According to a survey by the University of Chicago, 48% of doctors said “they have given at least one treatment when there was no evidence it would work.”
From the Chicago Sun-Times:
Placebo treatments included vitamins, herbal supplements, saline infusions, dummy pills and doses of medicine too low to be effective.
One of the most common placebo treatments was giving antibiotics for viral infections that don’t respond to antibiotics.
Unneeded antibiotics? Oh, what an awesome idea.
I actually caught a doctor of mine doing this. I was experiencing a crazy type of insomnia where I’d wake up every 45 minutes all night long for like, um, years. I finally decided that this was abnormal and went to the doctor to ask for some help. He said it was probably “stress” and prescribed something to take before bed.
When I went to fill the prescription, the pharmacist goes, “Ok, I could fill this, but its just half of a benadryl. They’re right over there on the shelf, and you can just break them in half.”
Oh boy, was I pissed. Actually, I’m still pissed! Rar!
UPDATE: Judging by the comments, I probably should have mentioned that I specifically told the doctor that I’d tried taking Benedryl (because it made me sleepy) and that it had no effect on how many times I woke up per night.
Meds or sugar? [Chicago Sun-Times]
(Photo:Spidra Webster)
More From Consumerist
-
Doctors: Big Backyard Trampolines Are Dangerous, Really Just A Bad Idea In General
-
Pfizer To Sell Viagra Direct To Consumers Online, Not Through Spam Messages
-
Snack Food World Collapses In Upon Itself As Doritos Announces Doritos Locos Tacos Doritos
-
EA Admits Its Own Stupidity, Will Give Away Free Games To People Who Bought SimCity
-
"Cocktail Party Animal" Sues Bar For Serving Him Booze & Severing His Finger While Bouncing Him
@Hambriq: You’re right. But having once been subjected to medical battery, I get a little wound up about non-consent issues in general.
One of the reasons I like my current doctor and ob/gyn is that both explain in excruciating detail what’s going to happen next or why I need to do X or what all the side effects are going to be. If I had a doctor who just handed me a script without telling me why or what for or the full 411 (even after I asked), I honestly probably wouldn’t take it. I certainly wouldn’t go back to that doctor.
Honestly, knowing quite a few doctors personally, I’m going to pull the B.S. card. Perhaps 48% of crappy doctors prescribe placebos, but you shouldn’t go to a crappy doctor anyway (there are lists that show good doctors, use them). If a doctor does prescribe a placebo your pharmacist will point this out, as it is a looked down on practice, with no insentive from any party. No one makes money dishing out placebos.
If you want a sleep aid, take some Excedrin PM, should do the trick
Also, depending on what state you live in, you can’t buy anything with psuedoephedrine in it over-the-counter. Like here in Oregon for example, you need a Rx.
I think the more remarkable study would be how many “placebo” surgeries. I’m married to a medical student, and related to a few surgeons, and I frequently hear them discussing “open ‘em up and see what you can find” surgeries, performed when the patient keeps complaining about something that might be possible to cure surgically.
I would guess they’re most frequently done by Orthopedic surgeons for patients who complain about chronic back pain. Here’s the thing, almost everybody has chronic back pain. Unless you have something that’s obviously visible on an x-ray, (a cracked vertebrae, etc..) you’re probably better off getting a massage then trying to get an Orthopedic surgeon to open you up.
I know someone who takes antibiotics for the common cold even thought he knows he’s not supposed to because he said it makes him feel better. If a doctor won’t prescribe it then he just gets ‘em without a prescription. It’s the power of placebo at work.
@Eyebrows McGee: Cool, you teach an ethics class (or somesuch)? You would be the coolest person to have at a dinner party.
When I lived in AZ I knew people who would go to Mexico and buy antibiotics OTC. They’d pop them at the first sign of illness. Those people had it rough when they actually had something.
This area is a big double-edged sword – placebo to shut people up that won’t listen to logic, yet at the same time they are deceiving the patient.
My wife is an MD; her big drug problem is drug seekers, usually narcotics. People doctor shop to see who will prescribe the most or strongest. Sometimes they have elaborate setups with multiple doctors and pharmacies. She’s called insurance companies to have them only allow one pharmacy for scripts for abusers.
Wait’ll Hillary is in charge of our health making all of our decisions for us. She’ll fix everything!
–
[krcotter.home.mchsi.com]
I nip this issue in the bud before it happens, by not having health insurance. You’ll never get to me with your silly placebos, you quacks!!!
/kidding
I have told doctors to not waste their time prescribing z-pack s to me since they never work. I’d rather be miserable for a few extra days if they are going to go that route.
@Kevin Cotter: “Wait’ll Hillary is in charge of our health making all of our decisions for us. She’ll fix everything!”
What’s your solution?
It wasn’t respitory at all. It was all fever, body aches and chills. He was already on the upswing by the time he got to the Doctor.
Not to be a bitch but why the hell did your husband waste the doctor’s time then? “I have a sniffle, please give me something.” Want doctors to stop prescribing so much? Stop going to the freaking doctor for every hang nail.
My husband’s doctor gave him the Z-Pack for the flu. Seriously, he had the flu and the quack gave him antibiotics.
actually I take that back. I’ll be a bitch. You weren’t there, you don’t know what the doctor actually said, your husband wasted the doctor’s time by going to the doctor’s office when by your own admission your husband was “on the upswing” and now you call your husband’s doctor’s perfectly reasonable actions “quackery.” Screw you lady.
Super infection after influenza is a very real, very deadly condition. Maybe your doctor thought you’re just the whiny types to sue.
In medicine you can ALWAYS justify over treating. In a court of law when they start trotting out the pictures of how happy you were when he was alive there is no defense of “well he seemed fine.” And now you know why. Whiny bitches like yourself.
@AtOurGates: Re: placebo surgeries, yeah. A friend of mine (mid-30′s) was having terrible foot pain, to the point of being in a wheelchair for a while. She went from orthopedic surgeon to orthopedic surgeon and none of them could figure out the problem, but more than one had no problem suggesting they open her up just to see what they could find. They also had all kinds of scary ideas about breaking bones here and cutting tendons there to force her feet to heal healthier than they’d started.
Then she went to an osteopath, who put her on a regimen of what sounded to me like physical therapy. Now she’s all better, back on her feet, just had a kid. No scalpel needed. And yet, how many thousands could have been wasted if she hadn’t been willing to stick it out and had instead succumbed to placebo surgery?
@AtOurGates: I meant to add, my dad was in a similar position, except that he was lucky enough to have a doctor who didn’t try to sell him on surgery. He was having a lot of hip pain and walking was getting to be a problem, so he went and asked a highly-rated orthopedic surgeon about a hip replacement. The surgeon didn’t give him a yes-or-no answer, instead asking “What do YOU want to do?” In other words, if Dad demanded a hip replacement, the doc would do it, but he wasn’t going to push it on him.
When Dad balked at the idea of unnecessary surgery, the doctor prescribed physical therapy, plus some cortisone shots to get him started. Again, it worked like a charm, with no need for cutting.
@mattpr: I hope you don’t mind if I pay you with placebo money then.
@poodlepoodle:
Whatever. You weren’t there either, and you’re not married to my husband. So, you are welcome to stop with your assumptions about about how we live our lives.
People like you think “Screw you lady” and “whiny types/ whiny bitches like yourself” are perfectly appropriate to ways to discuss an issue.
@missdona:
This isn’t so much directed at you (or your husband, as the case may be), but to anyone reading this:
Does no one think to actually talk to their doctor at the time of the visit and ask why they are being given a particular course of treatment? I know for damn sure if I went to the doctor because I was sick and wasn’t sure if it was just the flu or something else and was told, “it’s the flu, here’s some antibiotics”, I would immediately ask if it’s just the flu (i.e. a virus), why am I being given antibiotics?
Maybe people are too afraid or intimidated or whatever by the fact that they don’t have a medical degree that they just accept whatever their doctor tells them. I learned from my mother to always question – side effects, generics, why X instead of Y, contradictions, etc. I don’t do it in a confrontational way, but because if I’m putting something in my body, I want to be fully informed.
I’ve never had a doctor refuse to take the time to answer my questions, but I would change doctors if they did. Seriously people, you owe it to yourself to make sure you’re informed about..well, yourself.
I really think most people who go to the doctors are really freaking out about their condition. Our culture (and I don’t mean just America) is one of caution…be careful to prevent X disease. Why are people all of a sudden drinking tea? I’ve been drinking tea since I was 4, I didn’t do it because I felt like I needed to prevent something. Sometimes, the sniffles is just the sniffles. And yet, if you know your body well, you know your limitations, and you know the limitations of the human body, you better get yourself checked out when you do encounter something entirely unusual.
The majority of ailments will “cure” themselves with time. A doctor’s job is to make you feel better while you are being cured. If handing you a placebo makes you feel better the doctor has done his job. Of course this is assuming the doctor has not “caused harm” by not treating the cause.
@Mauvaise: I used to teach health literacy to low-literacy adults, and this was actually a big problem for them, for the reasons you stated. They felt that they didn’t know enough to question the doctor, or they were too intimidated to ask questions when they didn’t understand.
Health literacy issues actually lead to billions of dollars in costs every year. I wish there were more programs like the one I worked for that taught people how to ask questions, get information, keep health info organized, etc (and how to feel comfortable when doing so).
@kimsama: It’s good that there are programs like that, but yes, I’d agree that there should be more, and I don’t think the problem is only with “low-literacy” people. My grandfather was a blindingly intelligent man and just accepted anything a doctor would tell him to do/take. My mother would be the one that would go to the doctor with him and question the doctors.
Granted one anecdote does not a trend make, but I would bet that he’s not the only literate person that just accepts whatever a doctor tells them unquestioningly because it’s a doctor that tells them.
I wish I could get a doctor to prescribe me M&Ms, boy howdy!
For about 10 years my mom has had persistent joint and muscle pain. Finally after being tired of hearing that “It’s nothing, it’s all in your head”, she went to a rheumatologist. He started giving her prednizone, a steroid. She’s been on it for two years now.
Finally her doctor retired, or died, either way he’s not practicing. My mom got shifted off to another doctor in a different practice. The new doctor is taking her off the prednizone, a 2 month procedure because of the high dose she was taking. All she needed, really, was some Alieve. And no. The prednizone didn’t work all that well.
What I can’t understand, is why the first doctor told her that she needed a potentially dangerous medicine, one that caused massive weight gain, when a simple pain releaver/anti-inflammatory would work.
I think it’s just another case of the pharma companies pressuring the doctors to prescribe something more expensive rather than something that works.
I like that House has prescribed mints before…I medicine were minty.
However, waking up every 45 minutes will make it harder for the ninja assassins to get to you.
@kimsama: Yep.
Technically I’m an “Adjunct Professor of Philosophy” but they brought me on to cover the professional ethics classes (lawyer background is good for that), so mostly I get to teach ethics, medical ethics, business ethics … it’s great fun.
(And I’m only fun at a dinner party if you like disagreements with your salad.
)
@Mauvaise: “My grandfather was a blindingly intelligent man and just accepted anything a doctor would tell him to do/take.”
I think a lot of people just don’t like to ask questions generally, afraid to appear ignorant or afraid to waste someone’s time. Luckily for me and my socially-inappropriate level of curiosity, I’ve discovered most people are absolutely DELIGHTED to get to talk about themselves, or their jobs, or their hobbies.
The big problem here is both the Doctor and the patient think the problem can be fixed by taking a pill. How about trying to get at the root of the problem and see what is causing you to wake up every 45 minutes in the first place? I would start with examining diet and exercise (crazy thought I know). It could be something more complicated, but a deficiency in some sort of medication is not what caused the ailment, so why would you think it will provide the solution? You might get relief by taking a pill, but what happens when you start waking up again? Take a stronger medication? Why not just fix the original problem so you don’t have to take any pills??? I’m all about advancements in medical technology, but I think we are taking a step backwards with our over reliance on medications.
yes, benadryl is technically not a placebo.
But when you go to the doctor expecting a Valium or Klonopin and he gives you benadryl it may as well be a placebo.
Same with pain meds. I go to the doctor with extreme back pain, no I do not fucking want your 800mg ibuprofens. I want oxy’s or sublingual morphine tabs! I wouldn’t have gone to the damn doctor if ibuprofen would cure my pain!
As a doctor, I can offer a few comments about this. It is unethical for us to prescribe a placebo pill in such a manner as to “trick” patients into thinking they are taking a legitamate medication; modern medicine is based upon the “informed consent” model (with a few exceptions, primarily involving acute psychiatric emergencies) in which patients must be informed of the suspected condition/disease, prognosis, treatment options, and likely outcome if recommended treatment is declined-this precludes placebo use in an “under-handed” manner. One way we DO attempt to exploit the “placebo effect” is nicely illustrated by the insomnia treatment. The patient complained of insomnia and the doctor (realizing that almost all cases of insomnia are secondary to some other problem) prescribed conservative treatment; the goal was to give this patient some immediate relief while minimizing the risk of adverse effects. Low-dose Benadryl accomplishes this: the “real” effect is mild sedation physiologically/pharmacologically insufficient alone to maintain sleep, but when augmented by the patient’s expectation of improved symptoms (due to a positive, hopeful attitude toward the treatment) the desired effect is achieved. I could cite many examples of similar patient approaches working well for a variety of complaints (headaches are also very responsive to placebo effects). IMO, this is a doctor that understands the “art” of Medicine as well as the concept of “first, do no harm” and formulates creative solutions for patients (we are careful to say that we “practice” Medicine)-exactly the type of doc I would refer my wife or mother to. The motivation is simply to help people feel better while minimizing the probability of adverse effects. Many sleep medications have significant risks of adverse effects: very dangerous in overdose (with some of the older drugs, simply taking two or three instead of one pill could lead to ICU hospitalization), very dangerous when combined with other sedating drugs and especially alcohol (as many dead Rock stars know), significant risk with some agents for bizarre and potentially dangerous behavors such as sleepwalking, and many agents have significant risk of dependence. The doctor prescribed Benadryl because it does not really have any of these problems to a significant degree; if something “stronger” had been prescribed and an adverse event occurred, the doctor would be the first blamed (and sued), reagrdless of whether or not the patient was irresponsible or noncompliant with the instructions for use. This scenario often leads us toward more conservative prescribing styles, and the majority of the time this works just as well as prescribing the “newest and strongest” (and most expensive).
@asscore: Especially if the prescribed dose is half of an OTC Benadryl tablet. Who even does that?
And if I want 800mg of ibuprofen, I can take four Advil.
It’s not so much that Advils and Benadryl are totally useless, it’s that if I’m at the doctor’s office, I’ve probably tried all of the non-prescription remedies. I’m not there to get the same damn thing I could buy OTC at Walgreen’s.
People like you think “Screw you lady” and “whiny types/ whiny bitches like yourself” are perfectly appropriate to ways to discuss an issue.
Typical “I can dish it out but can’t take it behavior.” You called a professional a quack and were told “no that isn’t quackery.” Now you’re whining about it.
Yea, the shoe fits.
People you’re in charge of your own heath, you can’t tell a doctor part of the story and expect he/she is going to magically guess what is wrong with you. Your doctor is not House. House does not actually exist he is a TV character and he gets to spend all day on one person, even your “quack” doctors could figure out all your ailments given a day to work you up.
@sir_eccles: Thanks for pointing that out–I get ragers and have had them for a couple of weeks in the past before going to see the doc hoping they would get better. I have tried two out of the three suggestions (ibprofin, Neti Pot) and the saline almost seems to make it worse. The longer course of antibiotics has proved to be more effective than a z-pack for me in completely getting rid of it.
@asscore:
Drug seeking behavior anyone?
I kid, I kid.
@poodlepoodle: I will not indulge your name-calling.
I can dish it with the best of them, but if you are going to resort to language like “Screw you lady,” I’m not interested in what you have to say.
So…. I could be WASTING money on placebos????? WTF???
How about doctors just grow a pair, assert their medical authority & say something like “I am the doctor, I dont think you need (insert drug of choice)…. of course you can always get a second opinion.”
Its bad enought that I have to blow money/time on a 30 minute wait & then a 5 minute “look-see” session with a doctor but to waste even MORE money on medicine that has no medicinal effect?
@tinmanx: You can thank him for MRSA. Seriously. You need to get him to stop. Even if it takes turning him in.
GOOD. if it keeps them from over-prescribing antibiotics. some people get sick and just COMPLETELY demand a prescription. it’s in everyone’s best interest not to have antibiotic-resistant super bacteria roaming around.
i am prone to getting at least two sinus infections a year. i have had so many of them in the past few years, i know when i have one opposed to the common cold. i am also allergic to basically all your common antibiotics (sulfas and cillins, all the cheap stuff!) and zpacks are what has worked the best for me.
the week of my wedding, i came down with one hell of a sinus infection, complete with a pretty good fever and everything. i had a doctor argue with me, tell me she was pretty sure i only had a cold, but she was going to prescribe me antibiotics anyway. her reasoning being “you’re getting married on friday, i can’t have you be potentially miserable. but i’m sure time will get you better as opposed to the meds”. then she asked me what i normally took and what worked. i told her the zpack. she goes and prescribes me something completely different, that had nasty side effects (heartburn and a metallic taste in your mouth), and cost about five times more than a zpack, and that was with my insurance.
as much as i hated to say “i told you so”, within 24 hours of being on the antibiotics, i was doing much better, but i unfortunately got stuck with both of the aforementioned side effects. when most brides are wanting to pop zanax on their wedding day, i was wanting to eat an entire container of rolaids, but i couldn’t, due to drug interactions with the antibiotic. i took the antibiotic, only because i know my body and i know how it acts when i have a cold versus a sinus infection.
sometimes, i swear doctors are so full of themselves, they forget that sometimes their patient, who knows their body better than anyone else, is sometimes their best diagnostic tool.
@Skiffer:
3rd year medical student chiming in.
Antibiotics work in many different ways, but in their simplest form, they work by inhibiting bacterial replication. They don’t blindly “attack” random cells, they stop bacteria from reproducing. Most bacteria have crucial proteins/enzymes that are used during replication (and that are different from anything in your body), and antibiotics basically bind to and inhibit them. While the bacteria can’t reproduce, your own body’s immune system is busy pumping out white blood cells to fight off what bacteria is left. Eventually, your body wins out (most of the time).
Back on topic…what I think a lot of people don’t realize is that doctors run a business. If your patients aren’t happy, they won’t come back (as many above have attested). And while it’s not the main factor why most doctors practice, it is a reality in today’s world. When a crazy mom comes in with a sick kid who’s got nothing more than a simple viral infection but is demanding antibiotics because she thinks her kid has necrotizing fasciitis after reading WebMD for 3.5 minutes, what is the doctor going to do? Give antibiotics, waste 15 minutes trying to explain to a stubborn mom that this will go away on its own, waste another 15 minutes trying to explain to a now even more stubborn mom that overuse of antibiotics has led to drug-resistant infections like MRSA, or risk losing the entire family’s business because her neighbor’s doctor gave her neighbor’s kid antibiotics when he had a cold.
Hey, I go to the doctors with some issues, NOT expecting them to give me anything. In fact, I’m happier when they don’t. Reason? Aside from being on so many meds at the moment I would rather NOT be on, I don’t want to be drugging myself unless absolute necessary.
I’m even this way with pain killers like tylanol. And in fact, I’ve had doctors who said outright they could do nothing for me.
For example when I went in with an issues of sleeping over 20 hours a day, and unable to stay awake. I knew SOMETHING was wrong. No it wasn’t an issue of getting enough sleep. It was an issue of me not being able to stay awake. My main reason for going was to get a note for work, as I knew if I waited a week, I would get over it on my own.
Doctor actually agreed that she thought it was a viral infection, and that there was nothing she could do. Then told me about the viral issue and not being able to give me anything. I was happy, I got my note for work WITH orders to stay home till it worked itself out, and I didn’t need to add another drug to my regiment at the time.
At the same time, there are issues I admit I don’t even bring up with a doctor. Supposedly they gave me the strongest medication for it, and it did nothing, but make me feel worse. (Admittedly this doctor was a total idiot I found out latter, but I digress)
@spunky_redhead15:
STOP
OVERMEDICATING
WITH
ANTIBIOTICS
NOW
You think you have sinus problems? Wait a few more years until you’ve generated some new hideous disease using your amazing medical skills, one that CAN’T be treated with ANYTHING. You’ll then be sitting around complaining about how the doctors overmedicated you and didn’t give you anything different.
Then, of course, the homeopaths will use your story as anecdotal evidence of the “evils” of medicine.
This isn’t even a story. 98% of people have invented an illness to call sick into work. Apparently half of them go get treated for it.
I guess I’m lucky. I have medical insurance and go to the Doctor regularly, yet I have NO IDEA what a z-pack is. It’s great to be from the end of the gene-pool that doesn’t get sick but once every 3-4 years.
@ptrix: I’m not 100% certain about these newer Antibiotics, but older ones like Penicillin target cell walls of a cell. Since Human beings are of the animal variety of life-forms. None of our cells have cell walls, only membranes. Bacteria however do have cell walls. Which is why most antibiotics have side-effects in your GI tract as they not only kill the infection, but the good bacteria that live in your gut.
You just can’t please everyone. If people get prescriptions they bitch about being over medicated. If they don’t, they feel they are not getting treated.
It never ends.
The placebo effect is well researched and documented. If I can treat your pain with a non harmful placebo pill that has no known side effects (aside from placebo caused AEs) then isn’t it to your benefit, and then haven’t I fulfilled my oath as an MD???
The problem is, drug companies are allowed to advertise to lay people, which results in said lay people coming into a professional’s office and requesting drugs by name, based on what they read in some stupid ad in Vanity Fair last week. Drugs should not be advertised to the lay public (they prevented cigs from being advertised on the TV, (kinda), so I’m sure they could make a ruling on this as well.)
Thanks, all you doctors out there who do this! You are only helping Big PharmA snag even higher profits and, at the same time, helping to keep drug costs and health care costs at all-time record high levels in the US. We, who cannot afford legitimate health care, applaud your work!!!
@parnote:
…That doesn’t even make sense. Wouldn’t prescribing a placebo keep profits OUT of “Big Pharma”‘s hands?
I guess logic has no place in the New World Order.