A 5-year-old boy was detained as “security risk” because he had the same name of someone on the TSA “No-Fly” list. The TSA had to conduct a full search of their persons and belongings. When his mother went to pick him up and hug him and comfort him during the proceedings, she was told not to touch him because he was a national security risk. They also had to frisk her again to make sure the little Dillinger hadn’t passed anything dangerous weapons or materials to his mother when she hugged him. Pretty insane. If you’re ever mistakenly on the No-Fly list, here’s how to get off it.
5-year-old mistaken for criminal at airport [KING5 via Elliot]
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Dillinger? Gross.
@chili_dog: Political correctness is one thing, lack of common sense and human decency is another. There have been psychological experiments about giving untrained grunts power over others and they usually end with a bad result. See “The Stanford Prison Experiment”, where college undergrad volunteers were taken into a virtual prison for what was supposed to be 2 weeks. Students were randomly chosen as to whether they were guards or prisoners. The guards were given minimal training and left to their own ways. The guards quickly became vindictive and at least 1/3rd of them became very sadistic. The study was ended after only 6 days because of how quickly the situation had degraded. The “prisoners” felt totally dehumanized while the “guards” were increasingly perverted and degrading towards the prisoners.
What I see the TSA agents doing is not too dissimilar.
@algormortis: Ironically, I have the smoothest time with the TSA agents @ JFK compared to the ones in TPA. Of course, knowing airline crew at JFK certainly makes the whole experience run much more smoothly.
My most recent round-trip flight (TPA-JFK) was very similar to all the others I’ve had. TPA’s screening lines in Terminal A are similar to the long cattle-lines you’ll find at amusement parks. While it would make sense to join at the end of the line of people, and they have gaps in the stanchions that would appear to be for this purpose, there was TSA agent there yelling at people that they needed to enter at the beginning of the stanchions and go round & round to meet the end of the line of people. I thought this guy was going to have a heart/panic attack over it.
So, finally make my way towards the 4-5 x-ray & magnetometer lines and watch in horror as the one short, squat 4×4 (she was 4′ tall x 4′ wide) was barking out that anyone with electronics had to take every single piece of electronic equipment out of their carryons and place them into separate bins. I’m looking at my backpack containing: 2 still cams, 1 video cam, a week’s worth of batteries, cell phone charger, battery chargers, PDA, laptop, video encoder box, misc. cables, external HDD, pocket router, and lord knows what else, thinking to myself “oh sh*t.” It was looking like I was going to be routed into that lane, so I crouched down on the ground and fumbled around with my backpack, acting like I was looking for a boarding pass and let a few other people go by.
This was enough to get me in a security lane with more reasonable people. The x-ray screener barked out in a military tone “Sir, you don’t have enough batteries in your bag.” I replied, “I’ll try harder next time, Sir” and went on my way. I can only imagine what would have happened if I had gotten stuck in the first lane.
The flight back from JFK was totally uneventful. Met up with my friend who works for the airline, we chatted for a bit, we walked up to the crew/employee secure area where there was NO waiting. Threw the shoes in a bin and the laptop/PDA/cell phone in another. No problem, no hassle. And these TSA agents were smiling! (Is that allowed?) We had lunch and parted ways, no problems. If THIS was the typical TSA experience, I don’t think anyone would be complaining.
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The TSA is in stark contrast to the SS and other federal police/law enforcement agencies which protect some of the high security buildings I go to for my job. TRUE security professionals at those. The suit and tie is probably a good start — makes them feel professional. These guys are calm, cool, efficent and very observant. After awhile they’ll even greet you by name. “Good Morning Mr. ______, how are you today?” The conversation isn’t just a nicety — it’s how they judge people’s state of mind and intentions when they enter the buildings. They’re also very polite. It’s never “show me” or “you must”, instead it’s always “may I see you bag/ID/etc.” It’s a little thing, but it goes a long way.
@Jim: You’re assuming that the average TSA employee is intelligent enough to pursue an alternate career at, say, McDonald’s.
@mercurypdx: re: small kids as infection vectors, ain’t that the truth! A few of the local hospitals here banned the vermin from sections of the hospital, such as intensive care & post-op. I’ve been in bed half the day today b/c of a friend’s little rugrat spreading her joy all around the room over the weekend.
@chili_dog: yeah over sensitive is right. funny how old people arent offended because you said he was a kid, but the race card is played immeditately. everyone else, remove that stick please.
@chili_dog: Great… so now the consumerist comment board is being turned into a racial debate…
@MrEvil: Four words for you “don’t tase me bro!”
@Papa Midnight: What can I say other then everyone seems worked up today. Must be all the vitriol because of the primaries. I’m gonna wander back to dKos for some sanity.
As I mentioned above, if we want to play the race game, let’s do that. Conservative White males are the primary source of terrorism in the US. And, I’m not talking in some hippy metaphoric sense. White guys have blown up more stuff and tried to instill more fear on groups through violence in the US than middle-eastern extremists. As far as death count (if you want to measure it that way), they’re pretty close. So, let’s stop all the conservative white males, give them extra screening, treat them like criminals even if they haven’t done anything, threaten them if they object, etc. and see how long that lasts.
@boandmichele: Are you deliberately obtuse? chili_dog said “you’re a little *white* kid, off you go”. He brought the race card into it. If he had just said “you’re a little kid, off you go”, everyone would have just agreed with what he said. But having people quote you and pay attention to you is so much more fun, isn’t it? Even if you are being an e-tard.
@ARP: What are those FACTS? Shhhhhhhh stop with all that nonsense, we’ve got a war to manage!
@DrGirlfriend: Actually, it’s just a list of names, last time I heard. No DOB, not even ages or nationality.
It might be nice if the TSA published the list five years ago so these parents would know what NOT to name their child.
@Royal72 – actually, you can create a nice “explosion” with mentos & diet coke!
Where do they get these people?
This incident is just another example of how TSA has been empowered with a level of authority that appears to exceed the mental reasoning and common sense capabilities of many of their front line personnel.
It would be interesting to know if any kind of psychological or reason based-testing is done on these any of folks during their employment screening process.
I seriously doubt it because of the constant parade of examples that keep surfacing regarding their behavior on the job.
@FLConsumer: We should play them against the RIAA somehow, and have them fight to the death, 300 style.
Could have been a young looking teenager. It’s like how everyone is supposed to get carded for drinks and smokes.
Everyone is out to cover their backsides, because if anything happens they will be “made an example” of, you know to get the spotlight off the higher ups.
Since when did Al-Qaeda outsource recruitment to the Sesame Workshop?
Oh my God!!!
Big Bird is really Osama Bin Laden. Of course! It all makes sense now.
@machete_bear: Other than making a lot of noise and costing quite a bit of money, I don’t know that either side would be competent enough to actually injure anyone from the other side, let alone actually kill someone. Shooting a gun is a 3-step process (ready, aim, fire). The TSA and RIAA only seem to be capable of two steps at most. Passenger, harrass, and Customer, sue, respectively.
Further evidence that many TSA employees should be sterilized before they breed, or breed again.
@unklegwar:
I have never seen anyone complain about TSA not adhering to no-fly lists. Please point me to somewhere that people are actually doing that.
@ARP: I’ve heard stories about people who believe the TSA makes us safer, but I’ve never actually met one of them. I think they’re myths.
@Elviswasntmyhero: then who is snuffleupagus?
@TechnoDestructo:
“I have never seen anyone complain about TSA not adhering to no-fly lists. Please point me to somewhere that people are actually doing that.”
Al lot of people have complained about the TSA adhering to their flawed and uncorrected no-fly lists…
Feds Pay To Settle ACLU “No Fly” Lawsuit:
SAN FRANCISCO — The federal government has agreed to pay $200,000 in attorneys’ fees to the American Civil Liberties Union of Northern California to end a Freedom of Information and Privacy Act lawsuit that succeeded in making public, for the first time, hundreds of records about the government’s secret “no fly” list used to screen airline passengers after September 11, 2001.
“This case helped shed light on the existence and creation of the ‘no fly’ list and other secret transportation watch lists, raising serious questions about its effectiveness and value,” said Thomas R. Burke, a cooperating attorney with Davis Wright Tremaine LLP in San Francisco.
The records revealed that the government watch list was implemented long before any coordinated policy was in place. The documents reflected, among other things, confusion, inter-agency squabbling and the admission that the criteria in placing names on the list are “necessarily subjective” and “not hard and fast rules.”
“We brought the lawsuit because we believe the public has a right to know about the ‘no fly’ list and other government watch lists,” said Jan Adams. “And we succeeded in doing so by making public hundreds of pages of documents that not only confirmed the existence of the ‘no fly’ list, but exposed many of the serious problems with the secret list. Only by informed public debate can we make our government accountable and our country safer.”
As a result of the lawsuit, the public learned how many individuals were on the “no fly” list. As of September 11, 2001, only 16 individuals were identified as being banned from air travel; the following day, more than 400 were listed, and by December 2001 there were 594 names. As of December 2002, there were 1,000 names on the list, according to the records the government was ordered to release. The “no fly” list is now believed to include tens of thousands of names, according to the ACLU. In November of 2005, the TSA indicated that 30,000 people in the last year alone had contacted the agency because their names had been mistakenly matched to a name on the federal government’s watch lists.
The settlement was reached only days after the ACLU filed a lawsuit against the National Security Agency seeking to stop a secret electronic surveillance program that allows the NSA to monitor and collect e-mails and phone calls from innocent Americans without court approval. The lawsuit was filed on behalf of a group of prominent journalists, scholars, attorneys and national nonprofit organizations who frequently communicate by phone and e-mail with people in the Middle East. The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in the Eastern District of Michigan, seeks a court order declaring that the spying is illegal and ordering its immediate and permanent halt. More information is available online at http://www.aclu.org/nsaspying
The ACLU has also filed Freedom of Information Act requests in 20 states on behalf of more than 150 organizations and individuals seeking information about FBI spying. In response, the government has released documents that reveal FBI monitoring and infiltration by the FBI and local law enforcement, targeting political, environmental, anti-war and faith-based groups. All the documents received to date are available online at http://www.aclu.org/spyfiles
@Elviswasntmyhero: Everyone knows Bert is the #2 in Al-Qaeda.
@GearheadGeek: I don’t know if I’d take it THAT far. The TSA screeners I’ve seen don’t look anywhere near as scary as the Mal-Wart employees. They’re just generally grumpy, have too much power, and lack in common sense. Pretty much what I’d expect for bargain-basement security guards. See also Rent-A-Cops at your local shopping mall.
Some day, some father will see his kid be made upset or get upset himself and go postal, last time I looked the FIRST place a gun can be detected at SeaTac is well within range, but outside the detector, of the TSA as targets. The same folks would run TSA likely think the death penalty is a deterent so they just might get…er….detered.
TSA is a fake, anyone with half a brain could get a sharpened plastic shiv inside a roll along case’s tubing or tucked in the lid up against the seam. Seems like they only are there to be there.
@FLConsumer:
Simple get off your butts and start stumping for Ron Paul and get him elected.
“Viva Seattle-Tacoma, viva viva Sea-Tac. Viva viva viva viva viva Sea-Tac: they’ve got the best computers and coffee and smack.”
@Trauma_Hound: You mean the same Ron Paul that called MLK a gay pedophile, said “Homosexuals, not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities.”, supports the gold standard which would ruin our economy, and said “If you have to use a gun on a youth, you should leave the scene immediately, disposing of the wiped off gun as soon as possible. Such a gun cannot, of course, be registered to you, but one bought privately (through the classifieds, for example).”? (Source: here)
@omerhi: I really doubt chili_dog meant that to be a racial statement. He was merely making a quote of the situation. Sure you can argue he should have known better. Well maybe everyone else should have known better than to read into the statement so deeply.
The mother did not appear to be angered by this episode, and it appears she even likes the attention. The boy indeed does look mighty suspicious playing with that batmobile thing, I must say. Overzealous yes, but think if you were the security agent and the plane went down. I don’t blame them. They are robots and that is what they are (under)paid to do. If we actually have this database of names, why isn’t the FBI going out and finding the real people on the list and arresting them? Once in custody the name can be removed from the list and everyone else who shares the name can fly without intrusion.
FLOYDIANSLIP 6-
OK City Bombing- 180 dead, 800 wounded.
Columbine- 12 dead, 24 wounded (It’s a stretch that it was a terrorist attack, but their goal was to kill people and cause fear, so it qualifies)
Atlanta Olympic Bombing- 1 dead, 111 wounded
Army of God bombing of Abortion clinic- 1 dead, 12 wounded.
I could go on. Before the flames come, my response was very specific to a statement the “problem” is that we have to treat everyone equally and that’s why this 5 year old got stopped.
My two responses are 1) White conservative males have their fair share of terrorists and we don’t treat all of them like suspects. 2) You live in a dreamworld if you think the TSA is colorblind because of this incident. I have Indian friends who arrive 15 minutes earlier than they should because they “magically” get extra screening every time. The TSA agents can’t even do racial profiling right.
And thus the world was saved. What heroes.
I am pleased that none of the kids-on-plane-haters has cheered the TSA on this
Regardless of the obvious idiocy of suspecting a kindergartener of terrorism just because of his name, I do not think that they are legally allowed to isolate a minor from his parent(s) like that — she couldn’t even TOUCH him? That is fucked up.
@ARP: Was David Koresh a Republican?
I think we’re all over-reacting a little.
Security isn’t meant to be convenient (though it shouldn’t be the pain in the a$$ that some TSA employees like to make it).
Security SHOULD profile, although not just passed on race or religion. However, there should also be random measures (which includes jacking up 5 year olds and grandmas). Military anti-terrorism measures always include random measures, that might not make sense , taken out of context.
Who do I blame for inconsistent airport security? The trainers, the govt, the employees, and yes, the public.
When people screw up, it’s either they are dead weight (TSA probably has quite a few of those), or they weren’t trained properly. The government doesn’t provide enough resources and isn’t clear on policies ( I don’t know how many times I’ve been told different things at the check point (put your bag in a tray, don’t put it in a tray… etc)
Why blame the public? They don’t listen, or read the signs at the security check points. I’m sure the average TSA employee gets yelled out several times a day, leading to a high turn over of TSA employees.
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Several years ago, my daughter (4 at the time) was flying with my parents. She was pulled aside for additional screening. She loved the additional attention. My parents thought it was great. TSA employee was very polite.
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Still, I’d like to hear TSA’s side of the story.
And no I don’t work for the TSA.
I’ve never been afraid of brown people with bomb vests, but damn if I don’t feel a bit afraid every day hearing about these kinds of ridiculous abuses from the TSA and similar agencies. I think I have a greater chance of being killed crossing the street.
For all of the terrorism deaths that ARP listed (194 + ~2800 from 9/11) we’ve gone and spent enough money to temporarily solve our societal ills, killed 151,000 Iraqis, and over 3,900 US troops. No wonder some call US the terrorists. Yeah, I see what you did there…
Oh yeah, 16,885 deaths due/related to drunk driving in 2005. Maybe we should have TSA at the doors to bars instead.
Detaining a 5 year old child in for such obvious bullshit America?
So now you can’t touch or comfort your detained kid because he’s an alleged national security risk?
Give me a fucking break.
Arbitrarily detaining and releasing people is one of the elements of control historically used by fascist regimes. It is intended to be known and travel by word of mouth (or media) to make people shut up and adhere further to this nonsense.
As long as we act like sheep and just shut up and allow it to occur, it will continue to devolve further into whatever we allow.
Thomas Jefferson had it right when he said that “All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.”
That “Resistance is futile” is also pure bullshit.
We wouldn’t be living in this country today if it were true.
@algormortis: I’m not sure naming an airport after Will Rogers ups the coolness factor, considering that the man died in a plane crash.
Actually, OKC has two airports named after plane crash victims. Wiley Post is the other.
This is what happens when people get into the habit of unquestioningly following orders without exercising any judgment whatsoever.
Anyone who actually feels safer because of the TSA might be interested in this rock I have for sale that keeps bears away… I certainly haven’t seen any bears around me since I’ve owned it!
These TSA agents were following orders. They have strict orders to detain anyone on the list, they are specifically *not* allowed to make a judgment call based upon the appearance of the individual.
You either racially profile or not. If not then you must use a list.
@FLConsumer: Yes, THANK you. They are actually part of the PROBLEM, NOT the solution. At least one other person out there has clear vision.
@OMG! Ponies!: And herein lies the problem and why I believe the TSA is part of the problem, not the solution: They give the illusion of security, without actually providing said security. Most large aircraft are not armed with anti missile technology, and the next attack will most likely involve some surface to air missile. We’re wasting money on bullshit instead of spending it on legitimate items that would actually increase our safety in the air. Sad, pathetic, so very very human.
@chili_dog: f4## ‘em, dude. I understand your point, and clearly you’re not a troll. I’ve found the people most sensitive to ‘racism’ end up being racist themselves, much like those most vehemently against pron tend to be the kinkiest sickos around. Go figure. TSAGFY.
They had to make sure he wasn’t smuggling a bomb in his Spider-Man underoos.
The TSA people who did this should be extraordinarily renditioned for their extreme stupidity. A 5-year old? WTF is wrong with these people.
My goodness!
In my land, we are NEVER probed, or even stopped!
Unless of course we have packed aboard a delicious Lamb Korma with some Sag Aloo, as I did the other day for my nephew Pushtab, who sometimes resides in the United States, where he helps outsource various softwears to my land.
Good heavens! But I digress so much!
The authorities in my land had no problem with the curry. But it was immediately confiscated by some disagreeable gentlemen in the US airport, who complained that it smelled like “Semtex” whatever that is! Probably some kind of fluid used in cow insemination, I assume! But why would I want to import our excellent (and sacred!)Brahma bull “seed” to use on those inferior American cows which they butcher to use as disgusting Macdonald meat?
Shameful!
Next time I shall bring dear Pushtab a bottle of my prized Pinoqachole. It is ALSO nectar of the gods! But this time, it will be in my CHECKED luggage!
Americam barbarians indeed!
Poor Pushtab… Thankfully he will be home soon with many of thos “softwear” jobs whetever that is…
And he can buy me a new Tata Nano!
@ARP:
The olympic bomber was never caught, so how can you say it was a conservative white man. For that matter, the OK bombers were radical right wingers, not conservatives.