its pretty much a sure win for the Dems to get into office this year, so BASICALLY what this is setting things up to be is
1) The Dems have to raise taxes because we have a huge deficit making them look “evil” in the eyes of people
2) The economy crashes down thanks to how the republicans left it
All anyone has to do is look at NJ’s economy and look at how the Republicans left it, and what the Democrats are having to do to fix it to see what Bush and company are setting the US up for. Its a scam, they are making the people think its the democratic parties fault when in fact its the republicans who set it up. Unfortunately the people smart enough to know this are not the masses who where stupid enough to get the US into this mess in the first place.
While I think this will basically do exactly nothing to fix the economic problems we’re in currently – I will totally take money that is handed to me.
(And pay my taxes with it as well. That feels like an Alanis Morrisette song a lil bit.)
@Saboth: whale biologist!
people spent most of the money rather than salting it away in savings or using it to pay down credit card debt.
Yeah, but that was when the housing market wasn’t in a free fall. Do they really expect that no one will make mortgage payments with the money this time?
@weakdome: Mr. Burns– err, Bush’s plan is to eliminate the first taxation layer from your paycheck. So if your gross salary remains the same, less will be withheld, and more goes into your bank account.
That’s *if* your gross salary remains constant. Some employers may choose to reduce your gross by an equivalent post-tax amount. (And I *certainly* didn’t witness that first-hand during the last “rebate”, and I will testify so in court… >wink<)
This isn’t a refund. It’s a payday loan, with the interest deferred until a time when no one in the Bush administration is in a position to be held accountable.
@alexander: Living on 14 grand in LA must be a pretty sweet life.
@Falconfire:
And if it were democrats in office about to be replaced by Republicans they would say the exact same thing.
The lot of you are a bunch of whiny marketers who couldn’t properly run a dry cleaners, let a long a country.
*mumble* worthless party system. *grumble*
@brent_w: *let alone a country
@Rectilinear Propagation:
So they make mortgage payments. This will help keep people from losing their house, prevent the banks from having to post as much in losses, preventing the need for more layoffs.
This is better than a 150 billion dollar bailout of the banking industry.
Though I too am tired of ‘bandaid politics’. We need to get down to fixing things permanently.
Cut spending, lower taxes, and keep the money in our pockets in the first place.
And to everyone bitching that the money is going to China anyway, we only have ourselves as consumers to blame for that one. Tell me, all of you who brought up China…what kind of car do you drive? Oh, sending our money to Japan and Germany is fine, I guess.
Is this for sure, like WMDs in IRAQ?
@hwyengr: See, here is the thing. This tax place was in East Los Angeles. An area that is heavily heavily hispanic area. I don’t know the numbers, but’s the vast majority. I’m hispanic too by the way. You will find that there are plenty of hispanic families that will live off of $15,000 a year. How? Who knows. Mostly, it’s a bunch of them living together (I’m sure you’ve heard of that). So if you take 3 sisters living together in a 1 bedroom $900 apartment, each of them “earning” $15,000…then you have $45,000 all of a sudden. It works…it just does because I see it all the time.
@Murph1908: Murph–I have no problem with buying “American-assembled” either. Toyota, Nissan and Honda both have assembly plants that employ Americans. Sure, they use Chinese and Japanese-made parts, but they’re still employing Americans to put the beast together.
They best thing you can do, if you really want to help the economy, is to not shop at WalMart. Over 75% of their non-perishable goods are not American-made.
Invest it in an international fund and piss them off royally.
Elijah-M: Winner.
Oh, and how about that next Iraq War supplemental? You think we’re going to hear anything from the Dems on this one?
(No, me neither.)
@ Lincolnparadox: Walmart makes me sad, I can’t help but think of the chinese babies that are making whatever it is I am buying. Is Target any better? I get a better feeling shopping from them. It must be.
Lets put that money toward lowering the prices of our staples. The things we need and use everyday. That will in itself increase spending. We will have the feeling of intimacy before we get f*cked at least.
I, like anyone else though, vote for the “free” money in my pocket.
Beer and pizza, here I come.
@alexander: Yeah! I mean, its not huge corporations game the tax code to pay next to nothing while getting huge government handouts. No, only poor people do that so lets make them into the villains!
@PrairiePossum: Good, so most of your rebate will be staying in the US economy. Thanks for being a team player.
@lincolnparadox:
And some of those American-assembled cars are even designed and at least partly engineered in the US, too.
I agree, people are forgetting about the EIC (earned income credit)–those who make below 35k? and have kids (without kids it’s below 12K) get a huge tax credit–up to 2K regardless of what the pay in–so essentially, they pay no taxes and get a credit.
I actually would be pissed to hear that low income families would get this tax credit and the EIC credit. That would suck.
Otherwise, while I think we don’t have the money for this (I know my state is projecting a 14 billion dollar deficit) I would happy to get $800.
@BStu: I never said they were villains. I just stated what I saw. At the end of the day we can all do whatever we want and can get away with…
Most people will just overspend anyway and end up in debt more.” Hey I got a check for $800 now I can put a down payment on a new $45,000 TRUCK!!!” hahhahah. ME? I would pay down my student loans.
@BStu: You’re off point. The “rebate” being propopsed (like the one in 2001) is a rebate of income taxes (not property tax, social security tax, sales tax or the like). It is true that many low wage earners don’t pay federal income taxes (meaning they are refunded all of the money witheld from their paychecks, due to deductions, credits and/or thresholds). The problem in 2001 (as ad8bc noted) was that people with effective federal income tax rates of 0% did not get rebates and these people necessarily would be low wage earners.
I’m totally okay with this. My wife and I could really use the money.
btw: not everybody who filed their taxes last year, got the rebate. With my wife and my income together, totaled just under $60k. We never received the rebate. It must be limited to above or below a certain amount.
@ SADSAM
Kudos for giving that money away. We all need to do more of that.
@ RICKSHAWED
Not a gift a refund (if it works like last time)
What I want to know is if giving me back $600 helps the economy why not give me more, or tax me less.
1,6oo clams!!! Wow! Here, take my kid for your war! I’m going to Wal-Mart!
$800
Its a good thing,to be sure, but a lot of people need far more than $800 to get out of the red. I see a lot of credit card companies,Banks,and mortgage lenders getting paid.
Heck,lots of people will just end up sending the refund check straight to some bank or lender,and the economy still stagnates.Few retailers will see much of this refund money.
I didn’t make the cutoff. Why, oh why do I continue to pretend like I’m a poor person like I was in college?
Does that mean I should hold off filing my 2007 taxes until they figure out what they will do? What does this mean for people who are ready to file?
Won’t this just further devalue the dollar? I mean, giving away free dollars just seems to imply that dollars are worthless.
Heh. Not that I wouldn’t like an extra $1600 between my wife and me, I have no idea how this would get paid for. I also would use it to pay down debt, not to buy more stuff.
Excuse, I made a mistake. The maximum EIC is over $4000. So families of four who make under 35K will get a $4000 credit and they also want this $1600 credit? That doesn’t seem fair at all. A family of four who make 10K a year, would probably get close to the maximum 4K in EIC credit anyway.
The low income already have a better credit system. This credit should be solely for those who paid into the credit in the first place.
@Serolf Divad: Do you mean prostitutes and cocaine or the band from Minneapolis? Both are solid choices, just asking.
@gacracker: I agree. With our salaries combined, we’ll be over the cap. I think they should raise the income cap for couples.
Why do us single people always get shafted when it comes to taxes. Of course the married people each get 1600 and I only get 800. And god forbid if they have a kid. They usually get back more in taxes than they paid.
W000t! Just in time for the new NVIDIA 9000 series graphics cards!
The “Democrat” Party could become the dominant party in the United States if they ran on a platform of no new taxes + no deficit spending. Leave the tax-rate as-is and cut spending in non-essential areas.
Essential areas != “the arts” no matter what argument comes up, that money could be better spent implementing something that actually benefits the poor rather than people with nothing better to do.
Finding a Democrat that wants to cut spending at all is impossible so it will never happen. Finding a Republican that wants to cut spending at all is nearly as impossible.
If all these programs were at a state level, people would be able to vote their direct representatives out of office if the money wasn’t being spent properly.
As-is, unless you are from California – what can you do about Nancy Pelosi’s spending priorities vs. your pocketbook?
@ripple: I believe that is $1600 per couple, or $800 per person, so the same amount per person. They just state it that way since couples file jointly. Doesn’t mean that the 2 people would get $3200 total, just $1600 total back on the tax return.
@Shannara: What rebate last year? I though the last was in 2001.
By definition, isn’t rebate supposed to mean you are getting money back that you already paid? If so, a “tax rebate” should not have anything to do with your *future* taxes.
@ripple: Uh, do the math:
1 person (filing single) = $800
1 person + 1 person (filing married) = $1600
Someone suggested this, and I wouldn’t like, but I can see the govt. issuing refunds in the form of gift cards or certificates–that would be the best way to ensure people spend the money.
If I got this money, it would to into my emergency fund.
@Luftvier:
It’s your tax money being returned to you. Socialism is all about higher taxes and increased goverment services…bigger government if you will. Better to tax less in the first place.
@ad8bc: but that juicy, slowly stewed pork, in vinegar, mustard, apple, molasses, chile and tomato…and it’s basically free, because the people who pay most of it don’t elect you! How can you turn it down?
@fizzyg: you don’t feel like it works, because it doesn’t work for you. I don’t mean it works for me, either, but that it works for people who make money from you spending, and represent large pockets of our economy.
Pissing away money during a recession. Wonderful. Hasn’t he unsuccessfully tried this before?
“There’s an old saying in Tennessee-I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee-that says, fool me once, shame on…shame on you? Fool me-you can’t get fooled again.”
-GWB
@ClayS: Sadly there is no party that is willing to spend less. It’s either bigger defense, or bigger social services. Pick your poison. As you’ll recall, the last time Bush “gave money” to the American people he later took it back. According to him it was just a loan.
@gingerCE: That’s actually something that might work. Which means the government would never think of it.