Does this apply in Canada as well? What about for debit transactions?

Does this work with the government too? My city's utilities bill tacks on an extra $5 if making a payment with a credit card. I like my rewards and this is the only bill that doesn't play the game well.

Wait, making people verify their ID to match the credit card is AGAINST the rules? How fraudulicious!

So here is my question about ratting out your local Chinese Takeout Joint becuase they are posting a $10 credit card minimum:

What's the point?

I assume terminating the merchant agreement is a last resort, but this would result in me simply not being able to use my credit card there at all. Not great for me.

Since they have a minimum, I can only assume that they have concluded that transaction fees from small purchases will eat into their profits, so if they are backed into the corner, they may have to raise prices across the board (or worse). Not great for me either.

Bottom line - ratting out the Chinese Takeout joint provides me no benefits. If the credit card issuers were truly concerned about this, they would be proactive about it. I'm certainly not going to do their dirty work for them. Maybe if they gave me $50 for each tim I snitch, I'd go ratting on all the pizza joints in a 10 mile radius, but otherwise this is not my problem or my job.

I have only ever been denied a credit card purchase at a liquor store. I know for a fact that i've even seen signs hanging that said minimum $10 purchase for credit cards. I guess next time I get refused, I need to take a picture of the sign and say i'm emailing it to visa. whats the penalty they face?

How about taxi cabs? I have been kicked out of cabs when I asked if I could use a credit card, because I wasn't going 'far enough'.

Wow. Kinda depressing that it's not a hard-set rule to require additional ID when you present a credit card for payment for something.

@bravo369: What do you hope to accomplish exactly? If they stop accepting credit cards, I'm sure everyone will be happy, right?

Wait wait wait...
I live in Seattle, WA and almost every, if not all, Taco Bells here charge a fee for using a debit/credit card. You mean I can now go in there, and call BS on that?

I always feel horribly conflicted when I go to a small business that has a minimum charge. I know I should just carry cash, but I hate cash, and I'm not good at remembering to get it. I also know they're in violation, but I'd feel like a heel turning them in..

Can't we save some time and just cut and paste the comments from yesterdays post over here now?

I've never been charged a fee to use a credit card - but I have been to stores that add 25cents to the bill if you want to use your debit card

there are a few stores here that only accept cash though

@SaveMeJeebus: Some states require credit card companies to allow convenience fees for payments to certain government institutions. Here is one explanation from Alachua County, Florida.

@theninjasquad: I'd think that Visa's rules apply globally, as Visa is accepted globally.

Why do the credit card companies have the charge per transaction anyways? Don't the make enough cash off our interest charges on purchases?

@Troy F.: Exactly. The cafe at my office has a $4 limit... yes, it's annoying but the owners are very nice people and there's no way I'm about to throw a hissy fit about it.

@Troy F.: "So here is my question about ratting out your local Chinese Takeout Joint becuase they are posting a $10 credit card minimum:

What's the point?"

The point is, Visa calls up the joint and says "stop doing that, or we'll revike your ability to take Visa."

Then the Chinese joint says "Crap, we better stop doing that, or we won't be able to take Visa anymore."

Problem solved.

@aaron8301:

Go back and read the rest of my post and try again. I really would be interested in hearing a compelling reason to do Visa's dirty work at my own cost/expense.

Thanks.

Seriously?! I can finally tell bars with a $20 minimum credit card purchase to shove off?! This is better than knowing I can end my Sprint contract next month without an ETF!

@sandwich_pants & m0unds: They're probably thinking that handing over your address and driver's license number, in addition to your name and credit card number, to a minimum wage slave is likely to result in fraud.

I've never had anyone write anything down when checking my id for a card purchase though so unless I've shown it to someone with a photographic memory I'm probably good.

Whoa, I'm confused - why is it considered a bad thing to make you show Id when placing something on a credit card? I like it when businesses do that - makes me feel a little more secure in the fact they're not helping some thief put something on my card.

@theninjasquad:
I.D.s are not required for debit cards when used as a PIN transaction because the PIN is the identifier. Dunno about the Canada thing, though.

Credit card companies charge the merchant a flat per-transaction cost plus a % of the sale. The flat transaction cost is usually around 25 cents to 50 cents depending upon the type of transaction and the type of card you use. Yes, if you use a "reward" card that gives you points the retailers are the ones that pay extra so you can get your precious frequent flier miles. If a little corner store charges a $10 minimum transaction on credit cards it's because they're in the hole 70-80 cents to the card company before you ever buy anything. I can't blame them for doing so; especially a little corner store that rarely rings up more than 10 dollars anyway. Visa won't cut them off either. They might send them a warning letter but they're not going to cut them off. If Visa pulled their account they're going to lose tens of thousands of dollars in merchant fees over a year. That's hardly worth losing that money because you couldn't buy a can of Red Bull with your debit card.

@Rectilinear Propagation: That said, I'd rather there was a rule against people writing sensitive information down on checks.

@smallestmills: I meant more when stores charge you for using debit if its under a certain amount. Like a 25 cent surcharge or something.

@Teqonix:
Then write "See ID" on your card. You can even sign it and write "See ID" in the space leftover. I am a lowly retail slave and diligently check all signatures and cards, but in compliance with Visa/Mastercard policy, I do not check ID if it's not written on the card. My personal cards have "See ID" written in permanent marker with the rest of the signature panel blacked out.

@SpiderJerusalem: You don't have to turn them in, you just have to ask them if they know that's illegal. I've done that before and they take my card, no questions asked, after I point that out. Then you dont have to get them in trouble or anything.

@smallestmills: Unless your name is "See ID" writing that on your card technically makes it invalid. Read the small print on the card, it says the card must be signed to be valid.

The fact of the matter is that processing credit card transactions costs the merchant money - I think they are absolutely within their (intrinsic) rights to protect their ability to not lose money! I think that the credit card contracts which require minimum purchases/no extra charges are simply encouraging consumers to behave in a manner that makes the credit card company lots of money, while slashing merchant margins.

I think it's best for society if the cost of the credit card transaction is explicitly added to the cost of the purchase. We need to stop credit card companies from skimming money off each transaction to make their profits and hand money back to consumers in loyalty programs, encouraging wanton spending.

Perhaps we need to straighten out a few terms here. There is noting "illegal" against them requiring a minimum purchase or requiring an ID to be shown (unless of course your state/municipality has enacted such a law). A violation of the Visa/MC merchant agreement does not constitute a violation of law. Therefore, it is not "illegal". It is a violation of their merchant agreement. So when you call them out, don't tell them it's illegal, simply inform them they are in violation of their merchant contract with the respective credit card company, and you plan to report them.

Why do people care about the ID thing so much? It's not your liability anyway if someone uses your credit card fraudulently, as long as you report it. It's the bank's problem. So why should you care that much? Most of the time when there's fraud it's done without them physically possessing your card anyway (they will just use your number online, or by cloning it, in which case writing "check ID" isn't going to help you).

So by showing ID you are potentially opening yourself to more fraud for basically no reason.

Ok so is it in violation of the agreement with MasterCard that Arco gas stations only allow you to use a debit card and they charge you 45 cents per each transaction?
Is this allowed in California or something? Anyone?

I am going to do my best to answer some of the questions on here. I work closely with merchants, processors and payment card companies.

@SmallestMills: You cannot write See ID on the back of your card. You must sign your signature or you technically have violated your agreement with your card provider.

@SaveMeJeebus: The extra $5 is to offset the transaction processing costs. It is referred to as a convenience fee. It is legit as long as the same fee is applied evenly across all methods of payment. According to Visa and MC, merchants cannot charge a $5 fee for credit cards and a different fee for debit or electronic check payments.

@Aaron8301: VISA USA is responsible for purchases in America. Their agreements do not apply to other countries.

General comment: Transaction fees through Visa and MC are significantly more expensive that debit card or check payments. The credit card companies bake rules into their agreements to prevent merchants from steering customers away from credit payments as a means to keep their costs down. However, something will eventually have to give as credit processing fees keep going up (mostly to pay for the rewards that we all enjoy.) That is why the interchange process is being examine by congress.

Veronykah,

Certain states (I am looking at you CA) have passed legislation that trumps the credit card agreements. In these states you will ofter see that you can buy gas with cash for a cheaper price than if you pay with credit. Visa and MC hate this!

@PaymentJoe:
This doesn't "trump" the CC agreements. The Visa/MC agreements specifically say that they CAN offer a discount if you pay with cash.

About twice a month I get the "we need to see your ID to compare signatures" line when buying something. Seeing the signature in the back of the card seems logical.

So does this apply if your using a checkcard but running it as credit?

Ironically I only get this routine if I happen to be shopping in sweats on the way home from the gym.

@Troy F.: *thunderous applause, panning left and right* Most places that require a minimum are mom and pop places. No way am I going to report them, especially since the result will be higher prices even when I'm paying cash.

Not to sound as an ass, but I have a friend that has a hamburger join in montebelo, ca and he needs to pay about .50cent to 4 bucks depending on the amount proccessed. How is it fair for them. The VISA/MC make alot of money from this and screw the little guy alot. Alot of them have ATM only. And honestly if you do not have 5 bucks for food, you should not eat out and stop spending on credit cards...

@PaymentJoe: Actually I think you can write "See ID" on your card as long as you still actually sign it. But I don't see why you would.

@remusrm: I do sympathize with small merchants, which is why I would never report one for trying to have a minimum purchase for cards (especially at a place that mostly does small transactions). But at places like that credit cards are mostly used for convenience, not to borrow money people don't have. I use them with no guilt at all at any chain restaurant, because I simply don't feel like carrying cash around and manually managing my spending records.

@remusrm:
Yeah, I agree that people shouldn't report the smaller stores. But for stores like Taco Bell and McDonald's that charge .50 for each transaction, could they be reported?

I've only been told about a minimum purchase amount at two places: a little Subway shop and a local Vet's office. Both places are tiny and have low traffic. As such, I don't mind it at all.

How is making yo ushow id with your credit card against the rules?

ISnt that a good thing so that the store knows that its your credit card?

@majortom1981: It's good for the store since it might reduce their risk. It's not so good for you, since you're showing them your I.D. with your name, address, DL number, etc for a reason that doesn't benefit you in any way. It's not your problem as a customer whether the merchant gets ripped off. I think VISA made this rule most likely because they thought having to show an ID might discourage credit card use by consumers.

@theninjasquad: Visa and Mastercard are not making money on the interest, directly.

You know, at Pat Catan's (craft store) I had to show ID, and all I have is my passport. The stupid 80 year old had NEVER SEEN A PASSPORT and had to wander around the store with it asking if she could accept it as ID. It has my picture AND my signature on it! NO ONE WOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY to tell her yes!!!! I was ASTOUNDED as were the people behind me in line. Finally a manager, equally astounded, came over to clear it up.

I can't wait to go back and buy something there and haughtily tell the clerk that it's against their merchant agreements to request to see my ID and I refuse to show it, fetch a manager. YAY!!!!!

@Troy F.: I think it's a matter of principle. Some of us don't like to be discriminated against based on how we pay for something.

@remusrm: If you can't afford to pay the processing fee, don't accept credit cards or raise your prices!

I use credit cards because they are faster and more convenient than cash or checks. At Target, for example, I don't even need to show my card to the cashier--I just swipe it, sign, and I'm done before the cashier even finishes scanning my items. Even better, at some places, you don't even have to sign for purchases under $20. I can't stand when stores/cashiers demand ID with credit card transactions, especially because I have my photo and signature imprinted on my credit card. I don't worry about fraud because 1) the majority of credit card fraud is either electronic (online data) and tip-inflation at restaurants, neither of which in any way could be stopped by checking ID (stolen physical cards are comparably rare; and 2) I am not responsible for fraudulent charges. On the two occasions I've experienced fraud, the charges were instantly reversed.

Stores, as a policy, should not require ID. If individuals CHOOSE to restrict their card to ID-verification, then they can put a sticker or something on the back instructing the cashier to check.

@remusrm: At my favorite comic book shop in LA, I only wanted to purchase a $3 comic and had no cash. Rather than (illegally) turning me away, the owner offered the book for free! Instead, I just purchased an additional $20 paperback.