Law suit time.

That's awesome. Does anyone know of any good sources to gather this type of information at a local level? I don't personally have any need of it now, but I would like to already be informed if this type of issue ever comes up.

debt collectors are teh scum

I actually got a call from a collections agency today for someone with the same last name and similar first name to me. The guy was such a jerk, I really enjoyed being mean to him. Before I realized it was a mistake I explained to him that I've NEVER had any outstanding debt and he told me not to bother lying to him, and he could call the police, etc. I feel bad for anyone who really is in collections who has to deal with shenanigans like that.

In this thread, we glorify deadbeats who don't pay their debts.

Sure, the debt collectors are violating some rights, but in all honesty, debt is debt.

Is there more of a story behind this? Why did he not pay in the first place? I won't pretend I have a large knowledge in debt collection or debt itself (I avoid it like the plague), but it seems to me that both parties were in the wrong on this one.

How can someone just NOT pay debt and expect to get away with it?

Okay, please tell me how this guy who made the recording is not an ass*ole?
Sure sounds like he's using some legal runaround to get out of a debt to me.
And all his faxes and letters, etc? I'm sure he's getting some cheap thrill out of annoying an annoying person, but he even admits it's his account and he's jut not going to pay it.
Nice bit of condescension, buddy.

That was funny. What's funnier is that this is another big area for lawyers to make big money, no matter who loses.

@Firestarsolo-

Why you avoidin' me, pal?
;)

@firestarsolo: @Plague: I was REALLY hoping this guy would at least say that he doesn't owe the money but he makes it pretty clear that he does. She may be making threats but if he'd just pay his bills he'd have never heard from her in the first place.

@firestarsolo: Whether or not he paid the debt is wholly irrelevant. Debt Collectors are not above the law and do not have a reason to abuse people. (And by the way, there are a multitude of different reasons why people don't or can't pay their debt, ranging from laziness to financial hardship).

He was asking for verification of the debt, which they were unwilling to provide. What's so hard about asking debt collectors to comply with the law?

@PLAGUE -

I lol'd. Anyhow, if it kind of sounding like I was defending the debt collectors, it's because I was, in principle... I have no patience or sympathy for those who are indebted and are unable to repay. Where I realize that scare tactics are taboo, what else would get this guy to do what is supposed to be done anyhow?

I might be missing something here.

I wonder how much of the laws the phone reps are told in training, or if they're just told, "These people absolutely have to pay, we don't have to give them any verification, and we can totally use threats."

The biggest problem is that they do not seem to be a legal debt collection agency. They are making a massive felony right there.

Thank you for finally posting a movie with subtitles. That's, what, a 1% success rate at helping out those of us who can't hear so well?

@firestarsolo: *sigh* This isn't about whether or not the guy was "right" to be in debt in the first place. This is about CRIMINAL abuse of other people for profit. This is about illegal conduct. This is about violation of other peoples' rights.

Can we get off the debt high horse, JUST ONCE, when discussing debt collector abuses?

@firestarsolo: Yes. You are. That even debtors have rights. So you're saying you have no sympathy for those who are the victims of crimes?

@meeroom: Hee hee. "Sure. Call them. I'm sure they'll love to hear how you wasted their time and tied them up when other lives could have been in danger, just because you felt like calling up an innocent party and harassing them."

It's a crime to make a false police report.

@BURAN:

The best part about it is that there would be no debt collectors if people were diligent and didn't get into debt in the first place.

Now where to place the blame?

@firestarsolo: Because all people have unlimited financial security. Classic case is a person getting into debt for medical reasons. Sucks to be those people who got sick. What were they thinking! Shame on them for getting sick and having to go into debt to pay for a medical procedure.

Sure, the debt collectors are violating some rights, but in all honesty, debt is debt.

@firestarsolo: Debt is debt but in all honestly the collectors are breaking the law here.

How hard is it to send proof he still owes the money?

@hypnotik_jello:

So you've nailed one example where I'm wrong. Do I need to list ones where I'm right? I won't, but it seems to me that the medical example is a bit extreme. I don't have proof or numbers, but from what I've read and from what's been in the news (read: sub-prime lending), the majority of debt is from irresponsibly handling your money. . .

Verification is not just about finding out whether the consumer owes the debt.

It is just as important to find whether the debt collector actually owns the right to collect the debt. Most have no proof, and therefore no guarantee that if the consumer pays, he or she will actually be paying off the debt.

Now where to place the blame?

@firestarsolo: The debt collector took it upon herself to violate the FDCPA. That's all on her and the company she works for.

@Rectilinear Propagation: I stand by what I said before, the debt collector wouldn't have to do this if the debt was never accumulated. I understand that it's a roundabout way of thinking, and rather idealist, but it's what sounds right to me.

My wife had a legitimate Capital One account. It was paid in full and closed. A full eight years later we began receiving notices that she owes $1500+. The debt was bought by a junk debt buyer (JDB) out of North Carolina. They could provide no verification of the debt other than an amount and that it was from Capital One. The fact is even if she had owed a legitimate debt, it would have gone to the JDB not Capital One. What many JDBs hope for is people get freaked out and pay something they don't owe.

I had to pay a $20 late fee on a video from a video store long gone out of business to close on my house. Yeah I should have returned that video on time 12 years ago, but did my late fee put the store out of business? Will, the owner get a check in the mail for $20?

No.

Wow. Both sides are in the wrong there, but that guy started it.

@firestarsolo: We'll have to agree to disagree then because I fail to see how it's necessary to break the law to do your job (assuming that your job is legal in the first place).

@klondikedog: If that happened to me, I'd find some way to sue the JDB and get the money from them. I'm sure this has happened in the past?

I hate debt collectors as much as the next person, but threads like this (in which the person legitimately owed a debt at some point) are a poor way to illustrate the scumminess of collectors. The collector's actions were illegal, but the "victim" brought it on himself (technically, it is illegal to bail on a legitimate debt).

I would have been 500% more moved by this video if the person truly hadn't defaulted, or if the person paid the debt only to be continually harassed by collectors.

The person in the video could have handled this with much more maturity and probably reached a much more effective conclusion by making a simple statement that incorporates some aspects of the FDCPA:

"Kim--I understand that it is your job to collect this debt from me, and I understand that you feel you have a legitimate right to collect this debt; however, it is long past the statute of limitations, and I don't believe that your company is licensed in my state, and so I am going to refuse to pay your company. If you believe that the debt is still active and that you have a legitimate right to the money, then we will have to continue this process in the courts. Please consider this your final notice about this, and do not contact me again."

@firestarsolo: And you've never, ever had something unexpected happen to you, like break something when you don't have insurance for whatever reason? That's why they're called "accidents".

Stop sneering for just a minute, willya? Consider that scenario, and think of possible variations upon it that explain how even the best and most responsible of us can end up in debt and unable to repay.

Like, getting diagnosed with cancer and having your insurance drop you, so you wind up in a deep hole.

It's debt or DIE.

Think about that for a second.

@Rectilinear Propagation: Apologies I'm not getting my point across, I am against the fact that the collector is breaking the law, and therefore needs to be held liable.

But I must stress that in my opinion, not paying your debt may not be illegal but it's just as bad as breaking the law.

@schwnj: And they'll call you back within 5 minutes if the last "scummy debt collector" story is any example ... that's a great statement, but if you really think that will solve the problem then there's some parallel universe out there where debt collection firms are all actually honorable.

Yeah, I wish.

@firestarsolo:

Please note, this debt, if at all legitimate, is way beyond the statute of limitations...According to my records, the account was opened March 24, 1998, last payment May 10, 1999 and charged off on December 20, 1999 for $658.

@Buran: We'll avoid topics on life or death for now, I don't think you care to hear my views on it.

Okay, so not every case is clean-cut. But the main issue here is that there was a debt that was clearly left unpaid, and I'm venturing a guess here, intentionally.

If what you propose were to happen to me, I would not sit around after the fact (though I can't prove that's what our victim is doing), I'd try to pay it off. If it weren't possible, well, I wouldn't be able to afford a phone service for the collection agency to call me, would I?

Hah. I don't know why I'm all worked up over this. Just bored at work, I guess. Good arguing though!

@Rectilinear-

Yet somehow he didn't bother to say that in any of his recordings!

Seems to me he was just enjoying the battle here, no matter how wrong the actions were of the collector.

"Pay your bills!" Is a statement that just makes my blood boil! I have gone through economic hardships and have had collection agents call and tell me to get a job and pay your bills and you wouldn't be in this mess.

After reading an entire forum on ABC's 20/20 expose on the practices of debt collectors. I have come to a few conclusions.

1. First I think collection agents are first brainwashed to believe this great lie that everybody that has debt just doesn't WANT to pay it.

2. Collection agents have no clue as to the downward spiral of our economy.

3. Many people want to pay off their debts but creditors are unwilling to settle. (I have one agency that refuses my 50$ a month because they want a lump sum up front. I figure something is better than nothing, but oh well, they get nothing until they take what I can afford)

4. Debt collectors have to justify what they do so they can sleep at night. I'll admit it must be a hard job.

5. People fall upon hardships and often have to make tough decisions. Car, insurance, food and utilities come first.

6. Even legite debt colletors are sneaky. I used to have a guy call from a major credit card company call all the time and was like , "Hey man what's up? Is Keith home?" I'd reply "Who's this?" He'd reply "A friend." Umm... no fooling me.. I have caller Id. No company name, no "hi this is so and so from..." when asked who this was, he would reply "It's al'right, I'll just catch him on his cell." Calling me Keith was the first tip off. No freinds of mine who know me at all calls me by by full name.

7. Companys make unreasonable arrangements. "Ok, we can put you on a payment plan, but first you need to put down $500 dollars." In response... "I'd like to pay, but I don't have the 500$. I can do $50 a month" This is replied with "Well, without the 500$ down first, we can't process your account for a payment plan"

8. The other thing that debt collectors say that makes my blood boil. "Just ask a friend or a family member!" You don't think that will lead to problems down the road?" Spread the debt!

9. "Just pay your bills!" OK. I'm sitting here with my budget before me. My bills, not even including debts isn't covered by my income. Rent, car loan, heating oil, food, and weekly gas. I've cut back on as much as I can, sold off as much as I can, drained my savings, drained my retirement fund just to keep my car on the road so I can get to work in an attempt to pay my bills, and then if I'm lucky with what I have left over I try to pay my debts. So the next time somebody says, "just pay your bills." I don't live beyond my means and constantly try to better my life through carreer advancement and education.

All I can say is to those who say "Pay your bills" continue to tell yourself that people don't want to pay their bills, so you can sleep at night and help the big company you work for get rich, while you make your 12$ an hour.

@Rectilinear Propagation: So if this is the case, is there no contacting the company the account was opened with and asking how this could have happened? Why or how did it happen?

If you cut the problem off at the root, it will stop happening. Was the account company not notifying him of his outstanding debt? I'm going to go figure out what statute of limitations means and I'll come back and chat more.

Ok, so this guy is a deadbeat. He, for whatever reason, had a credit card go into charge-off, and now the debt has been bought by collections. Deadbeat or no, that doesn't give them the right to threaten him with legal action, refuse to send verification of debt, or acknowledge that they're even licensed to collect debt in the state of NC. The lady doesn't even seem to know the rules about 1 party consent in regards to recording a phone call. Not only that but there seems to be some ambiguity as to the statute of limitations regarding charged off debt. Of course, the collection agency will say that it starts from the date they purchased the debt, not the date it was charged off by the CC company, but that may or may not be right.

What really needs to happen is someone needs to record a call, except instead of getting all haughty, just say "Well, according to section XX of the FDCPA, You must do XX and YY in order to begin collection on the debt, and the statute of limitations starts on XX/XX/XXXX, not, as you claim on YY/YY/YYYY. In which case, it's already run out. So, sorry about your luck, stop calling me."

Okay, I know now what the statute of limitations is. While I understand why it's necessary, I fail to see how it's acceptable that a debt was left unpaid. Again, were this to happen to me, I would get to the source of the problem and stop it there, wherever it be - the account holding company, fraudulent collectors, or whatever it may be.

Uggghhh. I was in a super nasty car accident last year and racked up a literal shitload of medical bills, and maxed out my credit cards while I was out of work. My ex had just bailed on me and wiped out my bank account and took all my furniture, but all was good until the accident.
I started getting calls about my car loan (which had been paid in full by my insurance co.) from a collection agency at work. They would NOT STOP CALLING me at work. They'd leave messages telling the people in my office who they were. The woman kept identifying herself as "Agent Jones" which to me was a tactic to make me think she was some sort of law enforcement. She threatened to have my wages garnished.
I'm pretty sure ALL of that is illegal.
I know I still have some stuff floating around due to the accident, and a car lease I co-signed (sigh...I know...should have known better...but it was my DAD) and I just started getting calls again Monday. TWELVE phone calls from the same collection agency between 3pm-8pm. I believe its from a hospital bill from the accident, and my settlement should be here within two months so they'll be paid, but they don't want to hear it.
I LOATHE collection agencies, seriously. I remember when I was a kid my mom had let something slip for a while, and they called and threatened to TAKE HER KIDS. Jesus.

This is what is wrong with America. You people all have it backwards!!!

This jerk (the guy) is the worst kind of human being. He wants to get something for nothing and he thinks he is entitled to it. PAY YOUR BILL YOU ASSHAT.

That recording made me want to reach into my computer screen and strangle that irresponsible little baby.

@hypnotik_jello: Not only are you never supposed to get sick yourself, but neither is your spouse or children. You are not supposed to take care of a parent or grandparent if they become ill. Unexpected pregnancies are not allowed. Injuries are not allowed. You are not allowed to develop any kind of mental illness. Allowances will not be made for genetic defects.

Do not get fired, laid off, demoted, or otherwise lose or reduce your main source of income. Your small business is not allowed to fail. The large business you work for is not allowed to fail. The same goes for your spouse.

Your home is never supposed to be in the path of any natural disaster, including drought. Neither is it allowed to suffer from any man-made damage. This includes any other property you own.

You are not allowed to become a victim of credit card or identity theft. You are not to be the victim of any major crime.

There may be other things that are not allowed that are not listed here.

What the collection agency did was wrong and they probably violated the Federal Credit protection laws. As to the statute of limitations, I had a hard time finding what triggered it in NC. The date of last payment or the date is was written off by the company (she claims it was 2k7, we are not given more info).

I don't know much about wire taping laws but from what it sounds like, he was calling them. I did not hear him inform them he was taping the conversation. My only point being that if he sued them for violating debt collection law, the tapes of them being stupid/lying would not be admitted.

From the sound of his voice and attitude, he is not dying nor had a tragic accident. He seems to have not paid a debt and now does not want to now. If it is w/in the statute of limitations, he owes it by law. Sure, he can take action for their violations but he still owes it. IF it is outside the SOL he owes it not by law but morally.

@BugMeNot2: I think you and I are on the same page here.

Yet somehow he didn't bother to say that in any of his recordings!

@Plague: Because it's already in the description of the video? Why be redundant? He probably doesn't even know the video is up here. Consumerist got it from Caveat Emptor.

If this was a bit taken from a text article we'd still be expected to follow the link and read the whole thing.

@firestarsolo:
I hear ya- I believe folks would be a bit more receptive to your opinion if you took the edge off of it. :P

There is another wrong with debt- for many it is necessary or a choice they are making. I find, just as you do, that there is no excuse for not paying debts you agree to- and even if this guy is a bit sleazy and coy- the lady is both aggressive and ignorant (a lethal combination in almost any scenario).

So she broke the law- he broke a contract- it is hard to say who is worse. I'd still say from my judgment the non-paying debtor is worse, even though at this point he is legally in the clear I find his ethical violations to be more offensive than her ignorance.

I don't know much about wire taping laws but from what it sounds like, he was calling them.

@Javert: There were returning his calls to them. You can hear the "your call may be recorded" audio on one of them.

@JeffM: Thank you for the tact I lack. It has been a long day, and this is the response I would have posted myself if I weren't running on empty.

Thread closed (;

@firestarsolo: The problem is that it is not very easy to get to these people. On the Capital One card I mention above- I received the notice, sent a request to verify the debt, received a letter saying, "As on XX,XX,2007 you owe $1500." I sent another angry letter back saying thats not verification (nice to be a lawyer sometimes) sue us. Dead silence for a month and we receive another letter from a different company with the same address. Repeat steps above.

I have not heard anything since, but with a good working knowledge of the FCRA and debt collection I was able to block them. I fear for those not in that position.

K.