I’m composing this email with rather mixed emotions. I am, on the one hand almost lightheaded with relief. I am, on the other hand so incredibly angry I’m almost sick. Let me explain.Just before Christmas, my Sony Vaio seemed to be having problems charging. I had run the battery down completely the day before, having forgotten my a/c adapter. After suddenly coming out of hibernation in the middle of the night and powering down, it wouldn’t stay on for more than 5 minutes before suddenly shutting completely off (eventually it wouldn’t stay on for more than 15 seconds). After technical support failed to diagnose the problem over the phone, they suggested I send it to San Diego to be serviced.
The laptop’s only 9 months old, and still under warranty, so I thought nothing of it. But being just before Christmas, and just a little busy, I kept putting off sending it. I also left it plugged in just to see if some good might come of it. Thank God for both. The morning I planned to go down to FedEx, I tried turning the computer on, just for grins, and to my surprise, it worked. Almost. Everything was working beautifully except that even plugged in, the computer was continuously losing it’s charge.
A quick experiment proved that the computer would charge itself after it was turned off, but couldn’t charge and would steadily lose power when turned on (as if it was only running on battery.) Hurray! Perhaps it wasn’t the disaster it appeared to be. Excited, I called the Sony Technical support line again, telling them that it looked like it might just be a battery that wouldn’t charge properly, or something that simple. Every thing’s working but that I told them, could they maybe just send me a new battery? They couldn’t. I needed to ship the computer so they could run a full diagnostic. Fine.
They were paying for FedEx overnight to and from, and just in case the problem was something more complicated, it seemed like the best option. So I sent it.
A few days later, when I logged on their site to check on my work order, I was met with a message that an estimate was ready for my repair. Estimate? My computer was under warranty. I called them immediately and was told that the cause of my trouble was liquid damage.
Impossible I told him. He transferred me to a technician. Robert (the technician) told me they had found a ‘pink liquid’ all over the interior of the laptop. I was careful with my laptop. I hadn’t spilled on it, much less doused it with pink liquid. I was furious and instantly suspicious. After a lot of protesting about that, I asked what would it cost to repair?
‘We consider it uneconomical to repair,’ dear Robert answered.
‘Excuse me,’ I replied. ‘How is that possible? When I sent to computer to you the only problem with that it wouldn’t charge!’ Ma’am, he replied, it has liquid damage and would cost more than the computer originally cost to repair.
How is that possible? (I’ll admit I’m beginning to raise my voice at this point.) I ask, ‘when the only thing not working is the charge?’
‘We’re sorry, after market parts cost more than when it was built’. So how much are we talking here? (I’m shaking with rage at this point).
‘$2414.19′ he replied. (It’s possible I passed out at this point). I believe I said ‘I beg your pardon?’
He offered no solution, no alternative. Just, ‘I’m sorry, there’s nothing we can do, it’s ruined.’
What the hell did they expect me to do? Ask them to transfer me to the sales department so could slap down more money for their outstanding product and top notch service ?
‘Send it back to me then’ was the only thing I could say. At least I knew it would work for short periods of time. I’d just have to type really fast. Faced with a $2400 bill or the cost of another computer, I didn’t have much choice. The laptop came back 2 days later, complete with a list of the parts that were damaged by liquid and had to be replaced. Out of curiosity, I stared googling the various part numbers. They included the motherboard, CPU, another, yet unidentified Intel part, and my keyboard.
So just for fun, I plugged it in again, left if for an hour just to be sure, and turned it on. And it worked. Perfectly. Except for the one thing I sent it off for. It still wasn’t charging when it was plugged in. But wait a minute. According to Sony, my motherboard and CPU needed to be replaced. Now I don’t know much about computers, but I do know they don’t generally work without a functioning motherboard and CPU. And yet mine was working like a charm, minus the battery trouble. And my keyboard was just fine too (I’ve typed this entire email on it, so I really have to question whether it needs to be replaced.)
And last night, I left it to charge again and this time when I turned it on, everything was fine. No problems with the battery, with it charging. Nothing. I don’t know what’s been going on for the last 2 1/2 weeks but everything works perfectly. I’m ecstatic, almost in a state of shock. I realize it’s peanuts compared to some of your readers messes with houses, cars and credit card companies, but with my income, paying for even a cheap computer at the moment would be impossible. But then a scary thought hit me. What if I hadn’t, by chance, tried turning it on one last time before I sent it to them. What if I hadn’t known it was working when that technician told me it was a complete loss, thanks to a still mysterious pink liquid?
What if out of desperation or a moment”s insanity I had told them to fix it anyway and gave them $2400 for absolutely nothing (not even a malfunctioning battery) . Was this some kind of sick joke? Was Sony so dishonest they were trying to screw the cost of another computer out of me? Could any technician be so incompetent they didn’t even bother trying to push the power button. I’m reluctant to look a gift horse in the mouth, but I can’t shake a very sickening thought. What if I had believed them? I’m still struggling to put into words how I’m feeling both complete relief and total outrage. It’s like I took a new car that wouldn’t start into a dealership, was told the engine was shot and the car was worthless, only to discover it just needed a jump start. I feel like an email to a the executive in charge of the Sony Computer Division is in order. I just can’t find any contact info for anything but the general help line. I don’t suppose you might be able to help?
Sincerely ,
(And composed and sent entirely from my recently diagnosed complete loss of a laptop)Rosemary
We don’t really know anything about repairing computers, but it does seem sort of hard to believe that your computer works perfectly fine except for the small detail of having to be completely replaced. Maybe there was some sort of mix up?
Does anyone have any contact information for Sony’s computer division that they’d like to share with Rosemary so she can unleash the EECB?
(Photo:Getty)
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Gremlins. Definitely gremlins.
@charred:
Maybe it stopped working because the smoke escaped? And then condensed into a pink liquid?
Lenovo FTW
I would have definitely demanded pictures at this point.
Sony does not authorize any companies to repair computers, they all go back to a Sony facility to be addressed, whether you go to a retailer or ship it directly.
I would also remove the keyboard to see if this liquid is really there; laptop computers don’t have a magical “Warranty Voided” alarm and unless an incompetent tech breaks something while the system is apart, Sony has no way of knowing what’s going on.
Also, verify that the PC you got back has the same serial number as listed on the package/receipt from when you purchased the computer as well as on the manifest going both to and from the repair center.
For what it’s worth, with laptops, everything is integrated into the motherboard. The CPU isn’t socketed, it’s soldered directly onboard. If the adapter plug breaks off, for instance, you most likely have to replace the entire board.
Now, if they’re claiming liquid damage, then you have a host of other issues. Who knows for sure if the hard drive still has any sort of lifespan, so you’d most likely need that replaced. Same with the circuitry for the screen. It gets messy.
“Liquid damage” is pretty much synonymous with “you’re fucked.”
I have worked on (repaired) dozens of laptops. Many had liquid damage, and the users NEVER EVER EVER admit that they ever spilled anything in it. Same with clearly dropped machines. I’m not calling the OP a liar, because I wouldn’t be surprised if some repair departments work under the same health insurance policy of “deny 30% of claims and hope they don’t appeal,” and liquid damage is probably the easiest thing to say, since any user would be hard-pressed to investigate this.
On the other hand, I have spilled beer into my Powerbook TWICE, and it is still running strong. In fact, the second time I spilled beer into it, it cleared up the sticky trackpad button caused by the first spillage.
So maybe you should find some pink liquid and pour it in?
@busydoingnothing:
Wow, someone to actually backup my statements. It seems that most people simply don’t understand how a laptop is constructed. I’ll say that not ALL of them have the CPU soldered on, but many do.
Pylon83 is right, some parts have to be replaced in a big chunk, (e.g. CPU is soldered into the motherboard). But that would be ONE part number.
Sony obviously screwed up. Big time. They make TVs. NOT computers. Not digital cameras. CamCorders, ok… I’m not a big Sony fan…
Anyway, as for a battery not charging while the computer is on is because the driver controlling the battery/power interface is screwed up and can’t determine which power source the computer was on.
The APPROPRIATE experiment to have tried is removing the battery and powering the computer on with only AC power. That may have “re-taught” the driver how to detect AC power. Once on, put the battery in and see if it maintains AC power state.
@wesrubix:
” But that would be ONE part number”
Not necessarily. While there would be one FINAL part number, each and every piece on that board has a P/N. I used to work for a major electronics manufacturer, and if you look at the Bill of Materials for a particular p/n, you’ll notice each and every capacitor has a p/n. Depending on how the station has this stuff documented, I don’t think it is completely impossible that a full list of all the separate p/n’s was sent out.
My main point in all of my posts is that there are a lot of back-seat technicians on here who are making “diagnosis” without knowing ALL of the facts, or even the particular model of laptop. The simple fact is one can’t take the OP’s story at face value. There are a number of holes, and for us to simply ignore those and damn the corporation would be irresponsible.
Christ, there are a lot of techno-idiots on here.
It’s against the law to deny warranty for the simple act of opening a computer. If you break something, the warranty is void on that thing.
A couple of thoughts from Sunny Florida..
I have been doing PC service for years and, like others have said, have seen tons of laptops full of liquid and owners who have no idea how it could have gotten there. Usually those laptops smell a lot like a microbrewery.
I haven’t taken one of this particular laptop apart but on many the keyboard comes off fairly easily and you can see the motherboard fro there. I would have an independant shop pull the keyboard and look for pink goo. There aren’t any seals on that part normally. If there are they have already been broken by the Sony tech.
I haven’t seen a processor soldered to a motherboard in years. They are all some sort of socket and clamping device arrangement now. I also think the Sony tech just quoted everything so it wouldn’t be a come back.
Steve B.
@kiloman: Yes
@swalve:
I didn’t want to bother addressing the Magnuson-Moss warranty act, because I assumed it would be lost on most of the commenters on here. Sony can seal everything and put the little tear-proof stickers all over it if they want to, but unless they can prove that your act of opening up the case caused, or aggravated, the problem, they can’t deny service.
Meh, the guy you talked to probably wasn’t even the tech who wrote “pink liquid” on the form. He probably looked at the record, said “liquid damage” and thats that. They told you to replace everything becasue if anything has liquid damage it all needs to be replaced to get the warranty back in tact.
as far as the problem, it sounds like a software issue. As far as the pink liquid…it was probably there.
If they don’t fix it 100% on a repair, then you can continually send it back and forth saying you are having further problems.
It saves the company a LOT of money not having to pay shipping and labour and parts costs many times over by repairing anything doused in the “liquid” (Pepto?) the first time, even if the issue at hand is “just the battery.”
However, if your unit is draining power that fast, it makes sense that something is messing with the circuitry on your motherboard causing voltage to continually flow through it.
@pylon83: If that were true, then
“And last night, I left it to charge again and this time when I turned it on, everything was fine. No problems with the battery, with it charging. Nothing. I don’t know what’s been going on for the last 2 1/2 weeks but everything works perfectly.”
Wouldn’t be the case. Apparently, out to screw the customer was the most likely here.
Not a problem with Sony, but a friend has an HP laptop with a similar problem (in that he has a malfunctioning charger (The jack that plugs into his laptop is incredibly loose and won’t seat properly, thus not allowing the computer to charge/draw power from it)). Not only won’t they send him a new charger (this part at least makes sense), but they require him to send his entire laptop in (Huh?) and get this: They MUST (according to them) reformat it.
..to fix a faulty battery charger, the laptop must be formatted.
Explain that one.
(I gave him HP’s executive care line since he’d gotten nowhere after 5 calls)
WTF are you people doing buying ANYTHING from SONY after their DRM fiasco?
Similar problem was had by a writer for autoweek, she even devoted her whole column to the problem she had with sony. Since reading that, I really dont consider them.
This actually does seem like a question of what is and is not covered under warranty (a legal right) as compared to good customer service (avoiding the assertion of rights).
I usually try to understand my legal rights in case niceness breaks down.
First, note the general warranty that probably applies (assuming that it is standardized) [www.docs.sony.com] . Note that the state the consumer is in affects their rights and that the Magnuson-Moss Act is not really the biggest protection for consumer rights as compared to the state. So look at the warranty, the state law, and the federal law to determine if Sony is breaching their warranties.
For example state law in IL is governed by:
# Illinois Commercial Code 810 ILCS 5/2-312 through 5/2-318:
* Warranty of Title §2-312
* Express Warranties §2-313
* Implied Warranty of Merchantability §2-314
* Implied Warranty of Fitness for Particular Purpose §2-315
* Exclusion or Modification of Warranties §2-316
* Cumulation and Conflict of Warranties §2-317
* Third Party Beneficiaries of Warranties §2-318
A decent guides to understanding the Magnuson-Moss Act is [www.ftc.gov]
Moreover besides customer support and doing the techniques described in this site, there is also contacting the attorney general of your state for example – [www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov]
After going through the complex task of what the rights and duties Sony has to the consumer (since the warranty is modified by law), then it is much easier to go through the facts.
If we assume that the consumer is totally right there may be an ethical obligation, however there may not be a legal one. Similarly if we assume that all the facts are in Sony’s favor, then there still may be a legal right by the consumer.
Obviously, the consumer has choices like – (1) doing nothing,(2) absorbing the cost of repair, (3) absorbing and being compensated through some action such as small claims court, (4) seek compensation at the cost of time and money (like litigation) then fix the problem, or (5) seek a fix to the “breach contract” from the corporation.
I am curious what is the consumers priority – I assume fixing the computer.
@glitterati: “If you’re not with us, you’re against us.” Why would having a differing POV qualify pylon as an anti-consumer? Maybe he’s just seen the other side. I, too, work for a big (blue and yellow) box and see my share of customers who do not show an ounce of personal accountability.
True story from yesterday, Toshiba laptop:
-I’m having problems with my laptop and want to know what all my warranty covers
- OK, Sir, let me take a look at your receipt and see what’s covered. What seems to be the problem?
- It just doesn’t work
- I’m sorry to hear that. Well, it appears that your warranty was purchased two years ago. It covers damage from heat, dust and humidity, power surges, and normal wear and tear. It also covers the battery.
- What if that’s not the problem?
-Well, do you know what the problem might be?
- What if it’s like, an accident?
- I’m afraid we wouldn’t cover that, let me take a look
(going back to take a better look at the sku he actually paid for, I find out he shelled out for accidental damage protection, hoorah!)
- Well, Sir, good news, you paid for accidental damage coverage, so just bring your computer in and we’ll take care of you.
- Oh, ok, what if my cat spilled beer on it by accident?
- Well, that would count as an accident. Go ahead and bring it in.
Now, why did the customer not come out with the truth? Why do we fund roaches and a dead mouse in a tower and the customer’s like, “I dunno how that could have gotten there”?
I have gone to bat for dozens of customers when I thought our policies were unfair, and maybe this customer is getting a raw deal. But, when you’ve seen the lengths that people will go to to cheat stores out of goods and services, you lose some faith in humanity. People lie to get what they want.
What bothers me is the all-out hate of corporations, as if there were no redeeming qualities, as if there are perfect corporations out there. Assuming many of Consumerist’s readers are not self-employed, unemployed, or work in charity, where do you people work and how do you get paid? I don’t have the pleasure of dealing with non-profit banks, cable companies, etc. They are out there to turn a profit… Shocking! Should they do it at the expense of ethics and morals? Absolutely not. But being outraged at a company trying to be profitable is ridiculous.
I am fighting with Apple on the same issue. They insist it is liquid damage-hence the name. But if it is, it came from inside the computer and Apple is still liable. I’m not the first that Apple has done this to (there are others including the sledgehammer macbook guy).
This may be MO for laptop warranty repair. Not sure.