$800-$1600 Rebates Expected In Bush Stimulus Plan

It looks like Bush’s economic stimulus package is going to take the form of instant cash bonuses: $800 for individuals and $1600 for married couples. That’s dumb, everyone should get Costco coupons! All kidding aside, the NYT says the ~$500 rebates granted after the 2001 recessions proved “surprisingly effective…people spent most of the money rather than salting it away in savings or using it to pay down credit card debt. A 2004 study by economists at the Department of Labor, Princeton University, and the University of Pennsylvania found that households spent between 20 and 40 percent of the rebate within three months and another third in the following three months.” Will this “wealth surge” be just what the countries needs to beat back the forces of recession holed up in our economy, terrorizing our financial well-being? Bring on Operation Cash Dump.

[AP]
(Photo: Getty)

Comments

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  1. $800 for individuals and $1600 for individuals

  2. Rusted says:

    It’s not gonna work for long. Gummint gonna hafe to take money out of the economy by borrowing it to pay for that.

  3. sleze69 says:

    I’ll choose the $1600 as an individual

  4. weazel says:

    Ironically, I will be using the money to pay taxes.

  5. B says:

    What about those of us who aren’t individuals?

  6. lincolnparadox says:

    Yay! Free money.

    I will be one of the people using it to pay off debt/put into savings.

  7. rickshawed says:

    Is this a true “gift” or is this simply an advance on your upcoming tax returns?

  8. edwu says:

    @weazel: me, too

  9. AD8BC says:

    @rickshawed: I don’t think it is an advance, considering it will be sent to those who tend to owe taxes each year.

    This would truly work if the government stopped spending money on pork to give the money back.

  10. youbastid says:

    Yay! $800 for everyone to spend on crap that will end up being funneled to China!

  11. Shucks, I didn’t get a rebate last time. Why would I expect to get one this time?

    If, on the off chance, I do get a rebate, I’ll be one of those poor devils who stores it away for a rainy day. I do plenty for the economy, but I don’t need $800 worth of more junk.

  12. fizzyg says:

    I never feel like stuff like this works (and I could be totally wrong) but today I still want the money.

    Mmmm money.

  13. rbb says:

    All kidding aside about the Costco coupons, a smart merchant will offer x% off your purchase or some freebies if you cash your check there…

  14. James D says:

    Wait if I use my tax refund to go on a trip to Hong Kong am I being unpatriotic or am I helping to balance the trade deficit?

  15. AD8BC says:

    @davelawrence8: Not everybody got rebates last time. Only people who actually pay income taxes did (that may or may not be why you didn’t and it’s none of my business anyway).

    But that sure pi$$ed the liberal democrats off last time because the poor people weren’t getting rebates because they don’t actually pay taxes to begin with.

  16. AD8BC says:

    @James D: Just use an American airline to fly to Hong Kong. You can still be patriotic!

  17. Mary says:

    Does anybody know what the cutoff is going to be for who gets this money (if/when it happens)? On the news they said people who make too much won’t be eligible.

    And sadly, on paper we make a lot of money. In reality, this would be the biggest help I can imagine right now.

  18. Tommmcatt says:

    Thank goodness this is an honest attempt to spur the economy and not a sleazy way of buying goodwill for Republicans for the upcoming election year! We can fill the hole it leaves in funding with money borrowed from our kids, right? Just like usual?

  19. BStu says:

    Well, since the idea is to put money into the hands of the people who’ll spend it, I’m sure the Bush Administration would agree to exempt the wealthy from this rebate as they already save at a higher rate. I mean, if that’s the idea.

    Truth be told, if I was given $800 today, I WOULD spend it. I’m already saving and running no credit card debt. Only debt is in student loans, which have a pretty good rate. XBox 360 and Rock Band here I come!

    Oh, right, this is just a proposal and there is still that business of a Congress who might not be keen on Bush buying people’s love yet again.

  20. Freedomboy says:

    Let’s just bury that lie that poor folks don’t pay taxes. Get a clue folks!

  21. RandoX says:

    When would this proposed rebate actually be dispursed?

  22. BStu says:

    @ad8bc: Well, I believe those liberal Democrats weren’t happy because those poor people who “don’t pay taxes” actually DO pay taxes even if they don’t pay income taxes.

    If they get some work, they have payroll taxes. Oh, and sales taxes that disproportionately impact the poor. Not to mention local income and property taxes. (even renters pay property taxes; they just pay them to their landlord who pays them to the city/state) Very few people in this country actually pay NO money on taxes.

  23. youbastid says:

    @ad8bc: It pi$$ed the liberal democrat$ off because Bush e$$entially bribed the country by telling them if he wa$ elected, everyone get$ 300 buck$! And he $till lo$t the popular vote.

    “Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke entered the stimulus debate Thursday, endorsing the idea of putting money into the hands of those who would spend it quickly and boost the flagging economy.”

    That’s exactly what we need, because idiots with their homes in foreclosure buying new LCD’s will stimulate the economy!

  24. Saboth says:

    I don’t know if I should spend this on 800 $1 hookerbots or 1 $800 hookerbot.

  25. Saboth says:

    @Freedomboy:

    I know a lady where I work…she makes about $10 an hour. Each year, her tax refund is in the range of $5k, due to the fact she has kids. I make almost double that, and if I am lucky, I get 1/10 of what she gets back. Not sure, but I think instead of paying taxes, she is actually getting my taxes forwarded to her.

  26. GaCracker says:

    WOO HOOOOOO!!11!!!

    I’m going to Amsterdam for some weed.

    Thanks W!!11!!1!!

    PS you still suck.

  27. Dibbler says:

    I’m going to buy a bunch of stuff from China…that’ll help our consumer based economy.

  28. Serolf Divad says:

    Whooo hooo! Bring on the hookers ‘n blow!!!

  29. weakdome says:

    What am I missing from this article? Are these “random” bonuses, or do we have to apply for them somewhere?

  30. remusrm says:

    I need a new iphone, since my old one is so old, and some dubs sound good about right now… oh hell, and some prime rib cause u never know when u gonna die…

    hooray!… I got married and will use the money to pay some debt and then fix my damn ford… POS

  31. Shadowman615 says:

    Once I met a woman in a bar who asked if I had a bush stimulus plan for her…

  32. complexicated says:

    @Saboth: Thats because she is not claiming enough on there taxes and using the government as a 0 interest savings account. She prob. doesnt relize it, but she is giving the government a free loan.

  33. missjulied says:

    @MEIRAN:
    “The rebates would likely be limited to individuals with incomes of $85,000 or less and couples with incomes of $110,000 or less, the aides said, speaking on condition of anonymity because no final decisions had been made.”

  34. ClayS says:

    @Saboth:

    This woman needs to file a new W-4 with her employer so they don’t withold so much tax. Unless she likes getting a big tax refund while loaning money to the government interest-free.

  35. holocron says:

    This is just a feel good measure. How about offering a tax credit for payments on student loans. That would help a whole lot more, IMO.

  36. shadow735 says:

    I would be using it to get more equipment for my business.

  37. Seanibus says:

    I would prefer that the government give me a case of beer and a blowjob. I don’t know what it would do for the economy, but it sure as hell would boost my confidence as a consumer.

  38. teapartys_over says:

    Oh Goody! Will we get candy and a horse too?

  39. tk427 says:

    @weakdome:

    The last time they did this the checks just showed up at the address the IRS had on file.

  40. SadSam says:

    @ad8bc:

    How much
    Right now, President Bush is said to want an income tax rebate that would be generated by eliminating the 10 percent tax bracket, which applies to roughly the first $8,000 of income for single filers and the first $16,000 of income for married couples filing jointly.

    That would mean taxpayers could get rebates of up to $800 if single, or $1,600 if married.

    But neither President Bush in his statement nor Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson in a briefing afterwards would confirm that amount. “I don’t want to play bigger than a bread box,” Paulson told reporters. “The president is focused on broad-baseed tax relief for those paying taxes.”

    Who would get it
    Democrats could get on board with an income tax rebate if it’s fully refundable, meaning that everyone with earned income would get the full rebate, even if they didn’t make enough money to owe income tax, said Furman.

    Otherwise, roughly 40 percent of tax filers (which is more than 50 million households) would get only a partial rebate or no rebate at all, according to the liberal Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

    A significant portion of that 40 percent would be families of four making between $25,000 and $40,000, the CBPP said.

    There are a few ways that could be prevented, Furman said.

    One way is to offer tax credits, a dollar-for-dollar reduction of your tax bill. If it’s refundable, it means you get the credit even if your tax bill is $0 or something less than the full credit.

    Another way is to have the rebate be a payroll tax rebate. The payroll tax – 6.2 percent of your wages – is what’s taken out of everyone’s paycheck to fund Social Security, no matter how low your annual income.

    A payroll tax rebate would not affect your Social Security benefits or the long-term solvency of the entitlement program, Furman said, because it would really serve as a tax credit. In other words, money from your paycheck would still be taken out and put towards Social Security, but the federal government would send you a check that would serve as an advance on a refundable tax credit on your tax return.

  41. winstonthorne says:

    @Shadowman615: Congrats on being the first one to comment on that unfortunate term. I’m glad I’m not the only one with a sufficiently filthy mind to see that :)

  42. Daniel-Bham says:

    Step 1: Print more money
    Step 2: Price of consumer goods rises through inflation
    Step 3: After spending through their ‘gift’ people realize they are paying an extra $1 per gallon of milk from that point on, and an extra 50 cent per gallon of gas.
    Step 4: Profit?

    When will the government realize that they need to cut spending by the amount they cut taxes in order to have a desired effect?

    (Ron Paul 2008)

  43. Starfury says:

    If my wife and I get a $1600 check from the govt it’ll go in the bank. We’ve taken a look at the amount of ‘stuff’ we buy/have and decided we don’t need as much.

    Or I’ll drop the whole thing on a new TV….

  44. youbastid says:

    @Daniel-Bham: Step 1: True
    Step 2: True
    Step 3: True
    Step 4: True?

    Good question.

    (Wrong Answer 2008)

  45. SadSam says:

    I gave my 2001-2002 tax rebate to my local feed the poor charity (they had lost one of their federal grants post).

    One wonders where the Feds take from in order to give out these rebates. Do they take from the defense budget or do they take from head start or feed the poor projects?

  46. PrairiePossum says:

    REBATE MONEY SHOPPING LIST

    porn
    cheeseburgers and fries
    beer
    more porn
    hdtv to watch porn
    viagra
    pizza
    more beer
    antacids

    Yup, this will be the best $800 bucks GWB ever spent.

  47. PracticalMagic says:

    When does the payout happen? What time of year?

  48. GaCracker says:

    @missjulied: That sucks. Not bragging mind you but I want some free cash just like the rest of you fuckers.

  49. weakdome says:

    Still not following. Does this rebate apply to only those people who would end up having to OWE tax? I purposefully withold extra (yes, giving the gov’t a loan, I don’t care.) so that I get a big fat post-Xmas refund check. I’m assuming they aren’t going to reward me with an extra $800 on top of that just for being super nice to them?

  50. Uh oh... Cleveland says:

    Let’s see…

    1. Bush wants to give us all a tax rebate, driving the country further into deficit.

    2. Deficits are paid for by the government lending money, like the US T-Bonds sold to China.

    3. Taxpayers take the money and spend it. Most likely on goods made in China.

    So China is lending us the money to buy goods made in China. And they’re getting interest on the bonds. Gee, isn’t this how Avon works?

  51. forever_knight says:

    this was dumb the first time we did it, and it is even dumber this time.

    when can we be smrt? i mean, smart?

  52. bentcorner says:

    @youbastid: Are Mac mini’s made in China?

  53. EternalVigilance says:

    @Shadowman615: From what I see these days, even *that* kind of bush is pretty unpopular.

    Big surge in support for Pierce, though.

  54. Alexander says:

    @Saboth: Earned Income Credit. I worked in a hole-in-the wall tax place here in Los Angeles for few months doing some clerical stuff. I saw people come in with w2 showing wages of $8000 and get a big fat check for $6,000 refund. Here is the deal, most of these people were so aware of this credit, they have also become adept at gaming it. I forgot what the income limit is, but they knew that all they had to do was earned such and such and they’d probably get such and such big refund. Think about that, they were totally aware that they ONLY had to work up to a certain amount to maximize their “free money”. Talk about encouragement….

  55. Luftvier says:

    The republican party is unbelievable. This is OUR money being redistributed by the government. I call that socialism.

    I have a better idea – instead of spending all the money to find out who deserves the checks, paying people to do the work required, the paper the checks will be printed on, the postage, etc…. – JUST DON’T TAX US AS MUCH.

  56. Falconfire says:

    Yep nothing like getting a huge tax break to cause the country to go further into debt and thus further into recession… AHHH but wait, because its pretty much a sure win for the Dems to get into office this year, so BASICALLY what this is setting things up to be is

    1) The Dems have to raise taxes because we have a huge deficit making them look “evil” in the eyes of people

    2) The economy crashes down thanks to how the republicans left it

    All anyone has to do is look at NJ’s economy and look at how the Republicans left it, and what the Democrats are having to do to fix it to see what Bush and company are setting the US up for. Its a scam, they are making the people think its the democratic parties fault when in fact its the republicans who set it up. Unfortunately the people smart enough to know this are not the masses who where stupid enough to get the US into this mess in the first place.

  57. girlfromsouth says:

    While I think this will basically do exactly nothing to fix the economic problems we’re in currently – I will totally take money that is handed to me.

    (And pay my taxes with it as well. That feels like an Alanis Morrisette song a lil bit.)

  58. filmsnack says:

    @Saboth: whale biologist!

  59. Rectilinear Propagation says:

    people spent most of the money rather than salting it away in savings or using it to pay down credit card debt.

    Yeah, but that was when the housing market wasn’t in a free fall. Do they really expect that no one will make mortgage payments with the money this time?

  60. drrictus says:

    @weakdome: Mr. Burns– err, Bush’s plan is to eliminate the first taxation layer from your paycheck. So if your gross salary remains the same, less will be withheld, and more goes into your bank account.

    That’s *if* your gross salary remains constant. Some employers may choose to reduce your gross by an equivalent post-tax amount. (And I *certainly* didn’t witness that first-hand during the last “rebate”, and I will testify so in court… >wink<)

  61. Elijah-M says:

    This isn’t a refund. It’s a payday loan, with the interest deferred until a time when no one in the Bush administration is in a position to be held accountable.

  62. hwyengr says:

    @alexander: Living on 14 grand in LA must be a pretty sweet life.

  63. brent_w says:

    @Falconfire:

    And if it were democrats in office about to be replaced by Republicans they would say the exact same thing.

    The lot of you are a bunch of whiny marketers who couldn’t properly run a dry cleaners, let a long a country.

    *mumble* worthless party system. *grumble*

  64. brent_w says:

    @brent_w: *let alone a country

  65. Murph1908 says:

    @Rectilinear Propagation:
    So they make mortgage payments. This will help keep people from losing their house, prevent the banks from having to post as much in losses, preventing the need for more layoffs.

    This is better than a 150 billion dollar bailout of the banking industry.

    Though I too am tired of ‘bandaid politics’. We need to get down to fixing things permanently.

    Cut spending, lower taxes, and keep the money in our pockets in the first place.

    And to everyone bitching that the money is going to China anyway, we only have ourselves as consumers to blame for that one. Tell me, all of you who brought up China…what kind of car do you drive? Oh, sending our money to Japan and Germany is fine, I guess.

  66. TCameron says:

    Is this for sure, like WMDs in IRAQ?

  67. Alexander says:

    @hwyengr: See, here is the thing. This tax place was in East Los Angeles. An area that is heavily heavily hispanic area. I don’t know the numbers, but’s the vast majority. I’m hispanic too by the way. You will find that there are plenty of hispanic families that will live off of $15,000 a year. How? Who knows. Mostly, it’s a bunch of them living together (I’m sure you’ve heard of that). So if you take 3 sisters living together in a 1 bedroom $900 apartment, each of them “earning” $15,000…then you have $45,000 all of a sudden. It works…it just does because I see it all the time.

  68. lincolnparadox says:

    @Murph1908: Murph–I have no problem with buying “American-assembled” either. Toyota, Nissan and Honda both have assembly plants that employ Americans. Sure, they use Chinese and Japanese-made parts, but they’re still employing Americans to put the beast together.

    They best thing you can do, if you really want to help the economy, is to not shop at WalMart. Over 75% of their non-perishable goods are not American-made.

  69. DickCheneysBlackSister says:

    Invest it in an international fund and piss them off royally.

  70. Chicago Bureau says:

    Elijah-M: Winner.

    Oh, and how about that next Iraq War supplemental? You think we’re going to hear anything from the Dems on this one?

    (No, me neither.)

  71. soilearntfromyou says:

    @ Lincolnparadox: Walmart makes me sad, I can’t help but think of the chinese babies that are making whatever it is I am buying. Is Target any better? I get a better feeling shopping from them. It must be.

    Lets put that money toward lowering the prices of our staples. The things we need and use everyday. That will in itself increase spending. We will have the feeling of intimacy before we get f*cked at least.

    I, like anyone else though, vote for the “free” money in my pocket.
    Beer and pizza, here I come.

  72. BStu says:

    @alexander: Yeah! I mean, its not huge corporations game the tax code to pay next to nothing while getting huge government handouts. No, only poor people do that so lets make them into the villains!

  73. TechnoDestructo says:

    @PrairiePossum: Good, so most of your rebate will be staying in the US economy. Thanks for being a team player.

    @lincolnparadox:
    And some of those American-assembled cars are even designed and at least partly engineered in the US, too.

  74. gingerCE says:

    I agree, people are forgetting about the EIC (earned income credit)–those who make below 35k? and have kids (without kids it’s below 12K) get a huge tax credit–up to 2K regardless of what the pay in–so essentially, they pay no taxes and get a credit.

    I actually would be pissed to hear that low income families would get this tax credit and the EIC credit. That would suck.

    Otherwise, while I think we don’t have the money for this (I know my state is projecting a 14 billion dollar deficit) I would happy to get $800.

  75. Alexander says:

    @BStu: I never said they were villains. I just stated what I saw. At the end of the day we can all do whatever we want and can get away with…

  76. CuriousO says:

    Most people will just overspend anyway and end up in debt more.” Hey I got a check for $800 now I can put a down payment on a new $45,000 TRUCK!!!” hahhahah. ME? I would pay down my student loans.

  77. nequam says:

    @BStu: You’re off point. The “rebate” being propopsed (like the one in 2001) is a rebate of income taxes (not property tax, social security tax, sales tax or the like). It is true that many low wage earners don’t pay federal income taxes (meaning they are refunded all of the money witheld from their paychecks, due to deductions, credits and/or thresholds). The problem in 2001 (as ad8bc noted) was that people with effective federal income tax rates of 0% did not get rebates and these people necessarily would be low wage earners.

  78. theutopian says:

    I’m totally okay with this. My wife and I could really use the money. :)

  79. Osi says:

    btw: not everybody who filed their taxes last year, got the rebate. With my wife and my income together, totaled just under $60k. We never received the rebate. It must be limited to above or below a certain amount.

  80. arcticJKL says:

    @ SADSAM
    Kudos for giving that money away. We all need to do more of that.

    @ RICKSHAWED
    Not a gift a refund (if it works like last time)

    What I want to know is if giving me back $600 helps the economy why not give me more, or tax me less.

  81. Last-Throes says:

    1,6oo clams!!! Wow! Here, take my kid for your war! I’m going to Wal-Mart!

  82. Silversmok3 says:

    $800

    Its a good thing,to be sure, but a lot of people need far more than $800 to get out of the red. I see a lot of credit card companies,Banks,and mortgage lenders getting paid.

    Heck,lots of people will just end up sending the refund check straight to some bank or lender,and the economy still stagnates.Few retailers will see much of this refund money.

  83. mantari says:

    I didn’t make the cutoff. Why, oh why do I continue to pretend like I’m a poor person like I was in college?

  84. rimclean says:

    Does that mean I should hold off filing my 2007 taxes until they figure out what they will do? What does this mean for people who are ready to file?

  85. PaulMorel says:

    Won’t this just further devalue the dollar? I mean, giving away free dollars just seems to imply that dollars are worthless.

  86. dwarf74 says:

    Heh. Not that I wouldn’t like an extra $1600 between my wife and me, I have no idea how this would get paid for. I also would use it to pay down debt, not to buy more stuff.

  87. gingerCE says:

    Excuse, I made a mistake. The maximum EIC is over $4000. So families of four who make under 35K will get a $4000 credit and they also want this $1600 credit? That doesn’t seem fair at all. A family of four who make 10K a year, would probably get close to the maximum 4K in EIC credit anyway.

    The low income already have a better credit system. This credit should be solely for those who paid into the credit in the first place.

  88. HootieMac says:

    @Serolf Divad: Do you mean prostitutes and cocaine or the band from Minneapolis? Both are solid choices, just asking.

  89. biblio26 says:

    @gacracker: I agree. With our salaries combined, we’ll be over the cap. I think they should raise the income cap for couples.

  90. ripple says:

    Why do us single people always get shafted when it comes to taxes. Of course the married people each get 1600 and I only get 800. And god forbid if they have a kid. They usually get back more in taxes than they paid.

  91. Benstein says:

    W000t! Just in time for the new NVIDIA 9000 series graphics cards!

  92. Daniel-Bham says:

    The “Democrat” Party could become the dominant party in the United States if they ran on a platform of no new taxes + no deficit spending. Leave the tax-rate as-is and cut spending in non-essential areas.

    Essential areas != “the arts” no matter what argument comes up, that money could be better spent implementing something that actually benefits the poor rather than people with nothing better to do.

    Finding a Democrat that wants to cut spending at all is impossible so it will never happen. Finding a Republican that wants to cut spending at all is nearly as impossible.

    If all these programs were at a state level, people would be able to vote their direct representatives out of office if the money wasn’t being spent properly.

    As-is, unless you are from California – what can you do about Nancy Pelosi’s spending priorities vs. your pocketbook?

  93. K-Bo says:

    @ripple: I believe that is $1600 per couple, or $800 per person, so the same amount per person. They just state it that way since couples file jointly. Doesn’t mean that the 2 people would get $3200 total, just $1600 total back on the tax return.

  94. K-Bo says:

    @Shannara: What rebate last year? I though the last was in 2001.

  95. Sherryness says:

    By definition, isn’t rebate supposed to mean you are getting money back that you already paid? If so, a “tax rebate” should not have anything to do with your *future* taxes.

  96. ancientsociety says:

    @ripple: Uh, do the math:

    1 person (filing single) = $800

    1 person + 1 person (filing married) = $1600

  97. gingerCE says:

    Someone suggested this, and I wouldn’t like, but I can see the govt. issuing refunds in the form of gift cards or certificates–that would be the best way to ensure people spend the money.

    If I got this money, it would to into my emergency fund.

  98. ClayS says:

    @Luftvier:

    It’s your tax money being returned to you. Socialism is all about higher taxes and increased goverment services…bigger government if you will. Better to tax less in the first place.

  99. cerbie says:

    @ad8bc: but that juicy, slowly stewed pork, in vinegar, mustard, apple, molasses, chile and tomato…and it’s basically free, because the people who pay most of it don’t elect you! How can you turn it down?

    @fizzyg: you don’t feel like it works, because it doesn’t work for you. I don’t mean it works for me, either, but that it works for people who make money from you spending, and represent large pockets of our economy.

  100. EtherealStrife says:

    Pissing away money during a recession. Wonderful. Hasn’t he unsuccessfully tried this before?

    “There’s an old saying in Tennessee-I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee-that says, fool me once, shame on…shame on you? Fool me-you can’t get fooled again.”
    -GWB

    @ClayS: Sadly there is no party that is willing to spend less. It’s either bigger defense, or bigger social services. Pick your poison. As you’ll recall, the last time Bush “gave money” to the American people he later took it back. According to him it was just a loan.

    @gingerCE: That’s actually something that might work. Which means the government would never think of it.

  101. djxspike says:

    …yeah I’m totally going to use it to pay down debt. But truthfully. I’ll probably get an iPod and use the rest (plus my regular tax return) to pay down credit card debt.

  102. anns says:

    @ClayS: Wrong – this rebate would go to lower/mid-income Americans, the ones who pay LESS in taxes — so it’s your tax money being returned to someone else, or someone else’s money returned to you, depending on whether you managed a hedge funds or flipped burgers. That’s redistribution of income.

  103. cef21 says:

    @lincolnparadox: Not shop at walmart? Only if you don’t care about the most local economy of all–the one residing in your back pocket.

    Buying stuff at Walmart makes me richer because my dollar goes farther.

  104. ideagirl says:

    I suspect this is an advance, NOT refund, just like the last one was…

  105. Nemesis_Enforcer says:

    @alexander: Simple really, my next door neighbors have 4 yes 4 families living in thier home. Total of 18 people living in a 3 bedroom house. The garage is also converted into a bedroom. I belive the last time I talked to them there were 7 adults and 11 kids. Of the 7 adults 2 were legal(they owned the house) the other 5 worked under the table so no taxes.

  106. youbastid says:

    @cef21: That’s a pretty shortsighted view. Continuously shopping there only contributes to the dollar’s plummeting value. If all our money keeps getting funneled to China through Walmart, they’ll still have the cheapest prices, but it will be the only place to get a bottle of coke for under $47.

    Course, there are other major industries/corporations that are funneling our money to other countries, but Walmart may be the most brazen company doing it under the guise of saving Americans money.

  107. Osi says:

    K-BO

    My apologies: I wasnt thinking straight .. Was thinking of something else :D

    My wife and I did get the 2001 rebate of a whole $300 between the two of us. That was $150 per person. We made roughly 15k that year.

    If this “rebate” is anything like the one in 2001, then it means we file our taxes as normal (ASAP!), and we get the rebate later in the year in the mail (After we get the tax refund).

    At least, that’s what happened to us for the 2001 tax return.

  108. deadlizard says:

    Does “Individuals” include people who make under $250,000 a year?

  109. krom says:

    Hah. Most people will put it into savings. It worked in 2001 because people weren’t worried we were going into the shitter. Now, not so much.

  110. TechnoDestructo says:

    Take your refund check, buy canned food and ammunition.

  111. Alexander says:

    @Nemesis_Enforcer: Exactly. People will survive anyway they can.

  112. barty says:

    @complexicated: You’re probably 100% on the nose about that lady. I’m trying to talk my wife into revamping her withholding for the exact same reason.

    @EtherealStrife: I’m afraid your right about spending. Of course now both parties have turned to the big social services camp, which taken as a whole, have been the biggest expense on the federal budget for years.

    I don’t know why Bush didn’t impress upon the Republican congress to make the tax cuts permanent. Want to REALLY stimulate the economy? Let those who make the money keep more of it instead of draining it off in taxes. Also, to those of you who keep repeating this mantra of raising taxes on the rich, when is the last time you’ve seen a poor person give someone a job? Most of the top 1 or 5 percent of income earners are owners of their own companies (approx 80% of all jobs in the US are in companies with less than 100 people). When you raise taxes on that crowd, it increases their cost of doing business…which means they can’t hire as many people or start looking for ways of off shoring their labor because of our burdensome tax code.

  113. youbastid says:

    @TechnoDestructo: I was thinking an e-bike, gun, and a safe deposit box filled with bottled water and emergency rations.

  114. shanaynay says:

    @EtherealStrife: bigger defense or bigger social services? How is that even a choice? Either we provide services for our citizens, or we go tear other countries up in the name of forced “enlightenment?”

    Bush is horse’s ass, and I want to know who of y’all voted for him. Nobody will ever ADMIT to it, but somebody did it, and I have a fresh can of whoopass here. Say what you want, but he’s done an awful lot to run this country straight into the ground.

  115. Mojosan says:

    >>>>>>>>
    Democrats could get on board with an income tax rebate if it’s fully refundable, meaning that everyone with earned income would get the full rebate, even if they didn’t make enough money to owe income tax, said Furman.
    >>>>>>>>

    Oh good. Income tax rebates for the freeloaders who don’t actually pay income taxes.

    Or, as they are more commonly known, the core Democrat voting base.

  116. shanaynay says:

    @Mojosan: they’re not freeloaders, they’re brokeasses with kids.

  117. stinerman says:

    @Mojosan:
    Yeah, we’re freeloaders — the unemployed, the students, the elderly. We’re just loving the lifestyle that comes from making around $8,000/yr. Come join us sometime.

    We pay a shit ton of our income in sales taxes, gas taxes, and state and local income taxes. I don’t, but poor people pay the majority of sin taxes (alcohol and tobacco) as well.

    Not everyone who doesn’t pay (or pays very little) federal income tax is a crack-smoking baby factory that does nothing but collect a monthly check. In fact, those days are over after Clinton signed welfare reform. The average person at the bottom end of the income spectrum is someone who wants to work hard to improve themselves but is having a rotten go.

  118. Pinget says:

    Weazel – that’s the amount we owe the Feds on taxes this year too. What are they smoking?

  119. BStu says:

    @nequam: That is the point, though. Its not like this stimulus package HAS to be a federal income tax rebate. It could just as easily been structured differently to be inclusive of lower-income families and individuals. It wasn’t, and the silly “the poor don’t pay taxes” excuse was used as a justification. The excuse only works if this is the only way to provide economic stimulus or tax relief. Its not.

    @Daniel-Bham: Okay, three things. 1, its called the “Democratic Party” not the “Democrat” Party. But you probably knew you were using a right-wing insult, didn’t you. Because, 2, Democrats have been the party of fiscal responsibility for some time, now. I think you’ll find that the President who didn’t deficient spend was a Democrat and not a Republican. It was done not through slash and burn spending cuts, but spending money efficiently and wisely. Oh, and 3, the arts are darn well important. Forgetting the important role government has long played as a patron of culture. Forgetting the reality that overwhelmingly the arts are already funded privately and the government’s role is filling in the gaps and encouraging upstart cultural organizations. Arts has an enormous impact on our economy. I know in my part of the country, arts brings more money to the economy than our numerous major sports teams, with far less governmental support than those sports teams get. So, good for our culture and good for our economy and we don’t even spend much on it to begin with. Killing arts funding is ironically just political theatre. Its saves little while dealing major harm to an important segment of our economy. Arts spending is a very good investment.

  120. poorwhitetrash says:

    In reflecting on the comments about the poor in relation to the EIC and how they are freeloaders, I must ask a few questions. When your fat ass is standing in line at the grocery, who is ringing up your sale for you? When you put your fricking trash in the dumpster, who is the guy who collects it? Do you want these shitty jobs? I would suspect not, but these jobs along with countless others will qualify you to receive the EIC, because you will be making peanuts. All of this shit you have written about poor people sickens me. Have you ever been poor or had a hard time feeding your kids even though you work sixty hours a week? I hope one day you get a chance to feel it, and I think GDUBBYA is sending you in the right direction for that! *sticks up middle finger, pulls down pants and moons you*

  121. poorwhitetrash says:

    @BStu: Bravo, well said! When will these fat rich cows quit dogging the poor. When will they stop thinking they can throw us their scraps? The working poor are the backbone of this country and any logical person knows that the services provided by the poor will never be done by the rich. They can’t mess up their manicures, oh and the manicurist probably qualifies for EIC! Oh, meeegosh!

  122. ferris209 says:

    Screw the $1600 I could get, Bush needs to give us a $2 off per gallon of gas.

  123. cef21 says:

    @youbastid: I happen to have an enormous trade deficit with Kroger (when I’m not buying groceries at Walmart). Just like China, they keep taking my money and giving me stuff in return. But, Kroger never wants to buy anything from me — they never hire me to do anything. Maybe I should stop buying from Kroger until they agree that for every dollar I spend at their store, they will spend a dollar buying stuff from me.

    In fact, my personal trade deficit with the rest of the world is huge. Maybe I should stop buying stuff from everybody else and grow my own food, make my own clothes, generate my own electricity and build my own house out of my own trees. However, if I did that, I would end up very poor. I’d probably starve to death.

    I know it sounds absurd, but that’s effectively what protectionism promotes — it says “we have to do everything ourselves and keep all of our own money.” But, this ignores that wealth isn’t about green pieces of paper — it’s about turning labor into stuff. And, if I have to pay high prices because I’m unwilling to go to the people who can do things less expensively, I have less buying power and am thus poorer.

  124. stinerman says:

    @cef21:
    Kroger *does* buy stuff from *you*.

    You did a very sly thing there. You took something about macroeconomics and made a microeconomic comparison. That’s a no-no if your goal is to foster rational, good-faith debate.

    China doesn’t buy anything off of us because we make nothing China wants. Kroger does buy stuff off of us. They buy the labor of many American workers, and the products of American businesses.

    No one really wants to buy much off of us, which is why our currency isn’t worth shit. Dollars are useless if you don’t want American goods and services. Comparatively, we’re seeing a growth in exports due to our horrid currency, which is the silver lining.

    The proper comparison to make is as if China and America are two people. They keep selling us stuff, but we can’t sell our stuff to any of the other people (countries). If you were in business and you kept buying but had very few customers, you’d be out of business rather soon.

  125. gingerCE says:

    @poorwhitetrash: I have no problem with those receiving the EIC from getting the EIC. I know college students who receive the EIC because they work part time–so they end up paying no income taxes and receive a nice refund.

    The problem I have is the posting that Dems want to give those who already qualify for the EIC (max amount over $4000) this max. $1600 rebate. That doesn’t seem fair at all as the money for this rebate is supposedly coming from those who pay in over a certain amount. Lower income families/folks already have a much better credit system.

  126. cef21 says:

    @stinerman: So, let me get this straight: we keep giving China green pieces of paper and they give us stuff in return. Those green pieces of paper are really only good for one thing–you can take them to an American who will give you something in return. But, you’re telling me that China doesn’t want anything in return — they just like the green pieces of paper. Maybe they’re sewing it into underwear?

    If they really don’t want anything in return, then China, collectively, is really stupid. In reality, though, those dollars we send to China will, eventually, be used to buy American products.

    All sides benefit from trade. Sure, there are losers in each country (e.g., US textile workers who were no longer competitive) But, on the whole, each side is made better off from the exchange. It’s called Comparative Advantage.

  127. Mr. Gunn says:

    Daniel-Bham: Yeah, we should totally just quit all federal funding for art-related stuff. It’s not essential. Give that money back to people because they’ll totally spend it on community improvement and supporting the arts in their community. Like for real. Why would any government want to subsidize anything? People will use their money to benefit their community without some government having to make them do it, right? The community would be better off if we didn’t have homeless shelters and welfare, too, because all those people would totally find jobs if they had to.

    Ron Paul FTW!!

  128. youbastid says:

    @cef21: Um, no…They take those “green pieces of paper,” turn them in to Chinese currency, then use it to buy shit that doesn’t come from America. Somehow you’re under the belief that the money we give them can only be used to buy from America?

  129. LionelEHutz says:

    Great, just more election year bullshit that isn’t going to fix anything longterm. Sure I’ll take the money, but it sure as heck ain’t going into buying crap that I don’t need. What might help a bit more is to stop pissing money away in the middle-east and spend some of those billions here instead.

  130. trollkiller says:

    @gingerCE: Excuse, I made a mistake. The maximum EIC is over $4000. So families of four who make under 35K will get a $4000 credit and they also want this $1600 credit? That doesn’t seem fair at all. A family of four who make 10K a year, would probably get close to the maximum 4K in EIC credit anyway.

    Just to be clear a family of four making $35k only gets a whopping $1002 EIC not the $4k you are suggesting.

  131. cef21 says:

    @youbastid: How exactly do you take US currency and “turn it into” chinese currency? You need somebody who has yuan and is willing to trade it for US currency. In China, that happens to be the Chinese government, but it’s typically a bank.

    In general, when you buy something from a European country, they want to be paid in euros; the Japanese want to be paid in yen. After all, they need euros or yen to pay their employees or their suppliers. If they’re not paid in that currency, then, again, they have to find a bank willing to buy dollars and sell them yen or euros.

    Those banks are only going to buy dollars if they think that they’ll be useful for something in the future. And, the only way they can be used is by buying from countries who use the US dollar. Mainly, that’s the US.

    So, yes, US dollars are generally only useful for buying stuff from America.

  132. the_wiggle says:

    @holocron: and a tax credit for charity work expenses so we can get the under/un insured treatment.

    IF we get that alleged cash from Bush & Co, it’s going straight to my ER fund at ING.

  133. Hello_Newman says:

    Can they give us the money at tax time so we can use it to pay our tax bills? The irony would be delicious!