Congress will require American automakers to achieve fleet-wide fuel efficiency of 35 miles per gallon by 2020. The deal struck late last night by Congressional negotiators and hailed as “an historic advancement,” would put America on the slow track towards meeting the same efficiency standards that Europe, China, and most of the developed world already enjoy.
Automakers are currently required to achieve fuel efficiency of 27.5 mpg for cars, and 22.2 mpg for light trucks, minivans, and SUVs. The Senate voted to raise fuel efficiency standards in June, but opposition from Detroit’s favorite spokesman, Michigan Congressman John Dingell, delayed House assent until now.
The package nearly fell apart this week when Mr. Dingell insisted on leaving sole authority to regulate automobile mileage standards with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, an arm of the Transportation Department. That would have weakened the power of the Environmental Protection Agency and the states, led by California, to regulate auto emissions of carbon dioxide, which are in large measure a function of the amount of fuel burned.Federal court rulings this year have decided this so-called pre-emption issue in favor of the E.P.A. and the states, decisions that Mr. Dingell hoped to undo by Congressional action. The traffic safety administration has had authority over fuel-efficiency standards since 1975 but has not imposed any significant increase since 1985. The E.P.A. is currently writing rules to comply with a Supreme Court ruling this year that gave it the authority to regulate carbon dioxide emissions and is weighing an application by California and 14 other states to set their own emissions standard.
The authority of the E.P.A. to regulate tailpipe emissions and the right of California and other states to set their own, higher standards were considered deal-breakers by Ms. Pelosi and her fellow California Democrat, Senator Dianne Feinstein. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Republican governor of California, weighed in late in the week to tell negotiators that he would oppose the bill if the Mr. Dingell’s preemption language stayed in.
Mrs. Pelosi and Democratic leaders in the Senate rejected Mr. Dingell’s preemption effort, but softened the blow by agreeing to allow the car companies to retain a credit for vehicles capable of running on a blend of gasoline and ethanol. That credit was set to expire in 2008 but now will begin to decline in 2014 and be eliminated entirely by 2020.
The fuel efficiency increase is part of a larger energy bill that the House and Senate leadership hope to pass by the end of the year.
Lawmakers Set Deal on Raising Fuel Efficiency [NYT]
(Photo: *USB*)
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@goller321: Is it really necessary to call people with opposing views names. You pinhead.
Oh BTW, There is no global warming.
The second a post gets tagged with the words “Global Warming”, the chicken little green wackos show up and start yammering.
It’s almost as bad as yelling “Ron Paul” on a conservative blog … the nuts arrive immediately.
OH well … this problem is self correcting.
Greenie fanatics generally don’t breed, now we just need to remove these dweebs from any educational responsibilities.
Tomorrow belongs to our kids … not to you.
@Neurotic1: Because it’s an untenable waste of time. No country’s going to meet it’s requirements unless they intentionally self-destruct and cripple their economies – oh, except the countries that got off scot free.
@Sam: So will you be the first to send $10,000 to the UN and certainly give up your personal transport to fix global warming – sorry, climate change? If not, why not? You clearly think they have our best interests in mind.
@NotACoolGuy:
Its not that I dont believe there is a problem, I simply dont believe the sky is falling like so many others do.
@RvLeshrac:
UNfortunitely, it isn’t as simple as that.
@Mike the Dog: Yours is one of the most insightful, sensible posts I’ve read here so far. Until that last sentence. Did you ever wonder what that “On board range-extending power source” is, exactly? My guess is “gasoline engine”.
Yep, it is a gas engine. When you go past the range for the batteries the engine kicks in a recharges the batteries as well as provide electricity to the drive motor. This hybrid is better for me than the current hybrids that use electricity below a certain speed and gas on the higher speeds.
Until the technology makes an electric vehicle that can go 2000 miles without a charge, we will be stuck with some kind of power generation on board.
@RvLeshrac: You dare to compare the USA to people that saw the heads off innocents or blow up children to get 70 virgins? Wow! Lay off the bong.
@danio3834: First of, I DON’T back this legislation. I think it is a pathetic, symbolic gesture- not real, comprehensive legislation. I’d like to see 60mpg by 2020, and 35 by 2009.
Second, I rather enjoy driving SUVs (though I’d use them for what they were originally intended for), it’s just that I REALIZE that my choices impact others. So I choose not to drive a gas guzzling death machine.
Second, I DO sacrifice. I pay a premium for renewable energy sources on my electric bill, I recycle, I drive as fuel efficient a vehicle as I can afford, and I try my best to reduce my consumption of all items. The people that are talking about limiting other’s “right” (end sarcasm) to own gas guzzlers have already made sacrifices in their lives. But screw you and your “right” if you decide you don’t care what impacts you have on others.
I find your version of what made this country great pathetic and worthless. Please tell some WWII vets that they fought for your “right” to destroy the country they worked so hard to protect. We have plenty of inalienable rights in this country, but this ain’t one of them. Your opinion of what makes America so great is exactly why our country is faltering now. Your self-centered, screw my fellow American and the rest of the world attitude because “I have the money to do it…” is a sad commentary on where we have gone. When your’s becomes the prevelant opinion, I hope this country does fall.
And your last bit about driving being good for America??? Are you a complete moron??? Please move to Southern California and tell me that cars don’t put out pollution! Please tell me how relying on foreign governments for our main source of power is good! And yes, Road Rage is on the rise, because driving is GREAT for our sanity…
@goller321: Wow, that was actually very moving. I think you hit the nail on the head — since when did being an American start to mean being proud of our ignorance, our stubbornness, and our ability to ignore the needs of others?
I wish we could reinvigorate the American spirit of innovation, compassion, and respect and leave this childish “me first and me only” mentality behind.
@headon: Yes it is, because since we aren’t face to face, I can’t throw you a beat down. And yes, I am one liberal not afraid to use physical violence when necessary… or just cause some moron deserves it.
@trollkiller: You are kidding right? These are the same people that firebomb abortion clinics and beat to death homosexuals for their sexual preference. These are also the same people that called for Chavez to be assassinated. And the difference is where???
@ExecutorElassus:
“If you ever visit Europe, you’ll find that people generally here don’t get turned on by large horsepower the way Americans do. It comes across as being distasteful to consume so conspicuously. We’ve been conditioned to value consumption in a way that most other industrialized nations haven’t.”
Ooh, you’re so sophisticated and refined.
It takes about 5 minutes to drive across Europe.
Try driving across the vast expanses of the American west in some pathetic euro-box.
Horsepower & speed rule. I really don’t give a shit what mpg my car gets.
@kbarrett: And those ways would be…
My statement was more of a joke, you’re seems to be a thinly veiled threat. Please feel free to elaborate on what you may do to me for my “threat”… you gonna send me to Gitmo? See ya tonight when you come with that black ops team of yours…
And since this has digressed into an almost exclusively environmental argument, let remind everyone…
We are paying for both sides in the war in Iraq, our’s and their’s. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the more money we give them, the more money they have to spread terrorist activities.
I see … when you threaten to harm others for mere words, it is a joke, and we should all understand and laugh, but when I state that physically attacking me will result in immediate countervailing force, It becomes a “thinly veiled threat”?
Here is another free clue for you.
I don’t make threats to harm people for having opinions I disagree with, or to harm people who say bad things about me, as you had just done, and are now claiming is hyperbole on your part.
Fine … I will assume that your statement was meant as hyperbole, and not a real threat.
I will retaliate very violently against anyone that attempts to use physical violence. No thin veil there at all.
I am completely harmless to all … unless you initiate the first use of force against me.
As for money and terror … I agree.
The sooner oil gets to $200 a barrel, the sooner people will pay for alternatives.
I would like to replace the 6.2L diesel in my Suburban with a Strontium-90 powered pebblebed reactor … the more oil costs, the closer that day comes.
What I don’t understand here is why the “pollution problem” is assigned to autos/trucks/etc almost exclusively, and then on top of it all becomes a political issue. Big industry all over the world pollutes & consumes in much bigger way than the end users driving cars.
Companies buy the right to pollute and emit crap into the air every day. Check it out.
Yes, it is a good idea to increase mpg, but the government shouldn’t be involved. This measure is half-ass & full of holes.
Most Americans aren’t going to be told what to do by anyone. We make the rules for ourselves. We don’t buy into any far away self righteous set of countries or organizations setting the standard for all of us. Our country was settled by people that were rebels to begin with, and that attitude will probably never go away.
The system needs to be put on trial. Automobile technology is antiquated anyway. There hasn’t been any real advancement since the 1920′s. Just refinement.
If You don’t like pollution, vote with your wallet, or stop driving, or stop farting, or doing anything that will endanger the “environement”
And in the meantime, Toyota is releasing a hybrid minivan in Japan this year. Here and here are the photos I took of it in the Toyota HQ showroom in Nagoya, Japan in May. (They also had a hybrid pickup, but I didn’t get any photos of it.) Call me when our car manufacturers and Congress make it into the 21st century.
@goller321:
Man, do you ever shut up about the “sky is falling” mentality that all you liberal, tree hugging, others who have differing opions than me are racist, homophobes who wish to destroy the planet have. The world is not going to end, it will be here long after we are dead and gone, and that includes our great great great great great grandkids. This planet has survived metor impacts far more devestating than this “sky is falling” mentality you have will have on the planet. So please stop wishing to impead on my rights to own and drive what I want to own and drive.
Wasn’t it a major breach of Security to allow Saudi Arabia to buy up Aramco? Why did we let that happen?
Does that mean Bob Lutz will threaten canceling cars again???
@goller321: The difference is you have a few individuals committing a crime and they are prosecuted by the Govt and condemned by the majority of those that follow the “same” religion vs. being support by their Govt. and praised by those that follow the “same” religion. If you can’t tell the difference you are either very stupid or are just being an asshat for internet jollies.
@Logan26: If the atmosphere is destroyed because of us, then the planet won’t be here forever and ever and ever.
The government isn’t telling you that you have to drive a small car, it’s telling the auto industry that they need to develop technology that gets better gas mileage. The “free market” would then dictate that the big 3 would make more fuel efficient trucks, SUVs, etc. in addition to cars, would it not?
@Logan26: Yes, the planet HAS been hit by meteors… and gee what happened there??? While humanity almost certainly would weather the climate change, there is a very real possibility that the people that have contributed less to this problem than anyone will be affected most. Famine, water shortages and loss of land will be devastating for the US, but catastrophic for most developing countries. And for the LAST time, you have NO RIGHTS to own or drive anything. It is a privileged. Please show me where cars are addressed in the Constitution please. This self-entitlement bullcrap is quite tired.
@trollkiller: If the Christian Right had their way, the only difference between the US and Syria would be the god we were forced to worship. And the fact that we have a sitting President that has repeatedly denied the existence of evolution and butchered science data to fit their needs doesn’t put us that far behind Ahmadinejad.
@hotrodmetal: You are correct. There are many other sources. There’s a very real reason to cut down on beef consumption, as the produce methane which stays in the atmosphere much longer than CO2. And CO2 sinks are being destroyed (Amazon) to make way for cattle ranchers. The soil erodes very quickly when the forests are cut down and then farmers are forced to move further into the rain forests. Additionally, lawnmowers and other gas driven power tools put out a ton of pollutants. Cars are merely the surface, but they’re a start.
Personally, I think the Iraq war should be funded solely by a gas tax. That way people that are getting the most out of this war (gas guzzlers) pay for the privilege they get to have (driving inefficient vehicles.)
@goller321: And for the LAST time, you have NO RIGHTS to own or drive anything. It is a privileged.
Amendment 5 – Trial and Punishment, Compensation for Takings. Ratified 12/15/1791.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Do I really need to explain this to you? Private property means property that you OWN not the Govt. Please take the time to read the Constitution before spouting off.
@goller321: If the Christian Right had their way, the only difference between the US and Syria would be the god we were forced to worship. And the fact that we have a sitting President that has repeatedly denied the existence of evolution and butchered science data to fit their needs doesn’t put us that far behind Ahmadinejad.
I recall that Bush said intelligent design should be taught along with evolution but I don’t recall him denying the existence of evolution. Please cite sources. I agree with Bush, when only 42% of Americans believe in evolution, ID should be taught or at least brushed on. If nothing more than to keep the science honest. [www.stuff.co.nz]
Making a statement like “if the Christian right.. blah blah blah” is like making a statement like “if the homosexuals had their way we would all be having b*tt s*x”. You will always have those with very strong self righteous opinions. (go look in the mirror) The difference between here and there is the strong opinions are tempered by the rest of us and is NOT the rule of law. For every “God hates Fags” reverend, there are thousands of “God loves Everybody” ministers.
If you can’t tell the difference you are in need of help. Seriously, put away the forks, knifes and other sharp objects.
@goller321: Personally, I think the Iraq war should be funded solely by a gas tax. That way people that are getting the most out of this war (gas guzzlers) pay for the privilege they get to have (driving inefficient vehicles.)
You are just trying to make me throw my computer into the lake. Admit it!
If we were in Iraq for oil we would be paying $1.50 a gallon and the war would be wildly popular.
@goller321:
You are a liberal nut job. I have the right to pursue happiness and own property. IE:Anything I want to own within the limits of the law and gas guzzling huge pickups and muscle cars are legal last time I looked. The fact you want that right to be taken from me and others just shows your mentality. Also, owning a car is a right(IE: property), driving is the privledge. Please learn the difference between the two.
@trollkiller:
Carlos Mencia said it best, next time you see someone who has been to Iraq, especially a soldier, ask them the last time they had McDonalds, BK, Arby’s, KFC or any other major chain fast food place. The answer might surprise you.
@Logan26: Please comment further as I am not sure I am getting your point.
We’ll all be underwater by then. Will the submarines be required to meet the same fuel efficiency ratings?
The need to import all the oil so people can commute solo in a Hemi Ram means we will be entangled in the middle east forever. Raising fuel efficiency means less dependence on the middle east and we won’t need to fight wars for oil. The cost of gas should reflect not only the pollution costs, but the military costs for a foreign energy supply line. I am happy to commute with an efficient 4 cylinder and have my fun fuel buring car for the nice weekend run.
@Sam: Or, “Glenn Beck: An Inconvenient Book” — #1 on the NYT Best Seller list, despite having not been mentioned at all in the liberal media.
@trollkiller:
The real point behind the war wasn’t but corporate america. Namely, Capitalism. McDdonalds, Arby’s, BK and other well known american companies have since opened up busniess in Iraq.
@trollkiller:
See, I can still agree with you while disagreeing.
The situation in Iraq is born of pure stupidity, and was started for all the wrong reasons.
None of those reasons was oil. If those reasons involved oil, we would have taken the oil fields by now. The people who keep yammering about it being “blood for oil” are woefully misinformed.
And with regards to your prior post, “nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.”
Don’t bold ‘private property’ and end it. You need to read the entire statement. No one (I hope) wants the government to swoop in and steal your car. Everyone *should* want the government to force automobile manufacturers to begin manufacturing affordable vehicles which use alternative fuels, or at the least have higher MPG ratings.
You also have to read ‘just compensation,’ though I don’t want the government swooping in and paying (as with property) ridiculously low ‘calculated’ values (blue book, which is worthless unless you’re an insurance company) for vehicles, effectively stealing them.
You can feel free to drive your gas-guzzler or what have you, I just don’t want ‘gas guzzler’ to be a choice when you need to buy a new car.
We can rebuild them. We have the technology. We can make them better, stronger, more fuel-efficient. We just don’t seem to give enough of a damn.
@trollkiller:
“only 42% of Americans believe in evolution”
Couple of problems with this:
1. At the time of the 2004 elections, the majority of Americans thought Saddam was involved in the 9/11 attacks. So forgive me if I don’t share your Family Feud method of measuring veracity.
2. Scientific theory isn’t something you believe in. Believing in something is based on faith. Science is the exact opposite – it’s self doubting. See, science, er, evolves through skeptics testing theories, disproving facts, making qualifiers and refining them. And based on available facts, the conclusion that a reasonable person reaches is that, while Darwin wasn’t right 100% of the time, he wasn’t wrong about the concept of evolution and natural selection.
The problem with teaching ID alongside evolution is that it’s neither science nor theory, because it’s not testable – to accept it, you have to believe in it. If it must be taught in school, it should be taught alongside other mythologies (btw, ID pushers write a lot of fun stuff, like the how human eyes couldn’t have developed through natural selection).
@ranwhenparked:
The market shows that people are unwilling to pay the currently inflated prices for them, not that they don’t want them.
If you have a choice between a $24,000 gas-guzzler or a $40,000 hybrid, and you’re barely making ends meet (as most Americans), your choice can only be one thing.
@headon:
That’s… utter crap. Even the human-causality deniers don’t argue that there isn’t any global warming. The argument is over whether or not global warming is influenced by humanity, and whether or not we can cull harmful influence, including the ‘how’.
@spinachdip:
You forgot to mention
3) Science is not a popularity contest.
If science was a popularity contest, the earth would still be the center of the universe, disease would still be caused by the ‘humours,’ and we’d all go in for trepanation and bloodletting whenever we had the sniffles.
@Logan26:
I agree, but my oversimplification was intentional.
And here: when the sky *IS* falling, it will be too late to do anything about it. That’s why the objective is to plan ahead.
@Logan26: and @RvLeshrac: It was not to push KFCs and whatnots onto the Iraqi people. We attacked Iraq for a couple of reasons. 1) We had the legal right to do it according to the UN resolutions 2) Saddam supported terrorists and had WMDs. Captured documents and Saddam’s own admissions confirm this. And most importantly 3) Location, location, location. Take a look a globe and see what countries border or are very close to Iraq. [upload.wikimedia.org]
By knocking out Saddam’s regime we are able to install a “friendly” Govt. and set up military bases that will allow us to police the region. If we need to attack Iran so they don’t obtain nukes, we don’t have to ask for fly over permissions.
@RvLeshrac: Don’t bold ‘private property’ and end it.
I was just trying to show the obvious fact that the constitution does confirm the right to own property. Seems that some loopy Lefties on here don’t think it is true.
One day the world will run out of petroleum. It’s a non renewable resource. DUH.
@RvLeshrac: BTW, I should have mentioned this, but the best part about intelligent design is that the very think tank that dreamt it admits that, in their words, “intelligent design itself has no content”. Basically, they wanted to show that evolution could be controversial, so they came up with this collection of Creation-inspired wishful thinking, to show how there could be, if someone tried hard enough, maybe, a theory that could challenge Evolution.
Once you get past the intellectual dishonesty, wingnut think tanks are pretty awesome.
The following is long and off topic. Feel free to skip.
@spinachdip: With Family Feud you get kisses…. come on everybody needs kisses.
Seems to me the best way to show evolution is right is to be able to compare it to ID, Why are you afraid to teach ID along side of it? Why are you afraid to compare?
My problem is not evolution is taught but how it is taught. You say “Science is the exact opposite – it’s self doubting. See, science, er, evolves through skeptics testing theories, disproving facts, making qualifiers and refining them.” and that is true, I could not agree more.
Now go pick up a middle or high school science text book, what you find is not the self doubting of science but a fairy tale of facts. There is no doubt, no qualifiers, no refining. 1 + 1 = 2, reptiles + evolution = birds, Neanderthal + evolution = human.
We are a home schooling family and you would be surprised how much crap there is in text books. Thank God for the History Channel, and the internet. Something new pops up we can incorporate it right into the study. We are also able to look at the different theories, compare them, discuss them and sometimes improve them. You would be surprised how fantastic it is to watch a child think, and create their own theories and be able to support why they think the way they do.
I believe in God and creation, but I don’t swallow ID or evolution hook line and sinker. Does evolution exist, of course it is simple genetics. Undesirable traits will die off over time and desirable traits will survive. Can a reptile change to avian over time? No I don’t think so and I can argue the point with science. Can a mammal change into a mammal that would be considered a different species over time? I think so and could argue that point with science.
Sorry for the extra long response, I just hate junk science, bad statistics and theory being taught as hard fact.
@RvLeshrac: Ding Ding Ding… we have a winner!
I would love to have a hybrid, not the current ones but something along the lines of the Chevy Volt. (I drive too far and at too high a speed for the current hybrids to fit my needs). The thing is I can’t afford a hybrid that won’t save me that much in gas. To be economically viable for me, I would have to save at least the difference in gas and what I would pay for a regular car and a hybrid. We are not there yet. I would also like to take my home off-grid, but once again the technology to do so is cost prohibitive.
BTW unfortunately science is a popularity contest. it shouldn’t be but it is. Take a look at history and you will see when an unpopular theory but correct theory is put forth, it will takes a long time and more evidence than a popular theory needs before it is accepted. Sad but true. A good example would be that some ulcers are caused by a bacterium. See how long it took and what had to happen before that was accepted.
@Mike the Dog: The better question is, what would they drive if they were alive today?
Efficiency of a vehicle is subjective. My SUV gets 17mpg with four people in it on the Freeway. My v8 sports car gets 25mpg with 1-2 people in it on the freeway. Which is more efficent? Probably the SUV.
I don’t care for the War in the mideast, but we are already paying the tax for it. I believe that the Saudi’s are the real culprits behind it all. They forget that it is not their oil, they just happen to be living on top of it. We only tolerate them. You are welcome to disagree to this if you like.
It also ties into our tight relationship with Israel. It could be reasonable to believe that we keep most of the mideast from attacking Israel from our continued import of oil & presence in that area of the world.
I find that most people talking about the environment always talk out of both sides of their mouth. They seem to have answers for everyone, but they exclude themselves out of the equation. Al Gore is a prime example.
It’s really great that we can have differing opinions on the environment, etc.
@goller321:
@goller321: You clearly missed my point all together.
The personal automobile is what made the USA as great as it is today. If there was any one thing that promoted the expansion and economic freedom of the nation it was the automobile and freeways built to drive them on.
Perhaps youd like to return to horse and buggy. Maybe you’d like to have your milk and bread delivered a day late at 10x the cost?
I’m not talking about destroying the country, in your way, you are, by suggesting we drive a dagger in the heart of our economy even further. Youre concerned about ‘protecting’ this great land from “selfish” folks like me, but whats the use if theres nothing left to protect? Whats the use if everyone who lives here is forced to socialistically ‘conserve’ and only consume a narrow range of ‘socially approved’ goods.
I for one, enjoy my standard of living, as I’m sure the rest of us bloggers do as well.
The World War veterans I know would spit at what you said. They fought for liberty, against socialistic, communistic ideas such as these. There are FAR greater threats to the nation than carbon dioxide, such as poverty, illiteracy, economic depression and more.
CAFE is a waste of time, money, resources, and breath, its %100 political and 0% reality. If you want a 35mpg car, you already have the option. For those who require something else, they have their options. Accept that there are others who choose a different lifestyle other than yours.
I just thought I’d add that I’m certain that I recycle more tonnage than any given person who has posted here, so dont accuse me of being and environmental enemy.
If CAFE castrates my 16mpg, large engined SUV, itll make my source of income that much harder to do.
Not that youd care.
@trollkiller: “Why are you afraid to teach ID along side of it? Why are you afraid to compare?”
I’m no more afraid of teaching ID alongside evolution any more than I’m afraid of teaching lolcatism alongside the Romance languages. Except lolcatism is a pidgin, so it’s actually a primitive form of language, which is more than can be said for ID’s relationship to science.
As I mentioned above, even the folks at the Discovery Institute concede that ID doesn’t have any content. Imagine if you will, an empty box. Now, imagine a salesman telling you, “See this box here? Wouldn’t it be nice if there was something in this box that challenged evolution? And even if it didn’t actually disprove evolution, it at least presented a competing theory, created some sort of controversy? Is that something you’d be interested in?” That’s what ID is, an empty box.
It doesn’t matter that you don’t buy it hook line and sinker (what’s to buy?). The fact that you’re even considering this not-even-an-attempt-at-an-theory is a problem.
There are real controversies in science, with actual competing theories. ID is nothing more than politically motivated obfuscation.
Wow. This comment board went all to batshit-crazy-capitalist-anti-communist-patriotic-no-hitler-fight-the-nazis-war-veteran-gaz-guzzling-patriotic-hamburger-suburban-boston-tea-party-magna-carta-bill-of-rights-I-can-do-what-I-want-happiness-is-a-warm-gun.
Um. I’m never coming back here again.
and @danio3834: everything you just wrote is pretty much everything that’s wrong with the way people today do things. I mean, if I had to summarize it in 500 words, that would actually be IT.