Chase is refusing to honor a cashiers check for $19.700.22, 82-year-old widow Willie Floyd’s life savings. Willie stored the check, originally drawn by her late-husband in 1985, in a $10 per year safe deposit box at the local bank. When she tried to shift the funds into a regular savings account last year, she was told that the check expired after five years, and that her life savings now belonged to the state.
She hired a lawyer, Tarena Washington Franklin, who said she was directed to bank officials in Louisiana, who told her that the money had been given to the State of Wisconsin as unclaimed.
“I checked with the state, and it was not there,” Franklin said. “That money has to be somewhere, and we couldn’t get any answer from them. We filed a lawsuit to get their attention.”
Franklin noted that the check does not have an expiration date.
“What they’re doing, it’s unjust,” Franklin said of bank officials. “It will clearly be unjust enrichment for the bank if they are allowed to keep the money.”
Joshua Stubbins, a local lawyer representing the bank, filed a written response to Franklin’s lawsuit. He said a cashier’s check that is uncashed after five years is presumed to be “abandoned” under state law. He added that the bank “did not willfully or negligently commit a wrongful, illegal or inappropriate act,” and that the case should be dismissed.
Willie could have safeguarded her savings—and earned interest—by keeping her money in an FDIC-insured savings account. She claims to have learned a different lesson: “I didn’t even cook dinner last night,” she said recently. “I should have just buried that money in the backyard.”
Woman sues bank in hopes of recovering life savings [Milwaukee Journal Sentinel]
(Photo: Benny Sieu)
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I wonder if the fact that these older folks were kids during the Great Depression has anything to do with their unwillingness to put their money in a bank.
Might sound racist, but a lot of African Americans where I work don’t put money in the bank at all. They cash it out and use cash to pay for everything. Perhaps they don’t trust “The Man” (although I know quite a few of them owe child support and don’t want that money available to be withdrawn electronically).
@DeeJayQueue: ding dingdingdingdingding We have a WINNAR.
Ask anyone born before 1920 and they have a inherent distrust of banks and ANYONE suggesting they use them. They also have a tendency to stock up large amounts of non-perishables.
Both my grandmothers where like that, and not surprisingly bother went through the great depression. They kinda got over their bank fears, but they where still there and we often found a lot of money around their houses despite also having money in the bank.
well, now that she’s “alive,” she should get her money back.
Crazy lady did what? I love the “We filed a lawsuit to get their attention” part. I bet she winds up paying most of the money to the lawyer if she ever gets it back.
@Falconfire: I concur as well. My grandparents keep their money in a safe in their house, and think I’m being a little reckless not to stash something away like they are.
Under state law, the check was considered abandoned. Thats unfortunate. If the money was turned over to the state, then there should be a record somewhere. I can’t really blame the state or chase for this though. Chase claims they did what they were legally required to do, and to be quite honest, a bank as large as chase finding what happened to the money on ONE check from TEN years ago could pose problems. I feel sorry for the lady, but in reality, ignorance of the law is no excuse. I hope this ends up well for the lady
“Unjust enrichment” indeed. If the old lady had owed a debt that was overlooked or something, that’s one thing. The bank just took advantage of a bullshit technicality and got money it WASN’T owed — money it should never have been able to get. Stupid banks.
These state abondonment laws are a joke, almost infringing on illegal it seems. I understand why they were written, which in California it seems they were written to keep the bank or other financial institution from profiting from something like what this woman had in her safe deposit box.
Washington Mutual did this to my girlfriends parents. Even though they had an open and working and often used bank account with Wamu, along with a safe deposit box, someone decided at the bank that the safe deposit box was abondoned, never bothered to attempt to contact them, and sent over 15k worth of stocks, bonds etc to the state.
Wamu is refusing to help now and the state cant find any record of it and needs information from the bank. Its a mess. I’d say keep your money under your mattress or in a safe in your house, but we all know how that ends if the police come in and find something illegal.
All your money belongs to us!
Not for nothing, but a Willie Floyd has unclaimed property with the state of Wisconsin. I wonder if its her.
um…wtf do you store a check in a safe deposit box instead of cashing it and putting it in the bank?
I find it unfortunate that her “Life Savings” amounts to the approximate value of a compact car.
Bottom line- either the state has it or the bank has it. Someone is lying. My state is always trying to give back unclaimed money so methinks its the bank.
@JustRunTheDamnBallBillick.:
that didn’t take long.. god forbid someone at the bank perform the same search.. then this poor woman might have her money..
Unless it’s a typo, I’d give her $19.
I can’t really blame the state or chase for this though.
@fesslove: Why not? Like you just said, if the state has it there should be a record of it. So either the state has the unclaimed money but doesn’t have a record of it or Chase never turned over the money even though they’re claiming they did.
@milty45654: I think Falconfire’s earlier comment explains that part. (From what socalrob said I guess she’s lucky the physical check was even still in the safe deposit box.)
She claims to have learned a different lesson: “I didn’t even cook dinner last night,” she said recently. “I should have just buried that money in the backyard.”
Yeah, but if she’d done that the money would probably still be there.
This database has 79 instances of abandoned property under “Willie Floyd”. [www.missingmoney.com]
Surely the lawyer checked each one of these?
Why did she wait so long to cash it?
While I feel bad for her, I do have to agree that the bank did nothing wrong here. Who keeps a check for that long? At the very least, cash it and put the cash somewhere.
Strange stuff.
The irony is that (I guess) she didnt trust a bank enough to deposit the check into an account, but she let them keep it in their safety deposit box for 10 years?
@RECTILINEAR PROPAGATION: I think thats what she is getting it: if she had buried the money she would still have it.
@socalrob: This woman’s situation is different. She was not deemed to have abondoned what was in her safe deposit box but, rather, she’s holding a check that expired. The safe deposit box has nothing to do with the story excpet to explain how she has a check that went unchased for 22 years. If the husband drew the cashier’s check from Chase, he must have had an account there. It was that account that would have been considered abandoned. So there are really two issues here: (1) a check that expired and; (2) an account with Chase that was untouched for at least 22 years.
@nequam: I need a spell checker
Hmm, in 1985, banks were still interested in building up investor confidence so the interest rate on CD’s were probably pretty decent. If she took out a 10 year CD then, and rolled it over to another 10 year, or two 5 years, she’d have over $50,000.00 today.
Instead, bubka.
@rectilnear propagation: I meant to say I cant blame either one without more information. There should be documentation showing where the money went. If the state cant provide information on the unclaimed property, and Chase cant provide proof they handed it over, then it on the shoulders of Chase. If either party can provide good evidence the funds were handed over, its the government. the problem is, something like this will be hard to find due to the size of the company and the fact that this is a 10 year old check. This lady IS getting the shaft, the question is, by who?
Unclaimed checks are considered “abandoned property” and companies are required to “escheat” abandoned property to the state. State laws vary but in New York requires abandoned property to be turned over after three years. The assumption is that companies may fold or close but government is forever!
Besides the law, what companies do this is to clear their books. A company writes a check, at the end of the month, its bank sends a statement. Some checks are unclaimed, the company’s books don’t balance. The unclaimed amount gets carried over into the following month. Do this for thousands of checks over months and years and what the company’s books say and what its bank accounts says become very, very different. So after a number of years, the company will escheat abandoned property to the state (or states) and “clear” the books of those checks because money has actually left its bank account (albeit to the state). The company’s books and its bank statement should then, in principle, balance.
I highly doubt that the bank “took” her money as doing so would have also unbalance its books.
The problem is tracing a 22 year old check that was likely turned over to a state over 15 years ago. It’s a problem with records ~ either the bank or the state.
@polyeaster: my guess is because a check takes up less room than the money itself, since rental of a safety deposit box depends on size…and it’s already been commented on why she didn’t cash and stick it in the bank
I thought states had records of unclaimed property? And shouldn’t the bank have a record also? In a culture of CYA, both sides should have records, or am I missing something?
All the Consumerist needs today is a story about a 97-year-old suing Reynolds Wrap because their tinfoil didn’t successfully block government mind-reading rays. Then we’ll have the complete trifecta of pandering to old people against big corporations even when they did the stupid or illegal thing. And half of the commenters here will probably be on that old person’s side too.
This isn’t really Chase’s fault. They were just complying with the state’s escheat laws. If anyone is ‘unjustly enriched,’ it would be the state. The purpose of the escheat laws is to ensure that property isn’t left ownerless and therefore transfers it to the state. At this point Chase would no longer have any responsibility for the property as it is now in the possession of the state. This lady’s lawyer is barking up the wrong tree.
@Saboth: Hit the nail on the head there; my brother works for NYC Sanitation, and he indicates that the lack of bank accounts is the reason why his department doesn’t offer direct deposit, because the workers are ‘all’ apparently avoiding court orders of some time.
Seriously, banks are writing off billions of dollars in sub-prime debt, what’s another 20K to a little old lady other than bad PR?
@nequam:
Was that bank a Chase when he drew the check? That can explain the lack of a proper record.
I have been involved in this type of situation on the bank side. Where I worked, we would have worked with the customer to recover the funds from the state. However, we would not have claimed it was turned over and there have been no records.
@testsicles:
Screw the CDs. Had she dumped the money in the Dow (all blue chips, by definition) and forgotten about it that $19,700 would be worth ~$220,000 today. It pains me to even think about that.
I don’t see how Chase is to blame here.
Laws are setup that unclaimed money be turned over to the state. A check that goes uncashed is considered lost/abandanded, and the bank does not profit from this (other then probable intrest gained while waiting for the check to go uncashed), but at that point the money and/or property is turned over to the state.
I’m not sure how it works in other states – but here in Illinois, in the past few years has been working hard in trying to find who owns the unclaimed stuff – [www.cashdash.net]
I see my great-grandmother has something worth under $100 unclaimed… but I have not done anything yet to claim it.
Anyway, it is a shame – but I don’t see how Chase is to blame – they need to go after the state in trying to get the claim of the money.
Doesnt her state have an “unclaimed property” database? You know…. for money that is owed to a person (even a dead person) & is kept on file in case the person comes forward to claim it.
In my state…. you can even claim unclaimed/mislaid funds for a deceased relative.
@Index4life: Yeah, I was trying to think of the least thing you could do, if you knew nothing about money and told the bank that you didn’t need it for a while.
Whether or not Chase is to blame, they’re complete morons for not turning a bad situation into one that benefits. Cue commercial:
“I left a cashier’s check in a safe deposit box at Chase for so long that the government took the money. Chase let me cash the check anyway, and now I have my retirement money. I feel safe using Chase bank, and I’ll always use them.”
How much does Chase spend on advertising each year? Millions. Who traditionally has the biggest savings accounts? Seniors. How many seniors responding to this ad would it take to recoup the $19,000? Not many.
It’s mind blowing how many corporations miss the opportunities that turn into bad PR.
@DeeJayQueue: Word.
@Saboth: Word.
@Hanke: This isn’t the case with this lady, so why even bring it up?
@fesslove: Hell, Chase won’t process a US drawn check if the teller’s have never heard of the bank.
@Saboth: Yeah, that is pretty racist.
But to that extent I’m willing to bet that if the picture was of a old white lady more people would reply with sympathy than, “but if…”.
If depression-era folks are so distrusting of banks, then why did this lady have a cashier’s check in a safe deposit box at a bank? Why wasn’t the money in coffee cans buried in her back yard or something instead? Somehow I don’t think that’s it, I think she just assumed the cashier’s check didn’t have an expiration date on it.
Now that it’s in the news the state will miraculously “recover” the funds and she will be taken care of.
These stories are so painful. I hope this can be resolved for her.
And now I’m going to go check my online banking for the umpteenth time to see what little I have after bills….
From personal experience (don’t ask). The state got the money, they just don’t have or screwed up the records.
She isn’t going to get anything, if she does, it will be from the government.
Her lawsuit against chase will be dismissed, I really really do feel bad for her.
Unless Chase decides to be charitable and for all points and purposes, donate this kind of money to her, she won’t be getting anything, and thats a shame.
It’s not just people who grew up in the Depression who have an “inherent distrust of banks.” I’ve had one since the 70s, when, on a tip from my grandfather, I withdrew my college savings from a savings and loan literally a day before it folded. Since then, I have been a credit union member.
Once I opened an account with a small bank near my home to save gas when the credit union branch I had been using lost its lease, and almost immediately regretted it when the bank held a deposit – my paycheck, right before Christmas – for two weeks and ruined the holidays (I had to use my Christmas savings to pay bills instead of buy gifts and foods). I closed the account, and they “waived” the fees for closing the account. (There were FEES for closing the account after they screwed up!!!)
Three years later, the bank sold to another bank, and those “waived” fees suddenly showed up as an unpaid debt against me! I had one heck of an interesting conversation with the Texas Attorney General’s office, and the buying bank backed down. And another three years later, the same thing happened again! No, banks are evil, and any sane person should distrust them to the point of never having anything to do with them. Ever.
@Keter: I don’t know that banks are inherently evil, but much like the insurance industry they’ve tumbled to the fact that mistakes that benefit them will generate money for them because a certain percentage of people will not bother fighting for what is rightfully theirs.
I’ve long been an advocate of an independent agency (no lobbying, no political party affiliation) that reviews “mistakes” made by insurance companies. If an insurance company makes a mistake and then fails to correct it after being asked, the company must pay the affected party 10 times the amount in question. In other words, make it extremely expensive for mistakes to not get corrected. Maybe if you applied the same rule to banks, we’d see a lot less of these kind of screw-ups.
@Keter: Credit unions are more secure, but any insitution where money is involved can pose problems. I’ve had some great banks, and some lousy ones. In college, I worked for the university and if I wanted my paychecks direct deposited, I couldn’t specify my bank account. They only dealt with one local bank, and I would’ve had to get an account there. Looking at how they handle business, I wouldn’t have ever wanted my money going there.
I can NOT believe some of the responses here.
“Too bad, but it’s the law”? Forty years ago, it was the law for Mrs. Floyd to sit at the back of the bus. I guess that makes Chase bank’s actions alright then, does it?
Here’s a better question: Why don’t banks tell their customers that cheques expire or what the law is? Answer: Because they couldn’t get away with confiscating depositors’ money and calling it their own.
Whatever happened to common decency? Forget “the law”: This woman is retired and living off the money. What sort of company is willing to say, “Screw you, starve to death”, and what sort of people are willing to stand by while they do it? Chase bank should be shamed publicly and held upside down by their collective ankles until her $20,000 is collected.
@evslin: The problem with failing banks was you couldn’t get cash you deposited back out. Security boxes and contents were still yours and accessible. The problem was when your cash got intermixed with everyone elses, and the bank had it all loaned out and not in the vault.
@Saboth: I know a couple who does the same thing, and neither of them are African American. They cash their paycheck and only deposit into a credit union if they need to electronically transfer the funds to pay bills. They have very little savings and carry all that cash with them. They have no debt, though, which makes their financial practices rather respectable.