Bob Lutz, GM’s vice president and product chief, told reporters this week that new federal guidelines that require 35mpg fuel efficiency by 2020 (yes, more than a decade from now) are so stringent that it will end up costing an average of $6,000 more per vehicle. “That cost will have to be passed on to consumers,” he then threatened. We can’t help but feel sorry for GM. After all, this whole “better fuel efficiency” topic was only brought up, what, like two or three months ago? And GM only has twelve years to find cost-effective (we’d say “innovative” but don’t want to put too much pressure on such a backwards, fearful company) ways to lighten cars and improve engines.
“We probably have to take a lot of weight out of the vehicles. We will have to use some premium materials like more aluminum, more magnesium,” Lutz said. “Which gets you the weight savings but drives the cost up.”
“GM says new fuel requirements to add $6,000 per car” [Reuters]
(Photo: Getty)
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@jiminychristmas:
The problem is that what GM pays them ISNT what they are willing to pay. Its what they are forced to pay or they stroke. Besides they work they do isnt worth anything NEAR what they are paid. I worked in a union job once and saw how lazy everyone was. Nobody put forth any effort and why should they. Why should I work my ass off when some lazy slob next to me barely does any work and gets paid the same. Unions extort money from corporations and promotes mediocrity in employees
How will that raise prices 12 years from now? Toyota and Honda do it now for the same price. GM is a fraud…which is why I will never buy a car from them….
@CumaeanSibyl: I think it was in the January Popular Mechanics… or one of those other magazines I read in the airport. Clean diesel is going to be the bridge between gas and non-fossil fuels, I believe.
How much do GM’s lobbying efforts add to the price of the cars they’re already selling? Perhaps if they put that money and energy into the R&D required to produce safer, more efficient cars (which, as Toyota’s sales figures show, people DO want), everyone — their fast shrinking customer base, their employees and their shareholders — would benefit greatly.
American car companies have spent the last two decades lobbying against something that the market is now forcing them to do. Their continued failure to recognize this is baffling.
You guys know nothing about the auto industry, and you’re a bunch of schadenfreude-laden kids. Just because GM is speaking up doesn’t mean that this isn’t true for “green” Toyota and Honda as well (both of whom sell gas guzzlers; GM sells high MPG cars today). This isn’t something that only GM has to confront, but Ford, Chrysler, Daimler, VW, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and all the bit players, too. These guys all build gas guzzlers. They all also sell fuel-sipping cars.
Ten years, also, isn’t that far in the future for heavy industries such as the automobile, and certainly not for engines. Do you want a sludge-laden piece of crap that should never hit the market (like Toyota did), or something reliable and tested?
GM is lying. Japanese manufacturers are already doing better than that. And cars often cost LESS than GM current models.
If they raise prices by 6K, people will buy other brands.
Not a big loss.
@chouchou: While Maximum Bob is exaggerating wildly as he’s wont to do, the Japanese fleet average for vehicles sold in the US isn’t close to 35 mpg yet. They have cars that can do it, so does GM. Americans aren’t BUYING them, we want huge showy Land Cruisers and Sequoias, driving down Toyota’s fleet average that’s helped by the Prius, Corolla, Camry Hybrid, Camry 4 cylinder, etc.
If people were buying 4cylinder Malibus, Aveos, etc, instead of Tahoes and Suburbans and Escalades, GM’s CAFE would be higher now. It’s not the mix of vehicles offered, it’s the mix SOLD. The efficient car no one buys doesn’t solve anything.
LMAO!!! This, from the company who was short-sighted enough to KILL the EV-1. Go figure!
Look, this line (or some variant of it) is used every time efficiency standards are created or tightened in this country. From the very first efficiency standards, for refrigerators in California, some companies complained. In the end, they found new technologies that would allow them to meet the standards while providing better services. Generally, efficiency standards don’t raise prices too much. Rather, they promote innovation in what can be stagnant industries.
GM claimed that nobody wanted to buy the EV1 electrics. There were waiting lists and people hanging outside of the recall factory picketing trying to keep their cars pulled back when the leases ended. If they were anywhere in the range of new car prices and I was ready to buy a new car I would be all over it.
Were already seriously considering buying a SMART car.
I couldn’t afford an EV1 when they were out, but I used to stare at EV1 owner Ted Danson all the time outside the gym. I’m sure he thought I was stalking him, but the truth was, I was stalking his car.
I drive a 2004 Honda Insight hybrid. 1900lbs, park it in the mere notion of a parking space, looks like something out of Tom Swift. Oh yeah, and I spent $235 on gas. LAST YEAR. Yes, for the entire year.
Sorry, forgot. I get about 45 mpg in city street traffic, and 60 on the highway if traffic is flowing. And I have an automatic. People with manual on the Insight BB get 100 or more.
One negative: They just came out with some dumb commercial where the person forgets which side to pull up to the pump on to get gas — that was the reality for me for a while. After three years, I remember. But, I also used to leave my gas cap on my car and drive away. After the second time, they felt sorry for me at the Honda dealer and sold me the $12 off-brand replacement gas cap.
PS I’m originally from Detroit, and remember the oil crisis in the 70s. Detroit has been sitting on its technological ass for 30-plus years. And they’re whining now?
Gee… my old 1979 Mercedes-Benz diesel got 35mpg easily. If I remember correctly, the diesel version of the car was marginally higher or even possibly the same price. If Mercedes could do it THIRTY YEARS AGO, I’d hope GM could figure out how to do it some 40 years later.
This isn’t just a GM problem… how come all of the US car manufacturers build very inefficient cars? I recently had a Ford Tarus rental car (think it was a 4-cylinder) that only got 20-21mpg with city driving. My Japanese car with a V8 engine gets 23-25mpg with the same type of driving. Pathetic.
Headline from Jan. 1, 2020: “GM increases prices by $6,000 to meet fuel efficiency requirements. Goes out of business three hours later.”
@ripple: You think non-union shops don’t have the same problems? Ha. I should introduce you to the guys at my last job. They weren’t unionized, but they gave a damn good impression of it.
Toyota deserves a halo effect for their Prius. I’d buy one of their other cars if not their hybrid, precisely because some of my money would go to an even better hybrid down the line. Versus the extra money for a relatively fuel-efficient GM car (were I that dumb) would go for advanced cup-holder technology or ways to add even more dead weight to their SUV line.
Toyota already meets the mileage requirements. However they lobbied against the new requirements. Why? Because by 2010 they will be even further along and they are betting that will be enough to finally bury the “Big 3.” Nice.
Fuel economy standards are bad policy never the less. More taxes on gas will cause market forces to push things in the right direction, look at Europe and Japan. However, with Republicans there is no good time to raise a tax and no bad time to cut a tax. Since cars and trucks don’t pay a fair share for the costs of roads, deaths on the highway and pollution, everyone pays whether or not they drive or don’t drive or drive a high mileage car. When was the last time Federal Gas tax went up? Its been so damn long, I can’t even remember. Higher gas tax means more money to allocate to mass transportation also. Wouldn’t it be cool if we had 350 mph trains too?
Just a minute, I make that 42MPG (UK Gallon), which happens to be my average over the last 10000 miles, in my Vauxhall.
Guess Which Company Vauxhall is a subsidiary of!
(42 UK MPG is actually poor for a car in Europe)
It’s even more of a shock to GM because of the total surprise. “OMG, there’s concern about fuel economy? When did that happen?”
Apparently GM executives can’t hear the news about $100 a barrel oil, expensive gasoline, and global warming over the roar of thousands of hummers.
The rules of natural selection often cause the unfit to perish. So long, GM.
Actually toyota is a weird company they lobied for And against the new regulations. Which is weird for a company to do.
Boohoo GM; suck it up, quit bitching and actually make cars that are worth driving that also get decent mileage. You will be out of business by the time these regulations go into effect. Mark my words.
@coaster.n3rd: Lobotomy. There’s no such thing as a frontal “labe.”
@Ariel.Sanders: Breakfast Club, right?
I’ve got no pity for (or beef with) GM, but this thread is proof that most of the people who write for or post on this site never had to take a physics class. You can’t get something for nothing, especially when it comes to propelling several tons of metal and plastic at high speeds.
Many of you are missing the fact that the government shouldn’t be mandating this kind of crap in the first place. This mandate wasn’t directed at GM. It was imposed on all car makers. GM is merely pointing out the fact that regulations such as this result in higher costs which result in higher prices. Congress has no clue how to build a car, yet they impose these idiotic regulations on those who do. In addition, car companies who want to be successful have to build cars that people want and sell them at a profit. If this is truly what people want, then people will pay for it. If not, then people will have to step up and tell congress to stop this nonsense and leave industry and the free market alone and ley car makers build the cars that people want to buy.
@bravo369: wussify the Mustang? More than it is?
@JiminyChristmas: there will be plenty of oil to bring up long after we’re gone. Peak oil is a problem of amount extracted v. investment, not the amount left for us in the Earth.
@tz: there are many people with EVs to call BS on that. Interestingly, GM is trying to, as well.
@Christovir: they won’t die. They will throw the peas all around the room, and cry until daddy gives them a handout of your grandchildrens’ tax dollars.
@CaliforniaCajun: gas or desiel electric should be able take all three. But, apparently it wasn’t until the media coverage of their wonderful lease returns that they realized there might be people wanting something they weren’t already selling.
Ultimately, a fuel tax is the only real way to do it. Before that happens, though, I wonder how well the new diesel VWs do?
Remember what they said about airbags and seat belts and ABS brakes etc etc….
This mandatory fuel efficiency is what American car manufacturers need to encourage investment in new technology — and make them competitive to buyers in the other 80% of the world where fuel efficiency is the number one concern of buyers. Europe, China, India– buyers there need fuel efficient cars; if American automakers had invested in fuel efficiency 30 years ago, maybe they would have a larger market share overseas today.
It’s interesting reading the few comments on both sides regarding the “EV1″ and the documentary “Who Killed The Electric Car?” If you haven’t seen it, it’s absolutely worth watching.
Was there no demand for the EV1, or was is dead in the water due to lack of advertising, massive government subsidies for large SUVs, the inability to actually PURCHASE the car, GMs annihilation of the car against owner’s wills or simply some of the technological limitations of the time that can now be overcome?
I enjoyed watching it. The topic is well researched and gives you a lot of hope in what American car manufacturers are capable of – and a lot of dissapointment in what they do with that capability.
@ianmac47: Nothing personal, but you’re spouting ignorance. American cars already meet these standards overseas, and they have large market shares overseas.
Funny how nobody mentions decreasing the federal speed limit to 55. Ever. OMG tyranny!!!
Won’t 12 years worth of inflation raise car prices by that much anyway?
OK, it ate my comment. Let’s try again…
Won’t 12 years of inflation raise car prices by $6000 anyway?
@TheNubble: The government is trying to use regulation to prevent market failure. That’s a pretty standard reason for regulation, since Americans who drive gas-guzzlers aren’t paying for the negative externalities their purchases impose on everyone else.
Not to mention that if there was another gas crisis, and gas shot up to, say, $8 or $10/gallon relatively quickly, that would have an enormous impact on an unprepared American workforce and economy. Transportation costs would explode, driving up inflation and eroding our economy. To some extent, forcing car makers in the US to match the efficiency already proven to be possible by other countries’ fleets would ameliorate the damage.
While Congress may not know how to build a car, they are better equipped than GM to know which policies will protect the American economy and environment. It’s all a series of trade-offs, and I think making consumers pay more for cars is an acknowledgment of the need for the negative externalities to be addressed and paid for.
KIMSAMA: What “negative externalities” are you referring to. I would submit that one major negative externality resulting from cafe standards is the increased number of traffic deaths each year as cars become lighter and have more plastic parts. Also, have you seen the cars in Europe? I’d love to see a family of four take a vacation in a SMART car. Americans have a much different relationship with their cars than the rest of the world. It’s a whole different culture. We could control fuel prices if we had control of the market. Unfortunately, we are depecndant on foreign oil. If the government allowed industry to drill and refine oil here, this would not be an issue. Once again, government interference contributes to, rather than resolves, the problem.
Gah….nonsense. Who needs land yachts? I remember my gargantuan 1972 Buick LeSabre four door hardtop (No B Pillars) fondly but that’s in the past. I have to get 25 mpg or better NOW. Also, no more GM for me, they kept breaking.
@unklegwar: If you noticed, Honda have been getting larger too. Read recently that the Accord just made large car size.
@ShortBus: American Motors Corp…RIP.
@ShortBus: No, not really. The domestic car makers have been forcing their parts suppliers to outsource to China for a long time. My Subaru is more American then most.
@strum40: The Tundra and Tacoma are pickups, not SUVs.
@JiminyChristmas: Maybe $12.00 per liter.
@Freedomboy: Not all of us live where there’s mass transit. I used to live out in the country. Only buses that were public were bright yellow and went to only one place.
@Landru: It depends on the driving. I can get four or more miles then the EPA on any car, and still get there on time.
@GearheadGeek: Not me man, my land yacht was beached years ago.
@parnote:The main drawback about electric cars is range. It’s still more efficient to store energy in gas or diesel then a battery pack.
There was one guy who tried to drive across the USA. He gave up when he hit the coastal range, bought an old Suburban and a trailer so he could get across in less then a season. Another guy did manage to go a long way, but he built a diesel powered “pusher” to help.
@disavow: No one liked the double-nickel then and no one will like it now. Live out west or in the central plains, it is a much longer ride to civilization.
@TheNubble:Cars in Europe, especially the German ones are safer. Saw a picture of one guy walking away from an autobahn wreck and as I recall, no speed limits, though that may be changing. Some cool pictures of cars in trees, amazing what happens at warp speed.
My grandpa had a friend from Mexico who had a funny wordplay with the Ford brand name, when something like ordinary construction and daily repairs or so.
Ever since I have had a car, I’ve gone and got Honda or Mazda. I’ve wanted a Subaru, but don’t want to drive all the way to the other end of the city to the only dealership here.
In any case, let them whine. The industry will just comply b/c somebody will have cars that comply with no problems and at a relatively good price. (Won’t say who, every body knows)
Joke.
Why should GM have any more trouble making efficient cars than Japanese makers?
@CamilleR: Congrats on your Yaris … hope you like it.
GM *DOES* make cars that are inexpensive and get decent fuel economy. Chevy Aveo, Pontiac Vibe, Pontiac G5, Chevy Cobalt all come to mind.
To those of you claiming the advertising FORCES people to want bigger cars … that’s a “chicken or the egg” scenario. It happens that GM’s best sellers are their bigger vehicles because that’s what people want. No one is strong-arming them into buying a Yukon XL when they came to the showroom for an Aveo. Sorry – doesn’t happen.
Couple things from reading the comments.
One. I’d like to mirror the total lack of sympathy for GM. Complaining about how expensive it’ll be to do something that other companies have been putting into better-made and cheaper cars for years? My 8-year-old Civic does this already, and it’s already lasted longer than any GM car my family has owned.
Two. Why the fuss over buying American? It’s funny to me that it’s generally the most stalwart free-market capitalists who say you should base your buying decision on something other than cost. Furthermore, why is a job in America more valid than a job in another country? Why does someone here deserve it more just by being American? If I buy a car, I’m supporting the people who made it, period. Just because that person is Mexican, Japanese, or whatever doesn’t mean they deserve it less. Isn’t the whole idea behind the free market the idea that the money goes to the people who make the best products for cheapest? Why does that beautiful theory of yours go out the window when that means giving money to a fer-in-er?
Finally, GM, you are welcome to add $6,000 to the price of cars that are generally overpriced to begin with. I’ll just go spend less on a Honda or Toyota that will last me three times as long and cost me a tenth in maintenance.
@AD8BC: “When they make a diesel F-150 that gets me 50 MPH, by golly I’m going to buy one to replace my gas guzzler.”
cough…keep your eyes peeled….cough
I would buy a diesel car in the US if the big three made one!
The auto companies do not have that long to make the technology. First off they are already working on the 2012 vehicles now and engines are developed prior to working on the rest of the vehicle. In order to test and validate so that people get a “quality product” that adds at least another year to that date. So what looks like 12 years is actually more like 6.
On that note I am calling BS on Lutz, according to the GM powertrain chief ([www.edmunds.com]) they will have the HCCI ([en.wikipedia.org]) engines before 2020. Which is a diesel like MPG from a gas engine.
The Chevy Aveo, a Daewoo I know, is less than 11k and gets 34MPG. GM sells the crap out of this car too.