The federal government continues to bungle the transition to digital television, this time by making it difficult for consumers to redeem subsidy coupons for DTV converter boxes.
Consumers can request the $40 coupons now, but they expire after 90 days even though converter boxes are still not widely available. Mouse Print broke down all the known caveats:
1. You cannot combine the coupons toward the purchase of a single box (each will cost between $50 and $70 approximately).2. The coupons expire 90 days from their mailing to you, and expired coupons will not be replaced.
3. There are only 22.5 million coupons unless Congress authorizes 11.25 million more.
4. While some boxes have already been approved, more are expected.
5. Many if not most retailers do not have the boxes in stock yet.
If you or your grandparents still rely on bunny ears to receive your television signal, ask your local electronics store when they expect to stock the digital converter boxes before requesting your subsidy coupon.
Mouseprint rightly argues that the coupons should not expire. The federal government shouldn’t worry that throngs of coupon-wielding seniors will bankrupt the treasury by simultaneously redeeming their DTV coupons. This is the sort of problem the government might be able to tackle if a single official was overseeing the DTV transition.
DTV Coupons: The Consumer Catch-22 [Mouse Print]
(Photo: anomalous4)
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Re: #1
The boxes won’t be $50-70 – EchoStar has already announced their box, going to be $39.99 – taking pre-orders now.
@JustAGuy2: Yep! I can see myself getting that one. $40 – $40 = $0.
AND, it’s not like they are mailing coupons out immediately. Taken directly from the confirmation I received:
“IMPORTANT:
TV converter boxes are not expected to be available in retail stores until late February or early March. You will receive your Coupon(s) then. The Coupon will expire within 90 days from the date it is issued.”
But will the EchoStar box be approved for the coupon?
You know…. I just cant help but feel that I am somehow going to get screwed in this whole deal. I use rabbitears.
I wonder if all the cheapest boxes will go first. Forcing people to buy the more expensive ones or let their coupons expire before cheaper ones are made available again.
This ought to confuse seniors more than Medicare part D.
I’m sure there will be a run of articles on how questionable electronics store employees misinform senior consumers in order to sell them a new TV instead.
we wouldnt need these silly coupons if people would just keep up with technology…im sure but anyone without a DTV of some sort should just be left behind. You can buy a DTV at Walmart for the same price as one of these box’s and have been able to do so for about 5 years now.
My father-in-law lives in the woods. Literally. No cable, can’t get a “dish” to get reception through the thick layer of trees, and currently uses a TV antenna on a tower to get “snowy” analog TV.
[www.antennaweb.org] pretty much confirms he won’t get a usable digital signal even with a directional antenna.
Now this is anecdotal I know, but it does make me wonder how many people will go dark next year.
@parad0x360:
WHY should I throw out my 5 year old 35 inch tv I paid $500 for that still works perfectly? SO I can waist money on new technology? Pffft! I’d rather spend 10-20 bucks on a converter box, then have to shell out $500+ on a comparably sized new signal-compatable TV!
Savvy retailers would offer to accept the $40 coupon towards the purchase of a new HDTV. Not that they’d be able to cash in on the actual $40, but it would still get people in the door and spending money.
@dh86sj:
Actually, retailers can _only_ accept coupons towards the purchase of an approved converter box. There are limits as to what can be defined as an approved box (for purposes of the coupon), so a box with extra features not related to conversion (i.e. a converter that is also a DVR) won’t be covered. I didn’t read the rules close enough, so a coupon-approved retailer may be able to accept the coupon towards purchase of a TV or whatever, but they definitely won’t be able to collect on that coupon from the government (so the retailer will be eating the $40).
No one mentions that the UHF Digital TV signals do not travel around objects as well as the old VHF. Buildings, trees, and hills can block it. My last 2 locations I could get perfect analog signals but not a single digital stations from the same broadcast towers. What for all the people who get the box but cannot get reception?
@parad0x360: You’re an idiot.
1. Shitty TVs are sold at Wally World.
2. I REFUSE to shop at Wally World.
3. I don’t spend enough time watching my TV to merit buying a new one simply so I can pay $$$ for Cable or Satellite TV.
4. Most of my time spent in front of the TV is watching DVDs, not broadcast. The main reason being I hate commercials.
5. I’ve got other priorities for $500 than buying a new TV, e.g. paying off bills and living debt free.
6. Clearly you don’t have kids, because if you did you’d know how what $500 means to a family.
This whole coupon situation is sort of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If you order early, you have to rush to get one before your coupon expires. If you wait until the converters are more prevalent to order your coupon, you run the risk of them running out of coupons.
The fact that the coupons expire makes this a really crappy situation.
@capkincaid:
Yup, it’s on the list: [www.ntiadtv.gov]
My theory is that if grandpas tv in the garage stops showing baseball games, grandpa may just grab his buddies and a few shotguns and hit the streets, coupon or no coupon.
Ive got standing bets to friends that the analog signals will not be shut off for another 10 years
The issue is that most people acquiring these coupons are not actually those who need them. The demographics which these coupons were intended for are not the same groups with consistent convenient access to the internet to easily get these coupons.
The demographics who are snapping up these coupons are the people with more money to keep up with technology and will most likley waste the coupons tiding themselves over until the replace the set entirely.
A good idea to keep access open to all poorly implemented in a way that makes it easier for the richer to get than deserving.
Let’s remember, for better or worse, that the FCC will auction off the spectrum that analog signals currently use, and doing so has been public knowledge for years. Though the FCC is very much in the pocket of big corporations, its mandate since 1934 has been to work in the public interest–and using that spectrum for a large number of people who could use it for mobile networks, etc., vs. the small number of people who would use it for analog-broadcast TV sets probably is legitimately in the public interest.
For that reason, the whole converter box thing seems thrown together at the last minute: the FCC never thought–with years’ worth of warning and huge subsidies for cable companies–that consumers would end up in the position of even needing a converter box.
@parad0x360: What do you suggest for families that own and use multiple televisions? Upgrading every set in house would easily set a family back over a thousand dollars.
@thirdgen: I think that is what dh86sj is implying, just mark up the prices some, and “accept” the coupons. “Why pay up to $90 for a box, when you can put that money to use on a whole new tv?” goes the copy in my head.
But yeah this “explanation” is actually mostly wrong. The coupons expire 90 days from issue. No retailer wants to put the boxes out yet, as it would just be a cause of returns, and accusations once the coupons came in.
Also for the most part waiting for boxes is going to be silly, the rules are very strict about what can be and what can’t be included. If one wants to wait, one waits for the SmartAntenna discounts. Boxes have already been priced at $40 as there is no economic pressure to go lower (you can’t get money back) they will offer discounted pricing on the SmartAntenna.
@parad0x360: Are you kidding me? So I guess that means you have an iPhone, a hybrid car, and the latest type of solar panel on your house?
hooray for government subsidies!
Unfortunately for some, the beat of technology goes on. Its ok rabbit ears users, it could be worse. At least you don’t have to upgrade your horse and buggy to a Model T in order to go to the saloon.
@forgottenpassword: you could buy a 35 inch dtv for $150 my friend.
@DeliBoy: no no and no. TV’s with digital tuners have been around for about 15 years. They have been affordable for more then 5. There is a reason the switch to digital is being made and its not luxary like an iphone. You dont need to buy an HDTV to have a digital tv…any memorex tv you buy at walmart for $50-$200 has a digital tuner.
Sometimes technology dies, this is one of those times but at the very least this time the Government is trying to ease said transition. The same cant be said for the millions who were forced to upgrade their cell phones just a couple short years ago. There was no huge outcry then.
@parad0x360: I guess some of you haven’t been paying much attention. Many of us have not exactly had a bountiful life in the last 5 or more years. A LOT of people haven’t had the extra bucks to buy any new TV, let alone a digital one. Duh!
@forgottenpassword: amen to that. both our tv’s are well over 7yrs old and working just fine thank you!
it’s the folks who cannot afford basic cable or a new tv that are going to get totally screwed.
omg, that kitty looks *exactly* like my leila. without the coat hangers, of course.
@parad0x360: You’re a jckass. Televisions aren’t meant to be disposable. It is a tremendous waste to simply throw away perfectly good sets. If the government mandated this, then they should pony up the proper amount of coupons for all to get the necessary converter. This is a complete cluster fuck, and is a prime example of how screwed up government can be.
@weave: Time to trim some trees and/or put a satellite dish on top of that tower that has the antenna on it now.
@mightypen: You mock, but the public airwaves are just that, owned by the public and access to the airwaves are a de facto constitutional right. So if FCC is going to mandate the change and do such a piss poor job of communicating it to the people who are affected the most, these coupons are the least they can do.
@parad0x360: You’re on crack. “affordable” televisions with digital tuners have been around for a few years max.
My 61″ Sony RPTV was a higher end television less than 6 years ago, and it doesn’t have a digital tuner in it. Until recently most televisions didn’t have ANY digital capabilities.
@doctormd
1) Digital reception should improve greatly when analog is turned off.
2)And newer generation digital receivers are supposed to be much better at receiving signals.
3)Digital signals propagate the same way analog signals do. Same antennas, same wires, etc. If you get a ghost on analog, you’re going to have dropouts on digital.
4) The difference is that receivers deal with bad signals differently. Analog receivers get static and zigzags and roll, while digital receivers get blocky and then don’t display anything.
As a radioshack employee, I can say this is going to be a huge mess.
Nobody knows when they will be in stock (old people aren’t going to pro-order them off some new-fangled web outfit). I haven’t seen anything about how to accept the coupons (I’m sure this will eventually be figured out, but probably not easily). What happens when the old person can’t figure out how to use the converter box? Are they going to get money back for the coupon, be able to re-order the coupon, or just be out the promised $40?
@spenceman01: … except the coupons won’t go out until the boxes are expected to be available …
Is there a website(s) that lists the television models that do or do not have digital tuners?
what till you see what they do to our healthcare when we let the govt control it! Yippeeeeeeee!
@spinachdip: Actually, they are not a de facto right, because if it was a de facto right, it would be written into the constitution. It’s not.
@swalve:
The public maintains rights to all natural resources, including the airwaves, discovered or used in the USA.
Oil companies pay the government for the privilege of pulling oil out of the ground in the US, even on private property.
Mining companies pay the government for the privilege of pulling ore and minerals from the ground in the US, even on private property.
Broadcasters pay the government for the privilege of being allowed to utilize the EM spectrum to broadcast signals.
All of this money-taking is (supposedly) on behalf of The People of the United States in trust and, yes, it is codified.
@weave: From my experiments, the digital signals just won’t work as well in many situations where an acceptable (but not perfect) analog signal can be received. From what I’ve seen, mobile reception of TV is going to be mostly impossible with the DTVs and DTV tuners I’ve tried. So far I’ve not found a satellite TV dish small enough to use in a passenger car.
@misstic: I’m all for socialised medicine, just not in the USA. The government here has shown that it’s 100% incapable of handling anything that requires planning.
I’m not in a hurry. I think as the demand rises, the cost of these converter boxes will drop. And I’m pretty sure next generation DVR’s and DVD recorders (and maybe even VCR’s) will have built in digital tuners anyways.
@RIBEX:
The TV manufacturers usually list the specs on their website for each of their products. Look for “ATSC tuner” somewhere in the specs. That will let you know, it can receive digital TV broadcasts.
@swalve: “de facto” as it’s used in English, means “in practice, if not in letter of the law” or something to that effect. If I’d written “de jure constitutional right”, then you’d be right, but I didn’t.
@misstic: I agree! Just look at the horrific death rates in countries with government-funded healthcare! [krugman.blogs.nytimes.com]
Nobody is going to get screwed on this. Out of 22 million coupons issued, nobody anywhere will get screwed. Because it is free. Free. And you can’t get screwed out of something you are not owed. You simply pay attention to the instructions on their Web site, order the coupon when you see the boxes in stores, and realize this is a subsidy to help you buy a box to help bring our communications in the U.S. into the 21st century, instead of something for free.
Of course, people will use their coupon to get less-than-perfect boxes. Or there will not be an option they want. And people will wonder why they can’t get another free box that is better. Read all about it here, on Consumerist, where people who are getting something for free can still find something to complain about — either the government, digital TV, Best Buy or Comcast.
Buy a new TV if you don’t like the government’s $40 dollar gift to you.
The coupons will keeps thousands upon thousands of useful televisions out of the land fills. That is an incredible savings to the government. As to people complaining that everyone should have been buying digital televisions, you’ve got too much money burning away in your pockets. Besides, the simple fact that TV stations have gone to broadcasting in digital means that my analog TV now gets the best picture it’s ever seen. All without an upgrade.
Reminder: the coupons aren’t being mailed until the boxes hit the stores (according to the govt.) The first few weeks they are out I am guessing Wal-Mart and the like will sell them for no more than $50.
@il1lupo1970: OMG those clothes hangers look “exactly” like mine. Without the kitty, of course.
@dh86sj:
Right.
I’m not really interested in a box, but I am in the market for a new TV. HD not necessary; digital will do fine.
If the idea is to ensure people will have access to the new digital signals, the coupon should be able to be used towards the purchase of a new digital TV.
@parad0x360:
Provide a link to a name brand one. Not some “vizio” brand that just appeared within the past few years.
So unless you can provide a link to a 35 inch $150 magnavox, panasonic, sony (in other words… a reliable well-known brand name) to replace my 5 year old magnavox that still works fine….. your post is meaningless.
@thirdgen:
There is a class action suit in the works to force the government to allow the coupons to be used for the purchase of digital TV’s.
Just remember, it’s the Republicans that have fucked this thing up.
They need to extend the analog broadcasts at least for two more years.
God forbid people might wind up without television. They might start talking to each other, or maybe voting. While I realize the government is mandated to maintain free access to the public airwaves, the content of those airwaves of late renders this populist notion quaint at best, and grossly disingenuous at worst.
@forgottenpassword: Vizio is actually the number one brand of flat-panel TVs in the US today. I bought one a couple of months ago, and have been very satisfied.
@JustAGuy2: I think I will get one even though I already have a (crappy) hdtv. Then I could get a cheap regular tv and still be able to use it if the dtv switch ever happens.
These boxes are going to be the one of the most misunderstood consumer electronics items of the decade – especially when you have to swap out the big unwieldy VHF antenna for a new UHF one at the same time to really get them to work.
I was tempted to sign up for my coupon but I’m going to wait. My $40 gift may wind up getting bought and then re-sold on eBay.