So What You're Saying Is Bank Of America Is Basically Powerless To Stop Credit Card Fraud?
"Got a charge on my credit card from "Member Services" for $19.23. This is a card I use for 3 specific bills, and I pay them off the day after the charge shows. I know it's coming so this stood out.
I called the bank to find out more, and they pointed out this has been happening every 3 months, on the same day, starting in February. I asked for more info on the merchant - All they could give me was "Florida" and an 800#. They said to call them and find out what's going on and then call the bank back if everything doesn't go well. So I call the number.
"Thank you for calling Home's Club - Formerly eClub"
Who what huh? 3 for customer service. "Hi, who are you and why are you charging my credit card?""
Apparently they're a company that offers a warranty package on my Dish Network equipment but the Customer Service rep pointed out on the phone that I get a FREE warranty package called dish home protection package straight from DISH network so i look it up in my bill, and sure enough I do.There's a complaint on RipOffReport describing a marketing company offering a similar "Home's Club Insurance" for DISH network that also was a huge hassle with erroneous charges that they resisted returning to customers. Sounds like a sleazy operation. You might want to contact DISH and see what they have to say as well.So I ask, obviously, 'Why are you charging me for this if I get it for free?'
'Well, we cover your equipment in the case of fire, flood, acts of god, etc.'
This is something my homeowners covers, why the hell would I pay for their plan? I tell them I've never signed up for this (which I haven't) and to refund this month's and all 3 previous month's charges ( 19.23 x 4 = 76.92). They will only do this months and put my account into 'review' for the previous months.
'How long will that take?' I ask.
'I've seen them come back within 72 hours' she says.
'So you'll call me in 72 hours with a resolution'
'Oh no sir, you have to call us. Please wait 72 hours and then check on your claim. We've canceled your service. Goodbye'
So i call the bank back, not only will they not refund the fraud charges from the past but they won't even contact me, i just have to harass them to see if they got around to it? This is where shit gets good.
I talk to a low level CSR first. He tells me that since they're checking into it, the bank can do nothing. Oh and by the way, the Feb and May charges - too old - can't do anything about that. He says in 30 days if I don't hear back I can dispute the august charge (and November if it isn't reversed). I'm actually OK with this and understand it's on my shoulders to check more often for fraud charges.
So then i say, 'in the meantime, please cancel my card and issue me a new number so they can't try to continue to charge me'.
He tells me the old number will be linked and any merchant that charges me with authorization for a service contract with me will get billed onto the new card.
'WHAT?!' I exclaim.
So I get pissed at this point, and describe a 'hypothetical' situation (which happens to be exactly what's going on now, and he knows this) about how a fraud company could say they had my authorization and continue to charge me. This makes him angry. Then I ask him how they would charge me when I took my accounts to another bank. This makes him angrier. So after he's done raising his voice, I ask for a manager.
She tells me basically the same thing, only this time, a new nugget of information: Your previously closed accounts can be re-opened and charged by service companies that say they have your authorization to charge that card for services.
I.e. I can take my BofA accounts and credit cards to Wells Fargo, and 3 months later, BofA will reopen my closed credit cards and hand me a bill if they keep charging me.
So, let's recap: I can - request a new number because of fraud, report my card lost or stolen, cancel my card entirely, and change banks.
And fraudulent charges will still be my responsibility. On closed credit cards.
So much for credit cards being safer than debit cards - no type of card is safe.
Thanks,-Jimmy
We're pretty sure the Bank of America's rep excuse about the charge being too old to reverse is false.
And a new account will be linked to the old and charges can still be passed on? What the hell? Closing your account is supposed to be the number one way to stop fraudulent transactions. So Bank of America is telling us that we can continue to be defrauded forever as long as the company keeps saying we gave them an authorization? So Bank of America is basically powerless to stop credit card fraud?
Apparently, yes, and not just credit card fraud. In May, a Chicago Tribune reporter and Bank of America customer was a victim of old fashioned check washing fraud. The perp stole an envelope containing a payment the reporter had made for his student loans, and changed it to make himself the payee. The reporter closed the account, got a new one, placed a fraud alert, and filed a police report. The thief was still able to cash the check because Bank of America linked the old account to the new.
Try calling back again. This time, don't get testy. The moment you lose your cool is the moment you lose.
There's also these escalation numbers:
Executive Customer Relations: 704-386-5687
Corporate Headquarters: 704-386-5972 / 704-386-5681
Operator: 800-900-9000 (press 0 twice)
And writing the CEO:
Mr. Kenneth D. Lewis
100 N. Tryon Street.
Mail Code NC-1-007-18-01
Charlotte, NC 28255
American Express is much better about doing chargebacks and finding in favor of the customer. Consider switching.
RELATED: Closed Your Account Because Of Fraud? Bank Of America Helpfully Links Your New Account
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Comments:
You know, my wife and I recently had fraud cases (one each) involving our Bank of America cards, and the issues were dealt with promptly and politely. I've been a BoA cardholder for over 10 years. Sure, they raked me over the coals on interest when I was in my early 20s and didn't pay a bill for four months (that's right!); but now all my delinquencies have been cleared from my credit report, and I have super-awesome credit score.
I'm just saying, they're not all bad.
I canceled my chards with Chase yesterday for the same reason. They told me that any automatic debit that hits the card (even after its been closed) will hit the account even though the cards is closed.
I canceled both cards, but they told me it wouldn't matter - It would still be on me to look out for activity on a closed/canceled account. Seems extremely fishy to me, but apparently Chase isn't the only one that way - seems BofA operates the same way.
You should check the federal trade commission web site. There are laws that would make BoA liable, but you need to follow the procedure. I am currently involved in a similar situation with citiCards. Talk about poor customer service. citiCards customer service is nothing short of a joke.
Chargebacks! Chargebacks!
So happy to see, in the first 2 posts:
1. The consumer is at fault here.
2. BofA is 'not so bad.'
So if we just read comments, and not stories per se, we would come to the following conclusions:
1. Consumers are total idiots (well most of them) who are WACKO to expect any kind of 'customer service' from any company.
2. Comcast is the best f@#!ing company in the world.
3. People who post comments are f@#!ing geniuses.
Back to our story now...
This is obviously a bad branch or just bad (lazy) representatives who can't be bothered to help since obviously the customer is not #1 at BofA (or any bank for that matter as we have learned by overdraft fees and other fun fees that banks get to charge).
@dawime: Even better, would this re-open a closed account for the bank and let them charge you the 'balance below minimum' charges as well?
Never volunteer any more information than you have to to your credit card company in a situation like this. Don't tell them you've tried to deal with the company or anything unless they ask you. Just tell them that you have never heard of them and that the charges are fraudulent. When I've had fraudulent charges in the past, I just call the credit card company immediately rather than even bothering with the people making the charge. It seems they're more likely to side with you if you do that. Only call the company yourself if the credit card company refuses your request first.
If what the article is stating is true, this means we could have old accounts reopened at any time even 10 years later.
Suppose you close the account(paid bal off in full) then 5 years later someone charges your account. Also, lets say you no longer live at the same address. This means you would have to remember to update your address every time we moved with any closed accounts we EVER had or risk finding out of the fraud months or years later when applying for a loan or checking your credit report.
This is not a reasonable thing to be expected to do.
Report the card as lost, it is unlikely they'll link them together. If they do, you're not responsible because you reported the card as lost. Period, end of story. Anything you hear differently is incorrect.
As far as "Home's Club" is concerned, write to BofA disputing all of the charges and be certain to ask for a copy of the contract that you signed for service as well as copies of signed credit card receipts. They'll of course, have neither, which puts this transaction into the realm of a telephone order. At that point, your dispute goes into overdrive.
BofA will probably refund up to four months. And since you're going to be writing other letters in which to get your money (remember, you reported your card lost, so BofA will botch the chargeback credit), you can open up other disputes on items older than four months. However, be prepared to eat those as you're outside the window in which to dispute them.
However, you should write to your state's Attorney General telling them of this situation and provide copies to "Home's Club". They may just give you a refund for items outside the dispute period just to make you shut-up.
Report BoA for a Reg E. violation.
I had something similar happen with my BofA checking account (debit card?). I had been paying for OnStar for a couple years with my Amex card. When the card expired, I got a notice from OnStar that they couldn't bill the card and that my service was going to be canceled. Fine I thought, they are going to phase out my vehicle anyway, and I've only used the damn thing twice in the last 2 years.
I had a BofA account with a few hundred bucks in it. I kept it for when I travel (I sometimes work on the road) as there are branches almost everywhere. One day, after I thought my OnStar had canceled, I get an overdraft notice from BofA. I check my statement online. There is a debit to OnStar that they paid that caused my account to be overdrawn. WTF!!! I start going through back statements, and sure enough it's been happening for several months. Since about the time my previous Amex card expired. I call up BofA and pitch a fit, but they stick to their guns about it being an authorized charge and refuse to do anything, including reversing the overdraft charge. I call up OnStar to cancel and pitch another fit. They are aghast that I could accuse them of doing something underhanded like this APPEARS to be. They assure me that I provided them with the account information. I know I am going to get nowhere fast with this and stick to simply canceling the OnStar account.
Then I closed the BofA account. Bastards!
And a new account will be linked to the old and charges can still be passed on? What the hell? Closing your account is supposed to be the number one way to stop fraudulent transactions. So Bank of America is telling us that we can continue to be defrauded forever as long as the company keeps saying we gave them an authorization? So Bank of America is basically powerless to stop credit card fraud? That doesn't sound right.
That's exactly how it was several years ago when I was at MBNA. Basically, some of the charges don't get much, if any, scrutiny based on the SIC code (iirc) or the amount.
The only thing that would shut a card down completely was a temporary code used to force a person to call in if we thought the card was stolen...I think. Most of those were cleared w/in 24 hours, so I'm not sure if a contrct charge could get through.
I am a lawyer. I used to do a lot of discrimination cases, for plaintiffs, defendants and insurance companies (who frequently pay for the defense and settlement of employment claims).
She doesn't have much of a case from a legal point of view.
Unless she had an employment contract, she can be fired for any reason (or no reason at all) EXCEPT if the reason is discrimination on the basis of being in a protected class (age race, sex)
She might have something if she can show that Taco Bell in her area favors younger managers, but showing that kind of preference is notoriously difficult.
Taco Bell, on the other hand, has a great defense.
From the article:
"Also at issue was Shilson's reluctance to vary her schedule in order to close the restaurant a couple of times a month. The Edina Taco Bell stays open until 3 a.m. on Friday and Saturday nights, and Shilson says she was told before taking the job that she wouldn't have to close the place. But this summer, she was ordered to change her shifts. She declined."
Declined to change shifts? That will very seriously undermine any age discrimination claim.
If you live in a state with a Democratic Attorney General or one elected by popular vote, write him or her and email and carbon copy branch and regional managers and all the executive email addresses you can find. Key Bank tried to pull some shit with me and that got it taken care of real quick.
Bank of America sucks for many reasons. Many complaints on the Internet. Contact the FDIC and file a complaint so their files keep getting fatter with B O A complaints from consumers.
Bank of America really made me want to close my account just last week for a similar situation, and this story only made my desire to close it stronger. I gave my BoA credit card at a restaurant one night to start a tab. We then paid it in cash, after which I was given back my credit card and identification. A few days later, a charge appears on my online statement from the restaurant for a random amount of $68 (that's not even what my bill had been). So I called to complain and BoA says unless I have a receipt that PROVES I paid in cash, they can't do anything about it. I don't understand why I can't dispute a charge that I DID NOT MAKE. They don't have a signed slip from me authorizing this charge. It's someone ELSE'S bill that they put on MY CARD. And I've been told by several people at BoA that there's nothing the can do about it.
I'd like to know what companies the "3 specific bills' are from.
@Sudonum: that's why you have to read your bills every month to be sure that they are following your instructions. sucks to put it on you since you already requested that the charges stop, but you can't trust these people. plus, you really should be reading your bills every month anyways.
I called B of A once to ask how long I had to dispute a charge. They told me it was 60 days but they're "pretty flexible" on that. Apparently not flexible enough. Luckily for me, I check my cards at least once per day (online) and if I notice anything weird I will investigate.
The only subscription that I have that is preauthorized is my Consumer reports online.
I hope I don't have these problems.
According to the Clark Howard website, once you give anyone access to an account they have full access. It is the Biggest threat from direct deposit. If your employer who you have granted direct deposit wants, they can put a hold on all your money. And your screwed. Pay your bills online, sure. Just have the bank send the check (electronic or paper) on your demand, only. Set up your own scheduled repeating payments, and use a credit union.
You let the gym /utilites/ subscription services withdraw your monthy charges automatically, they can take all the money they want. Good luck getting it back.
Not sure on the legality of the BoFA situation. But I did find it curious how this guy notes that "This is a card I use for 3 specific bills, and I pay them off the day after the charge shows. I know it's coming so this stood out." So on a card like this, where he knows what's going on and this stood out, it took him, what three-four months to get on top of it with the bank. Obviously there is a screw here coming from the company. But there needs to be a degree of defensive money management. You've got to watch those statements for this kind of crap and hit and hit it hard as soon as you can -- not three months later. That time is only going to compound the difficulty in getting anything back. It's unlikely what the BoFA rep said was a fact. Some checking will likely prove this, as it flies (as noted) right in the face of consumer protection of fraud. If instance is reported to police and merchant, fraudulent charges should not be the consumer's responsibility. We all know that -- doubtful that BoFA doesn't, though they may drag feet about it. But, that should shift all the blame from the consumer for not staying on top of unknown charges on the bill. And saying things like "I pay them off the after the charge shows" but then letting three months pass suggests there's more going on here. Another thing, the company says they'd like 72 hours to resolve this and the first thing he does is call the bank back. Anyone who's deal with fraudulent charges knows, you've got to acknowledge to the bank that you made a good faith attempt to resolve. Didn't the company agree to refund in 72 hours? So why wasn't there a 72-hour (or a bit more) time period allowed to pass before hitting up the bank again. I'm no fan of BoFA (hate 'em in fact) but that's not that's at issue here.
@CaffeinatedSquint: So to the OP: You say you pay it off every month, or right away when it comes up and you only use it for three bills...so...how did you not notice for three months?
How is this relevant? The OP complained that BofA had no way to stop future fraud. Why are you trying to make a straw man out of this solid argument?
Similar thing happened to me, only I didn't catch it right away. I got a few months' refund, but not the entire thing. Since I didn't notice the charge, I fought a little bit but in no way did I feel "entitled" to get my money back since I didn't notice in the first place. I wasn't vigilant, lesson learned.
If you think it's OK for a corporation to steal your money as long as you don't notice it right away, then congratulations! Your "I'm A Corporate Bitch" button is in the mail. I hope you'll wear it with as much pride as you display it around these forums.
@noquarter: That's not the whole of it here. There is some shared responsibility here. If you leave your car unlocked and someone steals something from inside it, surely the theif is wrong, but is there not some responsiblity on your part for not locking that door? Here, he is getting screwed, but he's got to stay on top of these things. That's really the consumer lesson: stay on top of it and don't let it go until you get satisfaction. The real screw is that the longer and uglier these things get, the more likely a consumer is to give up. That's why it's such a bloody chain to get anything done and why it's such a service to get the Exec Email addresses so you can just cut to the chase. They will wear you out on this stuff if you let them. So, as good defensive consumers, we've got to acknowledge we have some responsibility when these things happen. Sure, we should win and likely we are in the right competely, but when we let it drag on and on before we address it, we are really compounding the problem, making it harder for us to resolve. To equate a suggestion that a defensive posture with regard to one's finance is a good thing surely does not equal being a corporate bitch.
@noquarter: My God, could you be more of a jerk? The OP didn't notice the charges, even though he only uses the card for three bills, so he's not at fault? He doesn't notice, so it has to be some other guy's fault? I'm not saying B0A shouldn't refund his money, but it's NOT like it was the first time he was charged. If it had been the first time, banks always refund money. But he hadn't noticed it for three whole months, and while he should fight to get it back, but ultimately if you don't, you need to learn a lesson and move on. There is responsibility here. He wasn't looking at his account, they kept on billing. They shouldn't have charged him, but he didn't notice they were until three months in.
@Yogambo: thanks. I tried a good while to get all of my money refunded but with the way they were acting, I decided that I needed to close the account and change my number.
@Buran: Ditto.
FORMALIZE the dispute in writing to the bank, BUT also write (certified) to that Florida company that you REVOKE any authorizations previous, now, and hence forth that may be in place and DISPUTE their charges as well.
Disputing is not the same as revokating, especially if there was some hazy agreement in the original purchase that was overlooked.
My girlfriend once had $900 dollars mysteriously show up in her BOfA account. When she called to ask, BOfA wouldn't take the money out of her account, since they had no idea where it came from or how it got there. They also told her that if SHE were to take it out of the account or spend any of it, they would hold her fully responsible for paying it back. They ALSO would not let her close the account, since it would require taking those $900 out of the account somehow.
She lived with this account with an untouchable $900 balance for 4 months, until BOfA finally "finalized their investigation" (gave up) and took the money out of her account. At that time they still did not know where the money came from. She closed her account immediately after that.
The Comcast of the banking world?
...by the way, I have a BofA card myself, but I also monitor my accounts daily. That "ounce of prevention" thing....
Stuff like this is why I download all my CC transactions into Quicken daily and review them. Anything unusual stands out and I deal with it immediately.
They tried this "linked account" BS with me too -- I called and yelled, and also faxed a written demand to not link the old account to the new one. Problem gone.
@NoWin: Yeah, I just added a comment (before I saw your response) that says that I wrote them a nastygram (polite, but nasty) telling them to stop. It worked.
Now why can't this be the default?
I believe BofA can't link to any accounts if you have none with them. I'd make this happen, they deserve it.
Far be it for me to defend BofA, the Worst Bank On The Planet (TM), about anything, but OMG, does nobody look at their credit card statement anymore? I have no sympathy for people who wake up months later and wonder about some mysterious recurring charge. Check it out the first time it shows up or shut up! Once you pay the bill without objection, you lose any claim to dispute something later.
The world is crawling with people eager to put a charge onto any account they can, legit or otherwise. Why does anyone EVER believe the total is correct without checking the items!? It takes 5 minutes once a month, geez.
Here's an idea. Next time you go out to eat, toss your wallet to your waiter and say "take enough to cover the bill and a little something for yourself and give me the wallet back when you're done." No pesky receipts to keep up with that way!
Wait wait wait. My closed MBNA account from college was recently transferred (still closed) to BofA. So do I need to monitor an account which has been closed for 3 years in case they decide to reopen it? Seriously weird.
@Yogambo: Perhaps you didn't read the part of the post where he says, "I'm actually OK with this and understand it's on my shoulders to check more often for fraud charges."
But that's OK, go ahead and bash him for it anyway if it makes you feel superior.
I worked as an associate at a Bank of America call center and can verify that there's only a certain window of time in which you can make disputes. As someone else stated, it's 60 days. Once that time has passed, you can still file a dispute (though you'll often have to hassle the associate into doing it), but it falls into "good faith." In other words, the merchant no longer has to respond, and there's a good chance you'll never receive credit for the charge, unless they have a high level of integrity.
Also, anytime you speak to someone about canceling a recurring charge on your account, always get a confirmation number from them. It can help.
To the individual saying to claim that you haven't dealt with the merchant charging: not sure about other places, but BoA has a policy where, if a phone number is listed, you must speak to the merchant before a charge can be disputed. During the dispute process the associate must fill in information regarding attempts to contact the merchant, and, if the answer is none, the system automatically fails the dispute. VISA regulations keep BoA from blocking any charges from an account, so the cardholder is forced to take things up with merchants on her or his own, to a certain point.
Speaking from experience with BoA on many other things, though, my advice is to stay away. You wouldn't believe some of the things they do to their customers.
Everyone:
Thanks for the comments. This is the honest to god truth - this is exactly how the conversation happened. This wasn't a branch - this was the CC customer service number they listed in online banking.
As said previously, it doesn't matter what the other bills are. I prefer some recurring small bills to go into a credit card. Free points, miles, etc.
As I said in the letter - I understand that some charges are within a 'statute of limitations' - if you will - and I didn't catch them soon enough. This is a commentary on how you can never escape old credit card numbers.
This is definitely going up the chain.
@Vicky: This is exactly what it sounds like.
@Yogambo: As for not noticing, I finally got off of using the credit card for "regular purchases" like gas and groceries and got back in the black about 2 months ago - this means previous to this I had many more charges that this on a regular basis. On top of the fact that I said in the letter this happened every 3 months - so yes, it took me 3-4 months to notice (it actually took me since Feb '07).
@ReccaSquirrel: Reg E. violation? Link?
@rjhiggins: I think people scan instead of read. I think they don't have a lot of time after pouring over their credit card statements. :)
@Vicky: How did you find out that your "closed" account was moved? Are you assuming that is the case because of mergers or did you get updated information from BOA?
Oh and another thing I forgot to include in the letter: The manager told me that I had to have a confirmation number or name of a person at the company for my cancellation. If I have this proof then after 30 days if they charge me again the bank can go after then for charge after cancellation and their merchant account which charges them money.
I told her that I got no such number - and does she really think that a fraud company is going to give me something to track that by so they can't continue to charge me?
This is like the best scam ever.
@NoWin: @iamme99: Any credit card that makes it necessary to do this should not be used. What's the point of the convenience? Guess you must have plenty of spare time in your life to do this. My time is more important to me though.
@johnva: Correct, tell them the charge is fraudulent, make them deal with it. Never heard of them. The moment he volunteered to check it out was a mistake. If they want their money from you, they will do the work to prove if its valid.
BofA can re-open any card they want. You don't have to pay it and if they try and ruin your credit, you win in court. Its like when they tell me that I should cut up credit cards sent to me that I did not ask for. Yea right, I don't even open the envelope.
@wring: Aren't we all? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more)...
Oh, you said new...
Actually, thinking about it more, does any bank actually close any account ever? I've been trying to get a [redacted] Visa card account that I haven't used for five years closed, and [redacted] hasn't closed it yet after several requests to do so.
That gives me a pain right in my [redacted].
How can I make Shift-F12 my [redacted] key for Consumerist?
Can't you just tell them that you lost your wallet on the street and to cancel any charges from that card since they would probably be fradulent?
Oh my, I now know why it's "Home's Club formerly known as eClub"
Google this:
We're now #5 - but it's all bad.
Try it with:
Not nearly as many results.
@xl22k: As I said in the letter - no - even lost cards can have charges passed through. They go through more scrutiny - according to the rep I talked to - but if they look legit they get passed on.
Similar thing happened to me, only I didn't catch it right away. I got a few months' refund, but not the entire thing. Since I didn't notice the charge, I fought a little bit but in no way did I feel "entitled" to get my money back since I didn't notice in the first place. I wasn't vigilant, lesson learned.
So to the OP: You say you pay it off every month, or right away when it comes up and you only use it for three bills...so...how did you not notice for three months?