That $3000 Was Fraud? Chase Doesn't Care, It Only Wants Money

Brandon writes:“In January 2007, I was traveling in Mexico and was mugged, having my wallet and passport stolen. By the time I got back to the hotel and began calling my credit card companies to cancel, the criminal had charged close to $3,000 on my CHASE Circuit City Visa card. I explained to CHASE that the charges were fraud, and they sent me a fraudulent charge affidavit to complete and have notarized. As I couldn’t take care of this until I returned from my trip, and had more important things like a passport to worry about, I waited a few weeks before completing the paperwork and during those weeks received about 2 calls a day from CHASE urging me to send the documents.”

I completed it and sent it certified mail along with a copy of the police report, the certified mail was delivered and signed for but the calls continued, apparently they never received it. About a month later when I finally had time, I made copies and resent everything to CHASE, finally the calls stopped.

I took this to mean that the documents had been received and that everything was taken care of, hardly the case.

I canceled the card as I never use it, so I no longer had access to the online payment system and could not check up on the balance, and so I let it go figuring everything had finally gone right.

About 3 months later I begin getting the same 2-3 calls a day from CHASE, this time demanding that I pay the $3,000 plus over $100.00 in interest and that my account is very past due.. The messages say to reach Norm at so-and-so extension as he is handling my case. I call, get voicemail, leave a message and never hear back about 3 times.

The calls keep coming and I finally give up, not having time to deal with the situation I begin hanging up every time I see the number on my caller ID.

Shortly after that, my account was referred to CCS collection agency for breach of contract, I was contacted by CCS agent Terry Orr who was actually very nice, explained the whole situation, listened to what I had to say, and told me to fax his office the same documents that I had mailed to CHASE months prior. After receiving the documents, I received a very friendly follow-up call saying that they had determined that the balance was fraud and would refer the case back to CHASE and they had no control over what chase would do with that ruling.

It has now been about two weeks and the 2-3x a day calls have resumed from CHASE again, what can I do in this situation, this is bordering on harassment as far as I’m concerned, haven’t a met a decent enough burden of proof that the charges were fraud.

Thank You,

Brendon L.

That just makes no sense. You called and reported the fraud the day of, and yet they’re still trying to collect. Under federal law, you have no responsibility for unauthorized charges after reporting loss or theft of a credit card. That you waited a few weeks to send in the papers doesn’t matter. Worst case scenario, your maximum liability is $50.

Have you sent them a “drop-dead” letter? Or a letter of dispute? Include the information in the preceding paragraph in your letter.

You could also try kicking it up to Chase executive customer service:

1-888-622-7547 – extension 4350
or
847-488-6833, or 888-622-7547 x 6833 – Jessica Pozehl

(Photo: Getty)

Comments

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  1. s_silvers says:

    “I waited a few weeks before completing the paperwork” You had no time in half of a month to complete the paperwork? How much paperwork was it?

  2. Falconfire says:

    Actually its completely legal, and I had to deal with this issue recently myself (though I took care of it)

    The problem is without that affidavit, its STILL not considered fraud and if its not sent in ASAP then your agreeing that the charges they note on there where in fact legitimate charges to your card. Your right Ben in that it IS a federal law, but there is ALSO a timetable and the person in question did not follow it at all.

    Now just to blow this guy out of the water here, while I do agree there where more important things to take care of over your card first… the forum in question for me was 4 pages long and required you to check off a few boxes next to each purchase that is suspect and sign your name.

    It took me 7 minutes to fill out check off and Fax to the number listed. Hell they even gave you a pre-metered envelope so you didnt even need a stamp.

  3. Falconfire says:

    Just to add, this was a Chase card I was talking about in my case. Some redneck in Virginia tried to charge 100 dollars to it at a gas station. Still dont know how he got my number since I do not use the card online, and the card never left my wallet, but thats a different story.

  4. s_silvers says:

    I hit submit too soon. Dont take that as I’m laying fault with you. Was the paperwork they gave you inordinately large or complex is what I’m getting at. I had something similar happen to a Citi card I had and the paperwork was only 3 questions, but the ball couldn’t didnt get rolling until I had filled it out.

  5. namenomore says:

    @Falconfire: I work for one of those big nasty banks and we deal with money laundering / fraud stuff all the time. We just had something come across today where people were buying credit card numbers from “e-gold.com” and using those. So even those hicks in Virginia can make good on identity theft thanks to the magic of anonymous interneting…

  6. MeOhMy says:

    Wanted a clarification…
    It took a you a few weeks to get back to the US…or you got back to the US and then waited an additional few weeks before first ?

    I am ridiculously guilty of procrastinating on things like this, especially because I hate hate hate dealing with customer service types.

    But when $3000 is at stake, I would be keeping on top of these people!

  7. Andr0 says:

    I don’t know how much I can sympathise here. Apparently, Chase promptly supplied all the documentation that needed to be filled. Chase also made sure that their customer is damn well informed about necessity of filing out and submitting that information ASAP. The customer decided that, first, he couldn’t find time in a couple of weeks to fill out and mail the documents. Then when he finally got around to it, he failed to follow up for THREE MONTHS. Finally, when problem re-surfaces, his response is to call a couple of times and then start ignoring the phone calls?

    We’re talking about $3000 here… anyone who can act so carelessly as to border with arrogance deserves to have their ass bitten. “It’s fraud so it’s bank’s problem, not mine” is just not a valid excuse – it’s not even close to a valid excuse.

    I will also have to disagree with a portion of Ben’s commentary:

    That you waited a few weeks to send in the papers doesn’t matter. Worst case scenario, your maximum liability is $50.

    I don’t see how that could be true: if it was, it’d be a perfect loophole. “Hello, bank? Yes, my credit card was stolen. I’ll provide proof of theft in, uh, a month after holiday shopping spree?”

    No. Just no. I will wholeheartedly agree that Chase is not handling the issue with anything resembling customer friendliness or concern for customer’s financial wellbeing – but then again, customer himself didn’t display that much concern for his financial wellbeing either.

  8. extracrispy says:

    I find myself having little sympathy for this guy as he did everything wrong… waiting a “few” weeks to send in an affidavit, not following-up to confirm that the situation was being handled, canceling the account so he no longer has access to his records, leaving messages with an unresponsive person instead of asking for someone else to handle his case, and perhaps worst of all, hanging up on them. Seriously?

    A $3,000 fraudulent charge is not to be taken lightly, and it just seems like he didn’t try very hard.

  9. Klink says:

    Still calling 2-3 times a day? Threaten to sue for harassment. CCS seems to be taking care of it, so you don’t really need to worry what they say.

  10. JustaConsumer says:

    I would not do business with Chase or Circuit City.

  11. erratapage says:

    No… you have to report the card as stolen, and as soon as you make the report, you are off the hook. The filing of an affidavit of fraud is NOT the event that starts the clock rolling. If it were, we’d be on the hook for an awful lot of fraud while the credit card company got the forms to us.

    A personal story… my Mother’s credit card number was stolen from someone who used it to open numerous AOL accounts. She worked for months to get the company to figure out how to help her, and then she died the day she was supposed to get the fraud affidavit back to the company (before signing it, of course).

    I dealt with Chase on the issue. Then I dealt with the collection agency. Then, I dealt with the collection lawyers. It was only when I dealt with the lawyers that I got the matter taken care of.

  12. Rando says:

    Actually he has to get the documents to chase asap. Reporting a card lost or stolen only deactivates the stolen card, which is what happened when he called. In order to proceed with fraud the proper paper work needs to be filled out, which he neglected. You need to be on the ball with these things.

  13. Rando says:

    @extracrispy: Exactly how I feel.

  14. FatLynn says:

    Note that it says the $3000 had been charged BEFORE he reported it as stolen.

    We don’t know how long he waited before reporting it. I believe you have a 24-hour window, but we don’t know if he met that deadline.

  15. GreatCaesarsGhost says:

    People talk about that $50 limit so much that folks start to think of it as a golden shield. “I know the charge is fraud, so I don’t have to pay.” It’s a little more complicated than that, as our poor Brandon has found out. Instead of blaming the bank, we should be using this as a learning opportunity.

  16. erratapage says:

    I need to clarify my post. You do have to cooperate with the credit card company to get them the information (a/k/a fraud affidavit). I was reacting to the whole trigger event concept, not the obligation to actually file an affidavit.

    What may seem like an unreasonable delay to some people here doesn’t seem particularly unreasonable to me, however (as long as a few weeks to the writer doesn’t translate to a few months).

    Of course, we don’t know what the real problem is here, because Chase’s callback number is never manned.

  17. pinkbunnyslippers says:

    @erratapage: part of “making the report” is signing affadavits that attest to the fraud. So no, you’re not “off the hook” as soon as you call in and say “hey – my card’s stolen. K, thanks bye.”

    This guy waited way too long to sign paperwork that the bank expediently sent to his attention, then began ignoring phone calls because he “didn’t have time to deal with the situation.”.

  18. pinkbunnyslippers says:

    @erratapage: Whoops – sorry just saw your last post. :)

  19. Falconfire says:

    @erratapage: I never had any problem with the callback number. They straightened everything out with my fraud report within a week, including issuing the new card, investigating the fraud, sending the affidavit, and erasing the charge.

  20. enoughwealth says:

    I don’t know the relevant US laws and haven’t got a copy of the relevant Chase card agreement, but if it’s anything like my credit cards then you are liable for a max of $50 charged to a stolen card done AFTER you report the card stolen. And the paperwork required is to finalise write-off of any charges done AFTER you reported the card stolen (card deactivation isn’t immediate when you phone in to report a stolen card. For example, some EFTPOS machines can work offline on occasion and send transaction data in batches when a connection is available.)

    In any case, the $3000 charge was made BEFORE the card was reported stolen. Unless the police report provided some evidence that that particular charge was not done by the cardholder, I think he’d still be liable for that charge. Being slack about the paperwork and following up just made things harder for himself.

    I think Chase is perfectly reasonable to insist on the paperwork and timeframes being enforced. They’d have to be concerned about cardholder fraud, and $3000 is too much money to just write off without any paperwork.

  21. specialed5000 says:

    @Falconfire:
    I’m not usually one to point out spelling or grammar errors. I regularly make them myself. However, it kind of made my head hurt trying to figure out that you meant you’re instead of your, were instead of where, and form instead of forum. At least the random capitalization of Fax was amusing.

  22. emilymarion333 says:

    I had a chase card for a few years – I had a new card sent to me which I authorized over the phone and went to use it that night at dinner and it was declined.

    When I called chase they told me after the card was activated someone called in and tried to transfer funds from a phone number chase had flagged – that if any calls came from that phone number and tried to access the account balance then they block the card and send you a new number. This happened 3 times before I just closed to account.

    Chase made it sound like it was my fault for canceling and not keeping my cc number private!

  23. kc2idf says:

    Follow the link to the Clark Howard page…. You will find the following statement (emphasis added):

    Business Week discovered that Capital One, Bank of America, Chase and Discover are ignoring these bankruptcy laws — by accident or on purpose — and illegally selling debts to collection agencies so they can go after you.

  24. FatLynn says:

    @emilymarion333: The best part is what this does to your credit score!

  25. emjsea says:

    Seriously. Is this guy so busy that he couldn’t be bothered to do anything in a timely manner? Or be bothered to keep track of what was going on or anything. Sorry, but this is mostly his fault, just a little bit of douchebaggery from Chase.

  26. Pylon83 says:

    @kc2idf:
    First off, how is that quote even reasonably relevant to the story at hand? It has to do with bankruptcy, not fraud.

    Second, I don’t see how this is even close to Chase’s fault. The guy was too “busy” to be bothered with turning in the required paperwork in even close to a reasonable amount of time. At some point, Chase has to say “Sorry” and move on to other things. I don’t understand why the Consumerist is standing up for this guy, it’s clear he had little interest in resolving the matter in a timely fashion. Perhaps next time he’ll get his priorities in line and deal with things a bit more quickly, especially those concerning $3k.

  27. extracrispy says:

    @kc2idf: That is not even remotely relevant to this post. It’s about bankruptcy. This post is about fraudulent activity.

  28. krom says:

    Just as speaking directly with the CCS rep got you results on their end, you likely won’t get traction from Chase until you get a human — a real human, not a scripted phone droid — on the line. You can tell them to review the account records, the fact that you were already collected on but the collection was stopped when you proved the fraud to them.

    There ought to be a law against re-collection. I had an issue with my college when I owed tuition for my last semester. Eventually the collection agency offered me a settlement of 80 cents on the dollar. I eagerly took the offer and paid the total settlement amount. But then, a few months later, I started getting calls from a new collection agency — for the difference of the original amount minus the settlement. I immediately called them back and told them the story and they took care of it.

    Bottom line is, find a way to get a (real, independently thinking) human on the phone at Chase.

  29. balthisar says:

    Errr…. I go to Mexico all the time. Where the heck did they mug you????

  30. B9433 says:

    Just To clarify, I am Brendon, and I had to wait until I got back into the country to fill out the paperwork. I did it in a timely manner as far as I am concerned, about 3 days after I got back from my trip.

    Chase then said they never received the documents, that were sent certified mail. I had receipt in my hand that they were delivered and signed for.

    I’m sorry I lagged in resending them, but the first time they were sent and I had proof they were received should have sufficed.

  31. rioja951 - Why, oh why must I be assigned to the vehicle maintenance when my specialty is demolitions? says:

    Even if this guy has a litte of my simpathy, he should have followed up with the bank ASAP. I work in mexico and know that filing a report can be an extreme hassle, but once you have the report number and you report it to the bank it stops being your problem (in general terms).

    The main problem is tring to get your documents from the embassy or consulate. Thank god my office is about five block away from the consulate general in Guadalajara.

  32. B9433 says:

    Just to clarify, I had to wait until I returned from Mexico to file the paperwork and feel I did that in a timely manner. I sent the paperwork certified mail and had return receipt to prove they had received the documents. Then they claimed they lost it.

    Yes, I lagged on resending the paperwork, but the fact remains that I did originally send it about 3 days after I got back from my trip.

    In addition, I did not ignore the calls at first, I sope with the reps and explained to them the situation. Then when my account got kicked up to fraud, Norm the fraud manager on my case, never returned calls.

    Also, I reported the Card stolen about 4 hours after the mugging happened.

  33. jblake1 says:

    You have obligations as a card holder under your agreement with your bank. If you are going to claim fraud you must live up to those obligations. I would take less than an hour (probably much less) to complete the fraud affidavit and send it back. No fault on Chase here. Shame on the consumer.

  34. MeOhMy says:

    @balthisar: You can get mugged anywhere.

  35. bonzombiekitty says:

    Another story of someone just ignoring the calls from the bank. They’re calling you for a reason. If you know these calls are about thousands of dollars of supposed debt, DON’T IGNORE THE CALLS! Sure, it may be a pain to deal with them, but ignoring the calls are just going to make things worse.

  36. aka Cat says:

    Am I the only one who’s impressed that the collection agency bounced the debt back to Chase with no argument?

    From everything I hear about those outfits, I would have expected them to ignore his explanation and documents and just keep calling. Or sell it to another collection agency, of course.

  37. tasselhoff76 says:

    I could be wrong, but according to the FTC, you are not liable for fraudulent charges on your credit card, in excess of $50. That’s not $50 after you report the card stolen. That’s $50 period, per card.

    [www.ftc.gov]
    [www.ftc.gov]

    And according to the Lectric Law library -

    As a general rule, a cardholder is not liable for unauthorized use.
    There is no liability for unauthorized use of a credit card, except
    where the card is an “accepted credit card” then liability is not in
    excess of $50.00 and $50.00 is due only when and if: (1) the issuer
    provided the cardholder with adequate notice of the limited liability;
    (2) the issuer provided the cardholder with a description of means by
    which the issuer may be notified of the loss or theft of the activated
    card; (3) unauthorized use occurred before the card issuer had been
    notified that the cardholder no longer possessed the card or template;
    and (4) the issuer provided a method whereby the user of such card can
    be identified as a person authorized to use the charge template.

    [www.lectlaw.com]

  38. babaki says:

    @jblake1: wrong. yes he maybe should have sent in ASAP but he stated, after he sent in the paperwork that it was still sent to a collections agency, and they are still hitting him up for the debt. this is wrong.

  39. johnva says:

    As far as I can tell, unless we aren’t getting the whole story here, he is perfectly within the time limits to report fraud if he sent it within a “few weeks”. The Fair Credit Billing Act in federal law limits your liability to $50 if you report the fraud in writing within 60 days of receiving the first account statement containing the fraudulent transaction. From the description he gives, it sounds like he is well within that time limit. I’m sure Chase would have liked for him to mail it back right away, but he loses no legal rights by waiting a while as long as it’s within the 60 days. The article writeup is right if the information we’re being given is correct. His liability should be limited to $50. If Chase doesn’t follow the proper procedures, sue. You’re entitled to statutory damages under the FCBA.

  40. bonzombiekitty says:

    @babaki: But the problem is that in the article, it’s never mentioned that he verified that Chase got the paperwork. The article says the calls from Chase stopped, and he assumed that mean the paperwork was received (in time). But what may have happened is that they gave up on him sending in the paper work and assumed they weren’t going to keep bugging him over it. After a certain period of time, it’s not worth the effort to keep calling him for it.

    He should have sent in the paper work, waited a couple days, and then verified that everything was OK.

  41. johnva says:

    @bonzombiekitty: He says he sent it certified mail along with a copy of the police report within the time limit. That means he DID have verification that they received it. The certified mail confirmation of delivery to Chase is all the legal proof he needs. Anything more than that is Chase’s problem if they lost track of it. Even his second mailing of the documents appears to be within the 60 days of his receipt of the statement, though we can’t be sure of that from the description. Remember, the clock on the time limit you have under the law does NOT start ticking when you report the fraud by phone to Chase. It doesn’t start until you actually get the statement with the fraudulent transaction on it.

  42. PracticalMagic says:

    @Falcon…..You actually timed how long it took to fill out your paperwork? Why?

  43. Buran says:

    @bonzombiekitty: “I completed it and sent it certified mail along with a copy of the police report, the certified mail was delivered and signed for”

  44. Buran says:

    @bonzombiekitty: Looks like he did try to call but never got through to anyone. He specifically said that he left multiple messages for the person handling his case, with no response.

    Oh, and he sent the paperwork certified mail and it was signed for, so he knows they got it.

    Geez, even when the victim does everything right they still get skewered here.

  45. Buran says:

    @jblake1: Uh, he did (1) call and repeatedly try to contact his case handler, and (2) sent the paperwork, by certified mail, and knows it was signed for.

  46. Buran says:

    @FatLynn: A coworker of mine had her purse stolen and reported it the same day as soon as she was sure (I helped her look for it, and we didn’t take long at all). She still didn’t beat the thieves to buying gas on her card.

    But since she had not purchased it, she didn’t have to pay.

    Banks KNOW that thieves are too damn fast these days. Any bank that sticks you with scam charges even if they’re posted first will rapidly lose business, so they won’t do that.

  47. Buran says:

    @Falconfire: This was in Mexico, and he also sent in the police report. It takes a bit of time to get that. Nevertheless, they got it and signed for it, so they have the paperwork in hand.

    Yet, on BlameTheVictimist, it’s STILL his fault…

  48. noquarter says:

    Step 1: A guy gets mugged and has his credit card stolen, reports it stolen almost immediately, fills out and returns the necessary paperwork within a reasonable time, sends it certified mail so that he gets confirmation delivery, receives confirmation delivery.

    Step 2: Chase loses the paperwork and completely bungles the case afterwards by not answering when he calls and not having a human call him back when he leaves a message.

    Consumerist readers’ conclusion: The guy’s at fault for being more concerned with how he was going to get home than with holding Chase’s hand through this process. What are you people who think this way doing on a consumer’s rights website? Are you all getting paid by Chase to come in here and post these opinions? You’re being more strict on the guy than the US law is, and the US law is not known to favor people over corporations.

    Please go away.

  49. jeffjohnvol says:

    I have 3 credit cards, one of them (platinum card) I reported stolen and cancelled it. If anyone mugs me or takes the wallet and tries to use the card at a store, it will show up as stolen and (hopefully) they’d get the guy. Slim chance of it happening, but who knows.

  50. DallasDMD says:

    @jeffjohnvol: Yeah, those brave cashiers have a set of handcuffs and carry guns just waiting to catch your future mugger.

  51. Pylon83 says:

    @Buran:
    While I feel like the certified mail does carry some weight, they notified him that it had been lost/misplaced/never received by the proper office. After the notified him of that, he was again under an obligation to re-submit the paperwork. When he chose to drag his feet in re-submitting, he shot himself in the foot. It’s not like Chase said, on the first phone call, we didn’t get your paperwork, your screwed. They gave him the opportunity to correct the situation, and when he did not protest, he basically assented to their request, placing the burden back on himself. Perhaps it would have been a better move to simply say “I already sent it, certified mail, and I have the receipt. I’m not sending it again”. But, he didn’t. He agreed to send it again, and thereby was obligated to re-submit it in a timely manner.

    Further, I also feel like there is more to this story than we are getting. An exact timeline would be nice, particularly if we are expected to make an informed, objective decision as to whether Chase is really in the wrong here. I’d like to see one from the day the card got lost to the second submission of the paperwork.

  52. johnva says:

    @Pylon83: Certified mail doesn’t just carry “some weight”; it’s all the weight he needs, legally, to prove that he sent it by a certain date. He is under NO obligation to do anything else after that point in order to protect his rights. Otherwise credit card companies could just claim to “lose” every notice of dispute you sent them and never respond to any fraud complaints. It’s Chase’s problem after that to deal with the fraud complaint. If they still try to collect, he’s completely in his rights to sue them to get his credit report fixed and to collect damages.

    Now you’re right, that’s assuming that the timeline we’ve been given is accurate. If his story is true, he’s totally in the clear legally. I have to assume it’s true given that that is all we have to go by. And it’s completely believable to me that Chase would screw up like this. Many of these companies are completely incompetent in following their own policies and the law.

  53. ro424 says:

    If adequate notice was provided (as the FTC quote above seems to indicate is all that is necessary), i don’t understand why he would have to sign an affidavit? That doesn’t make any sense at all – the burden of proof has to be on Chase to prove or provide evidence to the contrary of the fraud claim. Chase has sent a similar request to me as well after a fraudulent transaction was caught (and immediately refunded) by a merchant (NOT Chase). I notified Chase immediately of the fraudulent transaction and ultimately there was a charge and immediate refund to my card. Why would I (or anyone for that matter) sign an affidavit without having a lawyer representing me review it? I don’t think that’s a reasonable request to make unless Chase can present evidence to contradict the fraud. Seems like law school 101 here, and I’m not even a lawyer! What am i missing here? Why are people saying this guy is at fault? I’ll definitely follow up with an update if Chase threatens me over not signing the affidavit they’ve sent me – it’s a ridiculous request by Chase and I’m simply not required to do it to not be held liable for the fraudulent charges (agreed though i should call them and tell them i’m not sending it rather than just ignore it).

  54. Pylon83 says:

    @johnva:
    I agree that it carries a lot of weight, however he assumed the obligation of re-sending it when he did not dispute the fact that they had not received it. Had he refused to go further after they “lost” it, he would be within his rights to do as you suggested. However, he did not. He chose to accept Chase’s version, and agreed to re-send the information, essentially under the guise that it had never been sent before. Basically, when he agreed, he started all over again. I think Chase would have a very valid defense in saying he assumed the responsibility to re-submit the information, he did not do so, and now he’s out of luck.

  55. B9433 says:

    Just to clarify, I had to wait until I returned from Mexico to file the paperwork and feel I did that in a timely manner. I sent the paperwork certified mail and had return receipt to prove they had received the documents. Then they claimed they lost it.

    Yes, I lagged on resending the paperwork, but the fact remains that I did originally send it about 3 days after I got back from my trip certified mail.

    In addition, I did not ignore the calls at first, I spoke with the reps and explained to them the situation. Then when my account got kicked up to fraud, Norm the fraud manager on my case, never returned calls.

    Also, I reported the Card stolen about 4 hours after the mugging happened.

  56. jeffjohnvol says:

    @DallasDMD: More than likely it would be one of my kids, LOL. Like I said, I doubt they would ever catch someone. But maybe they’ll try the card and think they all have been reported stolen.

  57. B9433 says:

    Time line:

    -January 6th Mugged about 11:45pm
    -Jan. 7th Police report filed with help of embassy 2am
    -Jan. 7th 4am called and began reporting credit cards stolen
    -Approx Jan. 16th Returned home, doc. were waiting
    -Jan. 19th submitted docs. certified mail
    -Approx Jan 28th, after follow up calls Chase never received my docs.

    -Approx Feb. 20th, resent copies of the docs.
    -Feb. 20 — May 1st, no contact by chase.
    -Early May get a call from CCS about the collection
    -Send in all paperwork to CCS mid May
    -CCS dismisses the case Early June.
    -July, Aug., september no contact
    -October Case calls to explain that they have determine that fraud did not occur, they cannot find all the paper work. I explain that I dealt with this situation with CCS and they have sided with me. Norm tells me he will call me back and never does.
    -Current – I am receiving 2-3 automated calls a day from CHASE and refuse to pick up.

  58. Buran says:

    @Pylon83: Where does it say in your contract that you have to re-submit? That’s right, it doesn’t. It just says that you must submit. He did. It’s just being nice to try to help them by sending it again. It was sent once. Legally, he can say “I sent it, and here is the proof” and leave it at that, and since it was filed (and obviously copied to keep a record of it as proof, as it was sent again to the collection agency to get them to shut up) that’s enough.

  59. Buran says:

    @Brendon: Sue for harassment if they are robocalling you after this was cleared up.

  60. Pylon83 says:

    @Buran:
    It doesn’t say it in the contract, but when he did not protest when they first lost them, he assumed the responsibility to re-send them. Once he says “Ok, I’ll re-send them”, he is on the hook to do it. He can’t back out at that point, or after the fact.

  61. johnva says:

    @Buran: Yep, and moreover it doesn’t matter what the contract says. Federal law says that submitting it in writing within 60 days is enough. BOTH his submissions of the documents appear to be within that time limit. The contract with the credit card company can’t override federal law (the FCBA). So it’s really irrelevant what Chase’s policies are. He’s met the requirements of the FCBA, so he’s covered under the law. If they don’t follow the procedures, he can sue them for statutory damages and to get the debt removed from his credit report.

  62. johnva says:

    @Pylon83: And he did, within the 60 days. So that objection is moot.

  63. Pylon83 says:

    @johnva:
    I would be curious to know whether he sent the second set certified mail as well. There is no mention of it. If he didn’t, and they say they were never received, then he did not submit them within 60 days. I imagine that part of the story may have been intentionally left out. He was informed by them within the 60 days that they had not been received, he agreed, and assumed the responsibility to re-submit. If he can’t prove he did that, he’s still screwed.

  64. balthisar says:

    I wasn’t kidding. I really am wondering where you were mugged.

  65. johnva says:

    @Pylon83:

    Even if your legal theory were true (which I don’t think it is), Chase would have to be able to PROVE that he “assumed the responsibility to re-submit”. Because if they don’t have that proof, then the law is on his side since he has proof that they received it the first time he sent it. The only proof they would have of this is a phone conversation if they recorded it, which is weak evidence in court (especially with comparison to his certified mail affidavit).

    @Brendon: $3000 (plus the damages you could get for them not following the procedures in the law) is enough that I would be looking into getting a lawyer and suing if I were you. I think you have a strong case based on what you have said here. You also might want to check out this link, which shows how you can file an FTC complaint against Chase for their handling of the matter. It’s also got some good information on the applicable laws. [www.ftc.gov]

  66. noquarter says:

    @Pylon83: He sent the papers twice, at least once by certified mail. No further effort is necessary.

    Accepting Chase’s version of events – that they received and lost the papers – does not put any additional onus on him. It is not his legal responsibility to make sure Chase processes his paperwork properly. And his agreeing to help Chase rectify their mistakes be resending the papers does not make their mistakes his fault.

  67. LionelEHutz says:

    It just figures that the first comment was someone blaming the victim.

  68. Falconfire says:

    @LionelEHutz: well truth be told based on the information given in the mail, he was right.

    Now that its been expanded on though, clearly Chase is in the wrong, but from the original indication, the guy never turned in his paperwork on time.

    When I did it, they gave be a clearly defined date 2 1/2 weeks in advance of when I called about the fraud. I got the papers the next day.

  69. johnva says:

    @Falconfire:
    Not to nitpick, but how was he right based on the original mail? It doesn’t matter what Chase says about a “deadline” of 2.5 weeks or whatever. The law overrides their policy, and the law says you have 60 days. So even just based on the original info Chase was in the wrong, IMO. As long as you get the certified mail in before then, you are in the right, period.

  70. ddwibb says:

    Many of the above comments criticizing the victim are way out of line.

    Perhaps employees of Chase? Or invasion of collection agents?

  71. Pylon83 says:

    @ddwibb:
    Or perhaps people who think critically and don’t take things on their face as true, just because it was posted on the internet?

  72. Buran says:

    @CatMoran: Nope, I was surprised too.

  73. Buran says:

    @Pylon83: Nah, it’s just the usual BS that goes flying around here. Post a story? SOMEONE will blame you, no matter whether or not you did everything right, even if it was advice that this very site’s commenters throw out as advice.

  74. Pylon83 says:

    @Buran:
    And that’s part of what makes this site worth reading. It would just be another slanted media outlet if there weren’t dissenters amongst the ranks. Clearly some of the hard core “pro-consumer” readers dislike it when someone like myself questions a story, or suggests that the company is not ALWAYS wrong, but the opposing comments put the slanted reporting by the editors of this site into a slightly better perspective.

  75. @Buran: I think it’s Buran’s fault.

  76. B9433 says:

    @balthisar: I was in Rosorito on vacation with with my girlfriend, and this happened on our way out of the hotel for the night. No weapon or anything was used but as it was some Mexican guy bigger than me demanding my wallet, I was not about to protest, esp. in a county that is known for police corruption.

  77. noquarter says:

    @Pylon83: In Pylon83-world, all credit card fraud paperwork must be submitted in less than two weeks. In the United States, one has 60 days. Based on this, you condemned the OP and made such claims as:
    “At some point, Chase has to say “Sorry” and move on to other things.” (As if two weeks is way too long for Chase’s short attention span, and despite US law to the contrary)

    “I don’t understand why the Consumerist is standing up for this guy, it’s clear he had little interest in resolving the matter in a timely fashion.” (As if he didn’t have other things to deal with after getting mugged in a foreign country: how to get home, getting a new passport, calling his other credit card companies and filling out their forms, the Policia)

    “Perhaps next time he’ll get his priorities in line and deal with things a bit more quickly” (Have you ever been mugged in a foreign country? Was credit card paperwork your first priority afterwards?)

    This is not a case of a noble dissenter bravely questioning the status quo. This is a case of several assholes blaming a crime victim because they imagine they would have rushed home and mailed their credit card paperwork faster than he did.

  78. Pylon83 says:

    @noquarter:
    There was not enough of a timeline given in the original complaint to establish whether or not it was done within 60 days. He uses vague phrases like “about a month or so” and “when I got around to it”, and “I waited a few weeks”. Had he given a bit more of a precise timeline in the beginning, there would have been much less to attack.

  79. extracrispy says:

    ddwibb said: Many of the above comments criticizing the victim are way out of line.

    Puh-leeze, Mary! Out of line would be using vulgar language or making disparaging, personal remarks.

    There seems to be a notion around here that any commenter who asks for further details about a situation or dares to suggest that a consumer could have done something differently is “blaming the victim.” That’s as asinine as saying that people who oppose the war do not support the troops.

    The fact is that though Chase is clearly wrong in this matter, the guy would have gotten better results had he followed many of the tips that are routinely posted on Consumerist.

  80. FLConsumer says:

    If he sent the documents via certified mail, then he should provide the Chase representatives with the tracking # and tell them to buzz off, they’ve received the documents, it’s up to them to figure out what happened. That is assuming he actually sent it via certified mail and retained the paperwork, which he should have regarding any legal issue.

  81. Falconfire says:

    @johnva: a few weeks could EASILY mean 2 months. Based on the original email he stated that he got to a a month AFTER he got back, which could have been a few days, but from the tone of the email seemed much longer than that. THATS why people assumed he screwed up. The fact is, that it took a month for him to straighten himself out to get a handle on his cards is ridiculous, in 3 days he should have been able to get everything taken care of. Like I said Chase sent me the paperwork to file the NEXT day, and I faxed them the day after that. They corrected my card within a week counting the time between my call and when they shipped out the card to me… making me seriously take the originator of this email as suspect as I have worked with them on a fraud case 2 months ago and have nothing but praise.

  82. johnva says:

    @Falconfire: Well, I’ll admit it was a little bit ambiguously worded, so there is room to disagree. My assumption from the beginning was that “a few weeks” was probably less than 60 days (60 days from Chase mailing a statement, not 60 days from him reporting it). The other stuff in the timeline, like him sending the second copy a month later, is completely irrelevant assuming he actually sent the first one by certified mail and got confirmation of its delivery.

    I’ve dealt with fraud on a Chase card in the past, too. While I didn’t have anything like this happen, I was somewhat less than pleased with their service during the incident. They rather rudely questioned me when I said that it fraud and posted by an Internet site I had never heard of before. I had to be pretty forceful with them to get them to accept the possibility that it was fraud and mail me out an affidavit to sign. They did end up reversing it, but not before basically accusing me of lying to them. We never really know if a poster is telling the truth or not, so I’m just going by what they’ve told us.

  83. Buran says:

    @structuralpoke: And *I* think it’s Bush’s fault.

    (I’m kidding.)