Mitch writes:
There are several types of people out there, but I’m the kind of person who believes people should stick with what they say. Circuit City offered a Sharp 46″ Aquos on Black Friday this year, but they weren’t about to let me have it easily. Now, having done Black Friday in the past I knew I would be in for a fight to get my TV, but what I had to go through was just ridiculous.First off, there was the battle to get in the store. When I arrived I was told we couldn’t wait on mall property and had to wait in front of the Ross next door. So we had a line of cars waiting for 4am when the guard said it would be ok. A police officer from the Irving Police department showed up and told us at 4am there would be no running and we would go in an orderly line to the front of Circuit City. That didn’t happen.
At 2:30AM a guard came up and motioned his hands to let us go over….this started a MAD DASH towards the front door. I got a pretty good spot near the front of the line. We waited until 5am when they handed out the papers for some of the laptops…and then began Mad Rush No. 2. People from all sorts of directions came running. They ran in from outside the line, inside the line, everywhere. I was about number 4 or 5 in the faster of the 2 lines. The first guy in the line wanted the same TV as me. He walked away with this smile on his face, and walked up to me and said “They didn’t have any Sharps at all, so they sold me a Bravia!” Next thing I know I’m at the front of the line and the guy tells me “We never had any of those Sharps to begin with.” To which my reply was,” You had none? As in Zero? As in they didn’t even bother shipping any to you?” “Yep, that’s right, but I can sell you this Sony Bravia that’s just as good as what you’re getting. Everything is the same except is uses the Sony processor rather than the Sharp. It’ll cost an extra 150 dollars though.” Well, this sounded pretty good to me, so I took it, and went home to sleep.
8 hours after the mad rushes I get up and decide to do some research into the TV I just bought. I discovered the following:
Sony Bravia KDL46V2500:
Display Type: Flat Panel LCD
Screen Resolution: 1080p
Aspect ratio: 16:9
Contrast Ratio: 7000:1
Connection Options: 2 HDMI, 3 Component, 1 PC input.
Height: 29.8″ (31.7″ on optional base)
Width: 44.1″
Depth 4.8″(13.3″ on optional base)
Weight: 70.6 lbs.Sharp Aquos LC46D64U:
Display Type: Flat Panel LCD
Screen Resolution: 1080p
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Contrast Ratio: 10,000:1
Connection Options: 3 HDMI, 3 Component, 1 PC input.
Height: 27.5″ (29.8″ on optional base)
Width: 43.4″
Depth: 3.8″(12.9″ on optional base)
Weight: 54lbs.Well, now I’m pissed. The Sharp is better in many, many ways. It’s smaller, has more inputs, and has a higher contrast ratio. Here begins the battle!
The local store won’t do anything for me, they never had the TV in the first place, so I have to start my battle with regular Customer Service. Well, the phone system now has a button to press if you’re calling about the Sharp Aquos 46″….it gives you a message saying they’re out of stock and disconnects you. Nice. So I call 3 or 4 times, and talk to random people from Customer NoService. I keep getting told the same thing- There’s nothing we can do, just go return the TV. Well, this just infuriated me even further. I mean at this point I’m pretty sure that I’ve been bait and switched.
The next step I took was emailing the consumer affairs email on consumerist. I gave them 3 days to respond before I filed a Better Business Bureau report. They didn’t respond. Wow, that’s some awesome service there guys! I file my BBB complaint. After filing my BBB complaint I did the all important EECB. The next day I got a call at 10:01AM, from the executive customer service division of Circuit City. Well, I was busy moving so I asked if they could send me an email back. I never received an email. I got the executive phone number, dialed the CEO’s office and said,” Hi, my name is Mitchell and I spoke to someone from executive customer service, they said they would send me an email but they never did.” The woman on the other end was very polite, and within 30 seconds we tracked down the person I had spoken to. She asked how I got to her number again if I never got the email, and I told her. She sounded a bit amazed and scared at the same time. This started emails and calls back and forth between me and customer service, some of them follow:
1. Dear Mr. M, I am very sorry that this did not get to you yesterday per our conversation. I will get back to you as soon as I can with what I find from my researching your issue.
Thank you very much, and again my apologies.
[redacted]
Executive Response Specialist.
Office of the Chairman, President and CEO.
Circuit City Stores, INC. Corporate2. Good morning Mr M, how are you? I’m sorry it has taken longer for me to get back with you about this issue.
I wanted to let you know that I heard from our Merchandising department this morning and they will be working with
the Irving store to get you the Sharp TV. Once I hear back from them as to the specifics of the item getting to the store
I will let you know.Thank you again,
3. Hello! Per our conversation I advised the store that you said you would probably be there on Saturday, that is what I thought you said. The store has moved the item from their regular store inventory and are holding it for you. The amount you paid for the Sony will be used to pay for the Sharp. There will not be a refund and a recharge on your card. Unfortunately, I am not able to give you the total amount of what the purchase will be from the Executive Office. I can tell you that you will be getting the Sharp TV for the sale price offered on Black Friday. When you go into the store you will need to bring the original TV which will be returned and the credit will be used to pay for the Sharp.
Alright- everything looks great. As I’ve now moved I get up early Saturday morning and drive down to Irving and grab the TV from my parent’s house. This is about 42 miles round trip, by the way. We go to the store, and about 30 minutes later we’re told that no one knows what’s going on and they can’t give me the TV for the price…. Despite me showing them the email from executive customer service. They take a bunch of copies of stuff and told me they’d call the executive office and get back to me Monday. I decide to send an email to executive customer service (I never did get that call). The email read as:
“I went to the Irving store today and spoke with Drew Begole- Store Director. No one at the store had an idea of what was going on, and they said they called their regional manager who also didn’t know what was going on. Could you please assist me with this?
If you need to call me I can be reached at [redacted]
Thanks,
Mitchell M.”Monday rolls around and I get a call from the Executive customer service, and they tell me I’ll be getting a call from the Irving operations manager. I do. They said it will be a couple days and they’ll let me know.
Wednesday night I still hadn’t gotten a call, so I call and ask for the operations manager. She was busy. She called back and left me a message saying I could come in any night time and speak to sales manager and we would get it worked it. Today I grabbed my friend with a truck, went and got the TV. I even got 162 dollars back!
Moral of the story: it might take 3 weeks, a wasted trip to the store, 10+ phone calls, 14+ emails, and a BBB complaint, but if you were bait and switched there are options for getting what you were supposed to be offered originally.
- Mitch
Yep, that’s a bait and switch all right – advertised one deal and then they poo-pooh it and sell you another when you get down there. In retail, bait and switch is considered fraud and false advertising and can be punished by civil lawsuit. Mitch, we salute your dedication to getting the television deal you deserved. You rocked executive customer service and didn’t get discouraged when the local store professed to not know what was going on. Instead, you attacked on multiple vectors of the customer service hierarchy until you pushed the issue to completion.
Mitch, we salute you as consumer action hero of the week!
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@Pylon83:
Then perhaps they should have offered Rain Checks to first X number of people who asked for the TV. X = the number of TV’s that did not arrive on time. That would have demonstrated their good faith. Instead he states he got this response:
“I keep getting told the same thing- There’s nothing we can do, just go return the TV.”
In my opinion that does not demonstrate any good faith on CC’s part and further reinforces the perception that they were engaging in B & S. Obviously there were TV’s available since he finally got one.
@stopNgoBeau:
Totally my bad. I read it wrong. The Law in Texas is the substantially same as the law in CA. Tex. Bus. & Com. Code 17.46(b)(9) prohibits the “advertising goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised”. Further in Texas under this law the damages are economic relief including attorney’s fees and an order enjoining such acts. Further the court may adopt “any other relief which the court deems proper”.
@Pylon83:
Of course it usually has to be intentional. And yes normally what constitutes advertisements are just that, advertisements, and do not constitute a contract (but they can), however that is just generalities not the facts specific to the situation.
Obviously, none of us is in full possession of the facts. Assuming that some of us have legal knowledge it is perhaps unwise to give legal judgment (that did happen or what they should do in court) rather than practical advice about what consumers could do and what laws are out there. It is the burden of consumers to be informed, so in that way they appreciate and use their own minds to determine what is an is not authority and what their rights are – a minor point of my posts.
The short answer is that if a person wants to use the law and knows nothing, I say that retaining a lawyer who can give them advice according to not just the facts but the evidence and the law and who will (unlike any of us) stand by their legal judgment after a proper full inquiry into the matter would be a smart thing rather than depending on just the internet.
However per my point is that DEPENDING upon the facts the law and the cost, the person MAY be able to sue, and in certain circumstances it MAY be worthwhile. The private right of action of the consumer is obviously limited by the law and their (or their lawyer’s) knowledge of it.
But, who said it has to be litigated or should be? Obviously it was not needed in this case.
There is no standard way to measure contrast ratio.
Every manufacturer uses their own method, and Sony’s 10,000:1 might be Sharp’s 7,000:1.
@Sudonum:
I don’t think it makes any difference. You have to prove that at the time they were advertised, they intended not to sell them. Whether they offered rain checks or not is irrelevant to proving whether they intended to sell them or not. I agree it would have been a nice gesture, but I don’t think they are guilty of “bait and switch” by simply not offering rain checks.
@Pylon83:
Intent is hard to show but not impossible. Intent can be proven from the circumstances. Intent is also an objective rather than a subjective standard. Therefore if a reasonable person in this circumstance would have thought that the likely result would be unavailability of the product then intent can be shown. It is not clear from the facts whether there was or was not intent.
@Pylon83:
All I was pointing out was that if it was something as “innocent” as a failed delivery, then CC should have made good on their ad in some manner. The fact that this man went through what he says he did to get them to honor the ad shows a lack of good faith on CC’s part. The easiest thing for CC to do would have been to post a disclaimer at the entrance that the TV’s weren’t available, or that it was a misprint. Instead they tried to take advantage of the situation. Great for CC, bad for the consumer.
As to intent, you are absolutely correct. You’d never be able to prove it without a whistleblower or other inside information.
that’s why I only buy stuff from online retailers I trust.
@Curiousity: Great post. I wish they had this type of law for internet stores as well. Worst Buy has twice bait and switched me, but there is little consumers can do against the internet stores. I filed a BBB complaint, and wrote to the Minnesota AG (their state of operation) with no resolution.
@Pylon83: They’re guilty of bait and switch by offering a “like” product, at a higher price, in its place. Had they listed in the flyer that the TV may have replacements and “models may vary by store”- for the SAME price then yes, there is no bait and switch. But if you advertise an item, you’d better damned well either offer a rain check or another item of equal or greater value to replace it or it’s bait and switch.
A lot of you are saying that this story had little-to-nothing to do with the fact it took place on Black Friday, but I have to say, you’re all wrong. The fact this took place on Black Friday is critical to the story. The bait-and-switch tactic which CC used on Mitch would not have worked on a calm Tuesday afternoon. It was early, he was tired, the store was an insane mob scene, etc, etc. His judgement was clearly impaired, and CC knew it would be. Mitch said he researched this specific television, and had he attempted this purchased any other day, he would not have waivered from his pre-determined TV of choice. So, yeah, “the Black Friday thing” is not just a minor detail; it is the crux of this story.
That said, Mitch, you never should’ve changed your mind at the store. You never should’ve bought the Sony. You knew what you wanted, and you should’ve held your ground. If you’re unable to hold your ground at the crack of dawn after participating in a mob stampede, well, you shouldn’t go shopping at the crack in dawn after participating in a mob stampede. Plain and simple.
Signed,
Slept in on Black Friday
“Mitch, we salute your dedication to getting the television deal you deserved.”
“Mitch, we salute you as consumer action hero of the week!”
You have been saluted twice! You must have done a REALLY nice job.
Seriously though, I’m glad everything finally worked out for you.
The same thing happened to me in South Fort Worth. I went in at 8 am and they said that they never had any of the Sharps, but they had the sony that they could special order me from the warehouse for the same price. I wonder if it was a regional thing. We went ahead and bought the Sony and are really happy with the TV. It would be nice to have the extra HDMI inputs but I wasnt expecting to get the deal anyway as it being 8 and i had no intention of waiting in line that morning.
@jeffj-nj:
Good point.
Obviously the Black Friday business model properly done depends upon not only the emotions of the consumer, but on the idea of lost leaders to bring people in early to not only extend a shopping day, but also to impact people’s perceptions of what is a good deal.
@jeffj-nj:
I completely agree with you. Doing this on Black Friday is a way to kind of trap people into making a decision they may not otherwise have made. It may also be evidence of intent to do this considering posts saying other CC did the same thing.
Something similar happened to my wife and I during Black Friday 2006.
Not wanting to deal with the crowds (and having 2 small kids) we showed up at Circuit City at 1100.
We asked if they had anything still on sale. They didn’t have any advertised stuff left, but the salesmen pointed out that they did have a killer deal on a 50″ Panasonic plasma, unadvertised.
Not being a plasma fan I wasn’t initially interested. But then I saw the price, basically $1000 cheaper than normal (~$1600, installed with mount).
So we pay for the TV and head out of town for the weekend. We get back and there is a voicemail from the store manager wanting to talk about the TV.
We call him and he said there was a pricing error and that the TV wasn’t available at that price but that they would offer us something alternative.
The alternatives weren’t nearly as good a deal, even though the other 7 customers who bought the same TV we had, agreed to one of the alternatives.
We came into the store to look at the TV we had a receipt for and the alternatives. More and more we wanted our TV.
At this point, we started escalating the issue. The store manager was caught between a rock and a hard place. He didn’t screw up, corporate did. But we weren’t budging.
One corporate email with veiled threat of lawsuit and CC caved. We had a receipt for a TV that we expected to have delivered. CC didn’t have a leg to stand on.
Thus, I’ve had 50 inches of HDTV mounted to my living room wall for the past year. I think you can now get the TV for cheaper than what we paid, but oh well.
Sticking it to the man…
Well you went through all that trouble and the Sony is a much better screen! FACE!!
@bige311: Actually, I like the way the Sharp looks a lot more than I do the Sony. Thanks.
Last year, I got in line for a 42″ Panasonic 1080i plasma at Best Buy. About 15 minutes before the open, I was told the Panasonics were all sold out and the only thing left is an HP Plasma. If we wanted those, we would have to line up at the TV line near the Magnolia Hi-Fi store-within-a-store. Similar specs, as I was told. A few ppl gave up and set their sights on other stuff. But I got into that second line.
When I got there, I was #5 in the second line. When I got up there, I asked innocently if they still had any Panasonics left. They said yes, but its in their distribution warehouse. I was kinda shocked. Then I asked, “Can I get two, even though your limit is one?” They said “yeh, you can get as many as you want.” What a shocker! Although I didn’t walk out of the place with a TV that day, it was delivered within a week. Bait-and-Switch with a good ending
On the way out, I noticed this family who bought TEN LCDs. I was about to sock them. So many ppl wanted these 27″ LCDs for $200. But they were allowed to buy TEN. But I wasn’t there for the 27″ LCDs, so I didn’t stay angry for long, lol.
everybody whining about whether it was worth the time and effort spent to get such a minor change seem to have missed the point entirely. the store was clearly doing something wrong and all this guy was doing was just trying to cash in on what they originally offered. complacency leads to consumers being ripped off. job well done
I went to Circuit City for the same TV. I got into a register line with two other people in front of me. I dunno what TV the first guy wanted, but he got whatever it was. The 2nd guy, the one in front of me, wanted the Sharp. They were already out of stock. Apparently, they only carried 5 in the first place and with 5 registers open, less than 5 minutes was all it took. So I didn’t get it from Circuit City. Instead, I took their flier across the street to Sears, where the same TV wasn’t on sale. I asked a manager to pricematch it and without hesitation he did.
Sometimes the best Black Friday strategy is to interact with people who benefit from your business; the manager who pricematched probably got some sort of commission for helping me out (read: selling something to me). Or maybe not, but there was something about the lack of a panicky atmosphere that made the whole experience a lot less painful.
@bige311: I agree that the Sony smokes the Sharp, but that’s not the point. The point is that he wanted a specific telly and CC tried to pass off one that is a better set but probably also one with more margin that wasn’t what the consumer wanted. He fought for the product he desired, and he won.
Black Friday is symbolic of retailers “breakeven” point. The Christmas seasons is the icing on the cake. BF sales might be “good”, but the day before Christmas Eve is usually even better. Oh, and the after Christmas sales are quite nice.
I do most of my shopping from Dec 21 to Dec 23. Yes, I am a man, so maybe the late buying is a male trait. Funny thing, the price that I pay for stuff is as good or even better than the price you might have paid on BF.
Why fight the panic stricken crowds? Just wait a few days and buy the stuff at the “fantastic” BF sale price.
@pstork: I will agree that there are some 46″ Sonys that have better picture, but just like Sharp there are several models of 46″ Sony TVs, and I personally think this sharp looks better than the model they sold me.
“black friday” = sleeping in, pancakes for breakfast, a day with friends, and turkey and dumplings.
stories like this really make me sad that people can’t enjoy the small things that really make life worthwhile. it’s a four day weekend, people! sheesh.
So, how hard would it be for most folks who are planning to put themselves out like this for Black Friday, to go to the store the day or night before to confirm that a given product is available? If it isn’t, demand a rain check for the Black Friday price.
At a minimum, you’ve saved yourself an all-nighter with a bunch of fools.
Personally I think Mitch is an idiot. Instead of all this nonsense he should have simply referenced the SEC’s truth in advertising law in a recorded phone call to the manager. Or you guys could just stop putting up with this kind of BS and stop shopping at places like best buy and circuit city. Was it any surprise that they tried to dupe you on BF? And you went there anyway!?
@Meeksthegeeks: Shame on you for calling a consumer a whiner because they were unhappy with the fact that a retailer committed fraud and deceptive practices. I think if all a person belonging to this site has to contribute is some snide remark in a case like this really IS on the wrong site.
Also for those who are curious about ads and contracts a good starting place is Lefkowitz v. Great Minneapolis Surplus Store (Minnesota Supreme Ct. 1957) (can be found at [www.law.unlv.edu])
Congrats on getting the TV, good work. I see it like this: a deal is a deal. If CC did not want to offer the TV at that price then they should not have ever done so. I applaud you for you perseverance!
On a side note, in California each and every counties District Attorney. Within each of these offices is Consumer Affairs Unit that is mandated by law to undertake just this kind of crime.
Counties love them because there are rather large fines provided for in California Law. However, be judicious in involving these units as once you get them interested (if you can get them interested), it is likely that you will not be able call them off if you do get some satisfaction in some other way.
This is a longer-term solution & will necessitate you to document your complaint in writing and in the worst case, testify in court (very unlikely but possible) However, if you are truly wronged as in this bait and switch and it is obvious that you will be getting no satisfaction- this might be one type of satisfaction. Again congrats on your TV!
Good job Mitch!
We need more people to do exactly what you did to send the dishonest stores a message.
Shopper fights back! True consumerist spirit!
I think that everyone here is giving CCity way too much credit. I’ve been working at CCity for 3 years and the sad truth is that they just don’t know what they’re doing. They’ve got 18 year old kids who are getting paid $7.25 an hour in charge of inventory counts. Rules and procedures (and this is no exaggeration) change daily. Items that are on hold get sold on a regular basis. Training is next to non-existent and most of the product info that our sales staff gets comes from supervisors who are ill informed and is mostly incorrect. The only reason that I stay is because I know that no matter what I do or how much I screw up – nobody there cares.